N.Z. PARLIAMENT.

Otago Witness, Issue 3115, 26 November 1913, Page 9

N.Z. PARLIAMENT.

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 30. POST AND TELEGRAPH BILL. The Hon. Mr RHODES moved the second reading of the Post and Telegraph Act Amendment Bill, providing for the payment of 3 per cent, interest on savings bank accounts up to £IOOO. It was not proposed at present, he said, to raise the rate of interest on accounts below £SOO. The other provisions were mainly technical Sir J. G. WARD said the reason why the amount on which interest would be paid on savings bank accounts had been fixed at £6OO was to prevent the Post Office being made the dumping-ground for large sums, which the Treasury could not use in normal times. Now that they were increasing the amount in abnormal times they might find it very difficult to get back to £6OO in normal times. He complained of the excessive price of wireless telegrams, which was out of all reason, and he hoped the Postmaster-general would endeavour to get them reduced. He also hoped Mr Rhodes would work in the direction of getting a British Atlantic cable laid, which was one of the most important things for which we could work. Mr WITTY advocated the extension of the delivery radius for ordinary telegrams from one mile to two miles. He also urged the reduction in telephone charges to private houses as well as a wider distribution of slot telephones. Mr WILKINSON urged that the wireless operators on steamers should be better paid ; that more than one operator should be employed on coastal vessels; and that duplicate power should be provided in case of the main engines being put out of action bv collision or other mishap. 'Mr ELL put in a plea for a more liberal distribution of slot telephones, which were a great public convenience as well as a payable proposition. The Hon. Mr RHODES, in reply, denied there was anything behind the proposal to increase the sum on which interest would be paid. He admitted the heavy charges on wireless telegrams, but said it was not a matter that came under his control. The question of the Atlantic cable was not being forgotten. He had had several interviews with prominent Englishmen on the subject, but he understood that Canada was rather cool on the matter. It was not escaping his attention. He could not promise an extension ,of the delivery radius for telegrams. He would much rather extend the use of the telephone. Slot telephones were not being neglected, but he did not care to push them at the expense of private telephones, which were also a paying investment. The Bill was read a second time. The House rose at 0.30 a.m. SLOT TELEPHONES. The Postmaster-general replied as follows to the question by Mr Clark as to whether ho would erect slot telephones at Mosgicl and Port Chalmers. “Mosgicl and Port Chalmers are beyond the radius from Dunedin to which a fee of 2d for slut telephone communication is applicable. The type of slot machines at present in use is not suitable for. such distances. Special instruments are expected to be received shortly, and when they have been given a trial, installations will be arranged at Mosgicl and Port Chalmers to give a service during the hours the telephone exchange is closed during the night. The trial will enable it to be seen to what extent the service is likely to be availed of, and whether a day-time service would be warranted. To provide a day-time service would involve a considerable expenditure on the erection of special wires for each place.” PORT CHALMERS’ FISHERMEN. The Hon. Mr Herries (Minister of Railways) replied to Mr Clark’s query about a landing stage at Port Chalmers, as follows: —“A landing stage such as is desired by the fishermen of Port Chalmers would involve an expenditure of at least £4OO. So far as 1 am aware the fishermen have not yet given any indication of their preparedness to pay a rental for the use of such a landing stage if erected. If, however, they intimate their willingness to pay a rental for the use of the stage, and it is found practicable to erect a suitable structure, 1 shall bo glad to give tho matter further consideration, but as I pointed out on a previous occasion, it can only be constructed on the distinct understanding that each boat using ihe stage pays a charge for the accommodation provided.” AN UNUSUAL PETITION. A petition of a somewhat unusual nature was presented to the House to-day by Mr G. M. Thomson. The purport of the petition (which is signed by 1250 people) is to secure the adoption in tho primary schools of the dominion of “ the Imperial chart ” in dressmaking and cutting, invented by Miss Leah Roberts, of Christchurch. The petitioners state that they are so impressed by the “ simplicity, accuracy and adaptability ’’ of the system that, in their opinion, it should be substituted for the present intricate measurement system used. The chart, it is stated, has secured the highest honours in open competition against the world, having been awarded a gold medal at the Franco-British Exhibition, 1908. the Grand Prix at the Imperial International Exhibition, 1909, a gold medal at the Japan-British Exhibition, 1910, and the Grand Prix at the Festival of Empire, 1911. The signatures to the petition included Lady Stout, Sir Joseph Ward, and some other members of Parliament. The petition was referred to the Education Committee. BANK CLERKS’ MARRIAGE MINIMUM. Mr Ell a-sked the Minister of Labour today what steps, if any, he proposed to take with respect to the rule which, he said, is being enforced by tho different banks prohibiting the marriage «f bank clerks who are in receipt of less than £2OO per annum ? Mr Eli said that the regnla-

