POLICE COMMISSION.
The Police Commission commenced their sittings on Thursday in Dunedin at the Town Hall, when there were present— Messrs H S. Wardell (chairman), J. W. Poynton, and Colonel Pitt. Policacjmmissioner Tunbridge, ex-Police-coiamissiunor Colon 1 Hume, Mr T. X T..ylor, 11 11 R., and Inspector Pardy were also in attendance. The Chairman, iiefote proceeding with the comnvssiot;, asked the press representatives to bs careful in reporting wh.it mi#ht be baid. There was a good deal which came before the commission which was not evidence, and great mischi»f znight btt done by refeience t> it being made in the public prints, more especi.ill> as remarks were fonietimes as=ociattd with the names of individuals agiin'-t whom for the time being no charge had been fi">rmul.*ted He was sure their own good sense woulu suggest to the reporters the impo.tance of the matter he had mentioned, and th.j responsibilities of newspapers ought to teach them to be cautious in inserting matter which might not be privileged and which might be aUunded witk consequences of a peculiar character. The first witness called wa3 "Willi.-un ritone t^rdy, inspector of police at punedin, who stated that he had been 28 years in the police service, in thf colony. He joined the aimed constabulary in iS7O Piior to that he had been in the Victoiia mounted polios. In this distiict everytntiirf iv tonncctiou with the police force was at present going on very #niooth]y and the police duties we-e pio.erlv carried out. With ran; exception- ha had a very sober l^t of men Ha had had some very b-td characters in the force s'nee he h-ul been hue, but they had been got rid of. There were 111 men in the force in this di-i-Iricfc at the present time, and five first-class sergeants The gseat drawback to the force was recruiting men from the artillery. A very inferior class of men were got from the artillery. They were very unsteady, and, he was sorry to s.iy, very untruthfu'. Su far a<< he himself was concerned he had no complaints to make, but there wen a tew things he would Jike to suggest for the gooo of the force. From his long experience he should say that promotion in the forca should be de ermined by fitness. If ficness and senioiity went together the combiuation should have the pref-rcuce of promotion ov<-r titness alone, but to promote men bs (■eniority alone would be to destroy the tfflcency of the force entirely, as there would be no such thing as uuul itioa, and nothing to induce men to ex^rt themselves. For a long lime— S'Uce the amalgamation of tbe provinces — the t/oiice forc-i in the south had been over officered both in regard to commissioned and non-commi&si >ii"d officers, the re^ilt h(-ing that promotion for years past had been almost nil The great cause of discontent in the f.n-ce was tbe continuous political interference of members of Parliament If they would let the force alone an \ leave officers to conduct it he thought, there would be very little causa of complaint 1' was n >', go d men that went in for political >uf!ueaee. they stood on their merits, but when they <-aw through political influence., men who did not 'ies-erve it get promotion they uaturally felt aggrieved. This political interference with the p .lice was not, » thin? of to-day or yesterday, but it had been going on ewr since the amalgamation of the provinces. Tie thought, that a ma;i who &ottght political influence ought to be (tismiesed from the force. If tl)3,fc was oace done very littl=s more « ould be heard of it. The real work of tbe police was done by a few euergetic men. Thf bwlanc" simply filled up the rank and fib by doiug ordinaty street duty. The real mental work was c >t,fi.ied to the few, atid to do that work efficiently it was often necessary to follow up crime day and night through all torts of weather and to stop at nothing ; otherwise a chance would probably be lost of bringing a ciiminal to justice. Where men iJid this work there mu't be some reward — not a pultry reward of a pound or two, bus some advancement in the force. Unless there was S'ime such leward men could not be expectf-d to do their duty well. With regard to the men who nawly joined the torce, they received £120 a year. He ceitiiinly considered that inadequate. A policeman's life was a hivA one at the best. He was exposed %•> all wea^hera stnd he must turn out night and day if duty required it ; and, as a general rule, his health broke down locg before that of a man in other esuplojmtints. Directly they donne-i the unif inn ar.d they were sent oa the streets they were subject to terA;>tarions that no other cla'S of oflicUls were subject to, and their present pay was Q< 3d per tticm. Then id had to be deducted off that for intrirance. It also cost him at least 6 i a, diy for uuiform. Then a married nvm was obliged to live for the convenience of the service as nesr as possible to th» centre of the ciiy, where rents wi-ro highe&t. It Is Cd par diem was also deducted frim his pay for rent he was left with a mere pittance tv keep his wife aud family on. He was also at a disadvantage in this way : that he oou'd not supplement his pay in any way. lie could not live decently and in no possible way could he make provision for old age or sickness. As legards the question of a superannuation allowance he (the inspector) looked ur>on that a« almost imperative if it was wished to keep up the efficiency of the police force. At present the few pjunds that a pol'coman might save through ec"nomy and carefulness vi ould slip through his fingers before he knew where it had gone, and he would be left in his old age in penury and poverty through no fault of his own. Now with regard to a superannuation allowance, it was simply useless to t-lk about the police getting it when they were 6'J years of age. Not half the men in th» force would remain till they were CO. They broke down long before that. A superannuation allowance should l~e calculated upon a basis of years of service. He would suggest that a pension be paid according to the length of the period a man had been in the force, that the periods at which I'cnsinns should be payable should be 15, 20, 25, and 30 years. The nieoical examination ou entering the force should be very strict and not a mere perfunctory one. In Australia each of the police xorces had a pension fund based somewh-it on thi principle he had mentioned. lie would suggest that the commissioners of police in Sydney and Melbourne be written to and asked to foiward the rules and regulations of the funds there, and also a copy of the statutes relating to them. Iho Kew Zealand police was the only police in the British Empire that had no pension fund. He thought that the pension fund should ba established by a deduction out of themen's pay. Tbe necessity of life insurance ■would iliiMi no longer exist. At the present time the men were assured to receive a certain amount at 60 years of age; but mow tlraa half of the men would be out of tbe foi c i before they were 59 simply through their health breaking down. They could not keep up their piyuients after they left the force, and would simply have" to accept the surrender value of their policies The police was the only department in the GovernniHnt service in which the men bad to find their own uniforms. Instt-ad of giving men long-service pay, it would be far better for the Government to give something towaids assisting a pension fund. The present long-service men were men who had done good service in their time, and in a few years the longservice pay would be extinct. In lvply to the Chairman, Witness Slid he did not think th it £V2O a year was sufficient to keep a man honest, nud when they were only paid that they could not be blamed for giving way to temptation. The smalUess of the payment discouraged marriage, and where men married they brought poverty ou their wives ana families. 'I he meu in the police force should be paid better than the ordinary jun of men, because they were placed under such disadvan ages that they could not supplement their income and must do duty at all limes. He did not think that the exeicife of the franchise had been injurious to the efficiency nf the force. He, however, fchould say that the whole of the Government officials rfbould be .struck off the t lec'oral rolls. To make an exception ot the police would be to throw suspicion on a body of men who, as a rule, were very honest. Speaking for himself, nobody ever ,\ l^i d him to vote, and he did not troi'biu to do m>. Some constables' wives were very active in politics. While that was the ca r e he dul not see tLu it, would be much use to take away (he f' i,uhi <• iiom their husbands Co.jt iii"itjf<, Wilness s-iid with legarcl to lice'ifciti;', 'nattct . the police were considerably abUAt-ti foi not enforcing a Ipav which did
