THE DREADNOUGHT OFFER

Otago Witness, Issue 2882, 16 June 1909, Page 31

THE DREADNOUGHT OFFER

DISCUSSED IN PARLIAMENT. GOVERNMENT'S ACTION AFFHtMED. WELLINGTON, June 14. In the House of Representatives to-day the Prim© Minister moved — "That the House confirms the offer of the Government to , the Imperial Navy in the (despatch of -22nd "'March last." He 'said he had already placed before the Houee all the inxormation connected with tlie offer of the Dreadnought, and he proposed to attach the speeches of -members at the informal meeting to the despatches already placed before the House. . The Prime Minister referred to the resolutions of the public bodies approving of the Government's action. He had not received one 'of disapproval. Many individuals occupying various positions had" also written letters of approval. "It was a good thing for the Dominion to show a bold and united front in offering assistance to the Empire. In looking back oil ail -off^ir it -s^as -easy- to fincl fault "witlx the -way- in which it was done. The 'Government's "action was said to be- unconstitutional, but the offer had to ba made at once to have tlie moral effect which it had. The Government acceptedthe responsibility of its action. He hoped that members would not allow mino* matters to affect their attitude in regard \to the motion. Mr Massey 6aid lie was pleased that tile Prime Minister had altered the text of the motion, as he could now support it. The question arose: Was the Government constitutionally right in making the offer without consulting Parliament, which should have been convened? This would have had the effect of strengthening the offer. It was not fair < for the Prime Minister to state that the Government had" staked its existence on the offerThat was to make the matter a party one. The rights q£ the people in controlling the finance should be preserved. Referring to the' telegram to editors, Mi Massey said this should not have been marked -confidential. Had Parliament been convened the offer of a Dreadnought might not hare been made. Parliament might have done something better by making an increased subsidy. That would i be very much better than the offer of a battleship. He recalled the offer of South | Africa of a cruiser to the Imperial Govei'nni'ent, when Lord Goschen suggested paying interest on the cost of a cruiser instead. He was strongly of j opinion that the two-Power standard should be maintained by the ' Empire, with the assistance of the colonies. He hoped | the Prime Minister would give the Houfg some information as to his line of action at the conference. The average cost per head of defence in the colonies was 4s s|d, which showed the necessity for increased expenditure to relieve the tax< payer at Home, who paid £1 9s 2d fotf £200,000 per annum .spent on defence. In the Dominion practically no result/ were obtained for £400,000. A propel system of national- training could be established. He expected that the House would be practically unanimous in favoui of the motion, but he would like an expression of opinion from the Houee on th< question of national training, r That ■would strengthen the Prime Minister'! hands at the conference, by showing thai the Dominion was not only willing to assist the navy, but to help the Empira by attending to its own military defence. Mr Massey read the report of the De« fence Council, which showed that th« present system had been a failure. It was well known that we had not a propel supply of arms and ammunition. Thera was nothing to prevent a raid being made on the Dominion, and, as Mr M/Nab had said, the country was living in a fool's' paradise. Mr Massey did noti advocate conscription. Education waff fres, secular, and compulsory, and be wanted to- see defence made a matter o£education. Every young man who was physically fit should be trained to defend his country. Switzerland had an army of 250,000 men ready to be put in the field at a moment's notice, and we wouldi not have done our duty till we had mad*

