WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 3.

Otago Witness, Issue 2319, 11 August 1898, Page 25

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 3.

. In the Legislative Council today, the Port Chalmers Mechanics' Institute, Homing Pigeons' Protection, First Offenders lrobation, and Divorce Bills passed the iecond reading stage. Two local bills were finally /passed.

DIVORCE. The Hon. J. MAOGREGOR moved the .second rending of the Divorce Bill. The measure was supported by the JAon. Messrs Jones, M'Lean, Bolt, Scotland, and M'Cullough, and opposed by the Hon. Messrs "Williams, Grace, and Kerr. The latter moved -an amendment that the bill be read six months hence. This was negatived by 25 to 10, and the second reading agreed to on the voices.

In the House of Representatives to-day Iho Native Lands' Protection and Admmistra tion Bill was introduced by Message from the Governor. The Banking Bill in Committee occupied the House afterwards until 1 o el-wk this morning, when it was reported. THE BANK BILL. The Bank of New Zealand Act and Banking AH Amendment Bill was further considered "o^sTlS, remuneration of directors whilst holding office, Mr TAYLOR proposed that the chairman's salary be £750 mstead of £1000, as proposed in the bill.— l he 1 UiMIER said he would accept a proposal that Se chairman's salary be £500, a* he believed as good a man could be obtained at that salary as for £1000. The general manager would have the chief responsibility, and the bond would have to do mainly with matters ot lDolicy— Mr TAYLOR said he would withdraw his amendment in view of the Premier a statement.-Mr OROWTHER remarked that ■the Premier had evidently intended the larger •salary for someone whose chances had been destroyed by the amendments made m the bill, and was not now anxious about the payment of a stranger.-Mr CARSON agreed with the oninions expressed by Mr Crowther.-^he PREMIER said he was in favour of voting a lump sum, which the directors could divide amongst themselves, and the chairman s sais-ry need not then be fixed by statute. There might be a lump sum of £3000 provided by the bill.— Captain RUSSELL did not believe in belittling the office and duties of chairman cf directors, and thought it a mistake to cut down the salary or leave it open in the way proposed. The chairman should not be a political nominee, but a first-class man with special aptitude and experience.— Mr WASON said Captain Russell's argument was based on the assumption that a president of the bank was necessary ; but the House had spent six days in setting forth that that office was not needed. He would support the Premier's proposal.— Mr DUTHIE thought the chairman s salaiy as proposed by the Premier too little altogether.—Mr BUCHANAN held that it would be better not to have a Board of Directors at all unless it was composed of men of tho right calibre, and this end was not likely to be secured by the means proposed by the 1 iemier.—Hon. Mr LARNACH maintained that a chairman of the class and character required for the position could not be obtained for the small salary, and it would be foolishness, and contrary to the bank's interest, to have a man who would be content with remuneration out of keeping with the responsibility and unremitting character of the work which a chairman fit for the position would have to do.

The clause passed without amendment. Clauses 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, and 19 passed without dissent. Clause 20, Assets Board's balance sheet to be yearly instead of holf-yearly.— Agreed to after a short discussion. Clause 21, authorising tho Governor-in-Council to prescribe tho forms of tho returns to be made by the banks, was struck out.

Exception was taken to clause 22, providing that every bank in the colony should keep assets in the colony eq.ial to liabilities.— Mr BUCHANAN held thai the so-called foreign

banks would necessarily keep themselves strong in countries in which thoy did their chief business, and it would not benefit New Zealand to compel them to do as proposed in the clause.— Tne PREMIER said the clause was proposed in the interests of the people of New Zealand ; but ho was not prejudiced, end would sooner let the clause go than jeopardise the bill. He would bring in auothor bill dealing with this subject and the question of leturns. He moved that tho clause bo struck out; alfo clause 23, providing for the disposal of trading concerns and lands taken pessossion of by any bank as mortgpgee.— Clauses 22 and 23 were struck out.

Clause 24-, modifying the deed of settlement, etc., was passed.

