UNIVERSITY REQUIREMENTS.

Otago Witness, Issue 2761, 13 February 1907, Page 33

UNIVERSITY REQUIREMENTS.

BETTER ACCOMMODATION FOR MINING STUDENTS. SUPERANNUATION FOR PROFESSOR 3. DEPUTATION TO THE MINISTER OF EDUCATION. ' On Monday forenoon the Minister cf Education (the Hon. G. Fowlds) visited the Ptago University, and there met a deputation from the University Council with reference to various matters connected with the college. These .present were — Mr Jamee Allen, MJ3C.R. (vice-chancellor), Professor 6h»nd, Dr Hoeken, Mr L. Harris, Dr Church, Mr Tr K. Sidey, M.H.R. (representing the council), and Messrs J. F. Arnold »nd A. R. Barclay, M.H.R.'s. STATEMENT BY THE VICECHANCELLOR. The Vice-chancellor said that the two thief -matters they desired to bring under the Minister's notice were the question of the Mining School and the question of the superannuation of the professors. • With regard to the Mining School, the Minister might be aware that it was foraoerly a portion of the building of the New Zealand and South Seas Exhibition of 1888881 It was practically only an iron shed, *nd had served its purpose well. A great number of students had gone through the school, and very many of "them were to-day folding honourable positions in the mining world. It wse true that most of them were located outside the colony, but others were in' the colony, and some were inspectors trader the department, and were bringing Honour to the department and to the institution which * trained thorn. Lately a Btndent of the school had carried off the prize which was offered by the Government. He need not 'go further into details regarding the successes of otadents, but the council looked forward to the day when the Otago Mining School would make its mark on the history of New Zealand. The present building, however, was very old, and was getting very much out of repair — so much so that it needed replacing. They had had m. report made, and that report, in effect, mas that it would not be worth while to repair it. The Inspector-general (Mr Hog-ben) had inspected the building, and knew all about it, and the council woufd take the Minister to look at it, too. They applied to tha Government last year for a -vote to rebuild the school, but they had other claims which the Government had been good enough to meet. The council feit that it had been very fairly dealt .with by the Government last year, but it looked forward this' year, to a sum of money being placed upon the Estimates to replace this old and unsuitable building, •o that there might be Draper accommodation for the training of mining students. 80 far «s they could estimate it, the cast would be between £4000 and £5000. As Che Minuter knew, the council had no funds beyond what were allowed them by the Government. Apart from come building sites, all their endowments had been handed over to the Crown, and in return the Crown tad secured to the council the amount of revenue they were receiving from the endowments at the time they were transferred. They had cut down their expenditure as low as was possible, and were quite •unable to Jace the outlay necessary to rebuild the Mining School, or the cost in connection with the other matter to which he would refer — namely, the superannuation of professors. University professors and lecturers were not included under the provisions of the Teachers' Superannuation Act, and he knew the difficulty and danger there was in altering such an act without the exercise of very great care. The matter had, however, now become of supreme- importance, as far as Otago University was concerned. They were face to face with thw position: some of their earliest professors had grown old in the service, and one at anyrate of them was feeling in his old age the strain of his work. A committee had been set up, and was now inquiring into the position regarding these early professors. The labours of that committee were not yet completed, but lie felt certain they would recommend that there was a moral, if not a legal, obligation on the part of the council to provide four of their professors on their retirement with half the amount of salary they were now lteeeiving. What the exact legal position Im* he could not at the present moment say, but undoubtedly there Was that moral daim. That involved a very great strain to the University, and it was a strain that had to be met within the next few years. In the case of one professor the question would have to be faced this year or next year at the latest. Sir Maurice O'Rorke had communicated with them, »nd Sir Maurice's recommendations that the Teachers' Superannuation Act should be amended 60 as to allow university professors and lecturers to come within the scope of its provisions had been considered by the Otago Professorial Board, which reported in favour of such a scheme, provided that professors and lecturers were allowed the option of declining to come under the act, and also that no professor tjr lecturer ahould be compelled to retire from his post at the age of 65 years. For his own part he (Mr Allen) thought it would be wise if something was done to bring the professors of the University Tito i line with the Teachers' Superannuation Act, go that the University might be (relieved of the responsibility which would have to be faced of making provision for some of them at anyrate in later years. The other matters the council desired to mention did not come within the departments controlled by the Minister of Education, but they just desired to give fcim an idea of what was going on in connection with the University of Otftgo. They had been in communication with the Minister of Agriculture with regard to the establishment of a Veterinary School at IDunedin, and Mr Gilruth had been sent clown by the Hod. Mr M*N*b, and had Had, a. long interview with the council. The council had expressed its willingness to assist the Government, and had promised m. site. It was now only a matter of the Government deciding whether it would provide the means. The council had also offered "the services of the professors it already had, and it would only be necessary for two others to be appointed. In regard to the Dental School, the building was japproachimg" completion, and by this month's mails the applications for the position of professor m dentistry would bo

