ACCEPTANCE OF THE CALL TO ST. JOHN'S, WELLINGTON.

Otago Witness, Issue 2572, 1 July 1903, Page 16

ACCEPTANCE OF THE CALL TO ST. JOHN'S, WELLINGTON.

THE DISCUSSION IN THE PRESBYTERY.

A pro re tiata meeting of the Dunedin Presbytery was held in the Hall of First Churob, oil Wednesday morning to de-al with

the call sent forward by St. John's Church, Wellington, to the Rev. James Gibb, D.D., of First Church. Tho Rev. J. U. Spenca presided, and" there were present the Revs. Dr Watt, Dr Waddell, Dr Nicolson, W. Hewitson, W. Will, A. Finlayson, D. Borrie, J. M. M'Kerrow, E. C. Tennent, I. K. M'lntyre, .1. Chisliolm, L. Thomson, R. R. M. Sutherland, W. Scorgie, D. Dutton, R. Mackie, A. Cameron, J. Christio, and A. Groig (ministers) ; Messrs A. C. Bpgg, T. H. Dick, J. T. Johnston, D. Hutton, G. Reid, H. Wise, and W. Leslio (elders).

Mr J. G. W. Aitken, M.H.R., Mr D. Allan, and Mr Morice, commissioners from, St. John's Church, Wellington, waited on the presbytery in support of the call, while First Church was represented by Messrs W. H. Adams, D. Barron, R. Crawford, J. L. Salmond, J. Armstrong, E. Cameron, A. Struthers, T. Scott, J. Walker, and P. Dick.

The Rev. A. Finlayson read the call from Wellington, and the presbytery agreed to hear the commissioners.

Mr Aitken, after apologising for the absence of the Roy. Mr Elliott and Me. M'Dougall, who wore aUo appointed to como to the Dunedin Presbytery and preach thacause of St. John's Church, said they all recognised that Dunedin was tho Presbyterian capital of New Zealand, and it was with no little feeling of regret, from one point of view, that the deputation asked the Presbytery of Dunedin and the people of First Church to allow Dr Gibb, whose fame had gone forth throughout tho length and breadth of this colony, and also tha neighbouring colonies and the Homeland, to go to Wellington to tako up a position there, whore the atmosphere was entirely different, and where Presbyterianism did not hold the same place as it did here. While Dunedin was the Presbyterian capital of Now Zealand, Wellington was tho political capital of the colony, and if there waa anything that required to be influenced for good it was the political lifo of New Zealand. — (Applause.) He maintained that Dr Gibb'9 influence would be greater in Wellington, and would permeate a clas3 that ife did not permeate to the same extent in this city. If Dr Gibb went to Wellington he , would influence hundreds of lives that no other man could influence to the same extent and in tho same way. They had in the City of Wellington a very largo proportion of young men who were shifted from different parts of the colony to head offices there. They were away from their homes, and were surrounded by influences that wore calculated to do them a great deal of harm. He (Mr Aitken) felt convinced that if they had a strong, powerful man to apeak to those young men from tho pulpifc of St. John's the influence upon them would be for their eternal good, and might have the effect of saving many fxom going down to destruction. What they wanted in tha pulpit of St. John's was a prophet, and the voice of the proohet they reo.uired was that of Dr Gibb. They had in the congregation of St. John's a very largo field of labour. If Dr Gibb would only see his way to accept the call to St. John's they had there working people who would help to Lighten his labour, and who would be ready

to respond to any call he might make upon them at any time.

Mr Allan said that when they were placed in their present position they looked all round the colony to see if there was one to Bu.it them. Many -said "Go beyond the colony," ■ but they decided to see wha<t was in the colony before going elsewhere. They started at the North Cape, and went through the colony until they came to Dunedin, where they found there was one who would jusfc suit their case exactly. Dr Gibb was their first choice, and they hrd pever wavered one iota from that view. He believed, after all was said and done, they had a large 6phere for Dr Gibb In-

Mr Horiee- said that th© younger people of St. "JohWs had passed a motion, but •unfortunately they hid forgotten fo give it to him. He understood, hojvever, that they were going to give Dr Gibb a vary hearty trelcome». The 'Sunday school teachers ana young men's and women's Bible classes were all unanimous in asking Dr Gibb to come to Wellington.

