PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH UNION.

Otago Witness, Issue 2332, 10 November 1898, Page 22

PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH UNION.

DISCUSSION IN THE SYNOD.

REPORT ON UXION. Tho Rev. J. Gibb brought up the report of the committee on. union, which contained the following clauses: — At its meeting in 1896 the synod adopted the basis of union by a very large majority, and ordered it to be sent down to presbyteries and sessions for their consideration. Last yeai it was reported to the synod that the presbyteries and sessions had, by a majority of 2 to 1, endorsed the basis ; and after fuither consideration the synod amended several of the articles, adopted the others as they stood, and, finally, by a majority of almost 2 to 1, " reappointsd the committee, and instiucted it to forward the basis as amended to the assembly of the Northern Church, and to report to the meeting of synod in March next." In order, however, that the Jubilee celebrations might not be marred by the discussion of any question on which differences of opinion exist, the committee deemed it expedient to advise the postponement of the further consideration of the union negotiations until tho present occasion. To this suggestion the Jubilee Synod unanimously agreed. It falls, therefore, to the committee now to roport that according to instructions, it sent on the articles of the basis as amended to tho Northern Assembly. It was reported to that body by its Union Committee that there was practical unanimity among the sessions and presbyteries of the church, in favour of tha basis as it had the year before been sent down to them. After consideration, tho assembly resolved to accept the synod's amendments of articles 2, 3, and. 6; but in view of the finding of its subordinate courts and for othei important reasons, tho assembly could not sco its way to accept the synod's amendments of articles 7, 9, and 11. Article 7, as adopted by the synod of 1896, and endorsed by large majorities of sessions and presbyteries, was as follows: — " That considering the difficulties attendant on an immediate unification of the financial methods hitherto in use, tho General Assembly shall at first recognise: — (1) The sustontation fund scheme and church extension fund as at present in operation in tho Church of Otago and Southland. (2) The church extension scheme (which is for tho double purpose of sustentation and extension) of the Northern Church as now administered; it being understood that the General Assembly shall address itself without delay to gradually effect a uniform scheme for tho support of the ministry aud church extension; and (3) Meanwhile these funds shall be administered separately by committees of the General Assembly of the United Crunch, in terms ol their respective regulations." Tho synod last year amended this article by tho addition to the second clause of the words : " And that no vital change shall be rnado in the sustentation fund of either church until a three-fifths majority of kirk sessions and presbyteries, within tho respective branches of tho United Church affected by the change, shall declare themselves in favour of the change," and by the addition to the third clause of the words: "And until the sustentation fund and church extension fund of the two churches bo amalgamated, the rules and regulations may be amended from time to time — those of the Church of Otago and Southland by a committee consisting of the whole membership of the synod, and those of the Church ot New Zealand by a committco consisting of the members of assembly representing congregations north of the Waitaki." The assembly disapproved of both these amendments, and instead of them adopted thess words (to follow tho third clause) : " And until the funds of tho two churches are amalgamated tho committee shall have power to amend tho regulations if necessary, subject to the approval of the General Assembly." Article 11, as presented to last synod, after endorsation by large majorities of presbyteries and sessions, read as follows: — " That while the appointment and removal of theological professors must remain with the Synod of Otago and Southland in terms of the act 1866; yet, inasmuch as such appointments and" removals arc of the highest importance to the whole church, it is necessary that the assembly and synod should act harmoniously in this matter, and that, therefore, prior to any appointment or removal being made by the synod, the mind of the General Assembly shall be ascertained." Tins was recast by last synod as follows: — " That the appointment and removal of theological professors shall remain with tho Synod of Otago and Southland, in terms of tho act of 1866; ' but no professor shall be appointed to, or removed from, or retained in his position against the express decision of the General Assembly." The Assembly disapproved of this change, and resolved to restore the original article, with the addition of the following words from the synod's amendment: — "And no professor shall be appointed to, or removed fiom, or retained in his position against the express decision of the General Assembly." Your committee, at several meetings held during the last 12 montli3, gave all these matters its most caieful and painstaking attention, and" after full deliberation, resolved to ask the synod to accept the amendments made by tha assembly in articles 7 and 9. For sufficient reason, however, the committee was unable \o accept the assembly's amendment of article 11, and now propose to the synod that the original form of the "article should be resumed. Tho committee, that is to say, recommends tho excision of the clause added by the assembly to the original article. Stiic'tly speaking, then, only Articles 7, 9, and 11 remain for the synod's consideration. But, inasmuch as the Presbytery of Mataura haa overtured the synod with respect

