THE MINES COMMISSION

Otago Witness, Issue 3003, 4 October 1911, Page 28

THE MINES COMMISSION

VISIT TO KAITANGATA. The members of the Royal Commission on Mines proceeded' to Kaitangata from Dunedin on Monday, September 25, and in the afternoon paid a visit of inspection to the Castle Hill mine. The whole afternoon was spent in the mine, and every part of.it was inspected. On Tuesday morning an early start was made to inspect the Kaitangata mine. The members were at the mine by 8 o'clock, and the inspection lasted for some four hours. The members of the commission in Kaitangata are Messrs J. S. Evans (warden and S.M., Nelson), N. D. Cochrane (mining engineer, Dunedin), J. Dowgray (miner, Granity), G. Fletcher (mine manager, Graniity), H. S. Molineaux (mine man : ager, Barewood), and F. Reid (Inspecting Engineer oif Mines, Wellington).. Mr Evans is the chairman. Mr E. R. Green (inspector, of mines in Otagb) is also accompanying the commission. The object of the commission is to inqure and report generally as to —the pre\enton of accidents in mines; the ventilation of mines; the underground sanitation of mnes; change and bath houses for miners; and more particularly as to—(a) what steps could be taken for the bettor prevention of accidents, particularly those from the use and firing of explosives, falls from roof and side, also accidents in shaft and from machinery, and whether any improvement can be made in the present system of investigation and inquiry into accidents; (b) whether any, and if so what, steps should be taken to lay down am improved standard of ventilation in mines; (c) what steps should be taken to guard against the disease known as miners' phthisis; and (d) whether any, and if so what, fiesh legislation is necessary to give effect to the commission's recommendations. Accompanying the party are Messrs P. Galvin (secretary) and J. T. Watkms .(official reporter).. ~ In the afternoon the members paid a visit of inspection to the air shafts of the Kaitangata mine. . . A sitting of the commission was held in the courthouse in the evening for the taking of evidence. Mr W. Carson and Mr Lee, jun., watched the proceedings oh behalf of the mine manager©, but do not propose to call evidence. Mr E. R. Green (Inspector of Mines) handed in a list of fatal accidents in the Kaitangata and Castle Hill mines from 1900 up to date, also of the barometric and thermometer readings, and measurements and analysis of the air in the Kaitangata mine. • The first witness was WiLliam Crow, who 6aid he had bad 20 years' practical experience, mostly in the Kaitangata mine. He said the present system of working pillars and headings was not consistent with safety. When they worked a section they drove their ends through, and at the end O'f the section they started shooting the tops down,, and as they got out it began to get dangerous. He would suggest the driving of narrow, workings, and after the bords were driven to leave the section. In time the roof and floor would be brought well together, and then they oould' go back to it a.yain. If tifrey were going to extract pillars and tops lot them drive their levels and then take a strip back. To the Chairman: Accidents had taken place in the mine, but not in his presence. It was not the accidents, however, that impressed them, but the narrow. squeaks that took pace. The Chairman: You consider that you have to be constantly on the alert to prevent accidents?

