MAJOR-GENERAL BABINGTON'S EVIDENCE.

Otago Witness, Issue 2649, 21 December 1904, Page 17

MAJOR-GENERAL BABINGTON'S EVIDENCE.

SUPPORTS CAPTAIN SEDDON.

FURTHER STATEMENTS BY TROOfKRS.

CHRISTCHURCH, December 15.

The case in which Captain Seddon claims £1000 damages from Mr T. E. Taylor, senior member for Christchurch, for defamation of character was resumed this morning, before his Honor- Mr Justice Denniston and a special jury. Dr Findlay and Mr T. ,W.

' Stringer appeared for plaintiff, and MiTaylor conducted his own case. Albert E. Cohen, journalist, gave evidence that he heard the speech made by Mr Taylor on the Imprest Supply Bill. Mr Taylor used the word " court-martial " in j regard to some officer. The words "martial ' court " would have attracted special notice, j Andrew Houston, clerk, a member of the Seventh Contingent, was present at the Blessbok Spruit affair. He was in the scouts that day. -They were told off as an advance screen to take up a position on a hill. Quintal or Dillon gave the order, and they took the position: The main body of the scouts oame up later. Then the Boers appeared away to "'the left, across a deep gully. There -seemed to be about 100. The scouts came back, and a message was sent,* he thought, to the supports in the rear. "At that time there was nothing to prevent the scouts retreating. - Then- the Boers seemed to be advancing and driving in the advance scouts, and the order was given by signal to retire to the supports, which' could be seen*, in the rear. -• They retired at a gallop fo the supports'. The scouts got within the supports, and then a reasguard action was commenced. He did not look Ifoi\.the1 foi\.the main body. ,He did not see Captain Seddon- '''{mtil •'they had gone three or four miles towards the spruit and were about a mile from it. Charles Watt, a member of the Seventh Contingent, was in the rear screen of the rearguard. He remembered seeing the scouts retiring on their supports. The scouts joined the rearguard in safety before a shot was fired, arid then a' rearguard action began. Th© main body was then 500 or 600 yards away. As far as he could remember, about five miles was covered before the spruit wasreached, but he did not notice the main body. The spruit was reached, and he crossed. Throughout the day he saw nothing in the nature of a stampede. Just before they reached the spruit he was galloping as fast as his old horse could go for about half a mile. To Mr Taylor: He was not fighting with the scouts the whole time. He was in Sergeant Gannon's troop, when the rearguard action commenced the main body was about 500 yards away. The main body covered the retreat of the scouts' rear screen and supports. This went to within half a mile of the spruit. He- did not see Captain Drury during the day. He never came back to the screen; but he would not say Gannon was wrong if he said Drury had been carrying orders. lie did not see Captain Seddon after he crossed the- spruit. Percy Fordham, manager for the New Zealand * Shipping Company at Oamaru, stated that he saw the scouts a long way in front when the main body had reached the limit of its advance. The scouts retired to the main body and joined the supports. As far as he could see, the retreat of the scouts was quite clear. He could see 30 or 40 Boers on the right flank at that time. A rearguard action then commenced. He remained with the rearguard and fought a regular rearguard action. The action was fought in the usual way— the rearguard facing the enemy while the main body retired, and then the main body stopping and firing over the heads of the retreating rearguard. He saw the main body from time to time about 800 yards from the rearguard. That continued till the spruit was reached. The scouts were not deserted, as far as he kn-ew. He wa.3 on© of tke last m«n to cross the spruit. He heard that someone had been shot just before he crossed. To Mr Taylor: When they left the farm in the morning they worked away from the spruit, and then back to it on the line of a sharp triangle. He was under fire crossing the spruit. There were some Boers on a ridge about 800 yards away. He saw one Boer about 500 yards away, but did not know if there were others with him. Captain Seddon's position was about 300 yards from the spruit. To Mr Stringer: A thousand yards was an easy rifle range, and aboxit the favourite range of the Boers. Joseph Henry Dyer, miner, Kuponga, a member of the Seventh Contingent, remembered the Blessbok Spruit engagement. It was his first experience under fire, and many of his comrades were in the same position. He was in Lieutenant Whiteley's division. He was under fire from the Boers from the right flank as he crossed the spruit. " There were a good few bullets — more than I liked." They did not stand upon the order of their going, but went at once. The parfy | that had previously crossed the spruit were I covering the crossing by firing on the I Boers. The Boers were firing back. j Dr Findlay: Not the sort of place where you would like to spend a Sunday afternoon? — Not at all. Not a place of "absolute safety," then? — No. Mr Taylor : Have you discussed with your comrades the desirableness of defending your officer from such a chars© as has been made? — Witness: I have talked with j my mates. You think it would be y/rong to go

