OTAGO UNIVERSITY

Otago Witness, Issue 3105, 17 September 1913, Page 52

OTAGO UNIVERSITY

LETTER FROM DR BATCHELOR.

OTAGO WITNESSES TO BE HEARD.

When the Education Committee met at the Parliamentary Buildings on Tuesday (says the Dominion), the chairman. (Air G. i'l. Thomson) brought under the notice of members a letter received from Dr Batchelor, of Dunedin, in reference to evidence given last week by Dr I. W. W. Hunter. Dr Hunter had produced a box of pills, bearing the name of Dr Batchelor, who at one time was a lecturer at the Otago Medical School. This evidence, with the doctor’s name, appeared in the press, and Dr Batchelor therefore wrote as follows : I notice in the Otago Daily Times that Dr I. W. W. Hunter is having another tilt at the Otago Aledical School. I think I can throw some light on one of his sbaten. ents. Between 20 and 30 years ago, when treating cases of anaemia, my favourite prescription for that condition was Blaud’s iron pills. . . . About 15 or 16 years ago my attention was drawn to the fact that one chemist at least was selling these pills with a printed label on the box, “Dr Batchelor’s Iron Pills.” I was very much annoyed at this, and called on the chemist at once: hie explanation was that a number of patients asked for these pills under that name, and for his own convenience ho had had the label printed. 1 pointed out to him bow objectionable this was; he promised to withdraw the label, and, I believe, did so. I have heard nothing more of the matter since, and as a matter of fact for the past 12 years or so do not reiftember ever having prescribed iron in that form, a number of new preparations having been introduced whereby the drug can be administered quite os efficaciously and more conveniently. This, oo far as I know, is the sole foundation for Dr

Hunter’s charges on this point, if they refer to me, which I imagine they do.

The Hon. James Allen asked if the committee still had tiie box of pills, which had been produced. The clerk- reported that Dr Hunter had taken them away with him again. The Hon. J. Allen wanted them back. They had been put in as an exhibit. The Chairman remarked that Dr Hunter had no right to take them away with him. He would be written to and directed to return them to the committee.

A telegram was received from the Otago University Council asking if the Rev. Andrew Cameron (member of the council) and Dr Daniel Oolquhoun (lecturer on practice of medicine, Otago University) could give evidence on the Otago Medical School on Friday, morning. The Chairman stated that he had agreed to this, and advised the council accordingly. In reference to this telegram the Hon. J. Allen reported that, at the request of the Otago University Council, he had met it on Saturday. He explained that in regard to the evidence of Dr Hunter it (the University Council) would have been indignant but for the fact that those who came from Dunedin knew in what estimation Dr 'Hunter was held. He was ignored in Dunedin, absolutely, when ho criticised' the University—he was so one-sided. The council thought that the evidence might have some effect if read by those who did not know Dunedin University. It was very strongly of opinion that they ought not to take the evidence of Dr Hunter seriously, but it had decided to give evidence on the Otago Medical School.

CLAIM FOR ASSISTANCE.

PLEA TO EDUCATION COMMITTEE,

EVIDENCE BY CHANCELLOR.

DR HUNTER’S CHARGES.

STATEMENT BY DR COLQUHOUN

(Fbom Otjr Ows Correspondent.) WELLINGTON, September 12,

The needs of Otago University were placed before the Education Committee this morning by the Rev. A. Cameron (Chancellor of the University), and Dr Colquhoun (representing the Medical School). The Rev. Mr Cameron explained that he could not reply to the allegations made by Dr Hunter, as no official intimation had been made to the council in that respect. He thought the University had been somewhat badly treated. Ho knew only what ho had seen in the papers. The Hon. J. Allen said that cou'd be got over by sending a copy of the evidence to the council.

Mr Cameron said there was one point in Dr Hinter’s allegations which, if correctly reported, he was prepared to deny. This was upon the point of attributing very largely bad teaching to the bud system of appointing teachers. If that statement had been made by Dr Hunter he was prepared to meet it. The statement which the Chancellor then read showed that he was appointed to appear to represent the head of the University tor grants for extensions of buildings, and for strengthening the teaching staff. In 1904, by the generosity of Mr Woolf Harris, supplemented by a grant from the Government, they were enabled to appoint a " professor of physiology, accommodation for whom had been provided bv extending the school. At that time there were 27 students of physiology, and now there were 61. The laboratory accommodation was quite insufficient for so many students. The council was having plans prepared for the extension of the medical building, and hoped that a vote for this would be made without delay, so that the building would be ready for next year. The recommendation of a medical block near the hospital had been made very emphatically by Dr Valintino and the faculty. The time was more than due for the appointment of whole time professors of pathology and bacteriology. The need for assistants to the professors of anatomy, physiology, and pathology was also urgent. The council also looked to the committee to help it to such an increase in its annual grant as would enable it to appoint a lecturer in the diseases of children. The payment of increased salaries to lecturers was one which must commend itself.” With regaid to the arts and science department, said the Chancellor, he had written to the Minister that “some of the professors are miserably paid and overworked. and much will be done to increase the efficiency of the work in this depart-