Witness: My word we have. What we want is cover of some sort eb that we can prop the -roof. Continuing, witness said that working ir the high stone places they could never depend on them. The

height : of the pillar depended on the thickness of the ooal.- It might be 20ft or more. They had; no sanitary . appliances jn the mine, but he found.nothing objectionable in the present practice. To Mr Dowgray: Ho thought there should be a maximum height for pillars- 1 - about 15ft. or a little higher if the coal •was hard. "The. highest props they ever put in were about 12ft, and the highest face in his experience was about 24ft. He considered the safest method of testing the roof was by . tapping . it. In regard to explosives, they had b&en. in the habit _of taking them dowm with them and leaving them down, back from where they ; were . working until -they required them. He thought there should be a box provided in each working place for the shots. When working in a hot place they were sometimes allowed off a little before the end of the shift, but they had to work very hard for the concession. • Mr Dowgray: I heard a remark in the mine tc-day that the men would rather work at pillars than at head places. Whidh do you prefer? -.-..• Witness: I have been working at pillars for 15 years, and am trying to get on to something else. There is not such a strain on a" man when he is working on the solid. If a man on pillar work who has' had_.no experience is not oh the look out he might gef caught. Mr Fletcher: Do you advocate larger pillars than you have here? Witness: It would be better, I think. _ Mr Cochrane: Do you leave unused gelignite in the mine overnight ?*~That has been the method up till lately. Mr Cochrane': Were the management aware of that pr^tbtioe?—-Oh, yes, it has been he practice for years." To Mr Reed:. They took their explosives inito the mine in canisters. He had left as many as four shots" in the miije overnight. About a week ago a new method was brought into vogue by which they took the balance of ammunition out of the mine at .the "end of the shift*. Mr Reed: And are' you sure that the management. knew;, that the shots- were left in. the mine overnight? Be careful, for it is ah infringement of the law. Mr Dowgray: I object to that question, Mr Chairman. The Chairman said they were there with a view to inquiry into practices which could be "remedied,', but not'; prosecuted for. Mr Reod: .""• would like to be' absolutely positive ..about this. Witness:. It has.been the practice for 20 > years, '. and I. can only assume that the management, was aware of it. In answer to a' further question by Mr Dowgray. witness said he believed that the distance between ..the stentons was 60ft. The company always kept the stoppin.ys as well as it could' When its lamps went out it sent them back to be relit, and some times it •was half a shift or a whole shift before a lamp "came back. A fire station should be established further in the mine. He had seen a trial of an emergency escape winding apparatus at the Castle Hill mine some four years ago. The Miners' Executive did not approve, of it. One or two men went down in it as a trial, but were half dead with smoke and water and one thing and another. It was not everybody who could find it in any case They should have more 6nger-pcsts in the mine. William Nicholas, the" next witness, said he had, been mining for about 25 years in the Old Country. Queensland, and New Zealand. ..About 17 years had, been- spent in the Kaitangata mine.. He had worked in hot places, but had never had a reduction to six hours. In regard to pillars and head workings, he agreed with what the previous witness had .said. It would be as well to leave a striry of from 3ft to 6ft between the places to ijeadert the sound of the shoyels. In answer to Mr Dowgray, he said his back mate (M'Ghie) had been; killed. M'Ghie was filling coal that had been shot down, and that looked fairly safe to witness when he finished at. 3 o'clock. He would say that 15ft was any amount high enough for bringing coal back. The stopping in the mine that had been renewed bo many times was connected wit]) No. 3 head, but it had been robbed. Ho could not say that there was any anxiety amongst the miners about that stopping, but one of the stopping l men passed a remark to him three or four weeks ago, "God help the men if that stopping blows out!" He heard that another stopping had blown out a day or two previously. Mr Cochran©: Explain whit you mean by saying that it would be better to leave a strip of coal at the back of the places. Witness: Instead of. the two or . three pillars*'coming out a strip could be left on each" side' and would serve to deaden the sound of the shovels. If a trickling movement were heard,, work in the whole place was immediately stopped; but if there were a 2ft or 3ft strip between each place the" pairs could work independently. Mr Reed: What is your opinion of the state of the ventilation in the Kaitangata mine? Is it good, bad, or indifferent?—-Wit-ness said he believed there -*as a good quantity of air travelling through the mine to various places, but some of them got very hot If a place showed much gas they were ordered out of it, and a notice was put up at the mouth of the bord. To Mj: There had never been any agitation amongst the miners to have the furnace in the Castle Hill. mine replaced by a fan. The men among themselves had passed remarks that they did no* think a fire should be there with gas in the mine.