against your officer? — I am telling you all I know about the matter.

Have you discussed with any person the desirableness of maintaining an officer against a civilian? — Several of us have talked together.

What have you talked about? What arrangements have you discussed? His Honor: That is hardly the way to put the question. You put it very neatly, but you have put the words into his mouth. He says that he has had a discussion with his comrades, but he did not say anything of any arrangement. Mr Taylor: My witnesses have been approached within the past few days on the point, and have been urged not to go back on their officer. I don't wish to press the matter. '

Witness (continuing) : When he got across the spruit the Boers were firing on almost all .the troops. He crossed the spruit under fire. He saw Captain Seddon cross the spruit with Kis men and take up a covering position, firing on the Boers. When they left the Kaffir kraal, they went over the hill, and went slowly after the main column, which they picked yip in the afternoon.

Re-examined : He had not entered into any 'arrangement to come there and perjure himself.

His Honor : I don't think it's necessary to pursue that line. Dr. Findlay explained that if Mr Taylor intended to pursue that line of examination he would have to protect his witnesses. Thomas Leighton Shepherd, Hanmer Springs, stated that he was a member of the Seventh Contingent. He was not present at the Blessbok Spruit affair. Dr Findlay: We've got the wrong Leignton. ' '

Mr Stringer: Mr Taylor will be satisfied that we haven't coached our witnesses very well after this.

Ernest Quelch, shepherd, Dunedin, stated that he was a member of the Seventh Contingent. Ho was one of the scouts at the Blessbok Spruit engagement. The scouts oame into touch with, the enemy, and there was an interchange of shots. They remained firing for an hour or more. He was ordered out to proteot the left flank, and when the soouts retired he retired with them on the flank till they joined the mam. body at the spruif. The retirement was over three or four miles. There was heavy fighting all the time. They were in touch with the main body all the time. - There was no galloping that he saw. He himself had a long round to do compared with the others, and had to gallop from position to position. He crossed the spruit with Gannon. Captain Seddon's men were there, but he did iQot actually see Captain Seddon. He only knew him by sight. There was heavy firing on the position. The Boers were returning the covering party's fire. He saw the scouts get safely to the main body. They had no difficulty whatever; it was all clear ground.

To Mr Taylor : Long, Houston, Walker, and Quintal had been in the scouts. He was in advance of Dillon's body. When "he saw a Boer post of two men he fell back on Dillon, and the firing did not commence , until about two hours later. He waited I at a farmhouse for some time, several scouts being out. The main body of the Boers were secgi about 11 a.m. He was ' on the left flank, when about 80 appeared. He was alone, half a mile from the other scouts, who were to his right. He fired ! all bis. ammunition exefipi six rounds on fcße* retreat, maintaining his distance from the i resfc of the scouts. He joined the main body at th© spruit. The rearguard had fought a rearguard action all the way* { assisted by the main body. His duty was to see that the- Boers did not come in on , the flank. He travelled pretty quickly from | on© point to another, retiring when the Boers got too close to him. The main body j was perhaps a mil© from the scouts when i the retirement commenced. He moved parallel with the rearguard th© whol© way. He could &3& the other men most of the time. The Boers tried to move round his I flank' when close to the spruit, and he j moved in towards the main body. * He ' joined Captain Seddon's men, but could i not remember if he saw the Captain himself. When he crossed the spruit he saw 100 or 150 Boers on. the ground he had left. There was a lot of firing while he was crossing from both sides, and the bullets were pretty thick at the position held by the main 'body across the spruit. The Boers did not follow across the spruit. He did not remember seeing Captain Seddon > then, or at any time after. He heard that \ Dillon was shot after crossing. ( Mr Taylor : Have you discussed the desirableness of protecting an officer against > an attack upon his character? What com- '> rades have you discussed it with? His Honor :You must put the question