ment if you can meet the needs stated in this respect.” The professors in this department recommended inter alia that the present average salary of £7OO be regarded as a minimum, that a trained assistant be provided for the professor of biology, and for the professor of mathematics. Speaking in support of these recommendations, tiie witness detailed several charges on the council which were not charged against the councils of other colleges. There were the £3OO pensions of two ex-professors, and also the cost of the upkeep of the Dunedin Museum. The council received £4OO a year as rent from the museum reserve, but the actual loss on the museum account for the past three years had been in 1911, £343; in 1912. £298; and in 1913, £232. The loss during the last two years had been reduced because the council received small grants from the Dunedin City Council for the museum. To this had now to be added the charges connected with the care of tho Hocken Library—that rare collection presented to the people of the dominion by their late vice-chancellor (Dr Hocken). “Surely,” said Mr Cameron, “a grant should be made to the University Council equal to the total cost of the upkeep and care of these valuable collections. I venture to say that if the collection had been given to Wellington the Government would nave provided for its housing and upkeep without question.” The witness quoted figures in support of the contention that the professors and lecturers were underpaid. The extension of the biological department was earnestly desired in the interests of efficiency. The estimated cost of the new bidding was £3OOO. The third department for which they asked help, Mr Cameron continued, was the home science school which owed its existence to the generosity of Mr *J. M. Studholme and a few liberal ■Citizens of Dunedin. Mr Studholme contributed £3OO per annum, and the citizens of Dunedin £2OO. The Government pound for pound grant on this contribution gave the school a yearly income of £IOOO. This had enabled the school to make a start and to prove to some extent the value of the work. The school began in 1911 with two degree students. This year there were nine degree students. 14 studying for a diploma, and 18 taking a short course, while 50 training college students had a practical class with Miss Rawson, the lecturer in chemistry, andSeight massage students studied biology and physiology with Professor Boys-Smith. Mr Studholme and his Dunedin co-workers promised assistance for four years or, if necessary, for five years. The council now looked with confidence to the Government to take the responsibility of carrying on this important work and of thus showing its appreciation of the sacrifice made by the founders of the school. That this department of the higher education of women had been neglected so long was a scandal. Surely it was of the most importance that our colleges should do their part in helping bo make our women students, not merely scholars, but also true homemakers. The council asked that the Government grant be raised from £SOO to £IOOO, and that something bo put on the Estimates for the necessary buildings. “In considering our plea for help for the various department* of work in our college,” concluded tho witness, “it may not be unfitting that I should remind you of the generous way in which the citizens of Dunedin have helped the Otago University from time to time. We have received from various sources, by way of subscriptions and gifts and bequqpts, over £56,000 —a yearly average of £5600. Add to this that the Presbyterian Church pays the salaries of the professors of English, physics, and moral science, and it will at once be seen that we have done much in the way of self-help and that our present asking is not the result of public indifference to the claims of our college. In no other part of tho dominion has so much I>ecn done by tho people, apart from tho Government, for university education. With confidence, then, wo urge upon the committee tho claims of the Otago University and ask that liberal provision be made for meeting the needs of our medical school, our arts and science department, and the home science school.”

A petition was presented from practically all of the signatories to the original petition asking for the appointment of a Royal Commission. They desired to say that they were in no way privy to Dr Hunter’s attack on the Medical School, and that they thoroughly disapproved of the one-sided account of his evidence that had been supplied to the press. In explanation of the origuial petition they advanced that, after the arbitrary way in which the Senate treated the proposals of the Professorial Conference and abolished the conference itself, they felt that it was impossible to secure reform except by a Royal Commission. They believed, however, that if proper academic control of purely academic matters could bo secured, subject to review by the Senate, then the university might; be satisfactorily reformed from within. %