The PREMIER proposed a new clause to the effect that the directors appointed by the Governor-in-Council hold office for two years, j and retire alternately.— Mr BUCHANAN ; moved that the time be three years.— The amendment was lost by 33 to 18, and the motion carried. The term for the directors elected by tho shareholders was also made two , In consequence of the abolition of the office of president, a proviso was added that shares be transferred only on lhe authority of the chief auditor or some person empowered by him. The PREMIER proposed a new clause to the effect that the bank may from tinie to ' time, out of profits, make such provision as is deemed desirable for ascertained losses, or estimated deficiencies, in respect of such of , its assets as consist of trading concerns, pro- ' perties, and other assets taken over or ac- ; quired from the Bank of New Zealand Estates , Company, buildings acquired from the Colonial Bank, goodwill paid to the Colonial Bank, and expenses incurred in connection with the conversion or payment of debentures. Mr ERASER objected, as if the trading concerns and properties were written down it would prejudico the fulfilment of the promise made to shareholders of a dividend of o per cent, me an inducement to pay calls.— lhe PREMIER said the act provided that the dividends should come out of the net profits, which could not exist unless the assets were ; written down for depreciation. — Mr \)V) laUi. i saw no reason why the clause should not pass, ] as there was nothing unreasonable in it, but a good deal more might have been done before the affairs of the bank were Pj^ed on a bedrock foundation.— Mr MONTGOMERY thought the Premier's proposal not only a fair thing to do, but a thing which should have been done long ego.— The clause was agreed to. ! It was agreed that the bank's balance sheet j be made up anivially to March 61 m each J€ Mr TAYLOR moved to the effect that the directors to be appointed under tho act take steps to dispose of the bank in the colony or Great Britain, subject to the conditions necessary to safeguard .the interests of the colony. -Negatived by 41 to 14. It was agreed that the chairman of the board of directors bo elected annually. Mr PIRANI moved that the members of the Assets Board should in future be deemed to be civil servants, as had been provided in the ease of the directors of the bank.— lhe PREMIER objected to the proposal, as the representation on the board should be a \cry special one in view of the large interests involved, the colony being interested to the extent of fully £1,800.000. That being so, it was necessary tho Government, as custodians of the public interests, should be in close , touch with tho policy and administration of j the Assets Board. As to the work of the board, he took it as an instruction from I arliament, that the board should realise the { properties as speedily as, yet with as little \ loss as, possible.— A long discussion en- j sued as to the operations of the Assets Board.-- Mr ERASER said that the board S had been selling properties as speedily as ! possible, but a difficulty in connection with the larger estates was that would-be buyers feared that the Government might compel them to sell 3 gain to the State at a time when prices might mean loss to them. If provision had .been made that estates bought from the board should not be taken under the Lands for Settlement Act for a definite period of years, the board would have sold a good many more estates. — The Hon. J. G. WARD said the board had not used the opportunities which had existed during the past three years for getting rid of properties. He thought more life might be put into the board.— The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said the board had shown considerable energy in selling estates, some of which, however, were of a character which could not be easily sold on account of inaccessibility and other causes. He showed that the operations of the Land for Settlements Act had helped the Assets Board to get rid of properties which otherwise would have remained in its hands. — The Hon. Mr ROLLESTON said the real question opened up by the proposal was whether the Prime Minister of the colony should sit at a salary on tho Assets Board, the actions of which he, as a Minister, was bound constitutionally to bo in a position to review. Yet how could any Premier do so, lie being a self-appointed member of the board. — The MINISTER EOR LANDS said it was after he had declined to become a member of the board that the Premier was appointed to a seat on it.— Mr MASSEY thought the only solution of the difficulty would be found to consist in handing over the landed properties to the Lands department for disposal and in selling the stock on the estates. After that had _ been done the colony would be in a position to sell the bank itself. In the course of his reply. Mr PIRANI said the Premier and Mr Eraser should, &* members of the Assets Board, have seen that an intelligible report and accurate balance sheet of the board's proceedings was presented to Parliament. The economics of the board had been of a parsimonious order, and had, in some instances, consisted in reducing from £1 to 18s a week. —The PREMIER said Mr Pirani's proposal was foreign to the purpose of the bill, and the proposer had exhibited a mixture of ignorance and malice in the statements which lie had made in connection with the board's operation. It was monstrous to propose to make such a change in the constitution of the Assets Board, or to try to sever its administration from responsible touch with the Go vernment, whoever the Ministers might be, for the colony's interest in tho estates iequired that that touch be maintained. — Mr MONTGOMERY held that the ascribing of motives was out of place, and that it was obvious Mr Pirani wished to apply the Civil Service Disqualification Act to members of tho board solely on constitutional grounds. — Mr ERASER maintained that criticisms had been jiasscd on the board by members based on mere hearsay, and tho solo cause of tho board's unpopularity in the country was because it would neither force sales nor sacrifice the estates under its control.— The proposal was negatived by 26 to 20. The following is the division li&t: — Noes (26): Mcsars Cadman, Carncioss, CarEPU A Duncan, Flatman, Gi.lfedd.erj Graham^