the defences of the country impregnable. ' He quoted Lord Roberts on the danger of unprepareiness war in Britain. He cautioned the- Prime Minister against putting an undue strain,on the patriotism of the people. Let it be suggested that the Imperial' sentiment was being used for party purposes, and a tremendous amount of bivva would be done. The Prime Minister : It has never been ' done by me. Mr Maseey concluded by appealing for self-reliance and a continuance of the qualities that had built up the Empire. Mr Herries supported Mr Fisher's detr.and for the publication of the Government's reply to the despatches from the Home Government. The Prime Minister said that if Mr Herries required his Excellency' 6 actual 1 reply he would ask the Governor for the 'despatch.-^ Mr Herries said that satisfactory. He referred to iibz "conerkitutaonal and strategic aspects of the Government's offer. In regard to the first, , he^ eaid it was an axiom of "constitutional history that in times of stress the Government was above the Constitution. He cited cases of great national emergency, and said the' present case justified "the Government doing an unconstitutional act. - He 'hoped the- House " would be unanimous in confirming the offer, but if the Dominion was going to subscribe to Imperial defence the question, arose, Where was our representation ? If we had no representation our offer might easily be rendered null and void. The time was ripe for self-governing colonies to support a council of defence, in which they would have a voic£. In regard to the strategic aspect of the offer, Mr Herries said the moral effect on the nations of Europe was great, but the gift of a Dreadnought was not tne best way in which to help the Empire. A better way would be to look to our own defence, and render it impossible for any enemy except Japan or America, to break it down. He advocated a local navy to police the Pacific along with an Australian squadron. The relationship between the Mother Country and the colonies would have to be revised. What would happen if Germany defeated Britain? The former mighty demand the cession of Australia or New Zealand. The colonies should be allies of Britain, not dependencies. Mr Eraser said the occasion on which the offer of a Dreadnought was made was critical. The leaders of the Home Government had admitted that Germany had stolen a march upon them. He approved of the Government's action in making the offer without convening Parlia- ( ment. Mr Reed supported the motion. » Mr Phillips approved of the offer and the mannar in which it was made, but said the Prime Minister had failed to give the country a lead in domestic defence. ■ j Mr Nosworthy supported the motion. , Mr Tihomeon (Wallace) said the Im- . perial navy was not on a sound footing. He quoted Sir Walter Raleigh as saying that the nation that commanded the trade routes of the world commanded the wealth of the world, and the nation commanding the wealth of the world would ultimately command the world. He believed the time would come when Britain and Germany would try conclusions for naval supremacy. ■' Mr Sidey spoke in "favour of a united Imperial navy as opposed to Mr Herries's suggestion of a local- navy. Sfr Maissey said he had been misrepresented by Mr Reed in regard to the suggestion that he should accompany the Prime Minister to the Defence Conference. He stated that he had been interviewed in Auckland and asked if he was to go to the conference. He replied that he was strongly of opinion that the ■ session should go on. and if so his place i was in Parliament. He was not respon- | sible for the statement in the press that ; if it was the wish of Parliament he would j Mr Reed said that Mr Massey had \ attached the same condition to his going : as the Prime Minister had done, and if Parliament had shown a desire that Mr . Massey should accompany the Prime Minister he (Mr Reed) would have sup- ; ported it. j Sir while supporting the I offer, protested against the unconstitu- ' tional manner in which it was made. Mr Wright said no reason had yet been given for offering a Dreadnought in an . unconstitutional way. There was no I emergency at the time the offer was made. Mr Jennings supported the motion. Mr Ngata said the Opposition had given somewhat grudging support to the Government In offering a Dreadnought. The offer was made at the rignt moment. The argument that the offer was unconstitutional was a mere quibble, as it was made subject to ratification by Parliament.. Thoa%h. he was not in AngloSaxon he piided himself on being a subject of the British Emni.re. Though the time was critical there was no need for paraic. Britain had a tremendous predominance in pre-Dreadnought ships. Mr Allen said that though Britain had not done all its duty to the native races these were happier under the British flag than under any other. The tone of the debate had been hi»h. a.nd had shown ' that members were all in sympathy with the Empire. The constitutional aspect of , the question was that Parliament should .control the financial outlay. He admitted the moral effect of the offer, but it would have been tenfold greater had Parliament been called together to discuss the situation. The time had come for New Zealand to consider her destiny. He was not content to Tiemain a Little New Zealander. We were forgetting our responsibilities in regard to the islands of the Pacific and the Commonwealth. He agreed with Mr Herries that we could provide a navy to protect our interests in the Pacific. If we were to become a great nation we would have to become formidable enough to fight the Japanese . ,if necessary in the fritma. J