The presbytery then agreed to hear the •representatives from ' First Church.

The Rev. D. Dufton explained that last evening', at. the request of Dr Gibb, he presided over a meeting of the First Church congregation. There was a very large meeting of the congregation, and a thoroughly representative meeting in every way. The feeling of the meeting was one of Badness, but it was marked by a deep Christian spirit. The. feeling of the members of First 'Church as "expressed at the meeting was that if the- needs of Wellington were so great, and if Dr Gibb himself had: come to Tealise that it was his duty to go, they felt that they could not stand in the way, no matter how great their pain and disappointment wotald be at losing their pastor. Mr W. H. Adams, the first speaker, said that the Wellington representatives need ha,ve no fear about Dr Gibb declining the call on account of the great amount of' work he would be called on to perform there. The reason why First Church had not risen to a man and opposed Dr Gibb'a going was because they felt that he had had far too much work to do. He did not know his own strength. The arguments brought forward by the Wellington deputation did not weigh one little bdt in their minds. They saw in Dr Gibb the head of one of the most successful churches in New Zealand — one which at present had an increasing membership. Dr Gibb was more popular to-day than ever in the history of the church. There was no doubt that there was a bitter feeling in the minds of a large section of the First Church congregation at the present moment, but the office-bearers could not stand up and oppose Dr Gibb's going, for thoy felt that in the interests of the Church generally they_ would not be doing right at this stage in opposing his going. In conclusion, Mr Adams mentioned the fact that Dr T3ibb would receive £100 a year less stipend if he went to Wellington.'

Mr T. Scott (Mayor) said that there was no doubt that the feeling of the congregation was adverse to Dr Gibb going, and it was -only the fact that their pastor felt that it would be to- his own benefit to accept the tall that decided the vote of the congregation last evening.

Mr D. Gi Ford 'expressed the opinion that whatever decision Dr Gibb made it would be the right one, but as an office-bearer of First Church he certainly protested against the call. Tlioee men who bad first of all approached Dr Gibb had taken on themselves a very serious responsibility, for which they would yet have to give an account. Dr Gibb was being taken from First Church in the heydey of his power and usefulness, and a man occupying his position should not lightly be translated from one church to another. Every argument brought forward in favour of Dr Gibb going to Wellington applied with equal force to his remaining in Dunedin. Mr Ford also expressed the opinion tha.t instead of Dr Gibb'fi labours being lightened by his removal to Wellington that they would be increased.

Mr J. Armstrong said that the hope had been expressed by a number of the officebearers and members of the church that Dr Gibb might be 6topped from going to Wellington. After what had been said he fearful that that was impossible, and it was a mattei that Dr Gibb himself must decide. It was pretty nearly the unanimous wish of Ihe congregation that Dr Gibb should stay, but if he had decided to go the congregation would endeavour to reconcile themselves to their loss and wish him Cod speed.

The Moderator a&ked if there were mv others desiring to speak, but Dr Gibb asked to be spared, and Mr Aitken was called on for his reply.

Mr Aitken said that something had been Stated about Dr Gibb's influence v.-ith tho young men of Dunedin, but per head of the population there Was nothing like the number of young men in Dunediu that th^io were in Wellington, and the call to St. John's was a unanimous one, and when St. John's made up its mind on a matter victory was assured. — (Laughter.)

Dr Gibb said the occasion was one, as the presbytery could well understand, of deep feeling, amounting to positive distress on his part. When, two or three weeke ago, some hitch occurred in the proceedings in Wellington, ho had felt light-hearted, for lie felt as if a way was about to be opened up to relieve him of the responsibility of decision in the matter. That period of relief, however, very soon came to an end. He found that tho call had been not only unanimous, but very largely signed, and therefore the responsibility of decision came back upon him, and rested on him that day. He knew the strength of the wish in First Church that he should keen him in ihe pastorate here. He admitted that in the course of the toilsome years he had been in First Church he liad worked up to his full strength, and beyond it, and he had felt as if it would be a relief if another suitable sphere were to open. When that sphere opened there was at once a revulsion of feeling, and all the claims of First Church strained at his heart. It was not as if his congi elation were not prosperous, ar.d of late the measure of prosperity had been very marked. Since he cam© to Fir»t Hunch th« mrnbership had risen from 432 to 780. and he found they had raised in money during hi* ministry upward* of £45 000, of which £11,000 or £12.000 had boc-n de\oted to altruistic purposes other than the maintenance of the ordinancp<? and the repairs of structures and so on. Thon there was much in tbp community by which he felt tiod. All hi" 5 relations with hi" brethren of tho prosbvtorv had bp&n of a cordial and an afFccticnat" character nrul probably tlie-rn wa c no prp«-bvtprv i' 1 "\"<nv Zpaland in iwhicli he woiiM find <-nrh an ablp backing as in the I'rcsbj-tcry ol Dunedin. Members

