EVIDENCE AT GORE.

Otago Witness, Issue 2661, 15 March 1905, Page 16

EVIDENCE AT GORE.

THE DREDGING QUESTION". GORE, March 6. A good deal of interest was taken in the proceedings of the Land Commission here I to day, a number of farmers having come ! from considerable distances to give evidence. [ John Turnbull, who has a freehold and a j leasehold farm, stated that dredging had been going on on his freehold property. He had planted on the land after it had been dredged three acres in trees, aird they had done remarkably well. That was in the Waikaka Valley. The ground had been worked by Chinese, and was all bumps and hollows. After the dredging he left it level. Ec had also sown grass seed after the dredging, and the clover especially was doing remarkably veil. Experiments had been also tried in restoring the original surface 1 by distributing the finer material and soil on top of the rougher gravel by means of a different current. Ec was so well satisfied with his experiments that he intended to sow in grass all the land he worked. He was quite satisfied that the ground was being left in a much bei/ter condition after the dredging than before. Adjoining his workings there was about 1500 acres of Government land, reserved for mining p"urpo=es. At present it was used as a commonage for Waikaka township, and four dredges were at work on it. It consisted of flat and ridge land. The tailings here were all getting covered with gorse. In a very few years the whole reserve would be one mass of gorse. It was becoming a public nuisance. The reserve was in charge of trustees. With the increase of gorse there would also be an increase of rabbits on the commonage. He expressed the opinion that the deferred payment and ! the perpetual lease systems were the te?t for settling the lands of the colony. Ho knew people who had come from Home to New Zealand simply because they knew they could get a bit of freehold. He thought the Land Board administration was, if anything, on the ienient side. To Mr Paul : Sluice-box dredges left the land level and improved it. but elevator dredges left the ground broken up. In some places elevator dredges were necessary. To Mr Anstey: He thought it would be possible to level the ground after it had been worked by •elevator dredges, but th.s wculd entail more labour.

To 1v1%..Ha11 : There was no doubt that nearly -^tfifcy^kaan wanted the freehold. He noticed feaf as a rule a freehold property improved and a leasehold property d&teriors,ted in value.

To Mr M 'Cardie: He had known of very little speculation in Crown lands. To Mr Hall : Generally throughout the colony leaseholds had depreciated in valuo in comparison ■nith freeholds. Jolin Suwill, district land valuer, gaid

there had been a steady increase in values ever since he took office five years ago. He thought threefifths would be too much to advance on leasehold improvements by the Governmt nt because, generally, the improvements en leaseholds were not so substantial. Tr>e Government advanced up to two-thirds on fre&hold improvements. There was no danger in thi^, The act provided for advances on freeholds up to two-thirds, but generally the advance was three-fifths. There was no discrimination shown in idvancing to leaseholders and freeholders • o long as the improvements were substantial. In most cases the lease-in-perpetuity far.ns were worked just as well as freehold farn's. In some cases settlers expended a good d-^al of money, biit did not improve their farms to the amount of that expenditure. He had known cases of speculation with perpetual leases. Sections had been sold out for a considerable sum for goodwill.

Donald M'Gregor, a holder of a lease in perpetuity on an education reserve at Wendon, said he would not take the freehold, and he would not give it, though all the farmers in the colony wanted it. There was not a, better Land Board in the world than the Southland Land Board. He suggested a board of appeal to setrtle disputes between the board and its tenant. Me ar-o thought the cropping restrictions should be amended to suic local conditions. Tho 14years' leaseholds on the School Comrt i?skmers' lands were changing hano'c, and were not so well cultivated as they shou'd be. The leases in perpetuity were as well worked as the freehold lands. Ho kn°\v that freeholders in his district wero suffering under mortgages. He thought tne leaseholders should b© allowed to borrow more money from the Government on their leaseholds, and when their improvement? were sufficient the cropping regulations should be done away with altogether. The lease-in-pcrpetuity settlers in his district were perfectly satisfied with their tenure. Witness had often been behind with his rent, and had been always allowed time hi which to pay it. He was satisfied the freehold tenure' interfered with the ed '.cation of the children. They were so keen after the unearned increment that they stayed at home to work.

