IMPREST SUPPLY BILL.

Otago Witness, Issue 3772, 29 June 1926, Page 26

IMPREST SUPPLY BILL.

DEBATE IN LOWER HOUSE. LABOUR AMENDMENT DEFEATED. By Governor-General’s message the Imprest Supply Bill No. 1 was introduced on Tuesday, and the Prime Minister, claiming urgency, the Standing Orders ■were suspended accordingly. Mr E. P. Lee was appointed Chairman of Committee for the day. The Hon. W. D. Stewart (Minister of Finance) stated that the Bill appropriated £2,701,900 for ordinary Governmental purposes. There was an increase in the item for main highways as compared with last year. At one time it was proposed to include in the Bill a clause to facilitate local bodies’ action in dealing with unemployment, but on further consideration it was decided to bring in after imprest had been dealt with a special Local Bodies Unemployment Borrowing Bill. There was an increase in the item for main highways as compared with last year. At one time it was proposed to include in the Bill a clause to facilitate local bodies’ action in dealing with unemployment, but on further consideration it was decided to bring in nfter imprest had been dealt with a special Local Bodies Uricmployment Borrowing Bill. Mr Holland: Then there is no provision In regard to unemployment in this Bill? He added that he would like to know what .was the amount provided for immigration, and what the Government proposed to do Jn regard to unemployment. Mr Stewart said there were various funds apart from the present Bill, and that immigration was not in the Imprest Bill. The bon. gentleman would hnve an opportunity of discussing those matters when the House was considering the Bill, which .was to follow Imprest. Mr T. K. Side? complained that tba Bouse had not been sufficiently informed la regard to certain financial questions, more particularly in regard to loan teens-

actions. It was understood that a 5$ per cent, loan was to have been raised in this country, but according to the newspapers they had gone out of the country for the 51 per cent. loan. In regard to the money borrowed in Australia, he would like to know for what purpose it was obtained, and also the cost in regard to the last four loans. He would like to have further information than had been supplied. Then in reference to taxation they had been told that the Government intended to reduce taxation, but apparently it was not going to do so. He jilso would like to know whether the Government intended in any way to alter the incidence of taxation. There had been a report by a committee and another by a commission on that matter, but none of the recommendations had been oarred out. Perhaps, however, Mr Coates did not hold himself responsible for the misdeeds of the Reform Party. Mr Coates (smiling) There were none. Mr Bidev said that in regard to company taxation there had been a promise to place the burden more equitably. The reports of the commission and the committee had been treated as so much waste paper. As to immigration ho would like to know if the Minister had kept a record of those who had gone into the oounfry, and what had happened to them. The Hon. Mr Nosworthy: Every soul of them? Mr Sidey said they had not pH gone on the land. There was an actual decrease in the number of those employed on the forms in the country. Those brought into the country had accentuated the unemployment to-day. Mr H. E. Holland (Leader of the Opposition) spoke at length upon the Question of unemployment, and said that tne obvious remedy was work for the vast number of those without jobs. He stressed the fact that sustenance was only a palliative which would relieve the position temporarily. .The Government, through tho Minister in charge of the Bill, had .indicated that {he question of unemployment would he dealt with, but nothing specifio in this direction had been mentioned. He accordingly moved as an amendment i ’That the House record its

dissatisfaction at the inadequate financial provision made by the Government for meeting the unemployment problem, especially in view of tne fact that the problem had been greatly accentuated by tho expenditure of public money in carrying out an. indiscriminate immigration policy which had brought thousands of immigrants to New Zealand without reasonable guarantees of employment or housing.” There had been a discrepancy in the figures given of those employed in relief public works, Mr Holland continued, but even assuming that the figures of the Prime Minister had been correct, reports from the various centres showed that in Auckland there were over 1400 out of work, in Wellington 370, in Napier over 100, in Gisborne 50, in Palmerston North 170, with 800 dependents, in Dunedin about 300, in Invercargill 121, and in Christchurch about 500. It was safe to assume that for every man registered tli^re was another unemployed who had not registered, and the whole position was, in the view of Mr Holland, evidence that there was something amiss with the political administration of the country when a man was not given the right to work. This principle had ever been the chief aim of the Labour Party, but it should not be a party question at all. If there w ere a large number of unemployed, then it was an economic loss to the Dominion. Work was waiting to be done in various parts of New Zealand, and lie suggested that in his district alone 200 men could be profitably employed on the Westport-Inangahua railway line—(laughter from the Government benches) —while on the Glenhope-Inangahua section another 200 men could well be absorbed. Mr Holland protested against the statements of the Prime Minister and the Minister of Lands to the effect that the Labour Party had raised the question of unemployment for political purposes, and refuted the suggestion which had been made that the men were not willing to work. He declared that many who desired to migrate to this country were deceived at the High Commissioner’s Office in England, and led to believe that they could get work and homes by merely coming out here. They were also told