tion to which he referred was enforced by some of the banks doing business in New Zealand. Such a restriction, which often kept a man from marrying until he was nearly 40 years of age, was an unjust interference with a natural right. If a Government department adopted such a restriction there would be an outcry from every member of the House. Mr Massey replied : “It is not deemed necessary at present to interfere with the manner in which the different banks the employment of their clerks.” OCEAN MAIL SERVICES. The following statement was made today by the Prime Minister in reference to the ocean mail services in reply to a question by Mr E. Newman :—The Vancouver service will expire about November, 1916. The contract for the San I rancisco service expired on October 20, 1913. The Union Company was asked for information as to the 1 terms upon which it was prepared to continue the San Francisco esrvice on a 15-knot basis beyond the period for which the contract was made. The company submitted alternative proposals, whichare now under the consideration of the Government. It is understood that practically the whole of the refrigerated space has been booked up to the date mentioned, but that very little, if any, business has been refused. Because of this there is reason to believe that the contractors would provide an additional freight steamer if sufficient cargo were offering.

RAILWAY WORKSHOPS METHODS. The Hon. Mr Kerries (Minister of Railways) stated to-day, in reply to a question asked by Mr Payne, that no alteration has been made in the system of working in the railway workshops, and that the department has not adopted what is known as a system of “speeding up.” “ All that the department expects from its men, he said, “is a fair day’s work for a fair day’s pay. and the investigations that I have made into the matter on various occasions have not supported the statement that ‘ sweating ’ is indulged in. Leading hands are employed in all the workshops, and they are paid at the rates prescribed in the schedule to the Government Railways Classification Act. They are not either directly or indirectly paid any rates beyond those stipulated in the Government Railways Act.” FRIDAY, OCTOBER 31. The Council met at 2.30 p.rn. LOCAL BILLS. The following Local Bills were put through all their stages-and passed:— Gisborne Harbour Board Enabling (Hon. Captain Tucker), Otago Harbour Board Empowering (Hon. Mr Callan), Hamilton High School Reserve (Hon. Mr Beehan), Springs county Council Reclamation and Empowering (Hon. Mr Hardy), I imam Harbour Board Empowering (Hon. Mr Ansey), Bluff Harbour Board Empowering (Hon. Mr Baldey), Whangarei Foreshore Vesting (Hon. Mr Thompson), Westport Public Parks Vesting (Hon. Mr Thompson), City of Nelson Loan, Conversion and Empowering (Hon. Mr Samuel), Wanganui Borough Council Street Access Empowering (lion. Mr Paul), Auckland City Empowering (Hon. Mr George), Western Taicri Land Drainage Board Enabling (Hon. Mr Callan), Patca Harbour (Hon. Mr Samuel), Wanganui Harbour District and Empowering (Hon. Mr Anstey). The Victoria College Act Amendment Bill was, on the motion of the Hon. Mr Bell, read a third time. The Council resumed at 8 o’clock, and adjourned immediately. ■ The MINISTER apologised for calling them together; “but members will readily understand," he sa'd. The House met at 2.30 p.m. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Two days’ leave was granted to the Hon. Mr Allen on account of illness. SHIPPING AND SEAMEN BILL. The Shipping and Seamen Act Amendment Bill was introduced by Governor’s Message. The Hon. Mr FISHER explained that the Bill was somewhat on the lines of the previous Bill, but subsequent to the introduction of that Bill he had convened a conference of seamen and shipowners. The Bill was the outcome of that conference, and it had met with the approvii of both parties. SCIENCE AND ART BILL. The Science and Art Bill was read a third time. PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. The Hon. Mr FRASER moved the second reading of the Public Revenues Bill, which provides for the issuing of treasury bills in London. The Bill enables the High Commissioner to sign the debentures, money being more easily obtained in London than in New Zealand. Sir J. G. WARD expressed regret that the Minister of Finance was not able to take charge of the Bill. In effect it created a revolution in the work of the treasury, and transferred powers from Ministers to executive officers that had never before been entrusted to anyone but the responsible Minister. That was against the whole principle of responsible government. Right through the Bill proposed to do away with Ministerial control and responsibility as to the issue of treasury bills, and on top of that the High Commissioner was to be authorised to issue treasury bills. The High Commissioner was empowered to issue in London treasury bills up to any amount he liked. It would have been better to have increased the amount of the securities in London. He believed the proposal would be inimical to the financial system of the dominion. No reasons had been given for the new departure, and he thought the House was entitled to an explanation. Another proposal was to take away the obligation of every department to disclose | its Liabilities outstanding at the close of j the year in respect to claims. He com- | plained that no valid reason had been I given for repealing that section of the

