OTAGO DEPUTATIONS. THE UNIVERSITY ENDOWMENT FUND.

Otago Witness, Issue 2578, 12 August 1903, Page 54

OTAGO DEPUTATIONS. THE UNIVERSITY ENDOWMENT FUND.

THE PREMIER WILL PROMISE NOTHING.

(Feoh Ocr Own Cohhespoxdest.)

WELLINGTON, August -10,

The Premier, who must be a very busy man just now, spent the afternoon with Otago deputations.

Mr J. A. Millar introduced a large deputation of Otago members, who were ds>sirou3 of obtaining *a grant for the Otago University. Mr Millar explained the position in regard to tho voluntary contributions that had been raised. The ActingPremier, he said, had last year indirectly promised a pound for pound subsidy, the intention being to raise, with the Government subsidy, a sum of £30,000, so that the existing de-bb could be paid off and the Medical School could b& placed in a satisfactory position. Since- then there had been raised a sum of £12,455, including £2000 promised on certain conditions by Mr Wolf Harris, of London. The object of the deputation, he explained, was to get a Government subsidy of pound for pound on the whole amount raised, so that the University could get out of debt.

Mr James Allen cxplaineo tb© details in regard to tho financial position of th& University. The effort made last year was such as enabled tten to just pay their way. They found, however, that there was no possibility of development, and they^h*d a large technical school, tha most important in the colony — viz., tlie, Medical School— to provide for. That school needed development, but they found themselves unable to do certain necessary things to put the school in a position to mset the requirements of Ihe day. An inquiry held disclosed tho fact that it was absolutely essential to the future success of tho school that it should be further developed. It was especially necessary that they should have a new professor of physiology and further lecturers on other subjects, as well as » new building for a physiological laboratory. Mr Harris had made a stipulation that hU £2000 was to be given if the improvements were made in the Medical School at once. He would no doubt be induced to waive that special condition for a time. Meanwhile they were hopeful that the local contributions would b9 increased to £15,000.- This, with a Government subsidy of pennd for pound, would give them £30,000. Their debenture debt was £16,000. This they hoped to pay as soon as it was due, and with the remainder of the money they could effect the other improvements .suggested. He pointed out that- a large number of colonial youths had gone through tho school with credit to themselves, the University, and the colony. This state of affairs, however, could not ba continued \inleos improvements wore made. Their endowments provided a falling revenue from year to year. On the Museum endowment, which was rclet laat year, there was now a loss of £150 a year. Out of the revenue from this endowment they had the Museum to keep up. Th&y would now lose £200 a year on the Museum. From the Barowcod and Mararoa leases they now got a revenue of £3000, but these {c'A in soon, and he feared that in these* cases thci-o would also be a lorn of Tevenue. Under these circumstances they had to look to local aid and aid from Parliament to help the Univeisity. He assured the Premier that no effort would be spared to increase the local donations. If the Government would give them a pound for pound subsidy this would help to spur them up.

Mr Sidey said they had mac'.p special efforts in the direction of retrenchment, and had practically cut away the La^ School to be able- to carry on. He also pointed out that the buildings had been allowed to get out of repair, and that money was required for this purpose. Their retrenchment effort had, however, been nullified by this new loss in connection with the Museum reserve. He urged the Government to grant a subsidy on the ground that the Medical School was a colonial institution, and that it was absolutely necessary to keep it abreast of the times.

Mr James Allen added that he hoped the Government would give the usual £250 a year extra grant to the Mining School. They had been relying upon getting- this, otherwise their finances would go that much to the bad.

The Right Hon. Mr Seddon, im reply, said that, financia'ly, their position seemed to be far from satisfactory, and their University was not an exception. They seemed to have- a policy of g&tting into debt. At a recent meeting here it- was urged that in a, short time there would not be money to pay the salary of a certain professor, aaadthe answer was, "Oh, never mind; we can go to the Government for It." Well, this policy of getting into debt and going to the Government had to come to an end some lime. That- was a condition of things that should not obtain with any institution or local authority in, the colony. Each had a responsibility, and eae'i should contract its affairs so as to keep out of debt and be able to meet its obligations. It was all very well to come to him and say they wanted £30,000 and to ask him to contribute £15,000, but what about the colony's making arrangements for its own obligations in that respect? If a grant were given to ono it would be necessary to give it to the othe-rs. He was surprised that they bad got so far back, «nd he would like to have some explanation of the £16,000 loan.