1 John Heard said he had had 18 years' J experience of coal mining, and was,a memi* ber of the Miners'- Executive. He was in . favour of the system advocated by the previous witnesses in regard to pillar and i head coal. -. He would like to see the rope on the incline in Castle Hill cleared of trucks when the men were going in. It might not be -dangerous, but it was very ; inconvenient.' The Castle Hill ventilation - was good, but the emergency escape was i a long way behind, the times. If a few - men starred to go up in a bucket half of them would not reach the top. To Mr Dowgray: They Sent their picks . up at night, but had to carry them down in ,the morning, and it would be an advantage to the men if the trucks were cleared away. He. had been a deputy in the mine once, "but preferred to work on" , the coal. The solid coal was better than pillar coal, and safer at any rate. • | To Mr Rsed: He left the position of ; deputy to take on pillar work. . ! Mr Reed:. If ..pillar work ,was so danger- ! oue, why did you do that? —Every "man •to- his fancy, said; the witness with a ~ laugh. Sometimes you might make a little < more on coal and sometimes a lititle less. At Castle. Hill they always took ammunition down "in the morning, and sometimes left it at night for their mates, who knew where it was stored. . v .. j To the Chairman: He supposed the ; management would know of the: practice. j He had no instructions to the contrary. . ( Robert Nicholas ; Ridd,. seoretary of the Coal Miners'. Union of Employees, which has a total strength of. approximately, 500 in Otago and Southland, with from 210 to 250 .members in Kaitangata, said he ; would speak to a certain extent.frorm perj sonal experience and on behalf of the union. He had had seven or eight years' experience as a miner, but not at , Kaitangata. ".." He was tho workmen's inspector, and his duties sometimes took him into the mine. His experience was that in the present state of the act ah inspector's position was only a farce. The act allowed them to inspect the mine once a month, but he thought he should have . the, privilege of going down at any time, j the same as a Government inspector. Further than that, they should have increased powers. As it was now, they made a report and sent it to the mine manager, who, if it was very serious, sent it to the Inspector of Mines, and that was the last of it. . ' To the -Chairman: He could not say what the qualifications of an inspector, should- be, but it was only right that he should have sufficient experience to warrant i those powers -being conferred upon him. ' It was~) the opinion, of his .union that the workmen's '_ inspectors, seeing that they were carrying out an • important duty, should be paid by the Government. The Charman: I don't know that that comes within the scope of our inquiry. Witness, continuing, said a general meeting of the union had passed a motion condemning the present system' of working pillars. Previous witnesses had voiced the opinion of the union as they were representative workers and experienced miners. To Mr Dowgray: On one occasion his executive was talking with the management about dangerous places, when the • manager said that if any men said the places were dangerous he would have no alternative but to dismiss them. Later he toned that statement. down, m,nd said it only referred to the past when its seriousness was pointed out to him. The men often- told him that when they complained that a place wa9 unsafe they were ridiculed. When differences of that sort .took place the men went home, and on two occasions to his knowledge the place had been closed up before the next shift. On a visit of inspection they mostly tested for gases, but did not take the temperatures. . Sometimes they had inspected a place and found it passable, and an houir or two later the same place was so- bad that the men had had to go home.. The screens had been manipulated during a visit to make the place seem all right. To Mr Cochrane: He would suggest that an inspector should have power to_ stop a place if he thought it unsafe. He did not consider that that would be taking any responsibility off the shoulders of the. management. Witness handed in the workmen's inspectors' reports on two fatal accidents that had occurred in the Kaitangata mine this year. FURTHER EVIDENCE AT KAITANGATA. The sitting of the Royal Commission on Mines was resumed at Kaitangata at 10 a.m. on Wednesday, Mr Evans, S.M., in the chair. The first witness was William Shallish, who said he had been about seven or eight_ years in the Kaitangata mine, and prior to that was for a similar period .engaged in mihin/' : - Tasmania and Victoria. He 6aid he like to speak more particularly on bb*. h., 0 tem of pillar and head coal extraction. The present method was very unsafe, and against the best interests of manager and men. Absolutely no precautions were taken for tho safety of the workers. From the time they went into their place it was simply a of luck as to. whether they came out again. The, stone in the Kaitang-ata mine was of a very bad nature indeed, and gave no warning at all, but simply dropped. The roof should never be ieft bare, but if possible a covering of con! should be left about 6ft thiok. The coal would a! ways gfive a warning if it i were loosening. The best system would

