SECOND READING CARRIED.

Otago Witness, Issue 3247, 7 June 1916, Page 30

SECOND READING CARRIED.

WELLINGTON, June 1. The third day's debate on the second reading of the Military Service Bill proved to be somewhat dull from the oratorical point of view until Mr Hornsby rose shortly after 4 o'clock and so.iiewhat enlivened proceedings by a slashing attack on those who hold that ignominy attached to the word "conscript." Ho held this to be a slur upon gallon! France, who was fighting nobly and heroically. Ho also had something to say about those Labour men who objected to fighting in defence of their own country. The afternoon brought forth a very important promise from the Prime Minister which will be a relief to many. The feature of the evening was a very fine snecch by tho Hon. A. T. Ngata, in which he explained why the Maori representatives refused tho exemption from the Bill which was offered by the Government. Messrs T. N. Rhodes, Jennings, Dickie, Hornsby. J. M. Dickson, Okey, H. Nosworthy, Forbes, and the Hon. A. T. Ngata spoke in support of the Bill. THE GOVERNMENT DEFENDED. The Right Hon. Mr Massoy said he had been very much interested in the speeches delivered in the debate, especially tlhose by the member for Hurunui and the member for the Eastern Maori electorate. Before members made up their minds whether the Government deserved praise or blame, he would ask them to think back to the days immediately following August 4-, 1914. Ho admitted that the Government had made mistakes —some serious, some unimportant—but ho would ask members to say whether the Administration had not been a success. The policy of the two Governments had been tho same—to see that New Zealand should do its duty in the war and to keep the country prosperous. Of course he did not claim for the Government all the credit for our prosperity, which was duo to other causes. Nobody could say, however, that New Zealand had not done its duty, or that tho country was not prosperous. PIo agreed with lion, members that the time for a organisation of our industries was fast approaching, and the Government proposed to put the census forward to October next in order to make this organisation possible. Most hon. members, said Mr Massey, had considered that the clause declaring tftat all men who married subsequent to August 4, 1914, should be classed as single men was too dra tie. With thai opinion lie- agreed, end on behalf of his colleagues he coulrl sav that the Government was prepared to havo these clauses amc-ncled to a reasonable- ex-

tent to meet such cases of hardship as might be created by the application of compulsion to men who married soon after the outbreak of the war. —(Hear, near.) Referring to conscription of Maoris, he ',ud that the Government; was prepared oveii yet to exempt Maoris from the operation of the Bill and to allow the voluntary system still to apply to the Maoris while Europe;;:- were subject to compulsion. Ho quite understood, and thoroughly appreciated, tho stand taken up by Mr Ngata and the members representing the Maori race. No Bill ever submitted to the country had ever met with such thorough preparation and consideration as this one, and a great deal of credit for the measure belonged to the Attorney-general. He anticipated no red difficulty from tho system of voluntaryism and compulsion existing side by side in the Bill. Compulsion would only apply in a district when voluntaryism failed. They wore not going to divide tho New Zealand army into volunteers and conscripts;. His honest opinion was that the Voluntaryism Amendment Bill would suffice. That was Lincoln's opinion when he introduced his measure, and it was justihed, as he believed his own opinion would be in tho future. The New Zealand Bill was more perfect than Lincoln's because it made no distinction between the man worth a million and the poor man. Under Lincoln's Bill men could commute their service for monetary payments, as 82,000 men did, while 72,000 others paid for necessities That would not bo possible here. Any man who did not answer the call, no matter who he was. would speedily be told where his place was. He could not agree with the member for Lyttelton in his assertion that it would be more difficult to apply compulsion here than in America. Mr M'Combs: You will get the men if you treat them properly. Mr Massay: That is a very poor argument. We have" 'heard it ad nauseam, and I wont reply to it. The part of the speech of the member for Lyttelton to which I most object is that where he arrogates to himself the right to speak for the workers of the country. No class has come forward more freely "than the workers, and I am quite sure they will not approve of his action. They are not mercenaries. The member for Lyttelton had invited us to believe that the Labour Conference in Wellington was unanimous in its opposition to compulsion. Now, was it not a fact that tho delegates of the Wellington Trades Union withdrew from tho conference because they would have nothing to do with the opposition to compulsion? Mr M'Combs: Absolutely incorrect. Mr Massey: I am prepared to give you the man's name. I have it from one of the men themselves. He is now in camp and will be going away shortly. Mr Massey said ho had been amazed at the declaration of the member for Wairau that there was no authority for sending an Expeditionary Force from New Zealand. As a matter of fact, the House, by motion, on August 5, 1914, agreed to steps being taken by "the Government to have in readiness an Expeditionary Force. Later on legislative powers were taken, so that full authority was given even in the year 1914.