Mr F. H. Campbell also wrote explaining why he did not sign this petition. Ho did not sign because he objected to the clause about Dr Hunter’s attack. It was an absolute insult to the staff to suggest that it had boon privy to the attack. He had been told that this was being stated, but he preferred, to treat the suggestion with a dignified attitude and believe that nobody would credit such a statement. In reply to Mr Hanan, Mr Cameron stated he did not think it was necessary for a Royal Commission to be appointed. Ho considered the case for reform was so well known that the Senate, aided by outside pressure, could be very well left alone to deal with it. “ Now, with regard to the Medical School,” said Mr Hanan, ‘‘can you give any opinion about the quality of the work and the general training?” ‘‘Only in a general way,” replied Mr Cameron, who proceeded to cite an instance of an Otago student, who had never been out of the dominion, having been left in charge of all the departments in the charge of Dr Hardwick Smith at Wellington Hospital when he went Home. Mr Hanan: Have you ever heard any complaint until recently with regard to the equipment and qualifications of the medical students who have passed through the University?—Xo, I have not.

Can you say whether the examination and tests are ns high and as exacting as those that obtain in other universities?— I cannot express an opinion. To Mr Sidoy : The testimony of student® was that it was better to remain in Now Zealand and finish their course, and then so Home, if necessary, for a two years’ post-graduate course, say. in Edinburgh. This was the testimony of student* above

the average who had gone Home, and was the universal experience so far as he knew. He had. never heard of anyone regretting having taken the course in Dunedin. DR COLQUHOUX’S STATEMENT. Dr Colquhoun made a statement on behalf of the faculty of medicine at Otago University. He emphasised that he was speaking not personally but on behalf of, and with the full authority of, the Dean (Dr Scott) and other members of the faculty. He said“ I was appointed to the chair of medicine at Otago m 18°4, began to lecture in the winter ,of 1885, and have lectured each winter since then except in 1893, 1903, and 1911, when I was absent from the colony. The Medical School has given a complete education up to graduation point to about 150 men an women, most of whom are now practising in the colony. Many of these ooiud no have afforded the expense of travelling to, and living in. Great Britain for the purpose of study, and in th 6 absence of the local school could not have qualified as doctors. All of them have had the advantage o * ing in their own country during the-r time of studv, and being within reach of home influence. They have also been able to study human diseases under the ditions—social, racial, and chmatic m which, subsequently. as practitioners, they have been called on to treat them. Of ' more importance than the . mere number of students and graduates is the efficiency of the education given to them. The following facts bear upon this point: The history of the school has been one of steady growth. The number of students is increasing, and with this the number o those engaged in teaching has also increased. Fewer students join for a part only ot the course. Most of the present students are £oin# on to graduation. There pas been a steady growth of the facilities lot teaching and learning since the foundation of the school. Nearly the whole accommodation for patients in the Hospital has been renewed on strictly modern lines. The system of nursing has been remodelled in conformity with the best knowledge and experience of our time. The governors of the Hospital have for many yearn recognised the importance of the school, both from a. national point of view' and in the interests of hospital efficiency, and have worked harmoniously with the University authorities, giving practical security of tenure to its teachers, and constantly consulting them in all technical matters, and carrying out their views os far as circumstances permit. The fact that the school has the confidence of a large number of the medical profession is shown by the increasing number of sons and daughters of doctors who are being,- or have been, educated there. In Dunedin, out of 4-2 medical practitioners, 12 are graduates of New Zealand University. Eight of these are on the Hospital staff. This includes the medical superintendent, but not the three house surgeons, who are all local graduates. One lady graduate is at the head of St. Helens Hospital. The school has also supplied house surgeons to most of the hospitals in-the dominion and to the mental hospitals. Several of our graduates went with the contingents to South Africa. The surgeon to Dr Mawson’s expedition was a New Zealand graduate. In every part of the dominion are graduates are to be found in practice, and at the present moment 12 of our senior students are on special duty in the smallpox districts in the North Island. It cannot be too emphatically stated that our graduates have never taken a position in any way inferior to that of practitioners educated elsewhere. In some respects they have had superior advantages. From the fiist 'll' has been constantly the policy of their teachers to odvise them to supplement the knowledge gained as pupils in our school by post-graduate study in Europe or elsewhere. Most of our students have followed this advice —some immediately they completed their course here, many of them after working at their profession in the dominion for some years in order to acquire the money necessary for that purpose. By this means the dominion is the richer in the extended experience of its medical men, and we have also been able to test the efficiency of the instruction given here by the results of the examination open to our students in Great Britain. Writing on this subject in. 1910. I made the following statement: *• Eighty-three or 84 cut of 130 graduates have gone to Europe for post-graduate studj*. Of this number 12 have become Fellows of the Royal College of Surgeons of England, one that of Ireland, and two that of Edinburgh. In addition to the fellowship of the English College one became a member of the College of Physicians of LondonA These arc the highest qualifications open to our students, and the result—one to about five and a-half who have gone Home—is astonishing. I do not think any British school can equal it. Most of the others have secured the conjoint qualification of the Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons, the usual one of London students. Several have taken the diploma of Public Health of Cambridge.” Not only have our students done well in academical work, but they have been successful in obtaining posts in ruanv public institutions. Several Homo hospitals have tear after year been stalled by New Zealand graduates. Middlesex tlospital has established special scholarships for them. This is partly due no doubt to the goodwill towards New Zealand which lias been so prominent in England of late years, but I think wo can claim that it is also in part due to the zeal and efficiency of the men themselves.