that of they were not nominated by anyone in New Zealand they could get out through the Salvation Army. Some of them were asked to sign an agreement to the effect that they would remain in the Dominion for five years, and that they would remain at a particular industry for 12 months. This was accepted to mean that" they were guaranteed work in that particular industry for 12 months, and it was not till they came to these shores that disillusionment came to them. They then found themselves on a bad employment market and bound by an agreement to stay here for five years. Bad as was the position of the ordinary citizen of New Zealand, that of the newcomer was worse. Xnousands were out of work. The Prime Minister: Caif you quote cases where thousands are out of work? Mr H. E. Holland: I have quoted cases here many times, and the figures I have given amount to thousands. The statistician’s figures show that there are 20,000 houses short in New Zealand to-day. Why, in Wellington, I suggest that members themselves arc paying 30s for a single room, so how much worse is it for the migrant who has to take a room? In some cases whole families have to live in a single room. Mr Holland said he accepted the payment of immigrants by the Government as foreshadowing a general reduction ef wages in New Zealand. If tho ordinary man were worth an award rate, why, then, should not the immigrant be entitled to command the same? The amendment was seconded by Mr M. J. Savage, who dealt with the unemployment problem as it affected Auckland. Dealing with the broad aspect of the question, he said that one of the remedies for unemployment was the settlement of the waste lands of the country, but everyone was finding what the English Commission found, that the Government had no policy in this connection. If the Government had moved at all it had been extremely slow in its movement, ployed in Auckland to-day than when the Government first pretended to deal with the problem. He wanted the Government to tell the House , why this was so, „

The Hon. G. J. Anderson said it was perhaps natural that the Labour Party should expect the Government to find work for everyone in the country. That was a plank of its socialistic platform, but that was going too far. As it was, the Public Works Department now employed 10,000 people, and altogether about 50,000 people were employed by the State. That he considered sufficient to be safe, for he did not believe in the policy of the State employing everyone in the country. Unemployment caused by commercial depression. There was an economic cause for that depression with which the Government had nothing to do, but the Government was, nevertheless, doing a great deal to tide over the trouble. The official figures of the number unemployed did not bear out the Labour Party’s figures. Work was being found for many in the back districts, but they found that numbers would not go into the back districts. Their names were then struck off the register and were put on again next week, and so the numbers looked larger than they actually were. If the men on relief works were paid full rates there would be no incentive to look for other employment, and in no country was this done, not even in Queensland. The men employed in seasonable occupations should not be ranked with the unemployed, and had it not been for political agitation they would not have been so enrolled, and when these were eliminated he found the numbers of genuine unemployed would be greatly reduced. The percentage of unemployed here was less tiian in almost any other country in the world. Mr W. A. Veitch said it was an easy matter for the Minister to discuss unemployment, but it was not so easy for ifie man with a family, no job and a landlord sitting on his doorstep. He denied that tho unemployed agitation was a political agitation. Tt was a real agitation and a real problem. In his district alone the number of unemployed was over 200, of as fine a stamp of men as there was in New Zealand. He agreed that local bodies should take their share of the responsibility in finding work, but local bodies had been hampered by past legislation, and for one he would welcome the Government’s proposal to relieve local bodies from their present disability. He appealed to the Government to give every encouragement to secondary industries, as there was a definite need for the Government to do something to meet the unemployment problem. Mr Sullivan said the Opposition was not asking the Government to provide employment for everyone in the Dor .inion, as had been suggested, but only to provide employment for the few thousands out of employment at the present time. They had it on the authority of the member for Auckland West that the number of unemployed in Auckland was 1400. The Minister said the number was only 800. It was a strange thing, but it was a fact, that the department could not attract all the unemployed into its offices to register. The papers that had arrived from Christchurch that morning had shown that the position was getting worse in Christchurch, and that the demand for rations was exceeding the supply. Mr J. Horn (Wakatipu) urged as a remedy for unemployment the development of the secondary industries. What was necessary, he said, was more complete and modern machinery to enable the factories to turn out more and a greater variety of work. He urged the Government to adopt a poliev which would encourage manufacturing in New Zealand. Mr 11. T. Armstrong (Christchurch East) said that the unemployment in the cities and the towns of the Dominion was due to the slackness of work in the country. This was a country of seasonal employment, and provision would. have to be made every year. The unemployment problem would never be solved until we solved the land problem. New Zealand could never carry the population it should carry while it remained a big sheep run. The Hon. A. D. M'Leod (Minister of Lands) said the country was _ dependent to a great extent upon its primary products, which must suffer from the market fluctuations. In view of this it was imperative that our people, not one section only, but all of our people, should exercise some degree of thrift. This spirit and practice of saving had unfortunately almost disappeared, and much of our unemployment problem was due to the fact that many of our single men who followed seasonal employment did not put away any of their wages for a bad winter, and were consequently up against it. He still said that the unemployment agitation was of a political character. It had been said that land settlement would solve the unemployment problem. Ho did not • think so, because unless men understood the business of farming waste lands they were taking a terrible risk. There was still room for subdivision in New Zealand, and at the proper moment the Government would not hesitate to put the compulsory clauses of the Act into operation, and take the land necessary for settlement. Mr G. W. Forbes said the causes of unemployment were to some extent beyond the control of every party. The prices of our primary products had fallen seriouslyT and that must be reflected in the towns. What was wanted to help the unemployed over tho crisis was to find work on a systematic tcale, and tho whole scheme of employment should bo carried out in a whole-hearted way. With regard to 'mniigration ho believed we had a duty to the Empire to help to solve its problem of the distribution of its populace. At tho same time an excessive introduction of new people must in times of depression offeefc our own labour markets. What they should do was to let the Government know what the mind of the House was and let the Government know that the House was behind it in taking • II the necessary step to cope with the difficulty. That., he thought, would serve a better nurpo*n thnn a hostile amendment. The Hon W Nosworthy defended the administration of tho Immigration Department. There was, he said, neither deception nor mismanagement. There had been a few failures among the many people brought out. and it would be strange if that were not so, but these people bad always been looked after by the Government and helped to get on their feet. The Government had nothing to regret either as to the numbers of quality of the migrants introduced, and bo for M be was concerned be wn going A