"Wo are now entering on the last stage of the war," declared Mr Massey. Larger sacrifices than those already made might yet be necessary, but if so, he was euro that 6uoh sacrifices would be made willingly and gladly. We had to do our duty to the Empire, and we were endeavouring to do it. We also had to do our duty to the men fighting in tho trenches, and to all the 60,000 men who had donned khaki. Whatever happened, and however long the war lasted. The obligations enterej into with the Imperial Government would be carried out It was necessary for the maintenance of the honour of the army that tho undertaking should be carried out, and ho was sure that it would be carried out. —("Hear, hear.") A good deal had been said in the debate about conscription and national service. He did not quite agree that tho terms meant the same thing. It waa conscription which was proposed under the Bill, and not national service, which was the system _ in vogue in some of the European countries. In Germany and Austria every man liad to give two years' active service, in France three years, and in Russia four years. He was a supporter of national service, and he was so, not because ho loved it, but because he thought it was simply folly for Britain to go on with a voluntary army while Europe was armed to the teeth. The _Empire had done amazingly well, but if Britain had had a trained army of 2,000,000 men wo should not have had this war. The Empire had had a lesson in preparedness — that the surety for peace was to bo prepared for war. Mr Massey went on to speak of the contention of tho member for Grey that we should conscript enough money fioin the people of this country to meet the cost of the war as it went on. It was suggested that it should be taken from war profits and unimproved values. Mr Webb: Not in one year. Mr Massey: Now the lion, member is shifting his ground. Mr Massey said that if any such attempt were made to conscript the wealth of this country there would come upon the country 6iich a depression as we should not recover from for very many years. Tho policy of the Government was to raise the necessary money by borrowing, and to provide for interest and sinking fund by extra taxation. Such additional revenue as might be required for this purpose the Government hoped to raise by much the same moans as the extra revenue was raised last year —that was to say, it would not be taken from that section of the community which had difficulty in making ends meetMr Massey contradicted tho statement that the Government was not doing anything to make it easy for Crown tenants to go to the war. He stated that ho had passed through his hands very many documents concerning such cases, and invariably a proper concession was given to the tenant enlisting. He spoke also of the settlement of soldiers on the land.

Mr Wilforrl: What about Sir Rider Haggard's scheme? Mr Masscy said he was afraid the country was too Email for Sir Rider Haggard's scheme. However, he wan very cordially in sympathy with everything possible to help Sir Rider Haggard, but the first concern of tho Government must be our own men. Some members hud seemed to show anxiety lest an attempt should be made to procure a hastily arranged peace. Telegrams were beginning to come in to him, and, ho presumed, to other members -of tho Government, suggesting that wo should endeavour to arrange for peace.—(Laughter.) lio trusted that nothing of the sort would ho attempted. He trusted that we should not attempt to arrange terms of peace until wo were ablo to dictate terms and until