1 not in reality exist. Take first the que3- ■ tion of gambling. It was no offence against the licensiug laws for any number of people— loafers or otherwise — to play cards for any amount of stakes ali night long, or all day on Sunday. It was also no oft'enca for a licensee to have a house fulJ of local residents, aud keep the house open all night, or all day on Sunday, and sell any amount of liquor, if he had a lodger with an elastic conscience who would swear thit he paid for the l'.quor. It was, further, no offence to supply liquor to a drunken man. To be an offence the 1 quor must be sold. Again and again the police in bunedin had visited houses on Sundays late at night, or in the morning during prohibited hours, and had found a large number of men there who were neither boarders nor travellers, and yet they had seen no drinking going on. No doubt the drink had been cleared away before they got in. The police were powerlass. All they could do was to go in and come out again. The act cf 1881 he considered a disgrace to the Statute Book. He believed the English act was taktn as a model, but the act baaed on it was so emasculated as to reader it unworkable. In statutes of far less importance to the community than the L : cansiug Act it was made compulsory for persons suipected of contravening the law to give their name and addre&s, and if they gave a false name anrt address a severe penalty attached to the offence. But under the Licensing Act no such provision was made, and a constable or sergeant of po'ice might go into a hotel, and although he might be convinced iv hi 3 own mind that the peraoirs there were neither travellers nor lodgers, and although he asked them to give their names with tho view of calling them as witnesses ijo could not enforce an answer.' There ought, therefore, to ba a clause in tbe Licensing Act compelling parsons found on licensed premises during piolnbiied hours to give their names and addresses. It ought also be sufficient to prove that liquor was fcupplied without proving that it was sol' l. Further than that there should be a penalty for any parson other than a boarder or relative of the licensee's family to be ou the premises after licencing hours. The majority of hoielkeepers were anxi<.vis to observe the law, but wliere it was not cumpulsory they were at a disadvantage, because the man who did not; want to observe it undermined the : r business. The lic'.nse.i houses in Dunedin were, on the whole, remarkably well conducted. If or.c went into them one would .-ca:cely know that they were not private houses, especially during prohibited hours and oa Suna'py. H^ had of Leu gone into thtm himtelf on * Sunday. But unfortunately ponu* in 'he trade would rot let a shilling pass thi'iu ;f they could help it ; and these we. - c the m--ii that the polica had to contend with. It waj in ordtr to get at these men that he thould like to acs th.-- law xna.de work -b'.e Considering the largvj population and the moratory natures of a portion of it, he thought that there had been a decrease ia drunktnne&s during the last two or thiee jerus. Hi? expeiience was that; drunkenne-s varied according to the prospsiity of the times. In prosperous timts not only druukenmsa but other c hues were more prcvalo it tbau they werp iv depre-ued times. The Chairman : The* in the last few yaara you have nor, h:id veiy prosperous times in Dunedm? Witness : Oh, yes ; I think things have improved duiing the last few years. The Chairman : And yet >ou say that drunkenness has decreased within the last few years? Witness said that was his own imprer-sion, but he was rnvt very positive » n the point. He would give statistics at another time. 110 thougb*. that tLere bhr-uld be a number of yo-iDK men in the force on probation at a certain late of pay, aud that within a reasonable period they should g-t an innrea^e of pay. The pay should be ir.Ciea-ed according to the years of service, and men should lw eive special promotion for special service, '(.here was nothing more destructive to efficiency ia Ihe force than to have aa ignoramus over intelligeut men, which v^oull be the ca*e if preference were given in regard to promotion merely for seniority. He consideied that i ecruits ir> the force 'should be put through instruction and should bs compalled to get a knowledge of the laws which they had to enforce. They should certainly have a knowledge of the Criminal Code, the Summary Indictments Act, and the by-laws \hs) bad to entoice. He thought thn re:niits should be given instruction in \VYIWgtob at the central depot, and that they should be irame'l ther<} before they werd sent, out to sta' tioriS.He * asstrongly in favourof thettistrii'ts being larjtt- At onetimo there was far 100 much Bupsivi'ion iv the service, but now they had rui to an opposite extreme. His siiggestton was that ia all the large centres there should be a subordinate officer— a sub-inspector. For a 3 on< time he hid t-t en that this was absolutely necessary to the f fficiency of the forc<». He wss himself working ii hours a day, and found tV.e work too much for him. If a serious ci-ima took plaes in any part of a district the iuspecfor, with the best, effective talent h- could get, should be ou the spot as quickly as possible. Regarding detectives and li-.tels he expressed the opinion thai, it was the duty of a detictive, if he saw a disturbance or wio>>gdoing at an hotel, to report it to his officer. It was a paltry excusa to say that a detective had to "chum up" wi";h pubHcans. The les3 the detectives were in ymblichiutses the better. He had always found that respectable publicans were ready to give information, and he thought that to screen publi cans who b) oka the law for the sake of catching eliminate was th<? biggest farce imaginable and ought not to be tolerated. Regarding art unions, there should be amended legislation ; a list of articles to be drawn bhould be submitted to the Colonial Secretary before he gave his permit, and the priza lists should not be add j d to in any shape or form There was a good deal of betting on horse racing and sports, but there was no "tote shop " here now. The proprietor of the last oae had been lined and the place suppressrtd. To Colonel I'ifet : The police force in the district was now in a satisfactoiy state, but there were two or three black sheep. He believed the men alluded to hung too much about publichou*>'es, but they would not let themselves hi caught. Sometimes niftdical men were imposed upon to g'-aot certificates, and instances bad come under his notice in which he believed wilfully fatse certificates had been given To such cases h • did not recommead the dismissal of the men, beciuse though he was sa T isfied in his own mi--d he could not adduce proof. Some years ago he had been imposed upon by a doctor's certificate, had reported the matter, and the mau had been dis-naiss-d. He had sufficient men and non-rommis-sioncd officers for the work of the district, but would like v. subordinate officer to as&i^t in the work of supeivisinsr. Political influence affecting the fece had exi-ted to a larg« extent, but rf-cevtly he hai not seen so much of it. Men had thrown it in his face that they could overltile him and the c immis-sioner too. Two or three years ago this had been done. The man who did it had been dismissed since, but not for that, and he had not reported it but had administered a severe caution. Lec'ures ou their duties were given to the men by himself once a month, if possible, and the sergeant in charga also g*ve instructions. Efforts hai been made -to suppress sly grog selling, and these to a. large extent had been successful, but could not be entirely -.o under the present law. He thought that all persons found on premises where liquor was illicitly sold should be subjecb to a penalty, unless they were hona, fide lodgers. In the force here all the men wotked amicably together ; there was no jealousy he knew of. When there was jealous\ his expeiieuce was that it was the fault of the detectivts. To the Chairman : Within the last few months the men had beea more ameaable to instruction, and he considered that political interference had been diminishing during that period. He thought confidential reports weie a mistake aud that everything should be clear and above board, but was also of opinion that in exceptional circum- ' fctauces a confidential report recommending removal, but not dismibsal, might be made. Sometimes when a charge could not be established there might exist circumstances sufficiently suspicious to warrant the removal of a man. He was of opinion that there should be a period_ at which tho defaulteis' sheet should be cleared, if no fresh charges had been made. To Commissioner Tunbridge : Witness said inconvenience did arise from the change of men on etcort duty. 'What he meant was assuming no men were on leave, none on vacant duty, and none sick he should have enough men. Sometimes in Dunediu he was five or six men short. Tha only remedy was to