to the subject matter of article 3 (the ecclesiastical constitution of the United Church), praying for a representative assembly and an ecclesiastical synod, the committee propose to re-affirm article 3. The committee now asks the synod to do so, and to adopt articles 7. 9, and 11 in the form in which they are presented above. Practically, this is simply inviting the synod to adopt them in their original form, which was endorsed by the synod of 1896, by a large majority of sessions and presbyteries, by the assembly of the Northern Church, and by almost all the subordinate courts of that church. Tho committee is, moreover, of opinion that they will, in this form, prove much more workable and satisfactory than in that which the synod gave them 12 months ago. It needs to be added only that the assembly unanimously approved of the bill which, along with the basis, was sent to it for consideration. It is printed as an appendix to this report. All its provisions were adopted by the synod last year. The committee trusts that, by the blessing of God, its labours may be found to have brought the long-deferred union of Presbyterianism in New Zealand to the point of accomplishment, and that it will be authorised to take the next step necessary to effect this devoutly-to-be-wished-for consummation.

Mr Gibb, after the reading of the report, said it was with a deep sense of the seriousness of the occasion that he moved the reception of the report. At the synod they must take the irrevocable step of consummating union or absolutely ending tho negotiations. To him this movement seemed to be in accordance with the will of God. He (the soeaker) did not mean to suggest that the friends on the other side were not animated by a conviction that they were in the right; no doubt they had on both sides said hard things of each other. He trusted that the present debate would be, though animated, free fiom acrimony. He would try to set a good example, and would heartily Avithdraw the expression he had used at the Auckland Assembly, and which had evidently hurt the feelings of some of the members of synod. Ho did not propose to repeat the general arguments for union, and would only indicate for the benefit of new members of synod the line of reasoning its unionists had followed. He then specified briefly eleven arguments for union, and proceeded to say that the time for general argument had now gone by. The point now to be insisted on was that the synod, the presbyteries, and sessions had all by large majorities adopted the basis, and the synod could not draw back without dishonour. Tho Northern Church, it was said, had reiecled the basis. That was far from accurate. They had accepted nine out of the twelve articles just as "the synod had sent them or to them, and the three they had amended went only in the direction of the form the synod had originally given to them. The opponents of union, in aiming at the overthrow of the basis, were really seeking to destroy ixnion. They proposed impossible conditions — conditions which neither the Northern Church nor the unionists here jould entertain. Moreover, the anti-unionists had not once said they would go on with union even if their own conditions were accepted. There was no getting away from the fact that union must be accomplished now and on the basis, or never — never, at least, in the lifelime of present members of synod. He asked the .synod to go forward and complete tha work to which they had put their hand. There was nothing to fear from union. The cresent opponents were no -loyal sons of the Presbyterian Church to follow devious courses after the church had completed the negotiations. But even if they did, no real harm would come of their efforts ; and there was a great probability of great good as the result of the union of the two churches. What, he asked, was there in the present condition of the Otago Church that made them desirous of remaining as they were? Individual congregations might bo prosperous, but what might be called church feeling — sympathy with the work of the synod, enthusiasm for the church as a whole, v/as conspicuous by its absence. He instanced the lack of interest manifested by their people for the annual work of the synod ; even the Jubilee Synod, with the exception of tho meeting on Jubilee morning, had been very poorly attended by the public. The Free Church deputy spoke to empty benches ; the orphanage scheme had fallen flat; and the Jubilee fund for church extension was making very poor headway. If they failed in accomplishing union they would give the world another exhibition, he would not say of their imbecility, but of their impotence. They would have another cause for sinking of heart and a sense of shame. They would cover the Otago Church with ridicule. Dr Rainy, referring to the union between the JtYee Church and the U.P. Churches, had said that if they failed they would stand as specimens of everything that was provincial, of everything little and mean. Much more would that be true of the Otago Synod if it did not now go forward. But they would go forward, with courage and decision. They would forget their own church in zeal for the whole Piesbylerianism of New Zealand. They would go forward in a spirit of loyalty to the mind and will of the Lord and Head of the Church ; they would proceed with the work, praying that God would crown their labours with such success that there would soon be in New Zealand one strong, united, jubilant, victorious Presbyterian Church. Ko moved— " That the synod receive the report and uroceed to consider seriatim articles 3, 6, 9, and 11."— (Loud applause.) Tho Rev. Mr dimming, in seconding the motion, said that the Church of Otago Avas practically committed to carry out and accomplish union, and, therefore, they should do so in a brotherly spirit, trusting that the Head of the Church would in His nrovidoncc cause the drawbacks, which now appeared like mountains, to be but molehills in reality. The Rev. W. Bannerman read the following protest: — In my own name, and in the name of all adhering, I hereby protest that, while taking part in the discussion on the proposed union between the two Presbyterian Churches in New Zealand, we are not to be regarded as acknowledging the right of a majority to terminate the independent existence and government of this church, or to alter its constitutional doctrine, polity, and discipline, which the several members have pledged themselves to "assist, maintain, and defend " as the condition of their admission into office in this church.

