NATIONAL REGISTRATION.

Otago Witness, Issue 3211, 29 September 1915, Page 12

NATIONAL REGISTRATION.

PRIME MINISTER’S SPEECH. BILL NOT CONSCRIPTION. NEED FOR ORGANISATION. (Thom Odb Own Coheespondent.) WELLINGTON, September 23. Tlie debate on the National Registration Bill was commenced in the House this ■evening. The measure was fully explained by the Prime Minister, who moved the lecond reading. The House and galleries were full, and the speeches generally expressed hearty approval of the Bill. Mr Massey said the Bill on its introduction a few weeks ago had evoked a certain amount of criticism —some favourable and some unfavourable —but so far as ho could judge the great body of public opinion was very strongly in favour of it. At all events, he did not mean to apologise lor it. The Bill was a new departure, and conditions such as had never before arisen in the history of the Empire—circumstances and conditions of which we had had no previous experience—and he thought members would agree that if we were going to do justice to the occasion it was absolutely necessary that we should know what resources we had behind us in the present crisis. A little more than a year ago Lord Kitchener had said that in all probability the war would last three years. There were many who at the time disagreed with him, but who now admitted that the forecast was not very far wrong. The end was still a long way off. Wo had had many experiences during the last 12 or 14 months, and the Empire had learned a great deal, but at least w 7 o could be sure that the troops of Great Britain and Franco were quite equal—superior, he believed—to the troops of the Kaiser. Russia, it was true, had been beaten back, but many of us had confidence in the dogged perseverance and persistency of the Russians, and hoped and believed that Russia would come again and take an important part in the victory which we all believed was assured. Our other ally, Japan, had done all that was expected of her, and he was of opinion that she had done more than wo were aware of. New 7 Zealanders could not forget that Japan had sent a great ship to escort their troops to the front. Italy had entered into the contest with enthusiasm and energy, which spoke well for success, and he believed that the Italian army and navy w 7 ould bo very important factors in the victory which would come at no distant date. Our allies were in deadly earnest, and would stand together until the war came to a satisfactory conclusion.— (“Hear, hear.”) So it was with different parts of the Empire. About them w 7 e need have no anxiety. All had made up their minds that no sacrifice of blood and treasure wo:Jd be too much to pay for the integrity of the Empire and for the defeat of its enemies. It was the duty of public men to see that the very utmost w 7 as made of the country’s resources—military and industrial. No man could toll when the war would end, but wo know 7 that we were up against an enemy possessed of the greatest and most complete organisation the world had ever seen—an enemy that could only be overthrowm by an organisation superior to her own THE BRITISH FLEET.

It had to bo admitted, continued Mr Massey, that compared with Germany the British forces were sadly unprepared. An Hon. Member: Except the navy. Mr Massey said he was glad to except the navy, which had done everything it was possible for it to do. It swept the German navy off the seas, and it was a matter for congratulation that the navy was stronger in ships and men than wherr the war started. We could not but admit that in munitions of war Germany was vastly superior to Great Britain and Britain’s allies—perhaps superior to them all combined. He was glad to be able to say that the British authorities had realised their deficiencies, and were making energetic and determined efforts to make good. Every ounce of energy and effort would be required to win in this struggle for our existence as a nation. NEW. ZEALAND’S DUTY. “New Zealand is a small country,” said Mr Massey, “but our duty is clear to do everything possible to assist the United Kingdom and the other dominions of the Empire and our allies. We have every reason to bo proud of what our little dominion has done; put what wo ought to do is not to be gauged by what we have dono ; or what wo propose to do, hut by our ability and capacity. I Peliove the present system of sending reinforcements is the best system possible, and It is the system strongly approved and re-

oommonclod to us by the Imperial authorities. It is our duty to place every man in the field that wo can, being mindful always of the needs of our most important industries.” DOMINION’S ARMY 45,000.