T The Hon. Mr Carroll: What about America ? Mr Allen : The latest word on the subject is Admiral Sperry's declaration that America will never be safe till^she had a fleet larger than Britain's. 'We should join hands with Australia in creating a fleet for our defence. This would help the growth of a national spirit. "The time would come when the majority of the people of the Dominion would agree with the suggestion to Duilfl a local navy. Referring to the coastal batteries in New Zealand ports, he said these were not there to prevent any troops land' on bur shores, but simply to keep the ports open for shipping. w For £400,000 a year, -we could provide" efficient defence, both naval and military, to replace the present inefficient system. Mr Lang sard Jm considered that giving a Dreadnought without consulting Parliament created a bad precedent. He hoped a good result would follow the Prime Minister's attendance at the conference. Mr Fisher said that if the House confirmed the offer without commenting on the violation of ' constitutional procedure it would merely show that the House was becoming what it had been in the past — a mere tool ' of the party leader. Parliament must safeguard its rights. -Reforms in the army and navy were always preceded by scandals, spirit of hysteria was abroad in the land, and the people were losing their reason. It was looked upon as .a sacrilege to comment adversely on any imperialistic proposal. The defence of the Empire would have to be on a common basis. Mr Herdman referred to the fact that the public debt had gone up considerably. It now amounted to about 70 millions, and the presentation of a Dreadnought would be an additional burden. He did not object to it, if it were necessary to help the Empire. He believed that Britain should have declared to Germany that if the latter persisted in building Dreadnoughts Britain would consider this a hostile act. .He suggested that Britain should now say to Germany, " Halt, or declare war," and crush her rival. Mr Wilford cited the late Sir W. Harcourt's exposition of constitutional law on the occasion of a breach of constitutional usage by Mr Chamberlain dining the South African wax-. The latter replied, "It may have been unconstitutional, but it was necessary." Mr Hine said the offer of the Government was justified. Mr Duncan endorsed the action of the 1 Prime Minister in recognising the ha- ! bility of the Dominion towards the upkeep of the Imperial navy, and suid the present subsidy did not nearly «-eprf&ent '• our share towards the support of the navy. The sum of £350,000 a year ■ would not be too much. I Mr M'Laren referred to the Imperial ' Government having deferred acceptance of New Zealand's offer, and said he considered that the offer had somewhat embarrassed the British Government. The Prime Minister replied, and dealt with the constitutional aspect of the offer. The Wellington members hau spoken 14 times, and there was not one bright or entertaining speech amongst them. The talk of a breach of the Constitution betrayed a lack of knowledge on the part of those making it. Section 54 of the Constitution Act laid down the position clearly that Parliament must be consulted in matters affecting finance. He was sorry to hear the Leader of the Opposition suggest that he had brought party into the vq ues tion. The members of his own party could have turned the Government out of office had they not approved of th& offer. He had made it clear that the offer was made quite irrespective of any consideration of preferential tariff between New Zealand and the Mother Country. Referring to the suggestion of Mr Allen and Mr Herries of separate navies for ■ Australia and New Zealand, the Prime Minister said that such a suggestion was amazing. A battleship would cost £235,000 a year. Were we going to keep one cruiser to go round our coasts, , or combine with an Australian navy? j The Prime Minister went on to pour [ scorn on the tiddly-winking efforts at ; naval defence advocated by Opposition members. New Zealand's destinies were quite separate from those of the Commonwealth, but they would require to ; consider the financial position. They 1 must wait till we knew what we had to i do, and then be prepared to submit pro1 posals. Next session he would bring down a bill dealing with military training. Whatever was done at the conference would have to be ratified. He would inform the House of the transactions at the 'conference as far as possible. He recognised his great responsibility in attending the conference as tke repi>esentati ye of tlie country. Tlie conference would represent an epoch in the Empire's history. The fate and future of the country were not dependent on internal defences, but on the fate of the British navy. The motion was then put, and carried on the voices. LOCAL DEFENCE. Mr Massey asked if he could add to the previous resolution a statement affirming the necessity for local defence. Sir J. G. Ward said he was not prepared to discuss the proposal until he knew what it meant.

Thieves are at present throwing a very large amount of work xipon the Christchurch detective force. During cho past few months no fewer than 139 bicycles have been reported as stolen. The- most peculiar feature of the majority of the thefts is that the stolen bicycle is found within a day or two after the theft is reported. It would appear to be the practice of pertain unprincipled persons to steal a bicycle whenever they have need for one, and then to leave it by the roadside or in a paddock, minus lamp and inflator, and any other easily detachable -Sfccessorifis,