Mr Taylor: Have you discussed the matter? — Witness: No; I have not spoken much about it.

Supposing an officer's character for bravery has been impeached, do you thing it your duty to protect hirn?~Not if ho

deserves blame. I would protect him if he did not.

Do you know anything about- Captain. SedSon's personal conduct on that day? — No.

Re-examined by Mr Stringer: Witness only arrived from Dunedin late on Tuesday night. The Boers followed up the retirement on the right flank. There were about 100 of them, but they wpro not the same as were engaging the r«asguard. The kaffir kraal was within the Boer rifles' range. The Boers made no attempt to cross the spruit, except a few of them. [ Walter Choat, bootmaker, Thames, stated that he was a member of the Seventh Contingent. He remembered the Blessbok Spruit engagement. He was _in the company undei Captain Seddon." When the retirement started the main body was four or five miles from the spruit. Witness was out on the right flank. Sergeant/ Pepper and others were with him, but he could not remember their names. It was their duty to keep abreast of the main body in the retirement. They retired at a fast walking pace. ' When he and his comrades got' near the spruit they found that they were . too . far . out from t.lip. main body. They were looking 'for a crossing w.hen the Boers opened fire on them, and finding a crossing they took cover. The firing was very hot. They could have crossed had they kept nearer in. To get down pa ,where the main body was they would have had to gallop several hundred - yards across an open space under fire. He knew that M'Nairn lan the^ gauntlgjL^nd-vgti^, through. He did not know how many" 'were taken, prisoners. Recce, Stance, and himself were captured and Pepper shot. He surrendered! after half an hour and after . seeing several of the horses shot. He had only a few, rounds of ammunition left when he surrendered. The Boers were only 40 ' or 50 yards away when ha surrendered. . There must have been over 200 of them.- The Boers took them over the spruit and showed ihem in what direction to go. The Boers stripped them first.

To Mr Taylor: He was sent out to the right flank by Captain Seddon. Sergeant Pepper was in command of the party, and, presumably, got the order. The right flank should have kept 400 or 500 yards from the main body, but got too far out when, jiearing the spruit. Mr Taylor : Have you received a 'letter from Captain Seddon in regard to the case during the past 12 months ? — Witness : Yes. When did he write? — I wrote to him first