be to drive places in narrow bords 6ft or Bft wide, the pillar taken out, and the head coal dropped by various means; but at the same time a solid strip to be left on the outside. The underviewera of the mine should have more responsibility placed upon them than was the ease at present. It seemed to be left to the men themselves as to whether they should work in a place or not, and in this connection witness described an experience of his own. As a remedy he suggested that thefo should be more competent men in the mine, and that the head places should be always kept under supervision and the weak places made known. Unused airways should be blocked by bo rd-stop pings, thus saving a good deal of the present waste of air. To Mr Dowgray:. The suction outlet at Castle Hill was simply an outlet for air, and not for men. There was no one on top to answer signals. If the present telephonic communication were out off> there would be"no', means, of communicating- with the top of the mine. As a rule, if. his lamp went out, it would be out for the rest of the day. Measures should be taken to see that when a lamp was sent out it should be sent back as soon as possible. The present sanitary arrangements in the mine were very offensive, and caused great dissatisfaction. There were absolutely no arrangements" whatever, and he suggested that small latrines should be constructed. To Mr Cochranfe: The furnace in Castle Hill was allowed to go down at night, and was fired up. in. the morning, the result being that the men often found the place dull on coming to work. Neil M'Kenzi© said he had had 10 yeara' experience as a miner, five of them in the Kaitangata mine. He agreed with previous witnesses on the subjeot of working pillar and head coal. The company should be satisfied with getting a fair percentage ]of the coal with safety to. the men instead of trying to 'get the whole lot by. running so many risks-', No further..'evidence was forthcoming from the workers Mr Carson, the mine manager, called ; '■'..'- George ~ Clark, assistant storeman in, the Kaitangata mine, who said that the explosives were given out in tirisr—big ones for the plugs, and smaller ones for. the caps. When a man came for shots he usually .got from two. to five (20 plugs) v and he never made inquiries as to whether they were'to be all used.that shift or not.. Mr Fletcher: When.,a man comes to you for explosives," do you expect that he will" not ask for more than will serve for that particular day?—l could not very well say tnat. I have, heard them remark that they. would no£ be back the .next day, though not directly to me. Sometimes they . got 21b, .which was the maximum, but I never inquired how long it .was tovlastT-. To Mr Reed: Witness knew, that the law was that only enough ammunition for one shift should. be taken into the mine at once.

To Mr Dowgray: The road to. the magazine could not be called bad, though it was greasy sometimes. He had heard the men growling about it, but some men would growl about anything. ~- -;..-j Robert Lee, engineer, to, the Kaitangata Company, and.acting general manager, said he would like to explain the company's intention with regard to the, .new. seam it was ] opening up. A drive ' had already been put in, dipping at one in. throe, and a large. drive was now being put in to act as the main drive, to the new mine. The company intended ventilating the new mine by means of a sirocco fan, capable of putting through over 80,000 cubic feet of air per minute. The object was to increase the output, and secondly to do all the work in the Kaitangata mine in one shift. It was hoped to connect with the present mine in the neighbourhood of No.. £1 dip, and when they did that they hoped to be able to work the coal hobe towards the mouth of the mine, and drop all work on country behind them. That would mean safer working. The prospecting drive would act aa a return airway and trapping airway as well. With regard to ventilation, they, were arranging for a new installation to take the place of the present installation for driving the fan. The object was to 'have'" an up-to-date electric plant giying a margin of power capable of increasing the air supply. - The Chairman: There has been a suggestion that the furnace in Castle Hill might be a source of danger from gases passing over it. Witness: We have not t'one into that, but it would be possible to put in a new plant Reverting to outlets from the Kaitangata minfe, witness stated that as the mine was laid out now finger boards were provided showing direction in which to go towards the airway.

Mr Dowgray: Are you sure there are sufficient notices pointing the way. to the escapes? I travelled through the mine and noticed on© only.—F think tlerb are sufficient.

