VISIT OF A LABOUR LEADER.

Otago Witness, Issue 2524, 30 July 1902, Page 13

VISIT OF A LABOUR LEADER.

THE APOSTLE OF COLLECTIVISM.

Mr Tom Mann, tho English Labour leader, arrived in Dunedin by tho north exDress on Monday, 21st. He was met on the platform by Mr W. Belcher and Mr W. Hood, who conducted him to the Provincial Hotel, where he will stay during his visit to Dunedin. Here he was welcomed by members of the Workers' Political Committee and the Trades and Labour Council.

Mr Mann was good enough to submit to a short interview by one of our reporters, and "in reply to a query a« to th© object of hie visit, briefly remarked that he was here for th© ptirpose of gaining experience. The conversation which followed is reproduced as nearly ac possible: —

You are ci edited with suggesting, Mr Mann, that the colonial trades unionists lack the aggressiveness of those at Home? " Well, that is hardly the way I put it. What I eaid in effect was: that in consequence of the- Conciliation and Arbitration Act — the principle of which I entirely approve — I was quite satisfied there was a degree of flabbdness characterising the general trade unionist movement of the colony. It appears to me to have been deprived of a large share of the virility that ought to characterise it. I am not disposed to say it is altogether wrong, but it is one of the effects of the operation of the act. The reason I make a point of it ia that I am expected by my friends at Home to let them know what value I attach to the act and its working here. But any criticism I may offer concerning the unsatisfactory side of trades unionism as a consequence of the act does not carry with it a condemnation of the act."

Then do you conclude that the operation of the act tends to undermine" the solidity of unionism? "That may be to some extent. I have made it my business to try and inquire very carefully. There is much dissatisfaction at the conditions obtaining in certain quarters, and there have been effective manifestations of dissatisfaction mainly because of the existence of the act. One of the chief points in connection with this appears to me to be that the bulk of the trades unionists now look on a grievance chiefly as a legal matter, and therefore throw the entire responsibility of all their business on their officers in conducting the cases. There is not the rank and file heartiness there ought to be." Is it possible that the fact that the intensity of poverty is greater at Home than here would result in trades unionism pushing forward its demands more strenuously. "I have always been connected with the movement, and I have never failed to urge the necessity for each member to be genelally helpful by per=onally taking part in tho entire work of organisation, which includes ventilation of grievances and getting rectification therefor. Instead of finding that poloiy emphasised in tho colony, the opposite effect prevails, and I find that it i« traceable to the existence of the act. I am not prepared to say solely, for some of it may be due to the lesser intensity of hardship you mention. I know a case where even the act is being evaded openly in Wellington, and where the men themselves acquiesce in it without complaining, as they would have done under the old conditions, and it is really becau-e they are fearful of tho consequence?." What lines do you iulend to take in your address on Thur-day?

"Whatever else I may do. I intend to slow what question* are covered by the Labour problem, whie'i, of course, will include; wealth, production, and distribution. I shall enchavour to thow what means arc to be used to bring about rectification of existing social difficulties in the main centres of industry— Europe, especially, and America equally so. This will n€ce*"-itato reference to show the purpose trades unionism has scried and is serving: what it- limitations are and what mii-t supersede it, or what mu'-t scrvp as the complement of the TiarloI'nion mcuempnt, in order that th'- work<i may obtain his lightful position. The rea-on I shall deal with the mam crntrch of m dustry is L<"cauHo> I nre-ume the measures which have -crved and arc -urving there will b^ of -erv ice here."'

Do you not think th.it tl,f indu-hial eon ditioiii of tliis (ounnv nin-t alwav-, be diffeient from "ho-e jm-p-. ailing in a count! y like England 7 " Oh, no. London i- the vuaiket for the producers of the woiid. Do not think your comparative isolation or your rcbtnely good condition now will admit of jour e-r aping from the capitalistic domination exi-ting in other part* of the world My point Mil 1 . h<that the colony, whether it i- roii'i ions of .f or not. will be eo\eu-d in the fu'nve more completely by the woiid'-. jinbistiietl and financial movements, and there i~ no escape from being part anil parcel of the vvoikN industrial producers. The effect-, v\ill be the same here a-, they me in any of the European and American citie«. I shall endeavour to hhow what unionism ha= done toward-, lCbisting the domination. of <apitalism and to show al<-o its limitations, and to <-Ijow that collectivism to prevail. I believe in rollec tivi«n being hi ought about through the agency of Governmental machinery, which first needs to be democratised. In my opinion your most influential men are not coit-ciouh where the dividing line come- in, and what stand they are to make. At present they are wobbling between democracy and plutocracy, unable to diffeienUaie between the two."

PeisonalU, Mr Mann is very pleasant to meet, and the iii-t impression the ptranger is likely to get is one of his thorough earnestness. His fluency of speech suggests at once the practised ppcaker and debater, and his wide experience on all aspects of the labour problem give him a justification for speaking with «ome degree of authority". Hjs lecture on Thursday night should nro\e unusually interesting,