Mr Allen said that was front an old loan, before there had been any grant from tho Crown.

Mr Seddon : At all eve-nts it is a standing debt. How long is it for?

Mr Allen said it had been renewed from time to time.

Mr Sidey said the shrinkage in rents alone was sufficient to account for tlie loan. It would not fall in for a year or two.

Mr Seddon said he was happy to hear that, because it removed Jus anxiety. What they were evidently driving at was that, if they paid off this loan, they would have the interest for their ordinary requirements. He asked what interest was being paid. Mr Allen: Four and a-half per cent.

Mr Seddon ssid that was very reasonable interest, and they could not do better than keep "the loan where it was. He then came

to the question of going to the bad to the extent of £150 a year. How long had that been going on?

Mr Allen: For three or four years, but wo stopped it last year. We retrenched six or sesren years ago, and again last- year. We have now retrenched- to the uttermost farthing. The £150 a year loss had been stopped till now, when it was once more in evidence through their rents going down again.

Mr Seddon, speaking in respect of the rc3erves. said they did not find, in dealing with theic Crown lands, that there was any large shrinkage — in fact, there was- an increase. He asked if the shrinkage in this case was from the fact that they could not give the same tenure as tlie Crown.

Mr Allen : No ; it is purely pastoral country, and the rent 3 have fallen through the prevalence of rabbits and other troubles.

Mr Seddon : Would there be any improvement if the Government were to administer those reserves?

Mr Allen faid it was a big question. Speaking for himself, he would be willing to hand over the whole of the reserves if the Government would give them sufficient revenue to carry on the University and improve it from time to time.

Mr S&ddcn raid he would like a. return of the valuo of the reserves aud of the re-venue they were bringing in ; then he would see what -the opinion of 'the La.r.ds De-partraent w!V3 about them. Probably, if they were treated under rhe Land lor Settlements Acr. a valuo assessed and agreed upon, and 1 handed over to the Crown, the money* could be put siway for all time and a stated rate of interest given to the University. To have their finance up jet. in this way was hardly anticipated. On the contrary.. it was thought that the endowments would increase in value. Hs did not with to interfere with the reserves or to take from those institutions that which far-seeing statesmen in the past had given them, but if an arrangement could be entered into under which they might be relieved of the land altogether, and if the funds derived from this- were so tied up as to be applied only to the University, it would place it in a. sound position, because then they would know what they were actually going to receive. It wa? impossible for him to say more than he had done. He would place their representations before the Cabinet, and ask that. Ministers Ehould give them their fullest consideration. With respect to grants such as those offered by Mr Hair is, he liked to encourage them, espscially for such an object as this; and he hoped tho time would come when they would rot need to send their medical students Horn? to complete their education. In respect to the large sum they had asked for. he could not hold out much hope of that this year.

Mr Allen : Could it not be spread over a number c£ years? Mr Seddon made no promise in this direction. He said the whole question was one of policy. If the principle of giving these grants was to be applied to their University ib mxvst be applied to all. Tlimi another question might arise: Supposing someone made a very generous gift? The colony could not very well give pound for pound--on thai : therefore lie had to . b9 careful. He could not say anything in reeard to tho indirect promise made by "nis eou6a{»Uf> last session. In regard to the Mining School, he would be guided very largely by what the Minister of Mines haxl to say. He, however, did not think this was an occasion, considering their principal position, on which they should be put in any worse position than they now were.

THE OTAGO GIRLS' HIGH SCHOOL.

The deputation .then approached Mr Seddon in respect to a grant for the re. building of tha Otago GirK' Hi^'a School.

The Rev. P. B. Frasor (a member of the High School Board of Governors) explained tl»p position. He said the present Girls' Hiah School had done duty for 40 years, and required to be rebuilt. Apart from the question of size, it had served its time. In matters of lighting, accommodation, and general arrangements it was entirely out of date. Owing to the liberality of the Government in meeting the board recently in regard to the £6 capitation for free education, the attendance at the schools had largely increased, and by next year it would probably be doubled. Formerly the attendance at the Girls' School was 130, and at the Boys' School 160. Now the numbers were 200 and 300 respectively. In the course of another year they believed there 'would be bOO 700 atcending the schools. The Girls' School ehould be put on tho same footing in regard to equipment as the Boys' ; indeed, there was the more necessity for this in the Girls' School, because in regard to such schools there was competition that did not exist in regard to the Boys' High Schools. To erect a suitable new school they would require £12,000, and to change the present building- into a modern school would require -/n expenditure of £7000. That, however, meant that the present boarding school would have to be made portion of the day school, and £300 would bo needed for a now boarding establishment; so that £10,000 would be required to bring the old school up to date. The present Boys' High School was valued at £16,000, and the Girls' High School at only £5500.