Mr Dowgray: Did your company not intend replacing the furnace in Castle Hjll by a fan about two years ago ? —I could not say. My present connection with the company dates only from May of last year. Mr Dowgray asked if Mr Carson (mine manager) could give evidence. Mr Carson deliberated for a moment and then declined. Alexander Ferguson said 1 he would like to bring before the ' commission the idea of using electric torches iri_ very high places. It would be a big improvement and would enable them to see any breaks in tho roof. He thought the company should provide them. Edwin Ridley, Green Isdand, district inspector of mines, on being asked for hiS opinion of the present system of working pillars, said that the evidence was quite new to him and it would require -some consideration before ho could give an opinion on the matter. The accidents in the mine last year had taken place almost entirely in the higlr places. Giving a superficial opinion, he ©aid, a good deal depended on the nature of the coal. Generally speaking the conglomerate in the high places was of a very strong nature and 1 took a long time to falL . When it dropped it was generally in very large auantities. When these big quantities came down xhe men could get on top of heaps and inspect the roof under which they were to work. The mine had' now been worked for 40 years, and tibe same variations. In the roof had existed throughout that period. The Chairman: If you had summary powers of prosecution in certain cases Mr Green it might bo a birr lever in vour hand's.. We are prepared to consider any suggestions ydu - might <mako in the direction of enlarging your powers. Witness: "I very seldom find any necessity for taking proceedings." With regard to the furnace sihaft and : apparatus for raising men Hill he never liked it. and still did not. As an emer-

gency plant, he would rather have a steamwinch. They could also have a telephone up the shaft. The mine had never reaily been taken seriously as regards out/put, but was only a secondary sort of affair, but if the company was going to continue to employ over 50, men in it as was the case the other day he would have to consider the situation. If anyone could show him where a lot of gas was going to come from in the Castle Hill mine he would say stop the furnace. He recommended that more finger posits should be put up showing tihe way to the exits. His attention had never been drawn to explosives being kept in the mine." and it was news to him that they were left there overnight. A smaller storage magazine could ' l<e provided in .the imine, and provision could, .be made for a man to give the lamnmnition out again in the morning. They had had no accidents in tihe mine from a misuse of explosives during the last 12 years. He would rather have a iroof of unsupported rock than of -unsupported coal. To Mr Dowgray: In a mine where the furnace was stopped each week and thero" was a danger of an accumulation of eras in the mine, " and of an explosion on the Monday morning when the fires were relit. The Chairman: Would' you- recommend that a clause be inserted in the act leaving it in the inspector's hands whether any particular system of ventilation should be kept going constantly?—A special rule to that effect would be better. Mr Dowgray: Seeing that the Castle Hill workings have been extended since two years ago. how does it come about that two years ago in your annual report you stated that the furn.ace was becoming increasingly inadequate to cope with the drag, and that the company contemplated l putting up a fan, yet the furnace is still there?—lt would be throwing money away. If you forced 1 the company to put a fan in that mine to-day it would be closed' up to-morrow. No further evidence was brought, and the commission adjourned until Friday morning, at half-past 10, in the Magistrate's Court. Dunedin. , DUNEDIN SITTING. The Royal Commission on Mine 3 h eld a sitting-in the Magistrate's Court, Dunedin, on Friday morning.. The chairman of the Commission is Mr J. S. Evans (warden and S.M., Nelson), the other members being Messrs Frank Reed, Inspecting Engineer, Mines Department; H. S. Molineaux, mining engineer, Barewood, Otago; N. D. Cochrane, mining engineer, Dunedin ; George Fletcher, mine manager, Grahity; J. Dowgray, miners' ropre-wnta-tive, Grahity; and E. R.