Germany had received what wo called in the vernacular "the knock-out blow," and until such terms could be imposed as would assure the peace of the world for many years to come. —(Aiiplause.) The Hon. D. Buddo supported the principle of the Bill, and said he had long believed in it. It was vital to the nation to prevent a German domination. The Hon. G. W. Russell said that unless some member of the former. Opposition spoke in support of this Bill it might be possibly hold that ihoy wore not in support of the measure. He regretted that Sir Joseph Ward (the Leader of the late Opposition) was absent through illness, but he had iiis authority for statins that he hoped to bo present on the third reading and declare then that the proposals of the Biil had his entire support, as they had .that of the members of the former Opposition who had joined the National Government. —(" Hear, hear.") Messrs Buick, W. H. Field, Mander, Young, R. W. Smith, and the Hon. Dr M'Nab supported the Bill. MR ALLEN IN REPLY. The Hon. J. Allen, in reply, said he feared that the members in opposition to the Bill were in opposition because they had not yet come to a full realisation of the crisis facing the country. He wished that anything he might say would induce them to abandon some of their cherished beliefs and opinions. Probably they would yet abandon them. Ho believed that the Labour men in part influenced the opinion of Labour, but if the Labour men who had gone to the front could be here to express their opinions he believed they would not share the views of the hon. members. Jt was said that the Bill proposed to conscript life, but for what purpose were they conscripting life? They were conscripting the living to save life, to save the nation, to save our flag, our freedom, and not only our freedom but the freedom of the weak nations of the world. The pressure on the married men would be removed by this Biil because it would enable them to put pressure upon the single men who ought to go. —(Hear, hear.) He denied absolutely the suggestion of Mr Hindmarsh that our men would not be needed. Were Gallipoli and Anzac a small contribution to the war? The claim of " cheap soldiers" by the member for Grey was absurd. The conscripted soldier would be treated as well as the volunteer. The pay now was higher than anywhere else in the world, and we had the most liberal pension scheme. The plea for conscription of wealth was indefinite, and could not be seriously dealt with. The cry "Conscription of Wealth" was only an excuse by those who did not want to go. Ho had been accused of pledging the country to a compelled Expeditionary Force This he denied. He had suggested that there would be no difficulty in getting men to volunteer, and his prediction had been justified, and valuable services rendered.

In the latter porbion of his speech Mr Allen referred to the actions of some members in discouraging recruiting. The soldiers' clubs were being utilised to create dissatisfaction. There wyre political appeals, and he ventured to say to the returned soldiers, "Keep clear of the politician " On the quota question, he said it was the intention of the Government to call up Division I before any others were called up, and when it was found that the men in Division I were shirking because men in Division II were volunteering, then the Government would stop recruiting in that district concerned and clear up the shirkers—(Loud "Hear, hears.") The quota was to he altered from the present arrangement. When the roils were complete they would re-assess them, and if a district had been exhausted of the men in Division I by voluntaryism, it would be left alone until Divisjon I in all otfcer districts was exhausted.- ("Hear, hears.") Referring to his figures of New Zealand's volunteers-, he said the 63,000 should be reduced by 2500, as the men of the Seventeenth had been calculated twice. The exemptions had been deliberately left to the Appeal Boards. There would be several, but perhaps in committee the House might like to provide for a higher and central Appeal Board to secure uniformity of interpretation. The idea of the Cabinet was that individual notice should be sent to men called up, in addition to a Gazette notice. Religious objectors had not been provided lor, because their treatment was being left to the Appeal Board. He could assure the Maoris that they would receive generous treatment from the Government. Finally, he claimed it as a subject for pride that New Zealand, even after despatching' the Expeditionary Force, had never abandoned her Territorial scheme, but had continued valuable training. Mr Allen concluded a vigorous speech at 1 o'clock, when a division was called for by Mr Webb. The second reading was affirmed by 40 votes to 5, the list being: Aves. —Allen, Anderson, Anstey, Buddo, Buick, Craigie, J M. Dickson, J. S. Dickson, Ell, T. A. H. Field, W. H. Field, Forbes , Frascr, Guthrie, Harris, Hemes, Hornsby, Hudson, Isitt, Mao Donald, Malcolm, Mandcr, Massey, Myers, Newman, Dr Newman, Ngata, Nosworthy, Okey, Parata, Pearce, Poland, Pomare, Poole, 11. H. Rhodes, T. W. Rhodes, Russell, Sidey, Smith, Statham, Stewart, Sykes, Talbot, Veiteh, Wilford, Wilkinson, Witty, Wright, Young. Noes.—-Hindmarsh, Walker, Webb, Payne, M'Combs. THE COMMITTEE STAGE. STONEWALL SET UP. (From Our Own CoriurcspoNDENT.) WELLINGTON, June 2. Consideration of the Military Service Bill in committee was entered nn in the Hous; this evening. OwL.g, however, to the

