THE CLUTHA SLY GROG CASES,

Otago Witness, Volume 25, Issue 2321, 25 August 1898, Page 34

THE CLUTHA SLY GROG CASES,

CHARGES OF PERJURY AGAINST CON-

STABLES

The hearing of the charge against Constable John Melville of having committed perjury in j the evidence he gave on oath, before Mr Hawkins, S.M., as a witness at Clinton at the hearj ing of the charge against Richard Irving of selling whisky without being licensed on the 22nd July by swearing to the effect that he and one James Arthur Cruickshank bad bought whisky from the said Richard Irving on the sth July and paid him a shilling therefor, and that lie the said John Melville did not get whisky from the said Richard Irving for nothing, and that he did not tell one John Palmer that he and the said James Arthur Cruickshank had got whisky on the sth July from the said Richard Irving without payment, was resumed before Mr C. C. Graham, S.M., at the City Police Court on Tuesday afternoon, j Mr F. R. Chapman appeared to prosecute, and Mr A. C. Hanlon to defend. Daniel Douglas Macdonald, cross-examined by Mr Hanlon, said that Melville admitted in court that he was on very friendly terms with Palmer. "Witness knew that Palmer's statement that they had been on the same farms. Melville said that they met every night, and j were very " chummy. ' ] j Constable J tenner was not cross-examined. ' j David Murray, cioss-examined, said he went to Irving's Hotel about 7 o'clock on the night in question. Had driven from Pukerau that day. Had tea at the hotel, but could not remember whether he had tea before he went into the sitting room, but thought it very likely he looked into the room first. He could not say who wers in the sitting room when he went in. He reaDy could not remember who were there. He went into the room after tea about 9 o'clock. He went out after tea, and returned about 9 o'clock, going into the front sitting room. Cruickshank, Melville, Hugh Smith, Adam Munay, Gordon, and Martin were there. He could not say if there was anyone else. He left about 10 o'clock. He was there scarcely an hour. The men were sitting by the fire. A plan of the room was here produced, and witness pointed out where Melville aud Cruicksliank were sitting. He went into the private silting room after he left. He did not remember if he left any of the men in the room. He believed he left Adam Murray there. Witness sab down on a sofa in Mr Jcving's piivate sitting room. living remained in the room all the time witness was there. He did not remember his leaving the room. He remembered someone coming to the door. It was Hugh Smith. Irving was sitting on an easy chair when Smith knocked. He got up and went to the door. Irving and witness were partners in a sheep deal, and witness was interested in what Smith said. Smith a3ked for instructions about something for the next day. Witness said when the case was before Mr Hawkins that he could see Smith. He said to Mr Hawkins " I saw Melville ancl Cruickshank at the door. I saw no one else there." He meant after Smith left. What he said was that when Smith was leaving tho door Cruickshank and Melville came forward pnd asked Irving if there was any chance of getting a nightcap. He told Mr Hawkins that he heard Smith talking outside, but he only saw Melville and Cruickshank. Mr Hanlon ■ What do you mean by saying now that you saw Smith only? Witness; Smith had just gone away from the door, and when he left Melville and Cruickshank came to the door within a minute after, j Counsel, quoting from the evidence given by witness in the case to the effect that he said Smith came for instructions half an lioiir be- | fore, asked him if it were true he had said that. , Witness replied that if ho did say it, he did not mean to say it. To say that Smith came half an hour before v;a,<i a mistake. Cruickshank said to Irving, "Is there any chance of getting a , nightcap?" Irving was then standing at the door. Ho was jupt going to shut the door after , Smith left, when Melville and Cruickshank came , up. He heard their footsteps in the passage. 1 Irving d)d not say anything. j Mr Hanlon asked if the following extract from witness' evidence were correct. — "Irving and I were sitting in the private parlour. Irving heard footsteps, and said, 'I'll go and r-ee who j this is.' Cruickshank and Melville were there when he went to the door. Cruickshonk aoked if he could have a nip. and Irving s.ihl 'No; nrohibitjoii has been cirricd here four yeats , ago.' Cruickshank then said it wai very hard, ' i.iat he would so much like to have a nip bclo^e

going to bed. Irving afterwards said, ' Well, come pnd have a drink with me. Mind yon, I can't take payment foi it.' " That was what he totJ Mr Hawkins. Cruickshank and Melville came in, and Irving took a bottle out of tho chiffonier, and a coupie of glasses, and gave them each a nip. He took it for granted that it was whisky. He cou'.d not spy if Irving had a, drink. Irving put the bottle back into the chiifonier. The men rlid not say aayiliing when they lnd the liquor. It was not usual lor Jli ; Irving to offer a whisky in that way. lie did ' not offer witne&d a drink then. He had a drink ' with him afterwards. Witness had a whisicy ! hot. Ho did not know what Irving had. Aftsr i Cruickshank ancl Melville had a drink Irving j asked them if they knew the numbers of their I rooms. If he told Mr Hawkins that Irving had I a nip with Cruickshank and Melville,, it was the , truth. He could not recollect now if Irving had ] a diink or not. When he gave his evidence be- ' fore Mr Hawkins he said he did not remember , if ho had a whisky hot himself or not. Now he remembered he did. Percy Martin, commercial traveller, said he had been a traveller off and on for a number I of year?. He had not been travelling ior anyone, during the last thice months, but that was what he had been biouglit up to. He had been living for over two months, or thereabouts, with I Irving as a friend. He had known Irving ior j about 15 3 ears. He worked when lie chose, but 1 it was only as a matter of choice. He had com- ! missions to travel there, but the rosls had been impassable, and he hod not done anything in consequence. Irving had asked iinu to come and stay with him to recruit his health. liie doctor told him to tackle hard work ior "he ! benefit of his health, and that was why he had ! done work there. On the sth July he wos at ; Irving' s accommodation house, lie went into 1 the sitting room after tea. Adam Murray was there and several others, but lie could not rcmenibei who weie there. He could remember who were there after the tiain. He might not havo gone o\ or to the train, j Mr Hanlon . You know everything in this case ! depends, on what took place after 9 o'clock?. i