In answer to a question, witness subsequently said he would not prevent set Hers with the right of purchase from acquiring the freehold of their lajids.

Dugald L. Poppelwell, solicitor, handed in a statement he had prepared giving the views of W. Hayes, farmer and runholder, of Balfour, regarding some local grievances and the granting of valuation for grassing runs in high country. Ec also thought the Government should pay two-thirds of the cost of destroying rabbits on badly infested runs, especially in high country. Mr Poppelvvell advocated some provision for dividing a leasehold amonerst a family, making each party liable for ffie rent of his particular portion of the land. The lease-in-perp&tuity settlers could not get the earn© accommodation from the banks os freeholder?.

David Lamb-, storekeeper, Waikaka, who owns a township freehold, appeared on behalf of the tenants on the School Commissioners' land?. These tenants wish&d_ to come under tbo knnd Board acimiuistaatips,

so as to obtain the same advantages as Crown tenants. Their leases were too short, and they did not ge>t valuation for improvements. These tenants, he thought, would want the right to purchase, though, in his opinion, the lease in perpetuity was as good a- a freehold. .All the fend they had got from the School Commissioners had been got at the point of the bayonet The people wero dissatisfied with th-o- administration of the School Commissioners.

John Milne, larraer, Waikaka, with 400 acres lease in perpetuity, for which hs paid Is an acre per year, objected to the principle of revaluation. He would rather have the fieehold of his holding. He already ha-1 640 acres of freehold, which he could divide as he liked. In the ease of the lease in perpetuity he was not free to act without consulting others. He believed in the deferred ppyment system. If the Government gave the freehold they would get the best out of the ground for all time.

Robert Keith, fartrer, Waikaka and Wyndham. with a fieehold and education reserve lease, objected to the short leases granted by the School Commissioners. These lessees would rather be under the Land Beards. He preferred the lease with the right of purchase. There were more restrictions in regard to the lease in perpetuity than in regard to the freehold.

William Waddle, farmer, Waikaka Valle}-, said he was a freeholder. The lease-in-per-petuity system had been a great success in the district. The Pomahaka Settlement had been a failure. He knew farmers who had gone from Tokoraka and other parts of th-e district, and were now farming in the Old Country, and doing better than they had done in Otago.

To Mr Anstey : Witness said he was not a member of the Farmers' Union. More leaseholders than freeholders had abandoned their sections in that district.

Hugh Smith, freeholder, near Gore, as the representative of the Waikaka Valley branch of the Farmers' Union (with a membership of 50), spoke in favour of the freehold. The early settlers in the district had succeeded because they had worked hard to secure the freehold and make comfortab'e homes for themelves and their families. They were mostly men who had got tired of paying rents and of working for other people, but when they tried to work for themselves they rolled up their sleeves, and there was no eight ho\xrs a -day for them. As the result of their efforts their land had doubled in value, but the land in the township had increased in value tenfold. Rag wort and Californian thi=tle were getting into his district. The land about him had only increased by the improvements the people had put on it. Some of the land' had decreased in value.

To Mr Paul: He would view with apprehcii^ion the revaluation of loaves at stated periods as tberc might not always be a Government in power favourable to the farmers.

William Johnston. Waikaka Valley, eai'l he was owner of 600 acres, which he had farmed for aboiit 18 year*. About 28 years ago he took up 200 acres on the deferredpayment system. He came before the commission to say that he had observed that freehold land was better looked after than leasehold. He always thought that if the tenant had the right to purchase he wpiild

do his best to keep the land in good heart, and thereby produce more out of it thaa the man who allowed it to become covered? with couehe grass and w eeds. He knew farms valued at £3 an acre that he would! not care about taking up at any money because they were so foul with wced^. Weeds were very hard to kill in Southland! on account of the moist climate. He was sure that if some of the School Commissioners' tenants were conceited to clear their land they would have to abandon it. He had thought a good deal about tho State settlement scheme, and he believed' it would Le a good thing for the Government to supply fencing and other materials to the selectors at a cheaper rate than they could buy outside. He did not support the. idea that a man should mortgage his -mprovements straight away. The farmers did not, get much of the coal deposits. In some places so much coal as was required eouldi be obtained at 5s a ton.