expressing sympathy for the yarns being • told about him. Where had you heard them?— l had heard) it talked about and had seen it in. the papers. • -Apart from the papers, where did you hear the " yarns " ?— Some of the chaps drew , my attention to the slander statejaent being made. • ' "What did Captain Seddon write to you?—, "He .acknowledged my letter, and said that^ he was very glad to hear that I -upheld him. "You had said that you would upljpld him. Have you the letter? Dr Findlay produced a copy of the letter, and witness produced the letter he had received from. Captain Seddon. Mr Taylor : Did anyone consult you about this?— Witness: I had a' letter from Mr Fair asking me whether I had written. Who is Mr Fair? "What had he to say about the suggested correspondence? — He was a lieutenant. I don't know where he is now, or where he wrote from. He asked me whether I had heard the talk about Captain Seddon, and whether- 1 bar) written to him. No one else wrote to me. I wrote to Captain. Seddon after that. The 'letters -wero then read as folloVs: — Captain Seddon.— l have seen by the-,papers that you intend to proceed against Tommy Taylor for libel, and I think it is the least I can do to uphold one whom I respect as an officer and squadron leader. I have always had the opinion, and always will, that you were as capable, willing, and brave as any of th<-m; and I think you will have the sympathy of all the Seventh New Zealanders, and especially the - Nelson squad, " who, with you as their captain -and leader, had a good snare of th.2 fighting and hardships, and I never xe-jtueanber^-hearing _a word against your ability as an officer. If I can be of .any further service to you I^ shall be only" too glad. ~- Wishing your every* good luck, believe " me your sincere friend, Trooper W. A. Choat. - (Private). Wellington, August Vt, 1904.— My" Dear Choat,— : l have much pleasure in acknowledging your letter of the 23rd inst. It is very pleasing to me to hear the opinions of pry men in this matter, and I am delighted to learn that you still hold a -good opinion of me, notwithstanding all the statements that have been made. I have heard from a. great number of the late Nelson squadron and many others, and with .my men behind me 1 hope jto get a, complete vindication. I remember you quite well, because you were known as jbeing a good shot — a, thing "" which was of Rreat value on .active service. I shall never Forget the day you potted a Boer outside fetanderton when the white flag was hoisted. You might let me know whether you were Attached to my party the day Sergeant JPepper Jwao killed. I can only- say that I tried to flo my best always for my squadron's comfort; jboth in the field and in camp; and, as you sky. I think I took my share of the risks. /You miist have been somewhat surprised when you -heard that such statements were being made. I really can't say just now what evijdence will be required, but should it be found accessary _tp take 1 your evidence you will be ■fcdvised direct. In the meantime let me know if you were present at the above-mentioned engagement. Thanking you again for your' > jthoughtfulness in writing to me, giving your, , yhat I consider, straightforward opinion, and < Vrith kind regards. — Believe me, youra fincerely, K. J. Seddou, Captain 23rd Squad., late Sefenth NeW Zealand Contingent. ' . Continuing, witness eaid that during the $*y no messenger, thai xxa Jujaw of, wa6

'Sent out to the right flank. Prior to send- , > ing his letter he had not talked freely to | ■ his comrades with regard to the kaffir spruit ; : affair. ; Hugh Recce, miner, Blenheim, a member 1 of the Seventh Contingent, said he was at i the Blessbok Spruit affair, under command 1 of Captain Seddon. He was one of those ■ who, were taken prisoner by the Boers. He ■ '. ' was wouiideoT in the shoulder. He was * ( taken to a Boer farmhouse, and .remained J there till the following night. He^saw from ' 80 ~to 100 Boers while being carried to the : farmhouse. Sergeant Pepper had directed ' witness and his comrades until he (Pepper) ; was killed. While being carried to the • farmhouse witness saw one dead Boer. ' After getting across the spruit Captain Sed- ] don's company took up a position on a ! kopje and commenced firing- " ' By Mr Taylor: Sergeant Pepper's party j comprised M'Guire, Carter, Morris, : M'Gavin, and' witness. It was near the I spruit that witness was wounded. Later on j he was attended to by Dr Gabites. ' Mr Taylor .- Have you discussed with your fellows the question of standing by your I officers when they got into a fix? — Wit- ' ness: No, certainly not. Have ■< you expressed the opinion that a soldier should stand by his officers? — No. Have you had any correspondence about ( this action? — No;' nothing to speak of. I , wrote to Captain Seddon telling him I would give evidence if it would do him , any/ good. TrT Alfred M'Narn, sawmiller, Westport, said he was a member of the Seventh Contingent. He was in the main body under Lieutenant Whitely. From the point of retirement to the spruit they went at a good walking pace all the way. The rearguard was about 400 yards behind during the retirement. Captain Seddon was with the main body all the time. >rßyr By Mr "Taylor: Witness did not gallop for miles towards the spruit in company with • Trooper Robert Dunn. " James Henry Carter, maltster, Picton, said/* he was a member of the Nelson Squadron of the Seventh Contingent. He was captured by the Boers alonsr with Recce and others. The evidence of the .witness corroborated that given by Recce. Mr Taylor: To whom did you talk to in.* Wellington about this matter? — Witness: I have talked with several people about it. You were with Troopers Ireland and Coleman in Wellington yesterday, and somebody else? — Yes ; with those two men and a man named Keddell. In conversation with them did you use these words, " They will have to be pretty shrewd to make me say more than I want to"? — To my knowledge I did not use those words. Did you use words of the same nature? — Not to my knowledge. Major-general Babington, the next witness, said he was in the Boer campaign for nearly two years. He had read the evid«noe of Quintal anct Saxby_in thi6 case. If witness had been in Captain Seddon's position on the day of Blessbok Spruit he would havo told the scouts to retire alto- \ gether. Captain Seddon had 130 men, and there were 200 men against him, and, man for man, those men were better tha-n Captain Seddon's men. The more men sent >