The Rev. R. R. M. Sutherland moved— "That the synod, having given piolontred consideration to a basis of union with the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church of New Zealand, and taking into view the strong convictions of a large body in this chinch, finds that any basis, likely to be adopted muf-t include articles providing for a rep^enlative assemble the_ retention of the Olago Synod as au eclesiastical court, the control' for 'a time of their funds by the vespeelne churches as provided in the basis of last synod, together with provision for maintaining the historic doctrinal basis of this church on the lines of that likely to be adopted in the union of Ihe Free and United Presbyterian Churches in Southland, and the synod directs tho Union Committee to submit these proposals to the Northern Church with a view

to an ultimate union satisfactory to botitf^ churches." In speaking to the motion, he ' said his honest conviction was that union would not be just now a blessing to either church. So long as he continued to hold that' opinion, he could not become an active advocate for union, but if both the churches found a basis which he considered satisfactory, and which the churches with practical unanimity regarded as satisfactory, then he would no longer oppose union. The blind enthusiasm: and tho count of heads was on the side of the advocates of union, but the arguments were on the other side. Union between the two churches might be the good thing that the advocates of it wished them to believe, but it could only be that if it were on the right; lines. Now, he maintained that the right lines were the lines of his motion, and not the lines of the present basis. The lines -of his motion were the lines on which the synod started negotiations. Those lines were shunted in Christchurch, wth the consent of two representatives of that synod, on to new lines, and on to what he believed to be dangerous and bad lines ; and what they wanted to do now was to shunt them back again to the right lines of_ his^ motion. They had heard it said that this union was sought in the interests of Presbyterianism. But what would union on the proposed basis result in ? Tt would result in this : that when the assembly met in Wellington not 10 elders from Otago and Southland would be in that assembly. Was that Presbyterianism ? A represontative assembly he believed to be essential to the safety of the church and Presbyterianism. in this colony ; but if union were consummated on the present basis, the control of the church's affairs would fall into the bands of a few of what he might call the bishops of Presbyterian churches — the men who had large congregations and got big pay. The motion he had moved suggested the continuance of the Otago Synod as an ecclesiastical court; but on the proposed basis it would not be an ecclesiastical court in any true sense. All that the synod would have to do would be to look after a few properties, but it would have nothing to do with real church work and church matters. Ho maintained that the loss of their synod as a true church court would be an unspeakable loss to their church, and there would be no corresponding gain to the Northern Church. . Speaking on behalf of a large number of persons, he said that unless union went on the lines of the motion he had moved they would oppose it, and oppose it to the bitter end, so far as their constitutional rights as Presbyterians, and their rights as the free citizens of a free country, would allow. Mr Begg had nrach pleasure in seconding the Rev. Mr Sutherland's motion. Unless they had a perfect union it would be better if they had none. He held that there should be perfect unanimity, or that there should be at least, say, nine-tenths or thereabouts in agreement, or the chances were that it would not be a hearty union. He did not hold with those who favoured union for the sake of obtaining a larger or more imposing assembly. There were many elders of the assembly who would be unable to attend synods held in distant cities. They would be unable to afford the time, nob to speak of the expense, in journeying to and fro, and, in addition, there was the time occupied by synod, and he considered it would be a sad state of affairs to have a synod in which the eldership of the church was not represented. They had in Otago and Southland a very large territory, and, having workod well and the assemblies having been well attended, it would be a great pity to give up and amalgamate on the chance of something better coming of it. The Rev. J. Gibson Smith spoke in support of the motion.