The Right Hon. Mr Seddon said the modesty of the deputation was commendable, seeing that they wanted only a matter of £42, 000.— (Laughter.) It was enough to cause one to wonder what was coming nexr.

The Hon. Mr Bolt: Nothing more

Mr Seddon said he was afraid tins was not the only deputation that would come to him for money this session. The provision for education would, however, be greater than ever in the history of the colony for higher, secondary, and technical education. It was the desire of the Government to do justice tc these great subjects in every part of the colony. In regard to the High School Governors of Dunedin, he was not favourably impressed, because they had not met the Government in re=pecc to these free scholarships. Mr Fraser: Wo accepted your conditions in their entirety. At present we ire giving free education to M pupils. Mr Seddon: In that cate it strengthens your claim on tho Government for assistance. On the other hand, what about th& admission to the High School? Mr Fraser : There arc only the limits imposed by the Education Department. We wished to make it absolutely free, but the department said only those who had passed i the Sixth Standard at 13 years of age were

to bo admitted. He wished it to be absolutely free to those who had passed the Sixth Standard. " Itfr Sa-cklon : lam alluding to the others-— the paying pupils, who are occupying space in the buildings though they have not yefc passed the Sixth Standard. Mr Fraiser: As far as I know there are not any. ' Mr Maeandrew: With tliree or four exceptions, they are all equal to the Sixth Standard.

Mr Seddon: That information is very satisfactory. Are there any who come from long distances from places where iiiere a» district high schools? Mr Fraser: No, except from Naseby, where there is only a makeshift district higb school.

Mr Seddon : That also is satisfactory, becauee we are endeavouring to meet th« demand for secondary education by establishing district high schools. The nexfe question is the question of ways and means. What is your present financial position? Mr Maeandrew: W« owe £3500 on d&* bantur-es. They are 10 years' debentures^ of which about seven years have run. They bear interest at 4£ per cent. In- regard to our ordinary- financial position, we. are just paying our way. Mr Seddon: What is the capital valuft of the endowments?

Mr Macandre-w : I couid hardly tell yow off-hand. There are about 82,000 acres of land, but the greater portion of it is pastoral land of very little value — from. 5s to 10s per acre. The rentals are £2091 per annum, at present. x Mr Seddon: "What is your total cost per pupil? Mr Macandrcw: About £15. Mr Seddon : That is very low compared with other places.

Mr Frasor: That is owing to tho number attending.

Mr Seddon: A considerable number of the parents who are in a good position pay the full fees of £10, and on these yon loe» £5 a. he?d?

Mr Maeandrew : Yes-. I may say we hava always exercised the strictest economy in. the way of salaries and management.

Mr Soddon said tho matter of payment by parents who could afford it was very important. It was one of those questions ths6 he hoped they would be dealing with ,thi« session. The time had arrived when Parliament should deal with tlie question on such lines that there would ba fair pky and equal opportunity given in respect to tho 53 large sums that were received front endowments. Ho understood there vrvro only 47 free pupils; therefore on the great majority th.&y were losing £5 a hemdv or, in other words, there were some 25 receiving the advantage of this £5 a head from tho reserves.

Mr Maeandrew: I do not say the parent* would be in a position to pay the £15. Tl»» great majority of them pay the £10 with' a struggle.^ r Mi- Seddon said that faced the question. that obtained largely in respect to tho secondary schools. For years other people who could not afford to send their- children had been deprived of the benefits it -wa». intended should be givon "them in connection with these reserves &et apart . for' soeondary education. The Government was now cpreading secondary education over a wider surface than had hitherto obtained-. The only question was whether they, could' not spread it over a still wider surface. In regard to thi3 application, if an -effort' were made in the direction of selF-help ib would strengthen his hands In dealing with it. Just at present things were pretty clososhaved, and the Hou?e would be very careful about what it would do in this respect. At the present time the applications that had been sent in would take about £50,000 foi the high schools and technical school?. How far and on what principle the grants would be made would be a matter for the Houso to determine. He would bo quite prepared to lay the matters bofore th» Cabinet, and as far as he could, within reasonable limits, to h&lp th^jn to get oveF their difficulties.