llall-Jones, Houston, Kaihau, Lawry, J. M'Kenzie, M'Gowan, 11 . M'Kenzie, M'Nab, Meredith, Millar, Mills, Morrison, O'Meara, Parata, Seddon, Stevens, Symes, T. Thompson, Ward.

Ayes (201 : Messrs Bollard, Brown, Buchanan, Carson, Orowther, Herries, Hunter, Lang, Lewis, Scobie Mackenzie, Massey, Monk, Montgomery, Moore, Pirani, Eolleston, Sligo, Smith, Tanner, Taylor.

The bill was then reported with amendments.

NATIVE LAND LEGISLATION.

The Native Lands Settlement and Administration Bill was circulated to-day. It is practically the same measure as that circulated during the recess, and discussed by the Maoris in various parts of the colony. The principal alteration is, I understand, in the clause giving the Native Land Board power to take land for public purposes. This power is made more extenshe than in tho original bill. The preamble is interesting. It; cols forth (hat "during the Diamond Jubilee of the Quean's reign the Natives of Now Zealand, by petition to her Majesty and to the Parliament of Now Zealand, urged that the residue (about five million acres) of the land now remaining in popsesf-ion ol the Native owners should be reserved for their use and benefit in such wise as to protect them from the risk of being left landless, and that in commemoration of die beneficent reign of her Majesty and in testimony of her kindly care for the wishes and welfare of her Nat i\o subjects in New Zealand, it is expedient to give effect to the aforesaid petition, and to provide for tho better administration of their lands." The bill is considerably longer than in its original form, the machinery clauses being more detailed.

LANDLESS NATIVES.

A bill to set aside Crown lands as a reserve for landless Natives has been introduced by Mr Carroll. The bill provides that, subiect to the control of the Minister for Lands, the act shall be administered undoi the direction of a Board of Commissioners, consisting of two persons, one of whom shall be the Surveyor-general and the other shall be appointed by the Governor in-Council. Any Native who alleges that he does not possess sufficient land for the support of him.-elf and dependents may apply to the board for a landless certificate, and if the board, if satisfied with his case, may issue to him a cer tificate. On the report and recommendation of the board the Governor may from time tc time by Order-in-Council set aside blocks of Crown laud in the North Island of New Zea Is,? id as reserves for the personal use and oc cupation of landless Natives. In no case shall the area of any such reserve be less than 1000 or more than 10,000 acres. Except in so far as is otherwise provided by this act every reserve shall be inalienable by way of sale or of occupation with right of purchase. The" Commissioner of Crown Lands is given power to survey and lay off roads and subdivide tho reserves. Provision is also made for tho issue of occupation warants to sue cessful applicants, and the restrictions, rights, and dealings thereunder are prescribed. Powers are also given to the Governor-in Council to set apart land for schools and cemeteries, and other purposes of public utility.

THE BANKING BILL.

At 20 minutes to 1 Mr Taylor made a speech criticising the ssle of Bushy Park to the sons of the Minister for Lands. He also said he was very sorry tho Premier had so far forgotten himself as to use words regarding Mr Pirani which were more disgusting than any he (Mr Taylor) had over heard in that House. Mr Taylor also referred in sarcastic terms to the possibility of Mr Hall- Jones getting a seat on tho Assets Board. This brought the latter to his feet to criticise Mr Taylor, and he explained that he would vote against Mr Pirani's amendment to 'apply tho Disqualification Act to members of Parliament. There wab great laughter at the utter discomfiture of Mr Hall-Jones when immediately afterwards Mr Taylor proved from Hansard that in 1895 Mr Hall-Jones had voted in exactly the opposite way. " But that," added Mr Taylor, " was at a time when tho lion, member was not so much in the habit ot ' standing on his head.' " Mr Pirani's clause was lost by 26 to 20, and the bill was leported iron Committee.