The Minister for Defence had stated that before the end of January we should require 14,000 men, in addition to those in camp already. This meant that by the end of January, if all went well, and if they were able to raise the men —and he believed all would go well as far as this country was concerned—(“hear, hear”—and suitable men would be forthcomings—(“hear, hear”) — we should then have in camp, and counting those gone away from his country, a force of 45,000 nren. He thought that was a wonderful thing.—(Applause.) Mr Glover: How many have gone? Mr Massey: Twenty-three thousand, and probably another 7000 are ready to go. I think it is a wonderful thing for a small country like this to do. I believe the patriotism and manhood of this country will find these men. —(“Hear, hear.”) What we wanted to do—and it was part of the object of the Bill —was to be a.blc_ to send away those men without disorganizing- any more than we could possibly help the industries of this country. If wo were going to do that, then we should have a national stocktaking, or a census of capacity, as it had been called. Other countries had found it necessary to go in for that system of national registration—Britain, France, and Australia. Wo had not gone the same lengths as France, Britain, or Australia. We had asked no unnecessary questions, and we wore not asking for a census of wealth. Labour members : Why not 7

Mr Massey: Because it is not necessary to do so for our present purposes, and because we have already got the iinformation we require about the w 7 ealth of the people. Prt.icula.rs of the incomes, individually and collectively, are in the. hands of the Taxation Department. If w r e want anything more than that, I am providing for it in another small Bill—the Census and Statistics Amendment Bill. Wo have made the Bill ns simple ae possible. Wo are asking some very direct questions, but asking nothing which can bo called inquisitorial, impertinent, or unnecessary. It has been suggested that we should include the women in the National Registration Bill. Members: “Hear, hoar.” A CENSUS OF WOMEN.

Mr Massey : There is no objection to the principle, but I would put it to hon. members that it is not necessary. A Member : Yes.

Mr Massey: Well, that it is a matter of opinion. We cannot send women to the front, although I know many of them would like to go. I have had applications from more than one woman asking me to use my influence to got thorn into the Aviation Corps at Home, and they are prepared to leave their country for that purpose. The men of this country have done well, but the energy and enthusiasm of the women has been beyond all praise.—(Applause.) Nothing has been too much trouble for them since the war commenced. Mr Isitt: And their bravery in giving their sons. Mr Massey: Yes. Many a young fellow in the firing lino to-day would not have been there had not his mother pointed the way. SOME DIRECT QUESTIONS. Coming to the Bill, Mr Massey said it simply meant to ask the men some direct questions. It provided that each male between the ages of 17 and 60 years would be required by proclamation to fill in a personal schedule setting out various particulars. The organisation of the Post and Telegraph Department would be utilised for the distribution of the schedules, and in all the principal centres a house-to-house canvass would be made. The information would bo required 14 days after the issue of the proclamation. THE ATTITUDE OF LABOUR. Mr Massey said he had heard occasionally that the workers were against national registration. He did not agree with that for one moment. A Labour Member: Not they. Mr Massey quoted an article by Mr Roht. Blatchford (one of the greatest Socialists in the world), which appeared in the Clarion, in strong support of national registration, and quoted the views of various Labour loaders in Auckland favouiing the principle. He believed that the opinions ho had quoted were those of a huge majority of what were called the wage-earners of the dominion.—(Hon. members: “Hear, hear.”) Mr Massey road a circular issued by the French Minister of War authorising the return from the French Army of men formerly engaged in the work of manufacturing war materials in order to work at their trades. That circular meant business. Evidently the French Government had realised its mistake in the early days of the war, and intended to rectify it as far as possible. THE BILL EXPLAINED. The National Registration Bill was well drafted, and its clauses were perfectly clear.

Clause 2 provided for the proclamation which would be necessary to bring tho system into operation, and clause 3 referred to tho registration. Clause 4 was the substance of the Bill, and if lion, members would read that clause they had everything the Bill contained. It asked pertinent questions. but they were not by any,•means impertinent, and thev were questions which the State had a right to ask of its people. He held in ITs hand the form in which it was proposed that tho questions should be sent out, and he would quote it, because it gave a better idea of the scope of the Bill. Question 1 asked every man between tho ages of 19 and 45 years if he had volunteered for military service beyond New Zealand as a member of the Expeditionary Forces, and if. in tho event of his having done so. had he been accepted or rejected. Question 2 asked such a man whether, if he had not volunteered for such service, he was willing to become a member of tho Expeditionary Force, and, if so, in what arm of the service he desired to be. Question 3 asked such a man whether, in_ the event of his not wishing to servo with the Expeditionary Force, he was willing to serve in any civil capacity, and, if so, in what capacity; and, if ho wore not prepared to serve in any capacity, what were his reasons therefor. NOT CONSCRIPTION.

Tho Bill was not intended to give effect to the idea of con-cription or compulsory service. Ho was not a believer in compulsory service/though he did believe in compulsory training. An Hon. Member: A good thing for us if we had it.