give more men. Sometimes he could scarcely man the streets, and he had great anxiety about it. There ought to be a reserve of three men, and a sergeant on night duty at the station. What he m«ant was that if every man was available he could manage. He thought men of 40 were too old for eniclment in the force ; old men could not be trained. No tranifeis had bs - en made by Commissioner Tunbridge without inquiry having been first made of him. Witness was satisfied on many oceasious that he waa being deceived by a, doctor's certificate when he could not possibly prove it. lie considered a pension for the men preferable to a retiring allowance. He would not advocate a compulsory retiring age Some men were better at CO than others atso. and he thought that sonje men of 60 — he woul'f instance himself— were quite fit for any police duty they could be put to — arresting a rough, or doing any other duty If there was a pension he could see no objection to compulsory retiiemrnt of old men; but some of his be^t men were old men, and he would not lika to see anything done to them that v/ould be hard and unjust. It was impossible in thepresen:. state of the law to st p stteet betting-. All tho ijolicecoultl do was to ask the people to move ot. If they did not they could be summoned for obstructing the traffic ; but their names •rould not b* aeniinded, and if they were uct known uotLir.g could be done. Betting in the street w»s not illegal. He thought that wherever bett'ng took place should be made "a place for beti ng," so that it would bu illegal in the street as elsewhere. To Mr Taylor : In 1890 he was ordered to remove, and the order was countermanded. Captain Kussell wi>s then Minister for Defence 'Ihe mem . under which his removal was ordered siiated that he was to lelieve Inspector Moore, and said : "You will pay special attention to the suppression cf the liquor trade within prohibited hours, which has hitnerto been supposed to have been unchecked by the police." He did not know if.there was any correspondence on the file protektiDg against his, removal, and on searching could find f.oue Mr Taylor : Iljive you reason to believe that thosfi interested in the 1 quor trade here moved to prevent your removal from Caranaki?— Witness: i know no'h'.Bg of my own knowledge, but I have Lcard rumour- th\t an agitation was got up agunst Inspector aioore's removal. It was stated in the newspapers that an agitation was got up against Inspector Moore's removal from Dunedin, and it was alleged that his removal was stopped by the liquor interest. Political influence had been going oa iv connection with ihe f orce ( <iv the 1-st 3i years, and he thought it had got gradually wor»e. . Mr aylor : When was there less political influeijc*?—Witness : Under Captain Russell there WB* little political influence exened. Then it must haw got worse since his retiremeut ? — There is no question about that ; it has beea worse. During the last six months it has been dying out ?— Well, I havo not seen so many signs of it. Wnei an order his been givhii it has.beec obeyed. N^iurjiUy m ousfh, n:e j will be insnb'•rdinate when they know there i 3 a pjwer behind i'sie throne If meu ku«w they can get a member of Parliament; to oppose anything an inspector or commi tfioner suggests, n.iturally they will do it. That has been d-me repeatedly, and I cannot help <- - ay ing it Wiuies-s continued : Gons;able Atcheson was the c-iiistable who had overruled him. Ha hac been «i;sini«[.ed since. Det-ctive Henderson had aho denV'l him, and ?aid t^at be had greater P'>we' -haw tho iuspecnt>r. Of course he must have meo-ut political powej, for there was nothing else bis reuiiu-if could refer to. The matter had not b<=en Teporte., because it wouM have beett placing v .i* word against the detective's. There would have beeu no other evidence, and so he had to put up vvirli i He did note msider Hendersou an efficient officer. Mr Taylor : r hat were his habus ? Colonel Pitt ; We are getting into an inquire about Heiidersor. without hw being here. 1 there is a charge against Henderson he must be pn-eent. ' Mr r l aylor : Then we had better cany him round with us. Does the commission propose to bring Hendeison here? Tlik Cb;urm«n: We are bound if a charge, is marie fgaiu.--!. him 'o give, him notice. If you propose ti> adduce evidence »ffecl.ing his personal character he oug \t ;o be here to hear it. Mr ! aylor: Perhars tbis will be taken. Diyou have occasion to report Henderson for negleci. of duty? Witne s rt plied that the , reporting was not ex-.<"tly for m-glect of duty, but for acting imprt'perlv in connecfiou with a prosecution for an hid rt^ble ■•ffuijce, by withdrawing the information ar.O aliowin a. charge of larreny to be suh-*tuu"-e when th j case bho ihi tave been sen !■ back 10 Greymt-uth, tht-iv to brf dealt with. He did not apply for D -te^tive H>»»'ders»n's removal, but sugeested it tv « ->louel Hume. No official complaint hal been made io him of Henr.ers n by the citi-z-ns People would make complaints, but when aiked if they would come forwaid and provo it they would sa> "JNo, no." These informal compliints were mace re pet.ting his duties and hiss habits. These rrnjplaifts were never mentioned to Hendeisou. Unle.s people would support cornp^inti they were put aside, unless they were very serious and then fuither inquiry would be made. Witness rtmembered the order *:eing given as to court orderlies being retained for three month'! only. Cous 1 able May ne was court orderly at the time. When the period had expired he wished to reolace M^yne, but received a teleg am stating thvt the order did uoc apply to Cunssanle M'jyne and to others holding the office at thf time the order was made. Mayne held the po.iitioa until he was transferred to i hristchurph, and the effect was to preveut other men getting experience as ourfc orderlies. -ers,eant O'Neill was cinstautly bringing Mayne in with a complaint, Mayne being one of the most peevish and discontented men he hid i-vermet. The appointments to country stations had all been made'from headqiiHr'erawith'out witness being consulted up 111 1 within the last two months. He thought it woula have beon better if Sergeant irhirley had not been seat back to Dunedin. He lv>d been a long time la Dumdia before, and that was not good for ihe force. He- elieved it had been f.he custom of men to go to the breweries at night to drink beer, but he had stopped it. He had-been informed that bter had been taken fiom the brewery to the mtss table. No fight between the constables in Spe ght's brewery iv June, 1896. had heen reported to him— he had never had the hjightest hi -t of it. There had been no beer at the mess table for al. ng time. He had repeate l.v attempted to stop sly grog-selrng in the Clutha, and his efforts had 'i»en frustmed by his plans leaking out. No one but the v.en knew of his plans. At the time he considered there were men in tbe force who nevsr ought to have been there. He had attempted to ascertain the culprit?, but without succesu. On one occasion it was reported to him that his plan of starching for liquor was public property at (Jlulhsi before hia men arrived there The same thing had occurred at Tapanui. With respect to the Clutha he had/ reseived all assistance from the department. Ihe commissioner had given him a free hand and every la itude, but owing to the imperfections of the law it had been always an up-hill fight. After the first attempt or two he had trusted no one with his plans until the last moment, when he took the men he could beet trust. He could not trust the Eailsvay department. The men travelled on passes, and it was found out immediately «f ter men arrived at a place that they had gone there oa secret, duty. _ fie had heard of one guard boasting of having " given the police away." Mr Taylor : What has been the attitude of the magistral e. towards you ? Witness: Mr Hawkins? - Mr/Taylor : Yea. . Witness : Oh, well, except in one ease, where he wrongfully, accused a constable of telling false-hoods,-I cannot say I have any complaint against him. Mr Taylor : Do you think the fines are adequate ? The Chairman ; He cannot give evidence as to that. Mr Taylor : I should sey so. The magistrate frequently threatened to increase the fines if certain offenders came up a second time. I ask If the fines were increa^ed on those persons? The Chairman : I won't allow it to be asked. Commissioner Tunbridue said he should object to police officers being asked to pass judgment on J>lr Taylor said he would submit to tfce chair..