steadily with the work. Last year they brought out 10,964 migrants and all of them were placed in the way of becoming useful and valuable citizens. Mr H. G. R. Mason (Eden) condemned the Government’s immigration policy (1) Because the Minister of Lands said that newcomers should not be put upon the land, and (2) because the Minister in charge of the Industries and Commerce Department was enthusiastic about establishing and encouraging secondary industries in which migrants could be employed. If the migrants could not go into the country and could not be employed. in the towns .what was the use of bringing them into the Dominion at ali? The Labour amendment was not so much a matter of party politics as it was a case of urgent necessity. . _ ... Sir Joseph Ward said there had been unemployed in New Zealand every year since he entered Parliament, and it was impossible to avoid that problem, because men could not be employed so profitably in the winter months as in the summer months. Personally, he favoured work being given to every man legitimately out of work, but if unemployment were going to be made a question of no confidence in the Government, then that would have to be done every year for many years to come. In view of the odium which the Reform Party had in the past heaped on the Liberals because of their, advanced land policy, he was glad to be there to hear the Minister of Lands say lie would enforce the compulsory clauses of the Land Act to acquire land for settlement. He urged the Minister of Lands to reduce the value of high-priced lands, which no one could profitably occupy. We must also readjust our Customs tariff and encourage our secondary industries, as the people of Australia were doing in the Commonwealth. The Prime Minister said he desired to thank'members of local bodies and private employers for the assistance they had given in providing for unemployment. He regretted the introduction of the political element into the debate, because all the Government was concerned about was whether the men required work, and to find it for them. It was agreed some time ago that all men out of work were to be registered by the Labour Department, and these official figures showed there were 837 men unemployed in the Dominion, and many of the stories of extreme distress were often found to be without foundation. The shipping strike seriously interfered with the Government’s immigration policy, because people who should have arrived here months ago were only arriving now, but the Government had made contracts with them, and those contracts would be carried out. All it meant was that they would have to set out their programme several months ahead, and he was confident they would pull through. Some might not be pleased with what was being done, but the departments had their instructions what to do, and he believed they were doing it. He denied that the Government was responsible for misleading statements in England to migrants. On that point Sir James Allen was most careful, and proof of the excellence of the migrant coming out was the fact that less than 5 per cent, had failed to redeem their obligations to the Government. When a division on Mr Hollands amendment was taken, the voting was: For the amen dr ent .. .. 13 Against the amendment .. 53

'Replying to Mi Fraser, the PRIME MINISTER s 'd that some of the railway workshops were ing reduced and amalgamated, and where men would have to be transferred fro- one towi to another ample notice would be given, and where single men could be transferred married men would not be shifted. The Bill was then passed through all its remaining stages. PASSED BY LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. In the Legislative Council on Wednesday the Bill was passed without discussion.