~ Green, Inspector of Mines for the Otago mining district; On Thursday the members of the Commission inspected Freeman's ' and Gray's mine at Abbotsfofd, and Christie's, No. 1 and No. 2 mihe3 at Saddle Hill, and they also visited the mouth!of the Jubilee mine The Chairman briefly explained the object of the Commission, which is to inquire and report generally astot he. prevention A accidents in mines, the ventilation of mines, the underground sanitation . of mines, and change " and bathhouses _ for miners. ■ , The first witness called was William Hollows, coal miner, .with 29 years' experience, and secretary of the Green JEsland branch of the Otago Coal Miners' Union of Workers. .' spoke on behalf of the members of that union. They considered that ventilating fans should constantly bo going instead of furnaces where men Avere on shift. Fans were,' the best method of ventilation: All airways should bo at least sft by 6ft in width and height. Stoppings should be built with brick, and packed in with clay. He had seen bags and boards used, and that led to leakage. The air should be forced. round. the working face 3. They advocated surprise /visits from the inspector. Manholes should bo put in every 20 yards on horse roads. Timber of the required size and length should be deposited within 6ft of the place where the timber was to bo' put up. To protect the miners he thought that the tonnage rate system should be abolished. Two m*en should work together when pillaring. When there were too many men working together there was so much noise that they could not possibly hoar sounds of warning. The Chairman: Have you any opinion as to the tribunal that should * inquire into accidents? Witness: There might be a better system. * Coroners are not always sensible of the conditions of coal miners. He could not suggest any amendment in this matter. In reply to further questions, he said tamping should be provided to the miners for firing shots. Four hours was sufficient time to leave a misfire. To Mr Dowgray: In the whole of the Green Island district the custom was for the fans to be stopped all night. The fans were usually started a quarter of an hour or half an hour before the shift Commenced. They felt; bad effects during the earlier part of the shift. Sometimes the airways measured only 2ft or 3ft. He was certain that in somo instances thero was not 150 ft of air per minute being delivered to the men on the faces. . To the Chairman: He had never seen air measurements taken. To Mr Dowgray : Low trucking roads wore a source of danger to men wanting to escape rapidly. The road should be high enough to enable men to escape over 'the top of the boxes. He did not know personally, when the inspector was coming. No matter what the conditions under which they were working, the Inspector of Mines was the last man to whom they would make complaint. The men were under tho impression that they could not rely on the secrecy of correspondence carried on. That was why he advooated surprise visits of inspection, and the giving of wider power to the inspectors and check inspectors. They should have power to enter the mine at any time. He considered a man should undergo an apprenticeship of at least two years before he was allowed to take charge of a working place. To Mr Cochrane: His request for manholes every 20 yards applied to level roads as well as to inclines. To Mr F. Reed: Usually two men, or sometimes three, worked on the night shift. Naturally, ventilation was not sufficient to supply them with air. Ho would compel the company to run the fans all night for two men or 20. Gases were given off in all the mines in which ho had worked. He had never seen ambulance appliances provided about mines. He did not think ho was doing a dangerous thing in recommending the cutting up of pillars by stentons every .10 yards. There should be sufficient air to keep the men in comfort at the faoe. A passag* between Mr R»ed tmd Mr

Dovvgray led the chairman to request thafc members address their remarks to him, and one at a time. To Mr Reed: The lay-by was not part of the working place. Ho suggested thati the inspection was laoc because the timber was not delivered along the working place. In some oases the management ' assisted with the timber. :•-■■ To the Chairman: He suggested that the: ,7ord " working-place " should be' more , clearly defined so that thai© could be no argument about it. >. To Mr Dowgray: Christie's No. .2 mine, in which he worked, was not of great ex* ten*, but there were fires in it: ' There weir© two men on the night shift. • . To Mr Molineaux: The night shift had not been working in Christie's No. 2 mine for a considerable, time past. Archibald Walker (inspector of machinery and surveyor of ships) stated that new boilers in this country were always tested to double the working pressure. They ha/1 a. regular system of inspection and examined the boilers internally once a year and externally also to' the best of their ability. The Mining Acts said. nothing about the extent of the hydraiulio test. To Mr F. Reed: He would not like to sav that all the statutes" requiring ; a hydraulic test were obsolete. If he were framing the act he would not put in the* clause requiring a hydraulic test. He thought the test_ should be left to the discretion of • the inspector. The evidence, of witness who objected to a test of I£ as endangering their boilers was moonshine; ".