I Witness: Yes. J Mr Ilanlon: Ancl I want to test your credt* ( bility by asking j'ou what took place before 3. I Witness was asked several questions »3 1o what occuiTcd before 9 o'clockj but said -^.c could not reniember 'sufficiently to reply to the questions. After 9 o'clock he remained in the loom till aboii t a quarter to 12. He had no diink, nor did he have any cofxee or supper. Murray left first; Smith tnen left, almost on Murray's heels, and then Melville, Cruickshank and himself left. When he got out He noticed Hugh Smith at the foot of the stairs. Gordon _ was also in the passage near the stairs, witness was talking to Smith when (Jruickshank | was speaking to Irving. He asked Smith if i c were going to the Pomahaka in the morning, •' but he said he would see the boss about some ' sheep. Witness thought he wanted to get inj structions. Witness got his board anct lodgings I at the place. He did not remember if Cruickj shank knocked at Irving's door. He would not say if Smith had not spoken to Irving before he saw him. He saw Ciuickshank go into living's room He did not lose sight of him. He heard him ask Irving if there was any chance of getting a nightcap. Irving said, "No, sir; no chance. Understand, Uiis is a prohibition j district," or something to that effect. Cruick- ! shank said something about it seeming Hard, I and appeared to be anxious to get a drink. He ! could not remember the words used. He diil . not want to invent anything. Nobody invented j anything for him. Irving said most emphati- ; cally that lie would not take any money, but he would give him a drink. He thought it was a white bottle the drink was taken out of. i His Worship remarked, in reply to an observation of Mr Hanlon that witness' memory cud not seem to be very good, that one could not remember such small details as the colour of the bottle. Mr Hanlon said that it was those small details which it was necessary to dwell upon 'n order to prove it was a concocted story, which his side said it was. In reply to further questions, witness said that Irving had a drink, and he supposed he took the drink out of the same bottle. Wit- ! ness would swear that no money was tendered. He would certainly have noticed if any money were tendered. Witness continued to say that he had only been asked a few hours before tlia case came on at Clinton to give evidence. He and the others did .not compare tneir evidence. There had been no collusion whatever. Hugh Smith, shepherd, said he v/as a farmer. Prior to that he was at the bank. He left j because he had more creditors than he could pay. On the sth July he was in the front sitting room of the Prince of Wales Hotel. He could not say who were all in and out after tea and before the train arrived. After the train came in Melville, Cruickshank, and Martin were in the room when he went in. Adam Murray was there also. He went to see Irving, and saw him at the door of the private sitting room. Witness did not think that he had said, when the case was before Mr Hawkins, that ho was coming out of the one door when Irving was coming out of the other. Did not think he could have said it. After speaking to Irving witness thought that he (Irving) did not go in&icle the room. Cruickshank and Melvijlo came up. Would not contradict anyone who said that Irving was leaving the door and closing it after him. Cruickshank asked if there was any chance of getting a drink. Irving- said no, no chance at all. Cruickshank agkod if they could not possibly get a nightcap, and Irving replied that it was a prohibition district or words to that effect. Cruickshank said to Irving: " Don ! t you reniember me?" and Irving said something like "Yes, I believe I do." Irving said, "You can have a drink with me," or something to that effect. Witness did not think the drink could havo beei paid for at all. Irving could not have givpn Cruickshank 19s change without witness seeing it. Did not see a jug or decanter of water. Would swear that the two men got a drink but would not swear that the word whisky was mentioned. If the policemen snore they never got a drink at the door they had sworn a lie. Could not say whether Irving had a drink. Mr Hanlon : Do you remember having a conversation with one Walter Finn on the 16th July? Witness: No, I don't. At Balclutha : No, I don't. I don't think I have spoken to Walter Finn for six months. Now try to think. Take plenty of time. — No 1 don't remember speaking to him. Will you swear that you did not at Balclutha on the 16th July say to Walter Finn that you were there all the time,and Melville and Cruickshank neither asked for nor got a drink there? I will swear that I was not in Balclutha on the IGth July. Will you swe?r that you did not say that? — Yes, I will; nor at any other time or place. Continuing, witness said that Irving had spoken to him about giving evidence in the ca-3 3 at Clinton. Irving told him to see Mr Macdonald, and Mr Macdonald asked him about the case, and he (witness) told him what he knew about it. Tho case was here adjourned till 11.30 next (Wednesday) morning..

The Wellington A. and P. Society has confirmed the report of a sub-committee, ard decided that the association be wound ip ov/inar to l3ck of financial support. The surplus of the '98 celebration in Waimate is to be devoted to the relief of the starving poor in Ireland, and the committea expects to send close on £50 Home. A young man narked Cowell hanged himpelf in a first-class railway carriage at Leeds. He was a local preacher, but latterly had given way to betting.

—Mr Shaw-Lefevre, L.C.C, opening a recreation ground in Hoxton, said that within 15 miles of London there were 25,000 acres of land maintained for the use of the public.