Mr FRASER explained that provision was made elsewhere. When Sir J. G. WARD had concluded hie speech the Speaker put the question that the second reading be carried. He called for the “ Ayee,” and was about to declare it carried when Mr FRASER rose to reply. The Speaker ruled that Mr Fraser s right to speak had been lost, as the question had been put. Mr RUSSELL also desired to speak,, but met with the same retort from the Speaker. The Bill was then read a second time. EDUCATION RESERVES. The Education Reserves Act Amendment Bill was read a second time, and referred to the Lands Committee. LOCAL AUTHORITIES INDEMNITY. The Hon. Mr HERRTES moved the second reading of the Local Authorities Indemnity Bill, which validates the expenditure in connection with the visit of the battleship New Zealand, and also the expenditure in connection with the Auckland Exhibition. The Bill was read a second time. WIRELESS CHARGES. The Hon. Mr RHODES stated that he had that day received a communication from the Australasian Wireless Company stating that the company had decided to fall in with the proposals made by the Minister in regard to the reduction of charges for radio messages between New Zealand' and Australia. The charges would bo reduced to 5d per word, threefifths to go to the coast stations and twofifths to the ship station. The charges on wires between New Zealand and San Francisco and the Islands would not be reduced at present until it was seen how the other reductions were received. The reductions would take effect as from January 1. The company proposed to expend a considerable sum on advertising the service. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS BILL. The House went into committee on the Municipal Corporations Act Amendment Bill, which was reported with amendments. The House then adjourned till 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday. TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 4. The Legislative Council met at 2.30 p.m. THE LAND BILL. The Hon. Mr BELL moved the recommittal of the Land Bill for the purpose of inserting the following new clause: “ 46a, Part IV, of this Act shall not, nor shall Part II of ‘ The Lands Laws Amendment Act, 1912,’ nor shall section 59 of that Act have any application to the Cheviot Estate, administered under Part IX of ‘The Land Act, 1908.’ ” He explained that the clause was intended to make it quite clear that the Cheviot Estate did not come under the operation of the Bill. The clause was added to the Bill. The Hon. Mr BELL moved the third reading of the Bill, stating that the amendments made in committee were not of vital importance, and the full explanation of the Bill given on the second reading excused him from again dealing with it at length on this occasion. The Hon. Mr ANSTEY characterised the Bill as one legalising absenteeism. The residence conditions had been so neutralised that the natural effect must be to enable people to live in towns who ought to be settled on the country lands. The Hon Mr LOUGHNAN defended the passing of the Bill on the ground that there was a public mandate behind it. He regretted the relaxation of the residence clauses, but thought too much praise could not be given to the provisions against reaggrogation and for breaking up large estates. The Hon. Mr SAMUEL welcomed this extension of the freehold principle, but said it did not go far enough. He would never be satisfied until the holders of endowment lands had the right to acquire the freehold. The Hon. Sir W. HALL-JONES defended the endowments as a part of a good policy. He did not regret the passing of the perpetual lease, but thought the granting of the freehold in the case of the renewable leases was a mistake. In view of the great change which had ‘taken place in public opinion on the subject of laud policy, the Council could do no other than pass the measure, but had ho been a member of an elective Council he would have been forced to take up a different attitude towards it. He criticised the borrowing powers given under the Bill, and while admitting that borrowing must go on, he counselled it being done with caution. . The Hon. Mr JENKINSON defended the borrowing of the past, contending that the settlers would have had to borrow from someone during the past 20 years, and if so, why not from the State? If the borrowing had been beneficial, why should they curtail it? The Hon. Mr BELL, in his reply, defended the relaxation of the residence conditions, and predicted that the doleful