could thus easily understand that to one who had been so immersed in the life of the community as he had been a parting from Dunedin was most painful. One cf the strongest appeals which had been made to his feelings was the appeal of the 6ick people. He knew that he had but to lift his little finger to the congregation, and many more besides the congregation, when they would have reason as one man to protest against his leaving for Wellington. Why •had he not done so? He had listened to members of his Deacons' Court with whom he had discussed the question, but he could honestly say that he was not persuaded in this matter by argument. For every argument advanced in favour of his going to Wellington he could bring an argument of equal strength in favour of his staying in Dunedin. He had felt— and he supposed it was God, — he had felt as if the pressure of an Unseen hand were upon him in this matter. He had striven against it, and he would have been tempted to doubt Ins own consciousness of his pressure and the sincerity of his convictions if , the material advantages involved were even equal to those he possessed in Dunedin. There was a reduction in stipend, and there were other considerations which he need not enter into. Inasmuch, as that as far ac the material advantages were concerned, he was called upon to make a sacrifice, he was unable to doubt the reality of the pressure he had felt upon him. He felt as if he dared not say no, and if the presbytery put the call into his hands he would accept it. Dr Gibb concluded by expressing his sense of the kindness and esteem he had received from his brethren in the presbytery. It would be a very sore thing for him to have to go away and leave those who for 16 long years he had worked with co harmoniously. — (Applause.)

The Rev. James Chisholm, at the request of the Moderator, then engaged in prayer.

The Rev. A. Findlayson moved— " That the translation is expedient, and that the call be now placed into Dr Gibb's hands." In doing so, he said there were three elements that the presbytery had to consider in disposing of this question — (1) The call from St. John's was hearty and unanimous; (2) the mind of First Church was acquiescent though unwilling ; (3) Dr Gibb's own word that he was willing to go provided the presbytery put the call into his hands. There were orher snecial considerations besides these. Dr Gibb had proved himself in Dunedin an eminent man as a preacher, as a pastor, as a leader of the Church, and as a leader in social movements for the good of the Church and the people. Wellington was the capital of New Zealand, and the influence that such a man as Dr Gibb would have in Wellington would certainly not be less than he had~ln Dnnedm. The position he would occupy would be a commanding one. He (Mr Finlayson) felt that a minister should not spend his lifetime in one position. — (Applause.) Dr Gibb explained that he understood Dr Waddell had prepared a resolution, and perhaps Mr Finlayson would allow it to bo substituted for the one he had moved.