man, but he objected to interference from Inspector Tunbridge. He would ljJce the reports from Clinton, Clutha, and Tapanui as to the evasions of the law placed before the commissioners, and intimated that he wouM deal with this branch of the inquiry on the following day. Witness resumed : The detectives now here were Detectives O'Biien and M'Grath, and the plain clothes constables were Constables Oooney and Boddam. In this district witness had selected the plain clothes constables. Mayne had been sent to Ohristchurch as a plain clothes constable, but with that he had had nothing to do. Witness had not received a reporG as to " tote " shops until he had asked for one, telling the officers where these Bhops were. After that he received a report, ' an arrest was made, and a conviction obtained against one, but the other had been given up. In the "tote" books there were names similar to those of some of his men, but the men denied that they were their names, and only surnames •were given. He had no reasou previously to believe that his men were engaged in betting, and he warned them that if they did engage in it he should recommend theirdismissal. Last Christmas Day it was reported to him by Sergeant Conn that Constable M 'Donald was drunk on his beat. Sergeant Conn said the constable on the next beat said the man was not drunk, and he asked witness to go down and see to it, remarking that he (the sergeant) was not safe among the men. Witness went down, and found Constable M'Donald staggering along the footpath. M'Donald had been dismissed. The constable who had said he was not drunk ■was sent for, and at first stiil said M'Donald was not drunk, and then admitted that he was under the influence of liquor. Witness recommended that M'Donald should not be dismissed, as he was an important witness in a murder case and might disappear. Commissioner Tunbridge at first ob- ' je'cted to this and desired the man's dismissal, but afterwards accepted the recommendation, the man being' reduced and fined. Afterwards the man was again reported upon a rhavgo on whick he was required to resign. M'Donald did not have sick leave, but he was sick ; that was, the doctors certified that he was suffering from sciatica at one time and from influenza at another. Commissioner Tuubridge : I may say I am very reluctant to rise at all,, but I think it will be necessary for me to engage the Crown solicitor, because I feel I am not properly representing the department. This man's services have been dispensed with in connection with the report Mr .Tardy is now being questioned upon, and I subrait, with due deference, this is outside the commission. Mr Taylor : Jf that is the charge he was dismissed upon I know I cannot ask a question upon ifc. Witness continued : He did not inquire personally as to the man's condition, but sent two sergtaiits, and the man's wife would not let them iv. That was on the fiist occasion. A bhort time ago a number of men were down with influenza, and with the exceptioo of this case he believed they were all gent! inc. Of this case he was auspicious. Sergeant O'Nfiill had never been ordered for removal ; and he would not wish to see him removed, for he was a very good man. Constable Ward, bow in Lawrence, had been convicted of drunkenness and insubordination. Witness had asked that, out of reg-xid for previous good conduct, he should not be dismissed, and he had been punished by Colonel Hume by fine and reduction. Ward was not in charge of Lawrence. Witness knew of houses occupied by prostitutes, but he did not know of any brothel iv the city, that was a- brothel in the legal sense of the term , —that was, a place where people traded on the prostitution of others. There were houses in •which prostitutes lived by ones and twos upon the proceeds of their own prostitution, but he knew of no place that could.be called a brothel within the legal meaning of the term. Colonel Pitt : You spoke of disloyalty in the foice. Hjvg yon any rea?on to think thisre is any disloyalty iv the force now ? Witness : No. Mr Taylor intimated that his examination would occupy a considerable lime, and as it was 5 o'clock the fur 'her examination was postponed. ' Commissioner Tunbridge said he had_ risen to I object- to a question and had cot been Allowed to ; urge his objection. He thought it most improper that a police offieey should be asked to pass judgment on a magistrate. He stiil maintained • thai the question was one that should not be put. The Chairman : And so I held, and stopped it. Commissioner Tunbridge : What I wish to be understood is this : If I am not to be allowed to interpose in any question of that kind I have j been instructed to engage counsel to represent the Police department. The Chairman : I think I clearly explained your position here. We are glad to hear you, and to give you every facility to watch over the interests of the department of which, under the Minister, you are the head ; but in this case there was no necessity to ripe, for I had already ruled, - and that was why I refused to hear you. Under similar circumstances I should refuse to hear you or counsel. Commissioner Tunbridge said he did not under- i stand at the time the chairman had ruled, and remarked that it wa3 almost impossible to hear in ■ the room. Mr Poynton said : You have all the rights of counsel ; counsel could do no more, and we look ' upon you as counsel. j The sitting of the commission was then ad- I jouyned until 10 o'clock next morning. ! Ihe Police Commission resumed its sittings •jii Friday at the Town Hal, when there wsre present— Messrs H. S. Wardell (chairman), J. W. Poynton, and Colonel Pitt. Police-commissioner Tunbridge, ex-Police-commigsioner Colonel Hume, Messrs T. E. Taylor, A. Morrison, and J. A. Millar, M.H.R.'s, and Inspector Pardy were also in attendance. The examination of Inspector .Pardy was re- • sumed. In reply to Mr Taylor he said there was a constable in this district, named Brennan. He •bad no occasion to reprimand him recently, nor fine him. He had weeded out a lot of bad men ■w,ho had joined the force from the artillery, but within the last year or two he had had no great cause to complain. 'I he men had been dismissed, and went about their business. There was a systematic watch ktpt by a few licensed houses in Dunedin. ,The system was to have a man walking up and down outside, and he had some means of signalling inside when the police were coming. Mr Taylor : You have had considerable experience in connection with licensing matters in the way of prosecution ? witness : Ye 3. Whac is your opinion with regard to the veracity of witnesses for the defence ? — That there is very hard swearing. v Do they have a greater disregard for the truth than other witnesses in the witness box ?— There is not the amount of perjury committed in ordinary crime that there is in cases of a breach of the Licensing Act, nor anything like it. In ordinary prosecutions in licensing districts have you not the same difficulty to contend with with regard to witnesses' veracity as you have in the Clutha?— Just the same. Id reply to further questions by Mr Taylor Witness said the constable at Balclutha had suggested plans to him which he (the constable) had thought would enable him to detect sly grogselling. To a certain extent he had adopted the suggestions, and so far as he had adopted them they had been successful ; but a suggestion had been made which he could not conscientiously adopt or approve of. Similar suggestions had come from Tapanui, but he had been waiting for an opportunity to carry out the suggestions. Mr Taylor : As a reault of your observations, clo you think that the same quantity of liquor is being consumed in Clutha now as before the hotel licenses were taken away 1 Witness : Of course not. The idea is ridiculous. It ia very rare indeed to see a drunken man in the Clutha now. Of course there is a licensed house In the Glutha district, and a wholesale license. The wholesale license makes it somewhat difficult Jfor the police to detect cases of sly grog-selling. How many known sly-grog centres do you estimate there are in the Clutha?— Ouly tJnee— Balclutha, Tapanui, and Kelso, about three miles from Tapanui. In those three places that you have named liow many persons do you suppose are engugei in slygpeg soiling at h profit ?— Siace the last set ct »ro-