anticipations of the opponents of the Government on this account would be falsified. He did not agree with Mr Samuel regarding endowment lands, as it was the settled policy of the Government to retain them intact. Regarding borrowing and advances to settlers, he felt confident that whatever Government was in power there would never be enough State money to meet all the demands for loans. The Bill was read a third time, and passed. The House met at 2.30 p.m. SHIPPING AND SEAMEN BILL. The Hon. Mr FISHER moved the second reading of the Shipping and Seamen Act Amendment Bill. .He explained that the majority of the provisions in the Bill were the outcome of a conference between delegates from the Seamen’s Union and the Shipmasters’ Federation. One of the main suggestions was the ot>emng of a

seamen’s labour bureau, where seamen could get fair treatment. A clause was embodied directed against crimping, and this would prevent men from being victimised. Another clause provided for the making of agreements between the masters and men, which would be binding at law. Sir J. G. WARD said the Bill in some respects was a very valuable one. He doubted whether the conference mentioned by the Minister had any knowledge of the fishing industry, and he hoped no provisions of the Bill would be inimical to that industry. He did not object to an agreement, fie said in reply to an interjection by Mr Fisher, but he did not favour a forced agreement. Tlie Bill was read a second time, after some discussion. PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. The House then went into committee on the Public Revenues Act Amendment Bill. On clause 3, amending clause 29 of the principal Act in the direction of authorising the Paymaster-general instead of the Minister to pay unclaimed deposits transferred to the Consolidated Fund to any claimant who can establish his right thereto, Mr ELL contended that this relieved the Minister of a responsibility he ought to retain. Ho called for a division on the clause, which was carried by 55 votes to 27. All the clauses which contained this principle of relieving the Minister of responsibility were likewise challenged, but the Government was able to maintain a majority of from eight to 10 votes. The Bill was reported with minor amendments. LOCAL AUTHORITIES INDEMNITY. The House then went into committee on the Local Authorities Indemnity Bill, which was reported without amendment. The Bill was read a third time, and passed. The House rose at 10.9 p.m. WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 5. The Legislative Council met at 2.30 p.m. SCIENCE AND ART BILL. The Hon. Mr BELL moved the second reading of the Science and Art Bill, explaining that it proposed to set up a board to control the Dominion Museum, National Art Gallery, and Dominion Library. The Council adjourned at 4 o’clock. The House met at 2.30 p.m. PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. The Public Revenues Act Amendment Bill was read a third time. NAv.-iij DEFENCE. Sir J. G. WARD asked whether the British Government had informed the New Zealand Government in writing of its decision to alter an honourable arrangement made with the Prime Minister of New Zealand on August 18,1909, undertaking to have two “Bristol” cruisers, three destroyers, and two submarines despatched to and to remain in New Zealand waters, and if any protest in writing or otherwise against such breach of an honourable arrangement was made by the New Zealand Government. The Hon. Mr MASSEY replied that the matter was dealt with in the statement regarding naval defence laid on the table of the House on October 28. The following extracts therefrom set out the position: “ Up to the time of the Defence Minister’s visit little or nothing had been dune by the Admiralty to give effect to its part of the 1909 agreement, and an intimation was given to him by the Imperial authorities that the position had changed so materially that it was not considered advisable to carry out the agreement or to send Now Zealand the ships referred to. In correspondence between Mr M'Kenna and Sir Joseph Ward the New Zealand Government, after due consideration, came to the conclusion that the proposal for two light cruisers was too great a departure from the 1909 agreement and approached the Admiralty, asking that two cruisers of the “ Bristol’’ type should be substituted for the two light cruisers, in which case the Government would ask Parliament to provide an additional £50,000, thus making the £IOO,OOO now provided up to £150,000 per annum. This oiler has not been accepted, and the following extract from a telegram, dated October 2, from the Secretary of State will, 1 think, explain itself :— *• It was confidently anticipated in 1909 that the stationing of the 1 BrietoLs ’ in New Zealand waters could be arranged without interfering with the general strategic disposition of naval strength necessary in the interests of the Empire as a whole. The available ‘ Bristols ’ are required elsewhere. In particular two have been sent temporarily to the East India and China stations respectively. At present they would be superfluous in New Zealand waters, as there are no possible enemy’s ships of equal speed to be dealt with there.’ ” FOOTWEAR REGULATION BILL. The Hon. Mr FISHER moved the second reading of the Footwear Regulation Bill. He read to the House reports which he had received from the Customs officers, demonstrating that plenty of shoddy boots were being sold in the dominion, and said the House would do we ll In passing some restraint upon the practice of selling boots and shoes, in the manufacture of which paper and cardboard were freely used. The Bill might not bo as effective as it should be, but it was at least a step in the right direction. While agreeing that the Bill would serve a useful purpose Mr RUSSELL complained that it was directed more against the retailer than against the manufacturer, who was primarily responsible for the introduction of shoddy boots into the market. The Bill was generally commended by the speakers. 'Pho MINISTER, in replying, said that if the Bill did not touch the manufacturer it would have to be altered, as it was the full intention of the Government that it should do so.

The second reading was carried on the Toices. SHIPPING AND SEAMEN BILL. The House then went into committee en the Shipping and Seamen Amendment Bill. Air HINDMARSH introduced a new clause, providing in effect for payment by a company for any loss sustained by shipwreck by the crew. Ho stated that the Union Company was the company most affixed, and it with others was allowed to go scot free in case of wrecks, no matter what the cause of the accident was. Mr FISHER said he could not accept, the amendment. He had some sympathy with its objects, because he knew of no other form of commercial enterprise in the country in which protection existed similar to that which the shipping companies enjoyed. Mr HIND-MARSH said that all he wanted was to assimilate the law of New Zealand to the law of England. He explained that in no other country in the world did such protection exist where through negligence a company escaped liability in the case of wreck. Mr FISHER said the House could resolve to adopt the clause, but he could not accept it . The clause was carried after a division which resulted in 50 votes being cast for it and 11 against it, providing that no launches shall carry cargo in that space reserved for passengers when such passengers are on board. Mr HINDMARSH’S amendment was. adopted, as also was a new clause moved by Mr BELL to the effect that no company or agents shall be held responsible for loss sustained where a deviation has been made for the purpose of saving Me at sea. The Bill was reported with amendments, and the House rose at 11.50 p.m. THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 6. The Council met at 2.50 p.m. Tlic Church of England Trust Bill, Local Authorities Indemnity Bill, Beer Duty Bill, and Science and Art Bill were all read a third time and passed, the Beer Duty Bill having a new sub-section added to clause 7. The House met at 2.30 n.m. RAILWAY BILLS. The Railways Construction Act Amendment Bill and Railways Authorisation Bill, introduced by Governor’s Message, yvere read a first time. The former Bill provided for the construction of portion of the East Coast railway at Taneatua, for the extension of the North Auckland lino to Waima, and for a small extension near Tc Pukb, which woul 1 be used for handling gravel for roads and ballasting. The Bill also provides for the construction of lines by private companies and individuals. The principal Act is ab>» aV*~naed to provide that the limit of errst cf construction be raised from £SOOO per mile to £3OOO per mile. THE LANE BILL. The amendments made by the Council in

the Land Bill were agreed to after a short discussion, during which Mr Massey said he was at present in communication with the Valuer-general of Lands respecting the classification of Crown lands. Up to the present ho was not able to convey anything to the House on the matter. RAILWAYS BILL. The House went into committee on the Government Railways Act Amendment Bill, the discussion covering the whole railways administration. The'Hon. Mr HERBIES, in reply , said he was going to look into the question of ticket examination by guards, but so long as they continued the present system of tickets frequent inspection during the course of a journey was necessary. Regarding rolling stock, he stated that last year 1032 new trucks were added to the supply, and this year 1400 new wagons had been built, and he thought these would meet all requirements, as he understood that less grain was being grown in the South Island. He hoped that the information in this respect was not correct, because he was looking with considerable apprehension to the returns from the South Island lines. The northern lines were not losing, but they were not doing as well as he would like. Complaint had been made regarding newspaper vendors on trains annoying passengers. He had endeavoured to restrict this nuisance, but hid not been able to do as much r 3 he would have liked owing to the pressure brought to bear upon him by the newspaper proprietors. As far as possible the manufacture of tarpaulins had been distributed throughout the dominion. Replying to further questions, he stated that he had been through the question of freights with the General Manager, and he thought that something better than the existing conditions could he evolved. The whole matter would bo gone into during the recess. Mr DAVEY called for a division on the clause dealing with offences on the railways, seeking to abolish the law prohibitum the transfer of tickets, but the clause was carried by 28 votes to 21. The Bill was then reported as amended. FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 7. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. The Hon. Mr BELL moved the second reading - of the Public Revenues Act Amendment Bill, explaining that its provisions were mainly of a technical nature. The proposal to impose responsibility on the Paymastcr-generak which had previously been imposed on a Minister, was being mad a simply to relieve the Minister of unnecessary routine work. The proposal to issue treasury bills in London was not creating new borrowing power, but was merely a change designed to meet the departmental convenience and economise time. . The Hon. Sir W. HALL-JONES said he hardly approved of this latter arrangement. The Bill was read a second time, and put through all its remaining stages. ACCOU NT AN TS* BILL. The Council then went into committee

on the New Zealand Society of Accountants Act Amendment Bill. The Hon. Mr BELL moved to omit clause 2 for the purpose of substituting another, under which the council may refuse to accept such resignation—(a) If it has good cause for believing that the member has been guilty of conduct that would justify his expulsion from the society or his removal from the register; or if the council is informed of and proposes to inquire into any matters which, if proved to its satisfaction, would establish that the member has been guilty of such conduct; or (c), if the member is indebted to the society. The clause was added, and the Bill was passed. HON. MR SINCLAIR’S DEPARTURE. The Council wished “ God speed ” to the Hon. J. R. Sinclair, who is to leave the dominion to take part in the deliberations of the Imperial Trade Conference. The Council rose at 3.25., The House met at 2.30 p.m. SECOND BALLOT REPEAL. The MINISTER of MARINE introduced the Second Ballot Repeal Bill. MONDAY, NOVEMBER 10. The House met at 7.30 p.m. RAILWAYS BILL. The Government Railways Amendment Bill was read a third time. SHIPPING AND SEAMEN BILL. The Shipping and Seamen Amendment Bill was read a third time. PRIVATE RAILWAYS. The Hon. Mr FRASER moved the second reading of the K.always Construction and Act Amendment Bill, which provided for raising the limit of expenditure on railway construction for BhOOO per mile to £BOOO. Mr MASSEY said he was not quite satisfied with Bill. There was not a sufficient amount of information in it. The Government paid £13,000 to £14.000 per mile, but he understood that the lines to be affected by the Bill would be light lines to act as feeders to the main lines. There was no provision for rating or for local bodies to construct lines. Only companies were mentioned. The measure was re--1 quired throughout the dominion, hut it was ; imperfect. j Mr DAVEY was in doubt as to whether jit was intended that the Government j should allow private individuals to oonj struct railways. They had had experience j of such things in the "South Island, and he I predicted that some of those would be ! seeking Government assistance in the 1 future. He asked if any provision were j made for loss on the cost of running. Mr FRASER: No; that’s the com- ■ pany’s look out. I Mr DAVEY argued that such a policy was not desirable. I Sir JOSEPH WARD said that the Bill 1 would mean the withdrawal of a large { sum of money for the construction of rail--1 wavs, not by the Government, but by ! companies, and local bodies would not bo

able to get money for roads and bridges. Money also would be withdrawn from the Post Office for the same purpose. Private railways had been a continual source of annoyance to the Government. He quoted cases where private railways had had to be taken over by the Govenment owing to high pressure being brought to bear on the Government of the day. The safest course was for the Government to set its face against private railways, and just build so many as it was able. He looked upon the proposal as a very dangerous one. Other members spoke on similar lines. Mr RUSSELL asked if it were possible for railways to pay when they cost 5 to 6 per cent. He also asked if it were fair that the people of the country should be taxed to pay for railways costing 5 or 6 per cent, when the Government could go into the open market and get money at to per cent. He, too, saw no provision for making up any deficiency • in the cost of running. Mr WILKINSON hoped the House would help the settlers who were prepared to help themselves. He cited cases of Government railways which had only paid 12s per cent. It would be possible for owners of proposed lines tq increase the charges on freights. They were not bound to charge the same rates as the Government did. Mr NOSWORTHY said that the settlers in Taranaki had been denied the right to put their produce on the market. The Liberal Government had refused them facilities afforded in other parts of the country.