Dr Wa-ddell, who wa« received with a round of applause, said it was not often he intruded 4iimself on the presbytery, and the purpose of his presence there that day caused him deep a,nd profound regret. Of course, tho natural question was, Ought Dr Gibb to go? He (Dr Waddell) had said at once he would be a great fool if he did not go. That was perhaps a rather exaggerated way of putting the tiling, but it expressed his conviction then and expressed it now. A man had sometimes to take his feelings by tho throat and strike them down, so that his reason and sense of conscience might prevail. Ho had never known an occasion before when that was so necessary as at present. All his feelings cried out against the course his reason and his conscience should take. He was glad to say that he had been able to suppress his feelings so far as to acquiesce in the request preferred that day by the delegates from St. John's. He thought it desirable for Dr Gibb's own sake that he should go. He had already served First Church for 17 yoars, and those ministers who had been in Dunedin knew the difficulties connected with a church like First Church. Personally he thought it was a blunder to plant laigo churches in a city unless they were to adopt the cathedral system and attach several ministers to one church. The work of churches like First and Knox was too much for one minister to undertake successfully. If Dr Gibb stayed here it would mean an immense strain on Ins powers and resources, and the outcome would be- in inevitable break-up. Hp hoped his friends m First Church would forgive him for not being more sympathetic towards them. He sympatliued very deeply with them in all the ciicuinstances, but he looked on the question from thp- higher standpoint of the good of the Church. It would be easier to fill First Church than St. John's; a mistake in regard to First Church could be overcome, but a mistake m regard to the Wellington Church would be disastrous. Tho condition of the Church in Wellington required a strong man, and it was in the interests of the Church that lie should go to Wellington. Dr Waddell then moved the following resolution. — "Tho presbytery having heard Dr Gibb's statement that he has seriously, calmly, aud prayerfully considered in all aspects the question of his translation to Wellington, and has arrived at the conclusion that by the leading of Divine Piovidence he is directed to accept the call given -him by St. John's Church in that city, resolve that tho call be now put into his hands. They do so only because Dr Gibb's sense of duty in the matter is regarded as indicating what is the duty of the presbytery. They do it at the same time with unfeigned and profound regret that Dr Gibb's connection with the Dunedin Presbytery and with the Fir-t Church of Otago is about to be severed. The Presbytery desire to place on record their thankful appreciation of the distinguished service which Dr Gibb has rendered during the past 17 years to the cause of religion in this city, and throughout the length aud breadth of the southern branch of the Prtv>byteriau Church of New Zealand. His ministry has been eminently successful m relation to the supreme pndi for which the Christian minihtiy exists. He has snared neither time nor slicngth in the faithful discharge of the duties of his office. Ihe range of matt< r= reh h ':o.p, r cclesiabtical. and philanthropic to whi< Ii he has devoted himself has been very Wide. In labours he h<is been most abundant. As a preacher he has concentrated his full strength and talents to the work of proclaiming the Gospel to tho uncomerted and to tho woik of building uo in faith the people of the. Lord At a citizen he hab identified hnn-eli with cvpry pubhr mo\i«miiH to which lift could po-nbly render aid for the rel'giou-, moml, a"d educational benefit of tho community. He has ne\er feaied to utter all las rtund. With

tongue and pen alike he has boldly advocated whatever he believed to be true vjjd needful to be utt»red. While he has been ready to co-operate in every possible way •with other branches of the Church of Christ, ho has been in a very special manner a loyal son of tho Presbyterian Church. He has at all times stood forward to assert and defend her rights and privileges. Ho has been keenly sensitive to her honour and interests when others, consciously or unconsciously, have been inclined to ignore dr minimise those, he has courageously claimed for her the prestige and position to which she is entitled in this community. The Presbytery regret that in parting with Dr Gibb they lose one who has been wise in counsel, brotherly in spirit, persevering in action, and steadfast in friendship. They sincerely sympathise with the First Church congregation in losing the services of a pastor by whose ministry they have co greatly benefited, and to whom they are so d&eply attached. They pray that the Divine blessing may rest upon him in the work to which he is about to enter in another city, aud that he and Mrs Gibb and family may ever enjoy abundant prosperity and happiness. In loosing him from his present charge they would bid him an affectionate farewell, aud cordially unite in saying : ' Go, and the Lord go with thee.' " The Rev. Mr Finlayson thought that his motion should be- taken fiist.

Dr Gibb : Let them both be taken together. The Moderator then put Mr Finlayson's motion, which was unanimously agreed to.

The Rev. J. M. M'Kerrow made a feeling speech in seconding the motion. In deference to the wish of Dr Gibb, the motion was put to the presbytery at this :-ta.ge and carried. The Rev. W. Hewitson engaged in prayer.

The Rev. Mr Finlayson intimated that Dr Gibb would be instructed to wait on the Presbytery of Wellington, and that First Church would be declared vacant on the Sabbath after his induction.

Dr Gibb remarked that he might not be settled in Wellington until the second week in August, and he thought that would be too long to keep First Church vacant. He would try, if possible, to arrange that his last Sunday in Dunedin should be on July 12, but it would depend on the arrangements he was able to make with the Kirk Session and Deacons' Court.

The Rev. D. Dutton moved— " That the Rev. W. Hewitson be appointed moderator of First Church."

The Rev. Mr Hewitson said he was reluctantly compelled to decline the position.

The Rey. Mr Dutton then substituted the name of Dr Watt, and the motion was carried.

The presbytery adjourned at 1.15 p.m.