out the more difficult it was to get back under the conditions on this day. A rearguard action was the approved method of retirement. In fighting a rearguard action the officer commanding would make the men .nearest ttie enemy just strong enough to hold them. The whole object was to retire, consistent with the necessary support to the rearguard. The greater the distance between the— rearguard and the main body the better. The main body had to clear the way for the retirement of the rearguard. The whole of the fighting fell on the rear party and flankers. Thero was not much fighting done by the main body. If the main body came to a drift, as they did in this case, it would be the duty of the main body to occupy the drift and so protect the rearguard. After reading the evidence, and assuming it true, he did not see what Captain Seddon could have done more than what he actually did. A rearguard action was the most difficult thing to fight in the world, and it was extraordinary that so few men were lost in this action. Mr Taylor: If only 42 men were engaged the action would be more creditable than if 126 men were engaged ? — Witness : Yes, of course it would be; but the two officers I have named aay there were 120 men. Mr Taylor said he would prove that only 42 men fought that action. He would also show that the supports sent back for help. He had the • messages that were sent. Major-general Babington, in reply to Mr Taylor, said that if Lieutenant Dillon had sent in three or four messages for assistance he would have told the lieutenant to fall back. Looking at the evidence, and the retirement with practically no loss, he thought he would have done wrong if he had done anything else than Captain Seddon did. Harry Stewart Robinson said he was sergeant in the Seventh Contingent, and took part in the Blessbok Spruit affair. He was with the Wellington squad, under Lieutenant Cameron. The retirement to the spruit was made in an orderly manner, and at a walking pace. Dr Findlay: Had you the pleasure of a visit from. Mr Taylor? — Witness: I think he came to see me twice. Did he speak of the Blessbok Spruit affair? — Yes. Did he ask you the incidents of the day? — Yos. Did you tell Mr Taylor anything 1 with regard to Ca.ptain Seddon? — I told him he« was making a great mistake in his charge, of cowardice, and he said he did not accuse Captain Seddon of cowardice. Did he say he had accused Captain Seddon of galloping away when his scouts asked him for support? — I do not remember that. Mr Taylor: Did I tell you I had been forced into this action? — Witness: Yes; you said so. Did I say I believed it was a purely political action? — I think I suggested that. Did you say that if called you would testify to Captain Seddon's incompetence but not to oowardiee? — No; I did not say that. I am not a military critic. On the question of cowardice, I told you distinctly '. you were wrong. What did you say obout his incom-pe-tency? — I said that if Mr Taylor had brought a charge of incompeteney against > Captain Seddon, he micht have had a

better chance, but on the charge of cowardice he had not a leg to stand on. Further cross-examined, witness did not say to anyone that it was heart-breaking to have to lie at a certain point and not help the scouts. He never heard anything of the scouts sending in a message. Richard Ireland, snearer, Blenheim, also gave evidence. , At this stage further hearing was adjourned until Friday morning. Dr Findlay intimated - that he would probably conclude his case on Friday night. Colonel Porter has been subpoenaed by Mr Taylor. Captain Seddon's evidence will be taken to-morrow.