J seditions I think there have bsen ouly two in Balclutha. Before that there • were more. In Tapanui there are two and in Kel«o two. What kind of business do these people carry on? Do they do a large trade in these four centres you speak of I— Oh, no. I have just been round there, and I have never seen liquor on any man. What has been the action of justices of the peace as regards enforcing the licensing laws?— ! Witness refused to answer this question, and The Chairman said that he need not do so, as i the matter did not come within the scope of the ! inquiry. Mr Taylor: Will you allow me to ask if justices of the peace incited persons to break the law ? The Chairman : No. We cannot allow you to ask a question impeaching a judicial tribunal. Mr Taylor : I would like to ask whether any justices of the peace, as witnesses for the defence in sly grog-selling cases, have admitted that they have incited others to breaches of the Licensing Act? Witness replied that he could not say that, but three justicss who gave evidence at Balclutha admitted that they had purchased liquor in a house at Catlins. I With regard to the frequenting of breweries by j men on night duty, I ask»>d you whether you reprimanded Constable Worthington. Have you • had to speak to men on parade on that very ! habit ? — Ye3. From what I had heard I was led j to warn the men of the consequences if I could prove that they were in— or even if I could find them in— -i brewery. Replying to further questions put by Mr Taylor, Witness said he had not had any complaints about "walking totes" at the corner of Muclaggan i street, but. complaints-bed been made about that ! I portiou of the footpath being blocked up with i Il> spielers " and bstting men, so as to interfere i | with the business of the shops in the locality. j The result of the complaints was that he placed a [ constable there to keep the footpath clear. Witness had not powt;r to summon the men for gambling. The law was a farce so far as gambling was concerned ; and the police were expected Ito enforce statutes that were unworkable. He I did not think he had any occasion to believe that | TaU own men had disclosed the intention of his officers to visit licensed housep, but he had had men capable of doing that. Witness was never, except in one instance, interfered with by his superiors in the perfoimance of his duty. The ! exception he referred to was many years ago be- [ fore the amalgam ition of the proyinces, and he thought that nil who were concerned in the interference were dead and gone. Commissioner Tunbridge : With reference to [ Constable M'Donald, who had been dismissed, at ! first I did not refuse to accede to your recommendation that he should be retained in the force ? Witness : J said that in my evidence yesterday. ' And it was only on your statement tba*. you feared that a case would be prejudiced that I per- , mitted him to be retained in the force ? — Yes. . la reply tp Colonel Hume, Witness said he t did not think that many constables abstained . from carrying out their duly from want of knowledge. If anyone told him so he would be somewhat surprised. Colonel Hume : Do you know any constable in your di*tr:ct occupying a subordinate position who servtd with ability and distinction while others, with nothing to recommend them but political influence, have been placed in positions they were utterly incapable of filling properly ? Witness: That is too strong. I d.. not know of a sing^ instance. Whoever said that, I think, must have < xaggerated. Further, questioned by Colonel Hume, Witness said some special promotions were made yeav3ago which caused coma discontent in the forre. Those who were passed over were di'satiffied. There were always a certain number of men discontented in the force, but. he did not know of auy discontent at the present time. There was not the slightest doubt ' but that there were a few men who imagined they were not treated rightly. Colonel Hume : Have you ever been deterred in any way by your superior officers from carrying , out the liquor laws ? Witness : No. I have had every assistance. I ' have had a free hand to do everything I thought necessary to be done ; and 1 have had jily grog convictions all over the district. I ttiink the fines for sly grog-selling amount to about j£lloo in this district. Since I have been a member of ihe force I have never been interfered with, either by my superior officer or the Government, in auy shape or form in the performance of my duty; and I think other inspectors are in the same position. i Then I take it that you believe that the Govern- ] ment desire to have the liquor law strictly | enforced ?— I understand that. i Witness continued : The circular about court < orderlies said that "in future" they w*re i to do go-anti-ge. He read it that the then I holders of that office were to retire at j the expiration of three months, and others j were to be appointed. Afterwards he was in- ' formed he bad misread the order, and that it did ! not apply to those then holding the position. , Mayne had been made court orderly because he ] seemed rather delicate and not strong enough for street duty. Complaints against detectives and police were not uncommon ; he was continually getting anommoun complaints. He could not understand a fight taking place in a brewery , between policemen without his getting wind of it, but it was possible that -such a. thing had happened. He had heard~of this for the first time yesteiday, and they might be cure he would not I let it stop where it w as. j Colonel Hume : Is it not a fact that a pro- | bibitionist gave you away at Clutha on one occasion ? Witness : That was on another occasion, not on those I have mentioned. There was an attempt ! to do it, but I was too quick for them. I had warrants to search three houses, and I had them searched simultaneously. When two of my' men w«nt to search one house, a prohibitionist bolted off to another to tell them that the police were searching So-and-so's house and were coming round to his ; but he was too late, as my men were already there. Those are the facts. Mr Taylor said he had heard of the incident ! before, and would hke to know the prohibiI tionist'a name. [A report vras handed to Mr Taylor.] Witness continued : As far as this district ■vyas concerned the promotions had been according to seniority, with two exceptions. He never i recorded an' offence without informing the constable concerned of it. During the time Colonel Hume was commissioner witness's requests and suggestions had, as a rule, been given effect to. He did not remember any instances where this had not been done. He considered he had been treated propeily by Colonel Hume ; they had worked amicably and had got on well together. To Mr Taylor : The report he had received regarding a house referied to was that it was occupied by an invalid woman, who was in receipt of charitable aid, and who had two young daughters living with her, but nothing had been discovered to justify a suspicion that they lived immoral lives. Mr Taylor said in that case he proposed to go into the question at some length, as this was a typ'cal cabe in which the polica did not exercise the control they ought to. He would ask permission to call witnesses regarding the matter. To Commissioner Tunbridge : Witness thought there were occasions when confidential reports should he made to the commissioner, but they should not be made periodically and respecting every member of the force, and whenever a charge was niade the officer affected should be informed of it. Mr J. A. Millar, M.H.R., who was present, wished to be heard regarding the statements made by Inspector Paidy on the previous day as to political influence. The Chairman said "he could not hear Mr Millar as a member of Parliament, but that if he had any charge to make or any evidence to give the commission would be glad to hear him. Inspector Pardy remarked that he had not made a charge against Mr Millar or any other person, but had simply spoken generally. Mr Millar thought there was a charge against him as one of the members for the district, and said he would like to give evideuce. Tho Chairman : Very well ; we will take your evidence to-morrow morning at 10 o'clock. i Hugh Mulholland gave evidence that he joined | thr uisgo police force on the 2nd February, 1874. 1 Sine 1 that time he had been in charge of a station I for cloie on 21 years. He was a married man and . hv.i a family of sis. He had had charge of. the
Cromwell station since 1890 until a fow days ago, when he was transferred to St. Oilair. On Ist September, 1878, hd was made a first-class constable for his exertions in discovering a fire and saving some thousands of pounds of insurance. Some short time a*o he noticed numerous promotions, and then madeapplication, , for the first time in his life, for promotion. A j reply was received to this application, the pur- ' port of which was that he was such a number on i the Hat of first-class constables, that no sergeant I was required at present, a&d if there were there was no reason why he should be promoted over his seniors Shortly afterwards, Ist January of this yaar, several of hi 3 juniors were appointed third-class sergeants. He felt 2nuoyed at this, and came to the conclusion there was no encouragement to do his duty. He had never looked to political influence, hence his position ; that was, at »ny rate, his opinion. The police regulations stated that they must not look for political influence, and he lived in accordance with that regulation, but had strong veason to believe that others had looked for and had succeeded through political influence. It wh» a common expression among the people, " You cannot expect to get on in the police uules' you have one or two Cabinet Ministers at your back " He had been clerk of the court at Winton ! for 12 years, until he was transferred , from the station, and was also inspector of j slaughterhouses, foivst ranger, and officer of customs under the Beor Duty Act, registrar of dogs, clerk of licensing committee, and bailiff of the court ; aad he believed he bad fillea these offices satisfactorily. There were small salaries attached to tome of theae offices. When transferred to Cromwell he was not allowed any goldfields allowance, and very^ little for the other offices he held. His transfer to Cromwell caused him a serious loss His reason for thinking he should have been promoted waa that he had been 2i years in the service. Witness handed in a list showing that 11 policemen had been promoted though they svere his juniors in the force. In reply to Commissioner Tunbridge, witness stated that his complaint, briefly stated, was that