Mr FRASER, in reply, declared that no contract could be entered into under the Bill before it had been laid before the Government and approved by Parliament. The whole object of bringing down the Bill was to allow a district to find the money for building a line of railway for the benefit of the settlers in the district. There was nothing to prevent a local body from constructing a lino of railway, and an amendment to that effect could be inserted when the Bill was in committee. But a private company was more likely to undertake the responsibility than a local authority, for the company would be composed largely of interested settlers. He could not see why private companies should not be allowed to construct feeder lines, and he believed this would be done in several parts of the country if the measure was passed. The second reading was carried on the voices. BOARD OF AGRICULTURE BILL. The Hon. Mr • MASSEY moved the second reading of the Board of Agriculture Bill. He said he thought that the dominion was wonderfully prosperous, because of agriculture. It had been noticed that New Zealanders had often to leave the dominion to gather knowledge, despite the usefulness of the Agricultural Department. It was quite impossible for one man to control that department properly, hence the need for the Bill. He instanced the case of such a board in Ireland which had raised the agricultural industry there in a marked degree. The first aim of this department was to leach the people to help themselves. The Bill provided for the appointment of a board not exceeding 12 member's by the Government, the time of appointment to be for three years, and members may be re-appointed. The members were not to be paid for their services. He could not say for the first 12 months whether the chairman should be paid or not. Four members would be recommended by the agricultural and pastoral societies of the South Island and four by similar bodicvS in the North Island. The purpose of the board was to advise the Minister on questions relating to agriculture and rural industries. Sir JOSEPH WARD asked what was to become of the Agricultural Department. He thought that New Zealand should not look to Ireland for advancement in agricultural matters. He questioned the provision of nomination by the Government, holding that they had been led to believe that such a method of appointment was to be abolished. It appeared to him that the board was to he a select one, and he he did not think that that was in the interests of the country. A. and P. societies’ nominees would bo stockbrokers and large landholders, and possibly a farmer. Fruitgrowers, horticulturalists, dairy farmers, poulterers, beekeepers, and tlaxrnillers would be ignored and unrepresented. He asked where the board was to meet and how often. If the board were constituted as proposed it would be disappointing to those who were looking to it to accomplish something. He did not believe in the theory that men who were not paid would give the same service as men who were paid. If the chairman was to be paid he should reside in Wellington. He would far sooner see established a training .college in each island under Government control. The Hon. Mr FISHER said that the agricultural educational facilities offered in tliis country were practically nil. The country had dragged the Agricultural Department after it. In this country there was only one college, and it could only accommodate about 40 students, and they must be sons of well-to-do people. He instanced Canada, where there were hundreds of colleges, in support of the argument that the boardi was a necessity in a country like New Zealand, where many problems had to be solved. He hoped the Bill would be the forerunner of the establishment of a series of colleges right throughout the provinces. The Hon. Mr BUDDO said he did not believe the statement that New Zealand had dragged the Agricultural Department behind it. He stated that a party from the Old Country, principally farmers, who had visited the dominion recently, had said that New Zealand had led the way in matters agricultural. , The debate was adjourned, and the House rose at 0.10 a.m. TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 11. NEW BILLS. The Council met at 2.30 p.m.