THE LEFT WING.

Tho recent inconsistencies of the members of the Left Wing are being freely commented upon just now. In spite of their boasted independence and their democratic professions, Messrs Taylor, Smith, and Montgomery were found voting with the Government against Mr Duthie's motion to ask the Public Accounts Committee to consider the recent changes of the tariff, more especially as regards their effect on the poorer classes of the community. There is a strong feeling here that the increased taxation of the working population was a matter worth consideration, yet, because it was made a party question, several of the democratic Left Wing followed the Premier into the lobby. Now the Left Wing and the prohibitionists are practically identical, and the threat of the latter to run candidates in every electorate at the next election is in keeping with their recent incon&istent conduct. They assert that any doubt they had at the last election as to the understanding between the Premier and the brewers have lately been turned into a certainty, and they have frequently charged Mr Seddon with being the brewers' ally. Yet they are prepared to repeat the folly of 1896, which had the affect of giving the Government another lease of life, and they threaten to put up prohibitionist candidates at the next election, though they must know that very few of their men can expect to be returned, and that the chances of the Government will in consequence be materially improved. It is slated here that, in some parts of tho colony at any rate, the brewers would be prepared to refrain from running special candidates il they were not forced to do so by the futile aggressiveness of the prohibitionists. Tho Temperance party seem to be playing a strange game.

JOTTINGS,

The M to Z Petitions Committee report that certain petitioners who object to the Cycle Traffic Bill have made out a case worthy of the consid* ration of the House. Mr Montgomery says land in Canterbury is now selling above its value. No one, he says, can buy property in Canterbury at the present time and make more than 3 per cent, out of it. Mr Pirani occasionally annoys tl.e Premie . He did so to-night. Tho Premier seemed to lose his tempar over the incident, and said : " I don't know how it is that creeping things ore allowed to enter our political life. lhe Chairman, at tho instance of Mr i irani, promptly made the Premier withdraw tho words. _ n „ William Nathaniel Chambers, who was di3charoed from Hillside Workshops on the 11th October, 1890, on account of being over 6b years of ago, is petitioning for compensation. Ho is now over 74 years of age, and has a wife to support, but is in destitute circuniThe Railway Committee has no recommendation to make in regard to Richard Withy's

petition for compensation because of injuries sustained while attempting to get on a train

| in motion at Kensington. Mr Lewis is moying in the direction cf

getting the Government to supply all pubiio

vaccinators with calf lymph, and at the Fame time to issue instructions that in future nothing but calf lymph shall be used in vaccination. Mr Geo. Hutchison is again tackling Ministers on the subject of their travelling expenses, lie wonts returns for the last tv, o years. He is also asking for information about the travelling expenses of members cf the West Coast Harbour Boards. THURSDAY, AUGUST -1. In the Legislative Council on Thursday, some progress was made in Committee with the Unclaimed Moneys and Animals' Protection Bills. The Council will probably ad joiirn for a week while the financial debate is proceeding.

PROIKCTION OF ANIMALS.

The Animals' Protection Bill was furthei considered in Committee.

Exception was taken to the provision making it illegal to offer game for sale in a provinco other than that in which it had been killed. It was finally decided to postpone the clause for further consideration.

Several minor amendments were made, and progress reported at clauso 40.

The Hon. W. C. WALKER announced that he would move next day that the Council adjourn till tho following Tuesday week.

The House of Representatives was engaged with local bills on Thursday. The University of Otago Leases Security Bill was passed with several others.

OTAGO UNIVERSITY.

The University of Ota go Leases and Securities Bill (Mr Scobie Mackenzie) was taken in Committee.