The Rev. A. Greig also supported the motion. He stated that he had formerly opposed union, but he had come to the conclusion that it was right to support it, as the majority of the members of presbyteries and church sessions voted in favour of it every time the question came up for consideration. At this stage of the discussion the synod adjourned to meet again at 10 a.m. next day.

At Thursday evening's saderunt of the Presbyterian Synod the discussion on the question of union with the Northern Church was resumed.

The Rev. J. Gibb raised the question^ as to what time the discussion on his motion should close, and it was agreed to close the discussion at 9 o'clock. The motion moved by Mr Gibb was to the effect that the report on union bo received, and that articles 3, 7, 9, and 11 be considered seriatim. The Rev. W. Bannerman moved the following amendment: — "Receive the report, and consider the articles of the basis seriatim ; but in view of the strong convictions of a large body in this church, the synod declares that any basis satisfactory _to this church must include articles providing for a representative assembly, the retention of the Otago Synod as an ecclesiastical court, and the control for a time of their funds by the respective churches, as provided for by ihe basis as adopted by a majority vote in the synod of last year." In speaking to the amendment, Mr Bannerman said that to hare union on the proposed basis would be to convert the Supreme Court of the church into a secular institution, having nothing but secular work to attend to. This he could not consent to.

The Rev. J. Clarke seconded the amendment. He said before the discussion on this question was done, the anti-unionists would be the unionists and the Union Committee not those who submitted the proposed basis of union. He thought that the terms of the amendment that had been moved that night were reasonable and commendable to both churches as just and fair to all parties. The Rev. R. R. M. Sutherland, with the consent of the synod, withdrew the amendment moved by him on the previous night in favour of that moved by Mr Bannerman. — (A Voice : "If Mr Gibb withdraws 3iis motion we will get union right away." — Laughter.)

The Rev. D. Dutton said the synod were told that if union was consummated on the present basis all kinds of disasters would overtake the Presbyterian Church. It seemed to him that those who said that were afflicted with a kind of nightmare ; and that those disasters and horrors of which they spoke had no possible existence, and could have no possible existence but in a disordered imagination. The predictions that were made about the disasters that would overtake the church were not to be taken seriously. It had been said by those opposed to the proposed basis that the Union Committee was a parly .committee. — (Mr Bannerman: "So it is.") Mr Bannerman said so il was. He (the speaker) said such a statement was a reflection on the synod, who appointed the committee. The kind of committee his friends on the other side would like to set up would be like appointing officers of the French army to xorotect British interests in Fa&hoda.

