A HEATED DEBATE.

Otago Witness, Issue 2317, 28 July 1898, Page 24

A HEATED DEBATE.

THE BANKING BILL.

(Fkom Our. Own Correspondent.)

Wellington, July 22.

When tbe Banking Bill came up in Committee this evening it was found that the Premier at the last moment had circulated a sheaf of fiiaendments, which took members completely by surprise and altered the whole scope of the bill. Tho evils of the system of taking up last year's bills at the stage at which lh»y were left became more than ever apparent : indeed, tha whole Housa is in rebellion over the ne.v system now they understand it. The Bai.kiug Bill commences at the second clause, after a number of amendments, which hud been made laat year and all of whicb are fcgotten. Now tho House has four or five pages full of unintelligible amendments, making practically a new bill which has never passed the second raiding. The leader of tbe Opposition therefore made a very strong protest against such a stats of affaira, demanding a new bill, to commence from the beginning. Mr Ward, who followed, however, put the fat in the lire Iv the course of a a article in the Peht thia evening the followmg reference had baen mad<s to tha member for Awarua : — •' Mt Ward is naturally elesirous ta ba politically rehabilitated— that is, to be fgain invested with Cabinet rank. Tho Hon. John M'Keiizie js beliesved to support in ilia strongest way this dtsiro, whilo tha Premier, with as much determination, opposes it Mr M Keuzie insists upon the Banking B'll bsiug passed, while Mr Seddoi, in vulgar phrase, 'funks it' foT reasons that cannot be Ueie *et down. He is believed to fear the consequences, and we beheve this is to far true that he ha 3no intention that tho bill shall pass, and that it will accordingly be strangled iv such a w*y as (o avoid the appearance of premeditated destruction on the part of its auAht-r. It would thus seem that Mr Ward's prospects of a return to the Cabinet are dependent upon the good effices of the Minister for Lands. Ifthii ba so, how is the membtr for Awarua to run counter to the cherished desire of h^s ally and former colksgug to pass the Banking Bill ? On the other hand, to do this will be to dral a mortal blow a"> tho pofci'ion ot the presiduib ot the b*nk, with whom he has had in the past sujh int ; mit9 and delicate busiucss relations, to wboiu he is popularly believed to o*e so m ich. and whose evidence before the Banking Commission so p : gually failed lo eliscloso auy'hiug of tbe inner hiotfry of the two million guarantee." Mr W^td now denounced tho wrifer of this article in vehement term*. The article me'iut that he w*s, in the desk place, an ii tri^uer and, in the stcond place, a coward. He ftaMy denied that he h*d ever in his life beeu guilty of pDliticiJ itit igue. He denied that he h\d ever asked tha Piemier or his esteemed friend the Miuiater for Linds a single question regarding his re-entry into the Ministry, or to do anything for him in that direction He flung that assertion back »r tho foul tra<Jueers.

Mr Sed^on, who followed, said it was now a case of clear the d cka and prepare for action. 'I he leader of the Opposition hid thrown dowD the gauntlet and had said there would ba no banking legislation. — (Cries of " No.") He held, however, that banking legislation was necessary. Tho board, aa now constituted, had not his confidence or the confidence of the* people of tho colony.

The Hon. John M'Kei.zie thought Mr Watd should not have made so much of a newspaper article. He did not take much notic3 of what was said about himself in the newspapers of the colony. In the district in which he was known and rtspec'ed of tbe people, a newspaper civculatiug there had be'-n running him down for the last 30 yf am. He denied that there was any difference between himself and the Premier in regard to this bill or any other Government m?a?uro. Mr George Hukhison pointed out, in a very able speech, th&t on Mr Ward becomifg bankrupt Mr M'Kei z'te telegrarhed to him expressing a hope that he would soon be back in the IL-useand in the Ministry. He strongly urp;e.d that a ccmmitUe should be appointed to t*ke evidence. This was all the move nec°s»ary as the president in a circular said he was now in a position to give imp rtaut evidence that he c^uld not give bsfore the Biukiug Committee two yeais ago. His mouth was then sealed as to transactions of certain accounts between the B.ink of New Z«aland and the Colonial Bank. Circumstances had transpired that rendered it no longer necessary that reticence should ba observed iv regard to these accounts. The president could give evidence relating lo the affairs of an hon. member of that House who was Colonial Treasurer at the time of the p^s^ing of this banking legislation. It was imperative that that evideneeshould be brought before the House in order that they might judge him and perhaps somo members of that Houso. Mr Duthie urged very careful consideration of the matter, seeing that thecolouy stood committed to four niilliocs and a-half. of money, and if ever there was a lime when the Government should act with the Opposition it -should be now. There should be joint action.