Looking bank on our 25 years’ work, (lie teachers of the school feel that it is a pood record. We are proud of our pupils and confident of the future of the school. We h avr> had many disadvantages to contend with. The teachers have been poorly paid. Some have worked for years with no payment at all. It is a simple fact that not one of them but would have done better for himself, from a money point of view, if lie had devoted the time spent in teaching to his own practice. For several yea re all the students’ hospital fees have br-ep thrown into a common fund to secure laboratories for hospital work and teaching. The public of Dunedin has given the Hospital. among other things. a very perfect X-ray plant. and money to build "wards and nursing accommodation. The Hospital and school have never stood still, but if progress is to be continued the Medical School must be recognised as a nat : onal and not a local institution. The staff is in many ways overworked and underpaid. T would refer especially to one department—that of bacteriology. Dr Ohamptaloup is at present bacteriologist to the Hospital, professor and teacher of students in bacteriology and public health, and officer of public health for a 'r.>-ge district. We want more money for the b‘;.chers generally, so that those who have to devote much time to their work may be free from

the distractions of general practice. My own career is near its close, so mat I can speak freely on this subject. the professors of medicine, of surgery, of gynaecology, and of pathology should have men a sakuy that, witn consulting work, they should rot have to do the work of a general practitioner. New buildings are needed for the laboratory work of the Hospital and the University. The expense of these ought to fall partly on the local institution and partly on the University. Medicine is a constantly expanding science, and we must oxoect in the tuture as in the past that new departments will bo added to the Hospital and Medical School. Hitherto Otago has borne the main burden of the expense of a school which has educated students troin, and supplied doctors to, every part of the dominion. This state of affairs is obviously unjust and should not continue.

To Mr Hanan: The clinical work of the school was quite good and there was ample material. They had more beds in proportion to the number of 'students than they had at such universities as Edinburgh. All the great universities of the ft'orld now adopted practically the same curriculum. That of Otago University was in no way inferior to that of older institutions, and the standard of examination was on the whole higher than the average. This high standard had been set so that the degree of the University did not go to unsuitable men and the value of the degree thereby diminished. Authorities at Homo had an excellent opinion of New Zealanders, who were amongst the best students they had. At some hospitals the authorities sought foi Now Zealanders, and as one left his place was given to another All the teachers of the school had made great sacrifices to make it efficient. He had never known an instance of work being done in a perfunctory manner. Every member of the faculty took a keen personal interest in his work. There was no friction between the school and the Hospital authorities so far as ho knew. There had never been any favouritism in the appointment of members of the staff or any suspicion of corruption. All applications had been made in accordance with the qualifications of the applicants. No one had ever been deliocratelj passed over. To Mr M'Callum : They were particularly strong in surgery in Dunedin. A very groatdeal of troublf had been .taken by Dr Barnett to keep the school up to date in this respect. There were quite enough operations for requirements. Owing to the comparatively small (number of students they got into much closer touch with the work and at operations had to do things which in older institutions would bf done by the house surgeons or assistant surgeons. The training in surgery received at Otago would fit a man for any kind of work which he would be likely to meet in Zealand. He thought that if a New Zealand boy wore to spend his life in the dominion he could not do better than take his degree at Dunedin and then proceed Home for special work if he showed sufficient promise. He had known several cases of young men who had proceeded straight Home after passing their medical preliminary, and whose lives had been wasted. Mr M‘Callum : That is the kind of young man who comes back to the dominion, and maligns our Dunedin students. They go Home and get swelled heads and full of conceit and then pretend to look down on Otago students. To Mr Sidey; The students who went Home and turned out badly would probably have done so, even if they had stopped in New Zealand. It a man went wrong it was usually because he was built that way.. Still in many cases parents would have been saved a groat deal of money and anxiety if the boys had been nearer homo. He did not think that any diseases were met with in, say. the Auckland Hospital which were unknown in Dunedin. Mr Sidey : Certain statements have been made with regard to the efficiency of the Hospital. Have you anything to say about that matter?