Mr Massey said it certainly ■was a good thing also that the dominion had had a Defence Minister with sufficient foresight to provide the munitions and arms necessary before the war came along. Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”

He was a believer in comnnlsory national training, but if by any chance we were not able to find the number of men required to enable the country to do its duty he for one would not hesitate one minute—and ho did not think there were many people in the community who would hesi tato if the question were put to them —between compulsorv service and defeat —compulsory service, that was to say. for a time. He did not believe that they had waited too long with the present measure, and he thought that the dominion was doing very well. A SUPERFLUOUS CLAUSE.

There was. one other matter he wanted to explain. Ho was informed by the Regis-trar-general that clause 5, which provided that m certain cases men might bo required to submit themselves for immediate inspection, was not necessary to the Bill, and he proposed to strike that out. It had been suggested that it should he, included by some of the framers of the Bill, but he had gone into the matter very carefully, with the result that at a later stage in the passage of the Bill he would take stops to have the clause struck out. PERSUASION TO ENLIST.

In concluding, Mr Massey said tho Bill was an exceedingly important one, and he believed it was necessary. It would bring home to tons of thousands of young men what their duty was. Many of these young men were not shirkers in the ordinary sense of the word. Ho did not believe there were many shirkers in tho dominion. He had mot many young men who had not yet seen their way to enlist, but when they read the questions put to them he was sure that tons of thousands of them would express a willingness to serve the Empire, and by doing so would render conscription or compulsory service unnecessary. —(Hon. members: “Hear, hear.”) OTHER SPEAKERS.

x Mr Wilford congratulated the Govern- \ menfc on the introduction of the Bill. The card system of registration had rendered in. valuable service to Germany, and we could not hope to equal and defeat that nation unless we had a natioal stocktaking. Britain had made serious blunders for the want of a proper record of national resources. Men had gone into the firing line who ought tjO have been kept at home to make munitions, and similar mistakes had been made. The only guarantee against the repetition of these mistakes was_ to have a census of capacity. Later on, it might bo necessary to take not only a census of our men, but a census of our industrial resources. The overseas dominions would have to find , 35,000 men before the war was over, and . this dominion would have to find its quota. 1 He believed that now that the British authorities had learned what sort of stuff ' our hoys wore made of they would bo j glad to have more of them. Surely, no ; member of the. House objected to the prin- j ciplc of national registration. Let the House j unite in showing the rest of the Empire , and the world that we were solid on this j point. Personally, he was prepared to assist the purpose of the Bill on the platform, or elsewhere, with nil his heart and soul.

Mr Payne said ho endorsed the principle

of tho Bill. The only clause he objected to was that by which a man was asked if l}o was prepared to serve, and, if not, why not? Ho suggested tho striking out of tho words “if not, why not,” and so removing a grave objection to tho measure. If a man was not prepared to serve, he should not be asked why not, but he should be told that he must come. If necessary lie would willingly give his services on tho platform. Mr Isitt said the opposition to the Bill came from two sections of the community—the Peace-at-any-prioe party and tho Labour party. So far as the former were concerned he was not going to bother his head any more about them. Their position in the E resent crisis was ludicrous. He wished e could agree with the Prime Minister that no large section of the Labour party was opposed to the Bill. Ho was afraid that was not tho position, because they did not understand the measure. He was opposed to militarism, but our duty at present was not to fight militarism, but to save the Empire. Conscription was the one system that was fair and equitable to all. Under it tho rich man could not stay at home while the poor man went out to fight, and the single men had to go before tho married men. The figures published by tho Home authorities exposed the unfairness of the voluntary system. He wanted to see something put into the register about' wealth as well as men. The more complete the register was. the more strength they put into the bands of the Government. He believed judicious platform work in the country Mould break down opposition to the Bill, and he was prepared to offer his services to the Government in that connection. There -was one factor that could never be recorded in this register, and that was love of country and pride of face. All that was necessary to recall the spirit of old was this crisis. Our supremo duty at present was to rally round the Empire, and to do that we must have a national resource.