Mr Ward now nnde a heated spsec-h, and attacked Mr Gsorge Hutchison, warning him to leave lii 3 affairs alone. It was not one man's tfJairs that should be inquired into. There were men outside of that House who should be iucluded, and the member for Putea was associating with men in connection with this matter who weie not fit to be in decent society. — (Seuaation.) He warned them that it there was to be an inquiry there would need to be su inquiry into ths f-ff-iirs of eotne people th&t had hitherto been covered up. There were revd-ttions that could be made regarding a trip the hon. mernbsr for Patea took to Scotland. The facts had never been given iv this country yet iv connection with that mission. He would have an inquiry regarding the affairs o$ every man who sat od the B»nking Committee if he (Mr AVard) was to ba treated in thia houndUh and fiendloh way. He would urge this inquiry, aud name some men who h&d not yet been named. He assured them that he would bs alive and kicking in the po!it ; etkl world when soiae members on the other side of the Houso were sinking into oblivion.

Id answet to ai> interjection from Mr Hutchison a* to the expenses of the Treasurer in connection with raising the million and ahalf loan in London, Mr Ward heatedly replied — Thß hon. member is bo familiar with having his own hands greased that he thinks every other member in this House is prepared to accept blocd money. — (Sensation.) He baa received money for services rendered. He received 1000 guineas from the Asfets Realisation Board for simply strolling up and down the sanda smoking cigars with his hands in hia pockets. He had received that money for robbiog & few natives, Ibis c&ueed a further sensation, during which

Caplain Russell rose and objected to such»tato» ments as being an offensive reference to P9t« sonal affairs in contravention of the standing orders. Mr Ward : What is being done with me ? Captain Russell (with dignity) : I don't know anything about you. The words spoken ar» used in an offensive way.

The Chairman ruled the hon. member was making offensive reference to private affairs, and asked him to withdraw his remarks.

Mr Ward said he would withdraw the latter expression he had used, but he warned hon. members that he would yet refer to the personal affairs of every man who attacked him. He did not cave who he was or what he was. If he could not do il iugide that; House ha would do it outside.

Mr Hutchisen (cooliy) : Ob, you are quite welcome. I have never objected.

The Hon. John M'Kenzie in a further inflammatory speech B»id there was a Book of Revelation yet to b? written, and if they were to have private affairs investigated in this colony they would have it all round He went on to refer to what he termed the East Coasb affair. The Natives there were robbed, and the hon gentleman helped to rob them. The Chairman again interfered and asked for the withdrawal or oucb remaiks.

Mr M'Kenzie agreed, and added that tha hon. gentleman acted as solicitor for a company who robbed the Natives That was tho nearest he could get to it. — (Laughter, in which the galleries joined.) After this deb.\te quieieicd down somewhat, and the supper adjournment followed, Mr Ward was not in the House for some time, and shortly after midnight, Blr G. Hutchison, after a silence of some hour*, speaking very quietly, asVed for further information regarding his (Mr Hutchison's) mission to Scotland. He would like Mr Ward to pursue the Blatter a little further. He bad never referred to Mr Ward's private affairs, except in relation to bis public position. Mr Ward said a certain lawyer waa sent to Sco'laud by a clieut to make ir.quiries regarding an estate. This lawyer, Mr Ward said ii> effscr, profited at the expense of hia client. In replying to an interjection, Mr Ward said tbe mroe of the client was Govdor, and Mr Hutchison was the lawyer. Mr Hutchison: "Absclute'y without the slightest foundation. In fact, 1 never heard oE it. Absolutely baseUs»." Mr Ward said the responsibility must be placed on the shoulders cf a gentleman in a very high j.o'-itiou in Wellington. Mr Hutchison : " Name him." Me Wurd said he would aek his authority to do so.

At 1 a.m. Mr Taylor rose and made a sensational speech. He charged Mr Ward with a transaction in cwni>ectien with New Zealand consols that would have caused the impeachment of any Ministry in Englard at any tirao duriDg the pa&t 200 years. Correspondent c had taken place with regard to tVe investment in Nt>w Z-aUnd consols o£ £100,000 of the Bink of Nf=w Zealand guarantee, 'ibis sum had beeu takeu out of the Bink of New Zca'at.d and placed on deposit with the Colonial Bank. This was at a lime when the overdraft of the member for Awarua, then Colonial Treasurer, was standing ab nearly £100,000 in the Colonial Bank. That was a transaction that should have brought about the impeachment of the Ministry of the day.- It waa an utterly sc*nd&loun fciausaction.