he bad not been promoted by his sergeant. He ! thought he had Iseen over ooked. He had had [ experitnee in the Royal Irish Constabulary. Up I to the present time he had been* in a remote : i country station. If he had done his duty as a ! constable he did n«t see why he should not do it j i as a sergeant, but he bad never got the chance to - \ be a sergeant. He had known illiterate men in New Zealand who were made sergeants. Ha had j no complaint to make against Inspector Pardy, ! who was a very just man so far as he knew. He [ did not know who was to blame for his not I having been made a serg«aut, but ha thought he | had not been rightly treated. Commissioner Tunbridge : Don't you think the payment of over j£l73 a year and a free house is ; sufficient inducement f >v you to do your duty ? Witmss replied that he dirt not think so when other men were getting moie. Further examined by Commissioner Tuubridge, witness said he was stationed at Wintou for 13' years. He would not have felt aggrieved at being removed from Winton if he had been sent to some other station equally lucrative. The other offices he held at Winton never materially interfered with hia police work. When the court sat he had to ba in attendance at the court. To Colonel Hume : Witness could not say who told him that ons could not get on in the force unless one had a couple of Cabinet Ministers at ' one's back. It had often bean said in the streets in Cromweli. He bud never looked tor any political influence. The L imsden station was just as good as Wintou, be t >ought, and the constable there, who was his junior, had be«?n promoted. He did not think that a man should be allowed to remain longer than JO years at one station. When witness was at Winton, Mr David Roacb, of Inveicargill, asked him if he wanted to go to Cromwell, BS, if hs did, he (Mr Roach) had Influence. Witness heard ko more about the matter, but was sent to Cromwell. To Commissioner Tunbridste : Witness applied , to the commissioßer to bs tent near to Dunedin ' for the benefit of his, children. The commissioner ', had acceded to bis request, and that was why lie i was removed to St. Clair. I To Mr Taylor : He had been fined in 1875, »nd I believed he had been fined because he refused to/ dig in Inspector Thomson's garden. Sergeant Titchencr asked him to dig in the garden, saying tKey had all to do it He ref jscd to do so, and ; soon after was fined for a trifling oifence. Ihe > other men did di£ and -were not fined. j Commissioner Tunbridge said he hoped the I witness would not think that anything he had [ said before the commission would do him amy i harm. He would like to assure him that he , would be iv uo way prejudiced by what ho had ] said. ' Witness said be understood that the commis- j siouer had previously told them ihey had nothing | to fear from telling the truth if any complaint < was made, and he accepted that. He had no witnesses to call. He had gone alone, and had made no combination. Commissioner Tunbridge : I hope you will go on refusing to di« inspectors' gardens, and that so also will every constable. Witness said he had never since been asked to dig in an inspector's garden, and that ou the occasion alluded to he was not asked by the inspector. Frederick Mallard, ex-inspector of police for the Dunedin district, said he had charge of the district for seven years some 15 years Bince. He wished to aay at the outset that hs had no feeling in the matter, and that his sympathies were vath the service. In organising a police foice he would make the inspectors understand that they vvsre held, in the first instance, responsible for good ] order and government in their respective districts, i The inspectors should be supplied with sergeants and constables, and each inspector should be, as it were, commissioner in his own district, and would report to his superior officer. Sergeants j were, iv his opinion, the main stay of the police i ; force, and upon them depended greatly the satis- j factory work of the service. Witness then gave j his experience as to organising the police force in i detail. His experience was that the best con- i ■ stables were taken straight from the plough tail ; but there should be a period of probation and a selection made by a board of examiners. As far | as possible he thought nearly all the constables should be natives of the colony ; New Zealandborn lads should have the best chance. After probation and selection the men shqu 1 d be put in uniform and drafted to various districts. There would be no objection to serious breaches of discipline being heard by a board ; but every man ; should have the right to appeal. The board should be subject to Ministerial control ; the Minister should have control, the board should not be absolute. Witness would like to say that so far as he had seen Colonel Hume was an excellent organiser ; he had licked the gaols into shape, and if he had been left alone things would not have gone far astray. Political influence had been the bane of discipline. This had been going on ever since the General Government had taken the force over, and the evil bad become intensified of late. He could not give instances or the facts oil which he had founded j his opinion. The Minister must be the head of the department, but he should be guided by the executive head. He believed that Colonel Hume was being made the scapegoat for the sins of j others. If members of the police could go to a | member of Parliament, then their officers were ' nothing. He (Mr Mallard) would like to have been appointed a member of the commission, because he thought he could have handled the ; thing capitally. Witness *»uuade a distinction between political and Ministerial control. The Ministers of the day had to do almost exactly whit the party wanted. Politics was ouly a game of the " ins " and the " outs," and the Ministers had to do what was required of them. He assumed that mischief was done as the | result of political influence brought to bear upon Ministers. It had been said |by a Minister in Dunedin that the fli'st duty of Ministers was to keep their scats, and they had kept their seats, He had joined the service with the intention of being one day at the head of it, and, owing to political influence, had not succeeded. In his opinion there should be a special examination for the position of sergeant, the candidates being examined in police law, and also as to the control of men. In the matter of promotions personal fitness should take precedence of service. Ouce a man was an inspector he should consider himself always on , duty, and quarters should be provided for him adjoining the police station, There should also
j bs 3 relieving inspector, so that inspeclora might receive two months' leave of absence a year, and the commissioner would by this means be in touch with all the police centres. There should also be two fir«t class sergeants in each section, independent of the sectional sergeant, and one or j other of these should ba always available. If they j wanted an efficient police force the country wonld have to pay for it. At present the police force cost less thau the force in any other colony. He only wished he was Minister over the department ; he would not spend too much money, but he would have an efficient police force. Witness referred to several matters of departmental detail, advised the commissioners to see the men paraded, and notice the working of the system. He als-o said they should never educate the constables to be censors of morality, and added, "Goodness knows police government in any shape is atrocious, though I like police work when it is carried out properly." Continuing, he said he would like to impress upon them the absolute necessity for inspectoi-3 and all members of the force bsing qualified, judicious men of educated cretion ; an_d,_ further, when enforcing the law and maintaining discipline throughout the service, to show no partisanship. Tt>e retirement of officers he thought should be compulsory at 65. As to pensions, they could not form a scheme that could be operative without going to Parliament for money, and Parliament here was deadly opposed to pensions. To Colonel Pitt : He thought that sub-inspec-tors would be too expensive, and that they could be done without. The force had been worke~d well without sub-inspectors. He was not a great advocate for moving men, unless there was a real necessity for it. He thought that inspectors should be shifted oftener than sergeants and constables. An inspector should not be left in a district more than five years. He did not approve of the appointment of chief detectives, but Would have detective sergeants under the inspectors. The Chairman thanked Mr Mallard for hia evidence, as also did Commissioner Tunbridge, and Colonel Hume acknowledged the complimentary references that had been made to himself by the witness. The proceedings were adjourned at 5.10 p.tn. until 10 o'clock next morning. The Police Commission resumed its sitting at the Town Hall Buildings at 10 o'clock on i Saturday morning, all the commissioners being present — namely, Mr H S. Wardell (chairman), Mr J. W. Poynton, and Colonel Pitfe. Mr A. S. Adams, who appeared for Mr John Hay, by whom a complaiut had been lodged, explained that Mr Hay's complaint was that a memo, had been sent to the Public Petitions Committee for the purpose of showing that he (the pres°nt complainant) had spoken untruthfully. This memo, stated that Constable O'Brien had no road lines fenced in in the