The Rev. A. M. Finlayson said those who were regarded as anti-unionists were coming to the union side. Mr Bannerman's amendment was distinctly for union, and anyone voting for that could not consistently QDPoaa

union on those terms. Anti-unionism had almost vanished from the synod, and if Mr Bannerman's proposal was carried antiunionism would have vanished, and they jwould be as one man to go forward to union pn the lines as indicated in the amendment. Rev. Dr Waddell said he believed that a representative assembly would come on at a later stage after union was consummated, tout if the claim for an assembly were forced now it would imperil the whole question of union. What they had got to determine was not the relative merits of a synod and a representative assembly, but to determine livhether or not they would insist upon imperilling the whole question of union. Every vote for the amendment would be a nail in the coffin of union, and if the amendment was carried and union was not gone on with now on the basis drawn Tip it would result in the sterilisation of the church's ecclesiastical and 6piritual life. The Rev. J. M'Cosh Smith spoke in support of Mr Bannerman's amendment.

The Rev. Mr Gibb having replied, A vote was taken, 78 voting for the Rev. Mr Gibb's motion and 54- for the Rev. Mr Bannerman's amendment. The following is the division list: —

For Mr Gibb's motion (78). — Dunedin Presbytery—The Eevs. W. Will, Dr Watt, A. Greig, 7. Kirkland, Dr Waddell, D. Borrie, J. Gibb, A. Cameron, J. M. M'Kerrow, Dr Dunlop, J. M. Fraser, D. Button, A. Bon, I. Jolly, T. Paulin, W. Hewitson, E. C. Tennent; Clutha Presbytery— J. Chisholm, S. W. Currie, A. M. Dalryrnple, E. Fairmaid, J. Kilpatriek, J. A. Will, J. S. Eeid, J. A. Soniorvillo, W. H. Gray; Southland Presbytery — E. Ewan, J. Baird, W. White, A. Macdonald, J. Gibson Smith, E. H. Blair, W. G. M'Laren, W. W. Brown, Jas. Cumming, E. M'Cully ; Oamaru Presbytery— A. B. Todd, J. Standring, E. J. Porter; Duustan Presbytery, W. K. Grant; Mataura Presbytery — J. A. Asher, Adam Begg, Geo. Miller, W. A. Kyd. Elders: Dunedin Presbytery — Messrs H. Purvis, A. Chisholm, T. Coull, W. Eendall, W. Hatton, W. E. Fitzgerald, W. Couston, E. JEdminston, T. K. Sidey, E. Mercer, 11. Wise, \JD. A. M'Nicoll, E. B. Cargill, W. W. Scott, and Captain Thomson; Clutha Presbytery — U". Bruce, A. M'Nicol, S. Parkinson, D. Hughan, A. Garry; Southland Presbytery — W. Hutchison, D. L. M'Ewan, T. Scott, A. Christie, W. JE. Adams, A. Small; Oamaru Presbytery — A. Cameron, B. Mollison, — Stringer; Dunstan Presbytery, E. Chisholm; Mataura Presbytery—T. Mac Gibbon, S. Miller, C. Knowles, t— Edie.

For the Rev. Mr Bannerman's amendment '(54). — Ministers: Dvmedin Presbytery — The JEievs. A. M. Finlayson, E. E. M. Sutherland, 3". Christie; Clutha Presbytery — W. Bannerman, J. TJ. Spence, P. E. Fraser; Southland Presbytery, B. Bissett; Oamaru Presbytery — J. Niven, P. S. Hay, W. Nicoll, W. Wright, 7. Clarke, A. D. Thomson; Dunstan Presbytery—lt. Telford, M'Cosh Smith, J. Lothian, J. C. Gellie ; Mataura Presbytery — J. M. Dav'/lson, E. J. Carter. Elders: Dunedin Presbyiery — Messrs Graham, E. Landreth, J. Eeid, G. Moir, D. Thomson, W. Currie; Clutha Presbytery — P. M' Skimming, J. Fyfe, C. "Dallas, J. Somerville, C. Smaill, M. Paterson, "W. Begg; Southland Presbytery— J. T. Mackerras, 3". Shaw, D. Scott, W. Ayton, G. Dawson, W. Ayson; Oamaru Presbytery — G. Goodall, A. Murdoch, G. Caldwell, H. Allan, W. Matheson, A. Eoss; Dunstan Presbytery- -M. Elliott, J. S. Johnston, A. C. Begg, E. Glendining, Mataura—W. D. Stewart, — Fyfe, E. Mitchell, It. Fleming, J. Pullar, Dr Copland.