Tho Premier is nowsiesking as Ibe telegraph office is about lo close. He dei.ied Mr Taylor's assertion with regard to tbe consols transaction. There is still likely to be a long di«cn.<>sion. July 2*. Though the House sat iill 6 o'clock ou Saturday morning, little progress was made with the Banking Bill. Mr Dubhie, referring to the balance nheeta of tho buik, pointed out several items which ha considered required explanation. It appeared to him that thira was an assafe of £63.000 with nothing re^ly behind it. If this was so the officers responsible for the balance sheet were unworthy of the cotfi Jence placed in them.

The Minister for Lands said there was no reason for the ciittomers of the bink to fear whila tha SWte wai behind the bank. He did not say there was anything purposely wrong or misleading in the balance sheets, but they did not go th« length of giving the whole truth, and notbieg but tho buth.

At a later stage the Premier admitted there was nothing againsb the £68 000 referred to by Mr Duthie. He referred to the necessity for the change! proposed in his bill, but declined, or waa unable, to give the House any definite information as to the reason for makir>g this statement. He saidheknoiveertain thiugg about the sft\irs of the bank, but his tongue was tied and Irs hand* were tied. He had confidential information th«.t lie could nob disclose. Ab this stage the Premier appeared to be getting very argry. and he charged Mr Duthie with bein<; thomouthpiecs of another bank. This Mr Dathio indignantly deaied ag an unjust, and foul charge. There was not a s'n'atfow of evidence to support tho sWjtm-Hj. No man stood in » more independent position than he did. He owed no man a single i-cuDypiece, and bad alsvaya done Ins besb according to his intelligence and his conscience for the interests of the colony. The Premier accordingly was compelled to withdraw hi* words.

Subsequently Mr Tay'or- spoke very severely in regard to Mr Ward's actions in bolstering up the Cjlonial B*nk ab the time when he was Colonial Treasurer, and was frequently intenupled and contradicted by Mr Ward. Mr Taylor went on to refer to the statement made by Mr Tegetroeier, and published by Mr Ward in the Wellington papers on tbe eve of the late by-election. This statement wa» to the effect that the Bank o£ New Zealand had nothing to do with the underwriting of a certain company with whicb the name of the late Colonial Treasurer was connected. The very next day, however, (.be manager of the bank wrote another letter withdrawing his former statement and publishing an addition, to the effect that the lUnk of New Zealand had had something to do with the flotation of that company. If the ex-Treasurer was ablo to get a statement of that kind from the manager, it showed that tbe bank was got at, for he had published a false statement over the signature of the bank manager.

At length, after much unseemly discussion and wrangling, the House proceeded to consider the clause of the bill. The Committee spenb eight hours on one clause The amendments lo the Banking Bill brought dowu on a supplementary Order Paper on Friday provide that the directors shall consist o£ six members, of whom two shall be appointed by the Govemor-in-Council, two shall be elected by the shareholders of the bank, one shall be elected by the members of the Legislative Council, and one shall be elected by the member* of tbe House of Representatives. Of the two directors to be appointed by the Goveriior-iu-Council. one shall be a resident in tho North and one in tbe South Islaud. The same applies to the directors to be elected by the members of Parliament. They shall hold office for three years. The following new clause is to be inserted to follow clau»e

17: — "Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in any act, the bank may from time to time write down in like manuec as in the case of bad debts such of its assets as consist of trading concern?, buildings acquired from the Colonial Bank of New Zealand, and goodwill paid to the Colonial Bank of New Zealand, and expenses incurred in connection with the conversion or payment of debentures." The Premier proposes to add the following new clause to clause 18 of last year's bill • — " Section 53 of the last- mentioned act ('The Bank of New Zealand aud Bulking Act, 1895') is hereby repealed, and in lieu thereof ifc is hereby enacted that the balance sheet and statement of accounts of the bank shall be made up anuually to the Slat day of ftlcrch in each year, and a copy thereof, certified as correct uuder the hand of the auditor, shall aa soon as the aamo is available be laid before Pailianieut if in session, or if not then within ten days after the commencement of the next ensuing session thereof." Now that the House has affirmed th»t the number of the board of directors of the Bank of New Zealand shall bo s"x, of whom four shall be appointed by the Gavernor-in-Council and two shall ba elected by the shareholders of the bank, the Premier will not move his proposed Alternative clauses providing for the election o? two members, one by each House of the Legislature.