Mr Poole said we were taking our lesson from France, Britain, and Russia. We were trying to discover the best men to do the right, thing. He was no believer in conscription, but under the voluntary system the men of the greatest enterprise and bravery were the first to sacrifice themselves on the altar of duty. It was a costly sacrifice to any country. The shirkers were to be the sires of the new generation, and what sort of a generation was it going to bo? The voluntary system made unfair demands upon the flower of the nation. The mistakes of other countries was the justification for this measure. It was a case of getting the right man in the right place. Ho was pleased to think that Labour was with them, for God help Labour and God help Socialism if the Kaiser was victorious in this war. Ho expressed the greatest pleasure in lending his support to a measure which would help the national stock-taking. Mr M'Combs said his objection to tho Bill was that it did not go far enough. Unlike the Australian Bill, it did not take any account of wealth; it only took a census of flesh and blood. Tho Prime Minister’s reply was not an answer to the call for a wealth census. The taxing department did not possess all the information requisite for that purpose. If there was opposition to tho Bill the framers of tho measure wore responsible for it, and for that reason he was pleased to hear the Prime Minister say he was prepared to strike out clause 5. It was a clause utterly at variance with voluntarism. Many of those who had objected to compulsory national training would make just as good soldiers as any others, because all that was necessary was that a man should he able to shoot straight and do trench work. The questions to bo put wore not complete, and would not secure the best selection of men available. As wo could not make munitions in this country, tho question arose as to what class should stay behind. Tho Farmers’ Union thought ihoy wore the people who should stay to carry on their patriotic and profitable calling. Ho denounced the proposal that the school children should bo sent out of the cities at harvest time to help tho farmers. Those who were making huge war profits should bo compelled to pay such wages as would attract men to go into the country. Ho had made an analysis of tho men who had gone in the Fourth Reinforcements, and ho found that there were 63 professional men, 267 commercial men, 141 transport workers, 1120 labourers, 62 miners, and 400 agricultural labourers. That was a complete answer to any accusation of disloyalty on the part of the workers of tho dominion. The farmers were 28i per cent, of the male bread-winners of tho dominion, but 191 per cent, of the Territorial forces. The labourers were only per cent, of tho male breadwinners, but they wore 52 per cent, of the Territorial forces.

The Hon. Mr Bnddo said the first question raised was; Arc we prepared to carry the burden? His experience was that our people were prepared cheerfully to pay the new taxation imposed for war purposes. Tn this respect they wore doing what they had never done before. Death had taken a heavy toll in some districts, but he did

not know any bereaved parents who had abated their patriotism a single jot in consequence of their loss. Ho -was prepared to accept the Bill as it stood. Mr Webb contended that the nationalism of capital must precede the nationalisation of flesh and blood, and if the Prime Minister would only move on these lines he would at once remove all opposition to the Bill. When profits were mobilised there would be no difficulty in mobilising the people. Mr Poland said if the demands wore to be made on the dominion which the Prime Minister had stated would bo made, then nothing but conscription would meet the necessities of the case. He was afraid the National Government had not realised the real gravity of the situation. He thought the Prime Minister should bo sent home to obtain first-hand information on the position, for he was afraid it was the object of the censors to conceal the truth from us. In his opinion the need had already arisen for conscription.

t Mr Harris supported the Bill, and thought the Government should seriously consider before Parliament prorogued whether it was not advisable to proceed further. Dr Newman deprecated the suggestion that the voluntary system was not sufficient to provide all the men necessary. He also condemned the expenditure which would be involved by the process of registration. Mr Walker approved of the Bill, but said several amendments in committee would bo necessary.

Mr Witty, while supporting the Bill, said ho thought the scheme of registration was not sufficiently complete to give us accurate results. There ought also to be a census of wealth.

The debate was continued by Mosers Talbot, Field (Nelson), and Ell, all of whom supported the Bill.

Mr Massey, in reply, justified the absence of a census of wealth by quoting the Land and Income Tax Act to show that all the machinery was now in existence to procure this information. Ho did not wish to overload the Bill, and a census of wealth would cost a great deal of money and consume a good deal more time than we could afford. The second reading was carried on the voices, and the House went into committee on the Bill at midnight. On clause 4 a discussion was raised by the Labour Party, which objected to the words “ if not prepared to offer his services either as a member of an expeditionary force or otherwise, the reasons therefor.” These ■words, they contended, compelled a man to give his reasons for not volunteering, and it was therefore conscription. The Prime Minister agreed to substitute the following:—“lf there are any circumstances or reasons that prevent him from offering his services as aforesaid, such circumstances or reasons, and such other matters as may from time to time be prescribed.”

This was accepted, and the clause, as amended, was passed. Clause 5 was, on the motion of the Prime Minister, struck out. A now clause was moved by Mr M'Combs for the purpose of taking a census of wealth, but was lost on the voices. On the third reading Mr M'Combs entered his protest against the rejection of his clause, and the Bill was then passed. The House rose at 0.50 a.m.