Middletnarch district, and never had' any. He (Mr Adams) was now authorised by Constable I O'Brien to state that he was not aware of that memo, being sent, and that the memo., though ' technically correct, was substantially untrue. ] The facts were that Constable O'Brien was a . married man, that his wife had bought a sec- ■ tion and erected a dwelling upon it, that thab j building was rented by the Government and | was occupied by the constable and his wife and ; family, and that in connection with this property road lines had been fenced in and cultivated.' This had nob been done to roads ■which bad been opened for tr»Jn>, but to roadlines which the j public had a right to have opened, There were j aho other roadJines running • past Mr Hay's j property which had been obstructed in a similar j way. Mr Hay's "Statements on this matter were therefore substantially accurate, although ; Mrs O'Brien, not her husband, was the person , who held the title. The memo, from tne Taieri | County Council had been sent in answer to a i letter from Inspector Pardy, without communiI cut ion -with Constable O'Brien. They did nor, 'counsel remarked, impute any impropriety to j Inspector Pardy in connection with the matter, | but said that Mr White, the inspector for the ! ; Taieri County Council, aud Mr Kennedy, the I i county clerk, ought never to have sent the i rsemo. With this explanation Mr Hay wisher! i j him fco say thab as he had been advised | that to prosecute the- inquiry before the j commission would mean considerable expense « and loss of time to himself, So the commission, ) I and to the witnesses who would have Id be ' j examined, he did nob propose to proceed further i ( in the matter. j Mr Hay desired to say that whenever he had j called on Inspector Pardy he had been treated in a courteous and gentlemanly manner, and he thought the inspector would, if he had believed he was bsing unjustly treated, have given him redress. He had always heard the inspector ■ well spoken of throughout tho district, and he | desired to say this because, in order to bring j the matter forward, it had been necessary to I lodge the complaint. Inspector Pa,rdy said that when he had made a statement the previous day as to not desiring to have a detective sent to him, fee was reported to have said thab they were a queer lot, and it looked as though he had been referring to tho whole detective force. As a matter of fact hia remark referred to three men, one of whom he was afraid mighb be sent to him. These three men were now all oub of the force. The detectives as a body were honest, respectable men. , With regard to the detectives and plain clothes men in his district, he could say they were ! capable, honest, and energetic, and that he had j the highest respect for them. Ho was in con- ) tact with them daily, and, having every oppor- } tunity of judging, he could say they were i energetic and efficient.. With regard to the ! remission of Constable Atchison'a fine, he might ! say that before the fine was imposed the con- : stable had been cautioned for a similar offence, i no record being made of the offence or the ] i caution, and consequently the commissioner iv 1 i Wellington, when b.B remitted the fine, knew 1 ! nothing about the former offence. He (Inspector j . Pardy), in coming forward to give evidence, ' 1 had placed faith in the special notice which had ' appeared ia the Police Gazette and signed by | Commissioner Tunbridge, which was: "Mem- : ■■ bers of the force have nothing to fear as the 1 result of any statement or complaint they may j • make before the commission." In giving cvi- j dence he had no personal complaint to make : and no personal end to serve. The Chairman : You did not come forward voluntarily ; you were brought forward. ] Inspector Pardy : I wos not summoned. The Chairman : Well it is nob a voluntarily comiug forward in your case. j Inspector Pardy : My object in coming for- j S ward was for the good of the force and the good i of the public. i j The Chairman ;To give the information you ! ', possessed. You may be quite satisfied with the | assurance thab bas been given you in that notice and by the commission. i Inspector Pardy : I stated in my evidence thab the police had been subject to political influence. Thab remark had reference to a period extending over 20 years. I cast no reflection on any Government or on any Minister or on any particular member of Parliament, and yet before the close of the evidence, before I had lefb the wibness seat, I was attacked and wrongfully accused by a member of Parliament. | The Chairman :Mr Pardy, you are making a speech and not givirjg evidence now. You should not do that. Aud that waß not so J you were nob attacked. j Inspector Pardy :Is a member of Parliamenb I allowed to come forward and attack me p Xbe Chairman: He was not ftttaokiog you.
1 1 He said he found an imputation of political 1 i influence— you were not the flrat^o state that. [ Inspector Pardy :He said I used his name. -\ The Chairman : No, he did nob. '. luspector Pardy : It is rumoured in town — I r heard it rumoured last night — that I am tc ; ; suffer For having freelj and faithfully given my i | evidence, Of course, ifc ia only rumour, bat I ! j am quite prepared to stand the consequences of ; what I have done. I have spoken truthfully | and faithfully. The Chairman : I am sorry you should giva [ heed to such rumours. Colonel Pitt : I think I may tell you that the • .member of Parlianienb you spe.»k of had hi* I name mentioned in Wellington, not here. : Inspector Pardy : I never mentioned it. [ Colorel Pifct : No one ever said you did. , Inspector Pardy eaid that evidence extended over a period of 20 years. He also wished to say something regarding the men who were received by him from the artillery. ; According to the report he had said thab all the j men received from the artillery were unfitted ! and untruthful. That waa nob the case. Afevr i of the men he had received from the artillery ; were of that character, bub some of the men \ from the artillery were very good — in fact, the ; majority of them were good, though there ware some of them who wore untruthful and unfit foe the police fojce. The Chairman :\You also said that the bad . ones hsd been weeded out ? Inspector Pardy : Yes. J. A. Millar, M.H R , having been sworn, said he would not have appeared before tha commission but for the reports in the press of i Inspector Pardy's evidence, according to which , it appeared that the witness had said that the force had suffered in consequence of the continual interference of members of Parliament. Sa far as he was concerned that statement was ' absolutely incorrect. He had never interfered . with a single member of the force here with the exception of Constable Mayne, about whom he had written to the inspector, and asked if, after 20 years' service in the force, Mayne could not be put, on plain-clothes duty to see if be was fit to be a detective. Mayne was desirous of being given that chance. Mayne had been a second-class constable in charge of a station, and from the evidence he (Mr Millar) had, he thought Mayne had * grievance. Witness had never interfered wita any individual policeman since he had been member for Dunedin, though he had been twice to the commissioner on matters affecting the members as a whole. Once he saw him on tha matter of promotion, which he thought was very badly | carried out, a* constables senior in the service i had been very frequently passed orer by men j considerably their juniors. The second occasion ou which he had seen the commisioner was : with regard to a man who had been half an ; hcur away from the barracks after hours. The \ man had been called before the inspector, who I said, "Don't let this happen again." They . i could imagine the surprise of the man to find, 1 six years afterwards, the matter entered up against him on the defaulters' sheet. This matter he had* brought under the notice oC Commissioner Hume, with the result that & ; j circular" wa3 immediately sent out to inspectors j notifying them' that when an entry wai made i on the defaulters' sheet the entry was to be at > t oace read over to the man concerned. With , these exceptions he had never exerted auy in- . fiuence about any man. , The Chairman : So far »s you are concerned . you have used not your political influence for the purpose of prcmoting any individual member of the forca with the exception of the case of Mayne. which w.is only thab he should ba ! given a trial as a plain-elotheo constable ? I Mr Millar : That is so, and in the matter of jjj'oe delaulters' sheet asd promotion. '* To Inspector Pardy : He did not know thab J Inspector P*.rdy had telt political inflpeuca actI ing on his men, nor did he know that iv giving evidenca the inspector had nob him in mind. Inspector Pardy : That was the o&se. I had only beard of your interference ia the case of j Mayna. Th& men in mj- district came from all . partis of the colony, aDd *he influence does nob j necessarily couae from Dup^din, but from the j places whore they have resided and where their j relatives and xcionds are. My evidence did no& bear specially on you or on any local member. The CUaii'oaan said it was quite proper thab ffl.t Millaf should take tho opportunity of putting himself righ v . before the commission. ■ Inspector Pardy : Are you aware that I hare j never made a charge on t'te defaulters' list | about a constable without first acquainting him I that I should do bo ? — No* S was not aware of