Alexander M'Lachlan, threshing millowner at Otama, objected to the Government parting with the freehold. If all the land were sold where was posterity to gee laud to sett'e upon? He approved of the lease in perpetuity if recurring periodical valuations were allowed. It was all nonsense to say that the aggregation of estates was not going an. In Otama nearly every farmer had added to his freehold by buying out his neighbour. The farms were 200acre farms in the first place, and most of them now held 400 acres or upwards. Landi was increasing in value. Some land ac Otama was sold some years ago for £6 an, acre, and last year an offer of £12 5s for it was refused. If all the land was sold! the revenue now derived from it in the way of rent would be gone, and more taxes would have to be paid through the Customs. In reply to questions, the witness saicl that in --the Otama district one year he> threshed 110 bushels of oats to the acre. In that same year he threshed over ICO bushe!s to the acre. Taking one year with another fro>n 40 to 50 bushels was an average yield. Not much wheat was grown in the district. Freeholders he had spokert to were afraid that the Government would! extend the Land for Settlements Act in. the direction of acquiring small estates as well as large estates — in other words, they believed that the Government v, as goin? to nationalise all the land. He considered) that chaff might spread both ragwort and; Califomian thistle. An area of 640 acrgs was too much for a man to hold. It would be a good idea to base the limitation not on area but on value.

John M' Gibbon, merchant. Gore, said 1 c had been in business in the district for over 30 years. He had a freehold farm of 200 acres close to Gore. It was a deferred-pay-ment section in the fiist instance, but in the course of business he had to take it over for a debt. He liked the 999 years' lease, his only object'on to it being that there was no re\aluation. He did not favour the option of tho freehold. When M'Nab's Station of 100.000 acres was broken up the lar.d was sold on deferred payments, bufc nearly e\ cry one of the setters paid too much for it, and the Government had to step in and readjust matters. If the Government had not tak>->n action there would have been an exorlus from the district, h'a'a under tho ciicunostanees met of them wcr^ abLp to g-ot loaas and pay their way*

In reply to questions, witness said that one man at Otama had bought out five or six of his neighbours. The" men he had bought out had sold to advantage. In one case a man paid £2 an acre for his land and sold &t £8. - The improvements he had put on the land would be worth, say, £2 an acre. Free selection was the xuin of th& old runholders in Southland. He considered that the Advances to Settlers Office liad done good to many farmers. Witness had put a lot of grass seed through his tands.

Mr Johnston : Have you found much Californian thistle in it? — Witness: I cannot say I have. Of course, you ar© not allowed to sell seed unless it has been dressed, and the machines clean it very well. 1 have had no complaint.

Where did th& Cafiforuian thistle and rag■wort come from? — I do not know. I first saw it down near Invarcargill.

Why has it spread so much? — I have known men in rough country buy from the seed dressers the refuse for Is a bag, ana bow it all over their land. I reckon that is one very fruitful source of spreading weeds. Did these men hold Government leases? — $fo; they -were men with freeholds. Andrew Aitken, farmer, said he held 200 acres of freehold and 100 acres of leasehold near Gore. He favoured the leasehold tenure in preference to the freehold.. The Crown ought to be the landlord. If everyone paid rent to th© Government th& general taxes would be less than at present. He believed in the Goj-arnment acquiring estates, but thought it had paid too much for those it had bought in Otago. The Chairman : Do you think it paid too much for Ed&adale?— Witaess: Yes, I think so. Further examined, he- said he had had some experience with ragwort. After a field had been cleared of ra?wort the ground •would give a good crop. The weed would not com© up with the first crop. It would aiofc oome up until the land had been two years in grass. This evening the commission leaves for Iviversdale, where it is expected a large number of witnesses will be forthcoming