The Rev. Mr Gibb's motion was then car- - yied on the voices. The following overture from Mataura Presbytery was then received: — "Whereas it is expedient that a matter so important as union between the Presbyterian Church of New Zealand and the Church of Otago and Southland should be effected with the greatest possible unanimity ; whereas the retention of the Synod of Otago and Southland as an ecclesiastical court, and the constitution of the proposed General Assembly of the United Church as purely representative, would remove the chief difficulties of many, and bring about the desired harmony, it is hereby humbly overtured by the Presbytery of Mataura to the venerable the Synod of Otago and Southland, indicted to meet in October next, to take the premises into consideration, with a view to devise such measures as shall secure tKe object prayed for."

After some discussion, it was resolved to discuss the articles 3, 7, 9, and 11 at 7 o'clock next evening. The synod then adjourned till 10 next moraiug-

THE QUESTION POSTPONED.

The question of union between the Presbyterian Church of New Zealand and the Presbyterian Church of Otago and Southland again came up for consideration at Friday night's meeting of the synod.

The Rev. W. Bannerman said that the business to be taken in accordance with the resolution at the adjournment on the previous night was the consideration of the basis of union, but a notice of motion had foeen given. The Rev. J. Gibb said that the motion would naturally .come as an amendment to the motion which it would have fallen to him to move under ordinary circumstances. Dr Watt stated that he head tabled the motion under a misapprehension, and he thought that perhaps after all it would be best if he withdrew it, and he asked leave to do so.

Permission to withdraw the motion having been granted, Mr Gibb said it would have fallen to him to have gone on, in terms of the resolution passed on the previous night, to move the reaffirmation of article 3 of the basis of union. He proposed to withdraw, with the leave of the synod, that motion and to substitute the following : " Postpone meanwhile further discussion on the basis of union ; retain the committee ; instruct it to confer with the leaders of the minority and the union committee of the Northern Church with the view of ascertaining whether any, and what modifications, of the present basis would be likely to unite all parties." Permission was unanimously given to Mr Gibb to move that motion.

Mr Gibb then said that he proposed to indicate the nature of the reasons which had ■led him to submit this motion for the consideration of the synod, which he gathered from the apparent temper of the synod would be unanimously accepted. He at any rate trusted it would. The Duke of (Wellington said once that the next saddest thing to a battle lost, was a battle won. That was particularly true, when, owing to circumstances over which one had no control, the due fruits of the victory could not be reaped. He distinctly recognised that they could not go on with any sure hope of 'success in their mission while so large a minority of the synod was opposed to them. r,»— (Applause.) Even if they had carried, jHß.><* honed they Would be rarrierL article

3 by a majority which would at least have been equal to the majority of the preceding night — and it was very likely there would have been little difference in the voting, inasmuch as the nature of the amendment was really a subversion of article 3 — if, he repeated, they carried article 3 by a majority as great as that of the preceding night, and when they came to the final motion had succeeded in increasing their majority, even then the minority would likely lmve been too large for them to hope finally for complete success, especially in view of the fact that before the union could be absolutely accomplished they must obtain legislative sanction to the bill appended in the report now under consideration. If there had been no appeal to Parliament the union would have been already de facto accomplished. The synod had carried a very important measure — the marriage of a deceased wife's sister — on a majority of three. They certainly could have carried union on a majority of 25. It might not have been wise, even if they had not had to appeal to Parliament, to stand by their rights. Perhaps there might be, he trusted there was, an extreme probability of their finding during the next 12 months, some solution of their difficulties, — (Hear, hear.) He thought the situation was not by any means hopeless. — (Hear, hear.) He stood by all he had said on the previous day and the day before, as to the dismal results to the Otago Church if union should be abandoned. Deep down in his heart were the yearning and hope that they might yet come to see eye to eye in this matter. He believed they were desirous of getting rid of those difficulties, and while he had a very strong conviction that the basis proposed was the best of all bases which could possibly be formulated, he trusted that a modus vivendi woxild be found, and that the Union Committee would in the nexb 12 months be able ,to adjust matters on the one hand with the friends on the other side, and on the other hand with the Northern Assembly. He hoped that he would be in the happy position next year of seeing a unanimous synod and vote in favour of the proposition of the Union Committee. He could not indeed speak, and it would be extremely unwise if he were to speak, f.ir the Union Committee as to w ; at meml»e."s of that committee might be prepared to do in the way of concessions. The committee of union had not yet considered this matter. It would require very careful, painstaking, and long-continued consideration. Without in any way committing the committee of union, yet as a member of that committee, he might be permitted to say, and speaking for himself alone, he should be prepared to concede ecclesiastical functions to the Otago Synod — such ecclesiastical functions as were enjoyed by the provincial synods of the churches in Scotland. Mr Finlayson was to have moved, he understood, a motion to this effect : " That article 3be amended by the inserting 'provincial synods' after 'presbyteries,' and by providing that while synodical operations may remain in abeyance throughout the bounds of the Northern Church, such operations shall continue in the Synod of Otago and Southland " Mr- Finlayson: Stop there.— (Laughter.) Mr Gibb: You want me to stop there? There is more.