- To Mr Dowgray: We had fewer boiler explosions and accidents in New Zealand than in other countries on account of the better system of boiler inspection. Witness supposed that we manufactured as good boilers here as could'be obtained anywhere. He would consider it necessary to take away the brickwork round- a boiler to carry out a hydraulic test satisfactorily. Alexander Love, miner of 38 or 39 year# experience, principally in the Green Island district, said he had been a deputy, and had had' mines of his own. He was presi* dent of th© Green. Island branch of the Miners' Union, and was speaking with the concurrence of members of the union. He corroborated Mr HoHows's evidence generally. Comipilainibs were made that the rope roads and truck roads should bo " brushed '* up to a height of 6ft or 7ft. There was a neglect ia the length of props, and the long ones were insufficient. A few special props, should be kept on hand. They contended that there should bo a deputy with, the men on the night shift. He thought piffars of from four to six yards in width, wore quite sufficient in the- Green Island i district. '■•;■' To Mr Reed l : He would havo pillars of 4ft to 6ft at a depth of from 20ft to 100 ft. He could only remember one> fatal accident that had occurred in the Green Island district during the withdrawing of pillars. This concluded the evidence on behalf of the miners. ....".,... ~1 ' . Richard Green (general manager of Freeman's Coal Company, and part owner ot the mine) said he held an' uwderviewer'e certificate, and had had about 32 years' mining experience. He wished to contra-, .-. diet some of'the evidence given. He "'did' not think it was necessary to run l the fans continuously where the mines were not gaseous. He wished to deny the suggestion, that the-time-of the visits of-inspectors was known to the management. He .thought . the check inspectors' reports should be sent to the manager.. The rates of Wages had been increased to cover the extra work - on. moving timber. He thought ambulance kits were kept at all the mines. It was an impossibility to remove coal dust, as had been suggested.' ' ■ • ►*,-»••= .-..-; r . To Mr Reed: The natural ventilation of his mine used to be 18,G0Oft a minute, and this air -went right round the faces. He ■ only remembered!. one occasion on which i, it had; been necessary to use the ambulano* kit. He considered\the inspection as now . v carried on was quit© adequate. To Mr Dowgray: There was a first-class certificated man managing the mine. The fan shaft was the return airway, but when. • - the fan was stopped a large damper wa»opened. There had been, only one or two minor accidents during the past 12 months. Robert Hill, mine manager, Christie Brothers No. 2 mine, Saddle Hill, said . he agreed with all Mr Green had Eaid. Ha , absolutely denied that the management .- knew "beforehand of .the visits of in- . specters. The minors' had very much changed their opinions lately. Ho was sure the work of extracting pillars was not as dangerous as had been represented. Some - time ago he had had at least three men demanding that only one should .-work on ~ the pillars, and now they wore asking for more tharv ~ne: After t' -cheon adjournment Professor James Pv .Tofcssov of mining in the Otago Univer-sity, artrteachc- of .applied, geology was called. Ho stated that mine atmosphere, might be yitiatd in three ways—by the presence of noxious gases, by a deficiency of oxygen, or a too high temperature. Carbonic acid gas, known as "choke damp," "black damp," or "aftefr damp," was a heavy gas, and consquently was difficult to displace from workings.;' It was occluded in all coals. Ground carbonic acid was particularly plentiful in the v Thames mines. When 3 to 4 per cent, of the gas was present there was a difficulty in : breathing. With 6 per cent, there was palpitation of the heart, with 11 per cent unconsciousness, and with 25 per cent. death. In the Thames it was the practice to leave the workings when the candles went out, that was when the proportion of CG4 was about 4 per cent. Carbon monoxide, oj whit© damp, was. occluded in all coals. He detailed various J means ,by whioh. this gas migiht.be formed in mines. It excluded oxygen from the blood and! caused- acuta pains and loss .of. muscular power, particulairly in the legs. Professor Park at this stage stood down, to enable Professor Malcolm to give his evidence. Dr John Malookn, professor of physiology at the Otago University, stated that thi effect of a high temiperaure on a man depended entirely on the humidity of the surroundings. ■ In a dry atmosphere on* could stand a temperature sufficient to roast meat. Men had remained fpf a quarter of an-hour at a temperature of 126 centigrade. - If the air was saturated, however, one could no* remain »fc a temperature much over 90 Fahrer K <nt. He went on. to explain the physics' Teots of wet and dry temperature on workmen, He suggested that the most practical, teat - as to whether a place was eufficiently ventilated was to take the temperature of men." If they found the t&miperature that proV duced a ti>o high pulse rate, they would know when, the temperature was too higlk It was quite easy for a man's temperature , to be raised # fby work or bodily activity.- He would be inclined 1 to think that if the tßßßper«*gl» rceg te over 101.5 that would