Leave was given to the Hon. Mr Bell to introduce the Mutual Fire Insurance Act Amendment Bill. The Bill was read a first time. The Government Railways Act Amendment, and the Shipping and Seamen’s Amendment were also read a first time. The Council adjourned at 2.50 p.m. The House met at 2.30 p.m. BOARD OF AGRICULTURE. The debate on the Board of Agriculture Bill was resumed by Mr G. M. THOMSON, whose speech is summarised in another column. Mr WITTY expressed grave disappointment with the Bill, which fell far short of expectations. The proposed agricultural colleges were not likely to become what they should be. and like the Lincoln College they would not perform their proper functions. He ridiculed the proposal to select members of the board from members of the agricultural and pastoral societies, who, in many cases, were the worst farmers in the districts. The board was merely a buffer between the Minister and the people. Sir W. BUCHANAN defended the setting up of the board as calculated to advance the interests of agriculture. Mr FORBES said he thought that in view of the different problems to be faced in the north and south there ought to be two boards—one for the North and one for the South Island. He appreciated the prominence given to representation on the board by agricultural and pastoral societies, as giving representation over to one class only, and the small farmer and the dairy farmer would have no voice. The establishment of an agricultural college was a matter that required immediate attention. Mr NEWMAN agreed that the officers of the Agricultural Department were efficient, but, he said, the system under which they worked was hard and required attention. The board would secure a continuity of policy which had in the past changed with the varying views of every new Minister, with disastrous results to the department. Mr RUSSELL said he did not regard the Bill as being so important as some other members seemed to regard it, for the reason that it was proposed to set un a board that could only recommend. The board had no administrative power, and before the Minister accepted its advice he was bound to consult his expert officers, and he hoped he would not lightly discard the advice of those officers. He strongly advocated the establishment of agricultural colleges in both islands, which would not become class institutions. As the setting up of boards seemed to be the fashion with the present Government, he suggested that a board should be set up for the encouragement of the mining industry and of our industries generally, which were of just as much importance to the country as agriculture. Mr ELL said this board could not be set up without considerable expense, because the members could not be expected to act without payment, and he thought the money could be more beneficially expended in the payment of experts, who could go about and give practical instruction to the farmers. He strongly urged that some of our agricultural staff should bo sent abroad periodically to gather information as to what methods were being followed in other countries. Mr F. H. SMITH favoured a system of exchanging agricultural officers on similar lines to that adopted in the military service. Ho also favoured the establishment of agricultural schools as against colleges. Mr J. BOLLARD advocated a class of agricultural college where the sons of the poorest men could obtain throughly up-to-date instruction in the theory and practice of farming. To be a success such colleges should be in the vicinity of the large populations, from which they could draw a number of day students. Mr MASSEY, in reply, aid he.would be hard to please if he did not express satisfaction at the reception with which the Bill had met. He deprecated the attack which had been made upon the supposition that only the large land owner would get upon the board. Some of the largo farmers were the be .t farmers, he knew, but, as against the prospect of this class of man getting on to the board, he claimed that the agricultural and pastoral associations were mainly comprised of small farmers. But, if these societies did not select the men in a larger way, what harm, he asked, would be done? The societies were the best judges. He defended the experimental farms, which, he claimed, were doing excellent work, as were the officers of the Agri cultural Department, who were both loyal and efficient. The board would probably cost £IOOO per year, which was not excessive, but ho anticipated that the proposed agricultural college would ho costly. Provision for it would probably bn made on the Supplementary Estimates. The first college would be established in the North Island for the good and sufficient reason that there was already an excellent college at Lincoln. The Agricultural Department was now costing about £IBO,OOO per annum, and if its efficiency could bo increased under the advice of the board then he thought the expenditure of an extra £IO,OOO would be money well spent. It was not proposed to pay the members of the board, but it might be necessary to give the chairman an honorarium, as "he might have to give a great deal of time to the business of the board. He did not favour giving county councils a voice in the election of the board, nor did he favour the inclusion of commercial men amongst its 1 members ; who, he though, should be exclusively ' farmers, i The second reading was carried on the 1 voices. i RAILWAY AUTHORISATION BILL. The Hon. Mr Fraser moved the second reading of the Railway Authorisation Bill authorising additions to the Kaihu Valley , ' and the cost of the Main Trunk lines. 1 The Bill was read a second time on the voices, and the House rose at 0.21 a.m.