Dr Colquhoun : I know that certain statements have been made. lam speaking on behalf of the faculty, and wo are not going to enter into any controversy as to what the Medical School has done. Our answer is contained in the statement I have already made to you.

The witness said that there were certain diseases of which the students* of Otago could not obtain actual -practical knowledge. There were, for instance, malaria and other tropical diseases Further, the death rate of children was lower than that of any other country in -the world, so that experience in that branch of work was more difficult to obtain than in some other schools. Also, with regard to skin diseases, the population was so clean living that such diseases were comparatively rare. In some of the London hospitals more skin diseases wou'd be seen in an afternoon than in a whole year in Dunedin. To the Hon. Mr Alien: Ho was a Member or the Royal College of Surgeons, and a Fellow of the Royal Co'lego of Physicians. Both of these wore fairly conservative bodies and would not recognise the graduates of an institution which they did not recognise as thoroughly efficient. Graduates of the New Zealand University were admitted to their final examinations without having to sit for prelminary examinations. They recognised the Otago school as one whore a student could receive an efficient medical training. Unless the colleges were satisfied with the efficiency of the school they -would very soon exclude its students. He thought that those who had started the school in the early days had been fully justified. They had shown both courage and foresight. The influence of the school had been for good, both on the profession and on the community in general. The students comprised the best of the* youth of the dominion, and the standard was higher now than ever it had been. Ho did not say that the school had no faults—when it was perfect, it could order its coffin. From his knowledge of the school’s work, ho thought the State, in common honesty, should- aid the development of an institution which was distinctly national in character, although a great deal of its support had been local. The people of Dunedin had bemi extraordinarily generous, and the school had never "asked for anything which it had not been granted. Ibis was a testimonial not only to the generosity of Dunedin people, but to their faith in the merit of the school. They would not have given so freely to an inferior - institution. A COLONIAL - PRODUCT. I>r P. R. Wood-house, senior resident medical officer at Wellington Hospital and until a fortnight ago acting medical superintendant of the hospital, said that he had received all his training in New Zealand. Ho had gone through all the ranks from that of junior house surgeon and had done both surgical and medical work. He had no degree beyond that he received at

Otago. He had never had any feeling of inferiority in meeting with the graduates of «ther universities. His training at Otago, ho believed, well equipped him for the work which he had been called upon to do at the hospital. He could remember no detail of the Otago training with which he could express dissatisfaction. He had never been treated by graduates of other universities as inferior to them because he had received the whole of his training in the dominion. DR HUNTER’S CHARGES.

The following telegrams, which passed between Dr Hunter, of Dunedin, and M G. M. Thomson, M.P., Chairman of the Education Committee, were published today : In view of the stigma cast on my persona! and professional reputation by you and Minister of Education, I desire counsel to appear for me before Education Committee to cross-examine witnesses called to rebut my charges against Medical School. Request inquiry postponed to Tuesday, to give time for briefing counsel. —lrwin Hunter. In reply to telegram to-day, Rev. Cameron and Dr Colquhoun appear on Friday to give evidence re financial needs Otago University. Regret cannot postpone inquiry, as they have made arrangements. George M. Thomson. If Colquhoun and Cameron only financial evidence, all right. If rebutting ray evidence, want counsel. My brother represents me.— lrwin Hunter. Education Committee not prepared to allow counsel to appear. Hope to close down examination on Friday.— George M. Thomson.

In the House 'of Representatives this afternoon, . Mr Isitt asked the Prime Minister whether he had seen a paragraph in that morning’s Dominion relating to an exchange of telegrams between Dr Hunter, of Dunedin, and Mr Thomson. Dr Hunter complained that he had been attacked by Mr Thomson in the House, and he asked for permission to appear before the Education Committee, but was told by the Chairman of the Committee (Mr Thomson) that he could not appear nor be represented by counsel. Mr Isitt added that he knew nothing about Dr Hunter, but he knew that the Chairman of the Education Committee had made charges which were very serious to a professional man. The charges were made under cover of the House, and Dr Hunter should have an opportunity of bringing rebutting evidence if ho could. The Prime Minister said that he had not seen the paragraph in question, but that, so far as he could see, the matter was entirely one for the Education Committee, and one in which he could not possibly interfere.