Provisos were added to clause 5 as follows : Provided that in no case shall the fee simple of the land be mortgaged as security, and that the sanction of the Governor-in-Council shall not entail any liability on the part of the colony. Mr MILLAR proposed a new clause to the effect that nothing in the bill should pre judicially affect any endowments vested in tho trustees of the Dunedin Athenseum and Mechanics' Institute. — Agreed to. The bill was reported with amendments, read a third time, and passed.

ASSETS REALISATION BOARD.

In the discussion of the policy of the Assets Realisation Board, valuable suggestions were made and much useful information given. Mr W. Eraser's concluding remarks were especially valuable, as indicating the future policy of the board. Mr Fraser said whoever might have the management of the board's affairs in the future, it would be just as well to have had that discussion, because it appeared that the House was determined to change the policy advocated in 1G95. Then it was not intended that the properties should be sold for what they would fetch. If such were intended, why should ten years be given for realisation. It was because tho board wanted to obtain the highest possible prices and were not prepared to give the people bargains that they had become so unpopular. Take the Surrey Hills estate in Auckland a-s an cxainpb. When he (Mr Fraser) first saw the estate, aftar some of tho frontages had been sold, he thought they would never be able to sell the balance. However, they put it up to auction, and a certain number of allotments were sold. The board put the reserves low so as to encourage the peoplp to build. If they had sold the\vhole property at the upnet originally fixed they would have done a wrong thing, and would 1 aye parted with the property at less than its value. They, however, decided to sell no more at that price, but fixed a higher price for future sales. Nearly all the sections sold were built upon. This naturally improved matters, and at the next auction the allotments brought from 15 to 30 per cent, higher. The policy the board followed in this case was surely the right one, and instead of getting "educed values the board got boom values. If the House said they must not do that of course the board would have to obey, but unless the House authoritatively gave instructions to the contrary the board would continue the policy adopted in regard to Surrey Hills and endeavour to obtain at least a fair value for the properties. Mr Duthie said it was quite true tho board were given ten years in which to realise all the properties, but Mr Fraser should remember that that was the very outside limit. They would never realise in that time at the present rate. CIRCUMSTANCES ALTER CASES.

An examination of the voting on Mr Pirani's proposal to add a clause to tho Banking Bill prohibiting any member of Parliament irom occupying a seat on the Assets Realisation Board is very instructive, especially when compared with the division list on a similar motion in 1895. The two men directly interested in the proposal were the Right Hon. the Premier and Mr Fraser, each of whom occupies a seat on the board. Mr Fraser felt that under the circumstances it would be unbecoming for him to vote on the question, and accordingly walked out of tho House, tlis collaaguo, the Premier, however, was troubled by no such delicate scruples, so he voted, and voted against tho motion. In 1895 Mr HallJones voted in favour of excluding members of Parliament from the board, but he was only a private member then. Now Mr Jones is a Minister, and being a Minister, what was right in 1895 becomes very wrong and most undesirable in 1893. With Mr Graham and Mr M'Nab, circumstances also alter cases, and they, too, reversed their votes in the same way as the Minister for Public Works. Mr R. Thompson pursued his usual erratic course. Those who heard him speak during the debate on the bill naturally expected him to vote with Mr Pirani, but ho did not vote at all, preferring to walk out of the House.

A SCENE.

When Mr John Hutcheson's bill was in Committee Mr Morrison during the course of a speech said : "lam not, like the member for Wellington, m the habit of receiving otters of money Lo square mo." This immediately brought Mr Pirani to Ins feet, and he moved that "the words be taken down. ' lhe Chairman asked the member for Ca\ersham to withdraw the words. Mr Morrison said he would withdraw tho words unreservedly. He spoke in tho heat of the moment. Mr Pirani baid that was not bufficient. Tho matter should bo reported to tho Speaker and doalt with by tho House. At this stage (1.30) the Premier, who had been summoned, camo into the Hous3 The Chairman took the voice of the Committee as to whether the words should be taken down or not, Mr Seddon leading off with a stentorian "No," The Chairman said, " The Noes have it, and I shall not take the wards down." At this decision the member for Caversham looked much relieved. Mr Wilson soon afterwards referred to the deliberate and malicious obstruction of more than one bill that night, and said he was ashamed of the attitude of the member for Caversham (Mr Morrison) and those who helped him to

stonewall certain bills. The words "malicious* and " stonewall " had to bo withdrawn. Mr Wilson then declared that the seono was a disgrace to the House, and condemned tho exhibition of buffoonery ho had witnessed. Mr Morrison replied warmly to this speech, and the scene was nearly renewed, Mr Morrison having to do a little mora withdrawing. OTAGO UNIVERSITY ENDOWMENTS.