received from England and Australia. In two months' time matters in connection with the school would be so far forward as to enable students to enter upon the earlier stages of the dental course. If the income did not come up to what was expected, it might be neoeseary to again, approach the Government, but the council hoped there would be no such necessity. OTHER SPEAKERS. Dr Hoeken said that the council, in all its history, had never received such courteous treatment as from the present Government. Regarding the School oi Mines, he mentioned that the reason why so many of our students had to go away from New Zealand was because of the unjust regulations, which required a man who had gone through all the training of the Mining School to serve five years underground before qualifying for a mine manager's certificateProfessor Shand, supporting the Professorial Board's recommendation that it should not be compulsory for them to come under the Teachers' Superannuation Act, said that the position of professors was entirely different from that of ordinary teachers. A professor, as a general rule, joined a university when of mature age. If teachers were compelled to retire at 65, there was a distinct reason for it— namely, to facilitate promotion in the ordinary staffs. In the case of University Colleges this motjve did not come in at all, because as a rule there was only one man in a department, and there was 10 room for promotion at all, — when one man /etired another did not move up. Another thing was that a man was very often vfc his best at 65. Mr Sidey eaid that the matter of the superannuation had not yet been discussed by the council. The Vice-chancellor .said that the matter of the period that associates of the School of Mines had to serve underground before receiving their certificates had been brought under the notice of the late Mr Seddon and also Sir Joseph Ward. This was the only country in the world that exacted so stringent a condition. Our student 3 could ob'tein a mine manager's certificate in any country except 2»ew Zealand. THE MINISTER'S BEPLT. The Hon. G. Fowlds said that in connection with the Mining School there was the bigger question of the continuance of the Mining School at Dunedin. The Vice-chancellor : I understood that that v/as quite settled. Mr Fowkfe: I do not know that it 'S settled in regard to the Government giving any further support to it. Continuing, Mr Fowlds said he wa6 glad to meet wie council and hear its views on the various matters brought up. He was glad to know that the Dental School was so near completion, and he felt sure it would do a good deal to raise the status of dentibts throughout the colony. Tie matter of Jie underground service to qualify for a mine manager's certificate belonged, of course, to the Hon. Mr M'Gowan's department, and he would be glad to take an early opportunity of discussing the question with that Minister and putting the councils views before him. He thought himself that five years was an excessive period, although it wae a very proper thing that there should be come underground experience. Tbe other two questions brought before him were both very difficult and complicated. As regards superannuation, he found, for instance, that the professors of Victoria College, Wellington, were pretty well as a whole opposed to the inclusion of professors under the Teachers Super- , annuation Act, and some of the other professorial boards had not agreed to it without considerable qualification. How far t!,e«. qualifications .could be admitted into any general scheme was a ditnculty to be got over. There wae the question of their not being compelled to join. It was only in working over a general average that these schemes could be operated, *nd if exceptions were allowed it would only be those who expected to come upon the fund at an early date who would be joining the fund, and the State would be left to pay pensions without receiving contributions from the others who would go on for a longer time. As Professor Shand had said, there was a great difference between the petition of teachers- and university professors. The important difference was that many of the latter had very much larger salaries— sufficiently large to enable them to make some provision for themselves, whereas tte great bulk of the teachers had had to live on a salary that barely gave an existence. A good deal of the motive for passing the Teachers' Superannuation Act was to make provision for thoee who had spent their lives in the service at a most un- , satisfactory rate of remuneration. As to compulsory retirement at 65, the same argument applied to professors as to , school teachers— at that age the capacity for effective service had pretty well passed, and he did not know that there was good ground for a distinction between tne two classes on that score. In the meantime it was impossible to say what would be done. He thought that before long there would be a further extension of the superannuation scheme so as to include practically the whole commumtj'. If a general civil service superannuation scheme were instituted, it would probably mean the amalgamation of the funds of different schemes already existing. That seemed to him to be a satisfactory thing to do. ( With regard to the School of Mines, he ■ would liko to have a look at the building, and if the school was to be definitely retained he supposed it would be necessary to have a proper building in which to carry on the work. But it had been the decision of tho Government, and had never been reversed in any shape or form, under the scheme of (specialisation, that the School of Mines was to bo one of the , specialisations of the Auckland University College, and as a part of that it was expected that the school in Otago would be dropped. Considering that there were so many directions in which extensions were taking place in connection with the Otago University, he should have thought it would have been a reasonable thing that that course would have been adopted by the council. It was getting an extension in the establishment of the Dental School, and it would not be long — and the sooner the better — before a veteri- ', nary school was established, and that naturally circled around the Medical School. These were natural extensions of the functions of the Otago University, and, generally speaking, Auckland waa entitled to the School of Mines. However, he would have a look at the building, ana when the final decision was arrived at he would be verj gl*d. to support thg necea-