absence of some members who wore on their way to Uanmsr to take part in the opening of the soldiers' home there, the Prime Minister announced that he did not intend to go beyond the short title stage and that as it was agreed to. he would asl< the committee to report progress. Tin agreement had been coino to in order to permit some members who desired to mak< the trip to do so without risking the forfeiture of their opportunity to mc*o certain amendments to some of the early clause*. The announcement by the Prime Minister did not placate the talkative quartet of ! sibonr members, who from the outs .. showed a determination to talk out the measure to the limit of their opportunity four spoils of 10 minutes each. As the evening wore on the determination of the Labour members—Messrs Payne, M'Combs, Webb, and Walker—to delay the Bill became most pronounced. Their 40 minutes' allowance each curried them up till 10.40, when Mr M'Combs moved as an

amendment to the first clause —" That tho Chairman leave the chair." Upon this new ground tho stonewall proceeded, each speaker in turn urging that tho Bill should be delayed in order to give the public time to digest tho measure. Mr Payne said the Bill was going to bo j fought word by word until tho people had time to consider it and advise them of their views upon it _ The Chairman of Committees continually had to call tho sneakers back to the point , of giving reasons why he should leave the chair, but the Labour quartet kept to its ; guns, and gave every appearance of being j most determined to fight to a finish. Once or twice a quorum had to be summoned. 'i he result is, of course, inevitable, but it cannot be denied that there is even.- prospect of the committee stage of the Bill proving very lengthy. Mr M'Combs, having moved the amend- j ment, forfeited his right to speak, and this reduced tho number of stonewallers to three. Tho hopelessness of their task gradually | dawned on them, and Mr Payne announced , a capitulation at 11.35. He pretended to I de-sire an assurance from Mr Massey that nothing further than tho short title would be taken. Mr Massey had _ already announced this, and repeated his assurance, whereupon the Labour men yielded, and progress was reported at 11.40 p.m., after tho short title had been adopted. Mr Hindmarsh spoke once early in the even- | ing, and then retired. SUG G BSTE D A MENDMENT. VIEWS OF PATRIOTIC SOCIETY. TIM ARC, June 2. The South Canterbury Patriotic Society suggests that Mr Craigie, M.P., should endeavour to amend the Military Service 8.1 l j in committee to prevent the enlistment of j married men of the s-cond division till the men in the first division are exhausted by | voluntary or compulsory enlistment. After j the first division is exhausted volunteers to be> invited from the second, and deficiencies ] to be made up by ballot. The society strongly disapproves of the voluntary enlistment of married men while single men are available on economic as well as sentimental grounds. This applies in a less degree to married men able to provide for their families apart from Government assistance. It seemed illogical to make two i divisions under compulsion, and then permit volunteering from the second to delay and defeat the application of compulsion to the first division. Experience shows that men with large families will enlist, causing expense to the Government and soe'etics in the case of death or disablement bevond the ; value of the service compared with men without dependents.

CIIRISTCHUECH TRADES UNIONISTS. RESOLUTION OF OPPOSITION. CHRISTCHURCH, Juno 2. At a largely-attended meeting of trades unionists held to-night under the auspices of the Canterbury Trades and Labour Council (press representatives being excluded), the following* resolution was carried unanimously: —'"J-hat this representative meeting of trade unionists, having carefully considered the facts leading up to the framing of the Military Service Bill, resolves as follows: (1) That we repudiate the pledge given by the Massey Administration without consulting Parliament, agreeing to supply oversea forces; (2) that, taking into consideration the sentiment of Colonel Churchill that thero were 250 ; 0C0 servants attending British officers, the Empire cannot be pushed for men, and, even so, there is no indication that the voluntary system has failed to provide the number of men promised from this dominon; (3) that wo arc of opinion that the Military Service Bill is not introduced because of a shortage of men offering for military service, but to be used purely for industrial coercion, owing to the restlessness of the people, duo to the high cost of living; (4) that, in our ophtion, this measure lias been introduced to detract the mind<= of the people from the huge war profits b"ing made and com-m-rciai and other monopolists ; _ (5) that the introduction of conscription eivrs the lie direct to the repeated statement that the war is beimr waged to destroy Prussian eonsserhv'on; (6) that this meotmg of organised unionists of Christr-hruch congratulates the five members who npnosed lh n Comtmljory Military Service Bill during the second reading, and ur<rcs to continue their opposition to the end."