Mr Scobie Mackenzie ha» succeeded in get* ting tho University of Otago Leases and Securities Bill through its final stages. When clause 5, which provides for rents and revenues becoming security for loans with the sanction of the Governor-in-Council, was reached, the Minister for Lands asked if it was meant by this clause tliat the endowments could be mortgaged and sold in connection with those loans. If it was meant that the endowments could be sold and eventually lost to tho university ho would object. Mr Soobie Mackenzie said the clause gave no more power than the university had before. It had power to pledge its rents, and it had dono so already in regard to some of the rents of the endowments. It had no desire at the present time to go in fo? a loan, but it had within recent years established a very important Mining School, and the revenues of tho university were just sufficient to meet tho current expenditure, and would not permit of any extension in building for the better accommodation of the students of the Mining School and o tliers. The Minister for Lands said he wanted to know if it was meant to pledgo these lands by way of mortgage so that they could be sold. If so, he thought it was a very wrong thing to do. Mr Scobie Mackenzie said the hon. gentleman apparently did not cuite understand the meaning of the clause. Power was not asked to pledge the endowments themselves, but simply the rents and revenues deccivod from the endowments. The Minister for Lands said that was not sufficient. What v/as the value of the rents and revenues derived from the lands in connection with a loan unless the endowments themselves covered that loan. The rents and revenues might fail. (Mr G. Hutchison: "It is like mortgaging ona of your eternal leases.") Mr Seddon chaffed the Opposition on their conversion in the direction of granting power to the Governor-in-Council. (Mr Kelly: "They can trust the Governor-in-Council in this case.") Mr Scobie Mackenzie pointed out that the provision was only an additional safeguard. They could not pledge the rents without the authority of the Governor-in-Council. Mr Larnach : "I understand they want to pledge merely the revenue." Mr Scobie Mackenzie: That is so. Mr Seddon, in order to make quite sure on the point, moved an addition to he clause,. " Provided that in no case shall the fee simple of the land from which the rents and revenue are derived be mortgaged as security therefor." This was agreed to. A proviso was added to the effect that in the case of the Governor-in-Council giving _ hia assent to a loan there should be no liability on the part of the colony. On the motion of Mr Millar, a new clause was added providing that the existing rights of the Dunedin Athenasum and Mechanics' Institute should in no way be prejudiced by the new legislation. Mi Mackenzie offered no objection. The institute, he understood, had some small interest in one of the endowments, but there was no desire to interfere with its rights. The bill was put through all its stages.

BLOCKING LEGISLATION.

Proceedings in the House to-night afforded a lamentable spectacle of the attitude assumed by certain members in blocking legislation. The greater part of the night was wasted by Messrs Morripon and Roderick M'Kenzie in a lengthy and irrelevant discussion of tho Little Rivor Domain Board Bill. The object was apparently the blocking of a Wellington bill introduced by Mr John Hutcheson. Mr Hutcheson, unfortuately for the interests »£ Wellington, has kicked over the Seddonian traces, and must be punished. While this lengthy and terribly dull discussion was going on the Treasury benches were almost empty. Only Mr Hall -Jones of all the Ministry remained, and he did not interfere. Messrs Morrison and Roderick M'Kenzie practically led the Rouse, and as Parliament, according to a recent return, costs about £135 a day, tbeir little incursion into the domain of local politics must have cost the colony a considerable sum. At 12.30 obstruction was still going on, but a few minutes later the opposition collapsed, and tbe bill got through Committee.

JOTTINGS.

Sergeant D. Hannan, who purchased tho Excelsior Hotel, Stafford, for his sister-in-law, and was dismissed from the force in coueequence, is petitioning the House for lelief. Petitioner joined tre force at Dunedin in 1877. Mr E. G. Allen has presented a petition from tho Otago Heads Road Board, asking the Government to appoint a surveyor to survey the ro-ifls required in that district.