Mr Finlayson : That is all I intended to move.

Mr Gibb continued, and said that the part of Mr Finlayson's intended motion which he had not read was just in line with another concession he was prepared to make. He would be prepared, as he had said, to concede ecclesiastical functions to the Otago Synod and also this, that in the constitution of the united church it should be stated in article 3 or somewhere else that as soon as circumstances might render it advisable the church might have a representative assembly. But till circumstances did render it desirable all ministers of the church and an elder from each session should have a seat in the assembly. He trusted, in the interests of peace and for the furtherance of the union question, and also because of the business of the synod itself, the motion would be unanimously accepted. — (Applause.)

The Rev. R. R. M. Sutherland _ had much pleasure in seconding the motion. — (Applause.) In speaking the other night he mentioned that the Union Committee had at last appointed a deputation to confer with those in the synod who did not agree with them. He had some difficulty in coming to a, conclusion as to whether that was a confession of conscious weakness or a sign of coming wisdom. One thing he was sure of was that it was a sign of grace. This motion made it clear that the committee was at last coming to its senses. — (Applause.) He thought the motion moved by Mr Gibb was the only sensible motion in the circumstances. — (Hear, hear.) What those had felt who had not agreed with the proposals of the Union Committee was this : When the subject was taken up in 1892 the synod laid down certain lines upon which a satisfactory basis would need to be constructed. That was sent up to the Northern Church, and the representatives of the two churches met in conference, and they put to one side the lines that the synod had laid down as the only lines that would, he understood, be satisfactory to the synod. The representatives of the synod accepted the new lines substituted for the lines which had been laid down, and since then those who took the view of the matter that he did felt that the Union party had tried to force union upon these new lines upon the synod. Every year the question came up that feeling was intensified, but now the Union Committee had come to a better state of mind, to a saner state of mind, and the proposal of Mr Gibb was in his estimation altogether satisfactory in the present situation. There was to be no more forcing ; there was to be quiet, calm, deliberate, serious, honest conference all round lo see if they could not come to a common understanding. That was exactly his iilen as to what ought to be done in the situation, and what ought to have been done at the beginning. If that had been done at the beginning they might to-day have been within reasonable sight of union.

The Rev. A. M. Einlayson thought that, instead of the Union Committee communicating with the leaders of the opposition, it would be an improvement to brine a

few of those who were recognised as leaders of the opposition into the committee. The ReV. Mr Dabjpnple was of opinion that the suggestion of Mr Finlayson was a good one, and proposed that Mr A. 0. Begg and the Rev. R. R. M. Sutherland be added to the Union Committee.

The Rev. Mr Sutherland disapproved of the proposal to add Mr Begg and himself to the Union Committee at present, although, he said, it might be wise and desirable for those on his side to be represented on the committee next year.

After further discussion, Mr Gibb's motion M-as put and carried unanimously.