sary vote if it was decided to retain the School of Mines at Dunedin. THE SCHOOL OF MINES. The Vice-chancellor said he did not know that the question of the continuance of the School of Mines would be raised. He could assure Mr Fowlds that they were 1 of the opinion that the question had been fought out right to the end. The Otago ! members, he thought, would bear him out. Mr Arnold : " Hear, hear." The Vice-chancellor said that the late Mr Seddom came down here, and he found out what ,the feeling — not of the council alone, but of the people of Otago — was. He (Mr Allen) had no hesitation in saying now that any attempt to take away the School of Mines from Cftago University would be a distinct breach of faith and would be met by a determined resistance. It was decided by the Government to specialise in mmmg 1 at Auckland, and Otago had no objection to that, but we had been doing it here for years and would not give up with -a. struggle. They fought the matter out with Mr Seddon, who eventually said the school was to remain in Dunedin, aoid any departure from that would be a distinct breach of faith. He believed tho Otago members would as one man resist any attempt to take away an institution which the Otago University had built up, at the request of the Government, and on which the Otago University had been paying its money to make the school successful for the last 30 years. Mr Sidey said that if tho Minister would look at the Estimates on which appeared the vote for specialisation, he would see opposite the vote " Otago School " the word "-mining" and,' - in regard to that, Mr Seddon at the time stated that it was specially inserted as an indication of the decision of Cabinet that the School of Mines was to remain at Dunedin. Mr Fowlds : I think you will find that that slipped in last year by a printer's error— very likely it did. — (Laughter.) Professor Shand : You will see in the Hansard report that, in reply to a question by Mr Sidey, the late Premier said that that word waa ari indication that the j school was to remain in Otago. Th© Vice-chancellor : We won't fight that out now, but we are all ready for the fray if necessary. Tho Minister was then conducted over the School of Mines building by the mem- : bers of the University Council.