indicate that better ventilation was required. Stout men would not be suitable for this kind of work, as they had more difficulty in getting rid of their heat. Men working under these conditions should be extremely careful as to their diet —in avoiding fat, for instance. . -To Mr Cochrane: Working in a high temperature would' cause an increased heart rate, and it was possible it might damage the heart, but he would not express a decided opinion on the point. To Mr Reed: The figures quoted by Mr Reed as to the worst samples of air taken in the Waihi mines gave to his mind no evidence of vitiation. The mouse, the thought, was about the beet test for carbon monoxide. It was a question of size and not of the kind of animal, and' small birds would do equally as well as mice. Professor Park, resuming, said that over .03 per cent, of CO in the atmosphere was injurious. Over .15 per cent, was highly dangerous, andi .2 per cent, might be fatal. He thought that in view of investigations made not more than .01 per; cent, of CO should be allowed in mine air. He proceeded to discuss the characteristic!.} of marsh gas (CH' 4 ), which was commonly detected by the ttame of the lamp. Sulphuretted hydrogen was also described'. When present to the extent of .07 per cent it caused death in an hour. It acted as an irritant poison, and was the cause of many fatal accidents in sewers." Nitrous fi mes were Highly dangerous, even in minute quantities. Normal air contained 20.9 per cent, of oxygen. . When it fell below 12 nor cent, there was a difficulty in breathing, and at 6 per cent, it brought on palpitation of the heart. In saturated air work was still possible up to 80 or 85 degrees Fahr. • He did not think it would be advisable to fix a limit of wet bulb temperature for New Zealand, as this might seriously affect small and struggling mines. A movir.-j current of air should be ensured in the working face as far as possible. He thought it was a mistake to fix quantity standards of air. He thought quality standards were better. To the Chairman: If men complairiied about a place being soo hot the question should be referred to the Inspector of Mines. He did not- think it would be practicable to be guided by a body temperature. To Mr Cochrane: If the temperature of saturated air rose above 80 per cent, it would be advisable to : shorten the shifts to si>: hours. He would prefer requiring an " adequate " air supply to fixing, a certain quantity of air. Electric firin" was to be preferred to fuse-firing. If electric firing were subject to misfires, that was on account of faulty manipulation'. The hydraulio test of boilers was a valuable and simple test. To Mr Reed: The figures quoted as the contents of the worst samples of mine air taken, by the Dominion Analyst gave no evidence of vitiation. The men would be lucky if they never got worse than that. lie would regard the idea that falls from the roof occurred more frequently at night than, in the day as purely a superstition. 'He could not conceive of a safe method of extracting high pillars, but it might be done by the slicing method. Latham Osborne Beat, mining engineer of 26 years' experience, said that if a temperature was fixed it might make it very awkward for the manager in case of fire in a lignite mine.- It would be better to leave the temperature to the inspector and the manager. He thought a temperature might be fixed for average working Where the coal was of good quality his experience was that wide bords were batter than narrow_ ones. He thought blasting by electricity was safer than with fuses where there was a large number of 6hots. To Mr Cochrane: Not more four shots .should be fired bv fuse. ±xe thought it was always better to take down head coal than to leave it upProfessor D. B. mifung engineer of 22 years' experience, said that the quartz mines he had had to do witJi were chiefly on a sni'all scale, and restrictions on the conditions of working would be very harassing. Things were working very well as they were at present. There were no hot places in the quartz mines about-here. He doubted if electric firing would be safe for an ordinary stope. There were advantages in electric firing in winzes and rises. He would be in favour of having wider powers put in the hands of inspectors, as the conditions of the various small mines varied so much. He thought it would be an improvement to give inspectors power to summarily prosecute without waiting for directions from headquarters. At 10 minutes to 5 the commission formally adjourned, having concluded its Dunedin sitting. *