that, but I knew that it had bsan done ia Dunediu. To Colonel Hume : Witness's raason for writing and speaking to Colonel Hume about; Constable Mayne wan that he thought Mayne had not had justice done to Mm. To Mr Tuylor: He wrote to Colonel Hum* aboui; tho matter, and later on to the Minister for Defence. He had verbal information from the commissioner that Inspector Pardy's roporb was to the effect that Mayne was not fib for . plain-clothes duty. He then took the matter to ! the Minister for Defence, and left it there.' Ifc j was quite possible that the Minister might be i in a better position to judge of a mac's abilities } than the inspector oc tho commissioner. The . inspector might have prejudges against a man, • and the commissioner would be guided by tha ! inspector'^ reports, but if the matter was sab- ! mitted to a Minister who was quite inde- | pendent he would be better abla to judge. He j remembered the Reform Association being 1 formed in Dunediu some years ago. He had j been told by the promoter* of that association I that great discontent existed amongst the polieo } with regard to promotion. He had said men ' were promoted who, in his opinion, should nob have been promoted. He had certainly said thab the thing should be rectified, but he ha<i never said that the first thiDg he would do on taking his seat in the House would be to ask for a commission into the working of the police forca. He had said he would try to get th« wrongs of the police rectified. In reply to Commissioner Tanbridge, witness said he considered 7s 6d a day should be a minimum wage for any man joiuing the force. They should also have uniforms free. He thought that the very least that; a man could be expected to live on was £2 5s a week. Married I men should also be given an allowance for renfc. I The grades should advance at the rate of Is «. ! grade, second class constables being paid 8s 6tl and first class constables 9s 6d a day. As to whether the House would be prepared to give financial aid to a pension scheme for the police, he thought thab they would be prepared to doanything which would pub the force of the colony on a sound footing — a footing which would give satisfaction to the men and enabls them to give the best service. To Mr Poynton : Witness did not think that the head of the Police department should not ba fcee from Ministerial control. He would like to see a civil service board created whioh would have control over the whole of the civil servants ; but in absence of such a hoard he would . make the head of the Police department responsible for his department to the Ministerial head. i To Commissioner Tunbridge : The head of the Police department should have absolute con.* , trol over all details of his deDartment, b.u%
»ppointmentß to the force should bo made by & civil service board, snbject to regulations which should be laid down by statute. James M'Gill, builder, who resided in Moray place, deposed tbat he had occasion to complain to the policG with regard to houses in Asher'a right-of-way, off Filleul street. He had complained of the houses in the right-of-way being frsquentr-d by low characters and women of the town. There waa also another place further down Filled street which was nearly as bad as Asher's right-of-way. The las* complaint was in the form of a petition, signed by a number of neighbours, which was sent to the Minister for Juhtice. Witness had at differcut timeß complained about ths right-of-way to the landlord of tho houses, Mr Asher, and to the mortgagee, Bisbop NevilJ. He got very little satisfaction by complaining. For a little while there would be au improvement in the condition of matters, but then things got bad again. This state of affairs had existed for about 15 years. When witness complained to Mr Asher be refuted to do anything, and said he got better rents from that place than others ; and tbat the money of the people who lived there was as good as other people's. O.htr people supplied the residents of his houses with drapery and food, and he did not see why he should nob supply them with houses. Mr Taylor : Wfaafc did Bishop Nevill s*y trben you complained to him ? Witness : He said that he was very sorry, but that he bad invested his money in the place and he was afraid if he took any prompt action he wruld lose it. In reply to further question?, Witness said it was about 12 years ago since he complained to Mr Asher. He complained to Bishop Nevill about two years ago, and also 8-iina yearß previously. To the Chairman : Witness heard by a side wind that Bishop Nevill had an interest in the property in A«hsr's right-of-way. He then •earched the register and found out that he toad a mortgage of £1000 on it, for which he was getting 10 per cent. To Mr Taylor: Witness complained to the pclice about the right-of-way about six months »go. He could" not say whether the same people were there now, bub be thought not. The nnisanca he complained of he thought still exwted. He had seen two young girls coming out of the right-of-way. They were from 14- to 16 years of age. He did not know which house the girls lived in. He saw them hanging about; day and night up till as late as half-past 10 at Bight. He saw one of them on the previous evening at hsl f -past 10 in company with young men. He had '*een the girls in company with a number of dfferent men in proximity to a house in the iight-of-way.' There were very often disturbances in the houses in the. right oN w«y. <To the Chairman : Wi'ness could not fix upon aDy ' house in particular. He could not say whether the girb he r*f erred to h»d Been before fche court. He thought there were four rooms in 1 the bouses in the lane. They had always, been a low class of buildings. j Mr Taylor : Do you think the police have I been sufficiently vigilant in looking alter that neighbourhood ? Witness : They always promised to look after H>, bnfc thty never did much. They would get ft conviction totue times. ! To the Chairman : The police sometimes got J » conviction, for \agrancy, and they tried to get a wnv'c l ion for prostitution, but that failed. To Mr Taylor : The value of property in the ] neighbourhood had very much depreciated in ] consequence of the houses in the right-of-way. I Witness Had eeen the girls he had referred to ] on the ttreefc in company with a woman of the i town named Scotch Lizzie — a woman of between ] 50 and 60 years cf age. He was sure property ' in the neighbourhood wa-j injured by the I ex'stence of the houses in the right of-way. The ' comfort of the public was also interfered with. ] He thought that he had a right under sectiou ] I*o of the Crircinbl Code Act of 1893 to ctmplain that the comfort of the public was in- \ terfered with. . He had not, however, made any i complaint under that statute. j To the Chsirmar : Witness had not nudo a charge agair.st anybody in court, bub he had tried to move the authorities and those interested in the property. Tne place had been known as a place of ill-fame for 15 or 16 years. About two months ago witness saw a woman address a young man in "the Octagon and then take him down the l&ne. He watched them go into the lane. About the same time j there was a disturbance ia the lane. A man i came running down p*sii his workshop, and the woman he referred to ag Sco'ch Lizzie ran after him. The two ran down Moray place mnd a crowd followed them. About September last there was also a disturbance in the Brtght-of-w&y in the afternoon, and a crowd gathered in xhe street at the end of the rigbt-»f-vray. A low woman was making a row in *he lane, and behaved in an obscene manner. A Jioliceman came on the scene afterwards. To Inspector Pardy : Witness complained to the inspector of police only on one occasion. He wa« not aware -that the inspector had acted promptly in rtgti-d to that complaint. He did not hear any mora about ifc. He was aware j that the police had ag»in snd again prosecuted : people for misconduct in the right-of-way. H'J ■ "was also aware thab the police could not take fiction without they had evidence. He cud noi iknow of any instanca whsre the polios had 'been able to geb evidence and had failed to prosecute. When witness had complained to tha police about ths paopla in the right-of-way he j knew that they hftd been shifted. The in- ] Bpeetor of police was a neighbour of witness's, and ib was quit* convenient for him to com- \ plaia to the inspector. He had, however, only ■ complained once. He could not tell which ! house the people he had seen going; into the fight-cf-oFay with women had entered — the ! dcors of the houses were very closa together, i His complaint was nob half as much against the police as against the owners — the ground landlord and the mortgagee. J. B. Thomson deposed that his properly sd joined Asher's lane, and he had lived on the property over 20 years. He was there before the nuisance commenced. He had joined in the cotnplainb regarding tlia nuisance. Ha gare the police credit ; they had cleared the houses several times, but people just as bad were allowed to go in again, and when Inepeolor Hickson occupied an adjacent house these place-i in the right-of-way could not ba let ; teaant3 could not be gob for them. He aid not blame the police, but the landlords. The people there were of the lowest class ; Dob working people, but people who would not work. Girls living as prostitutes were living in that lane. There was no doubt about that, but be could not say in which house they lived. To Inspector Pardy : Prompt attention had always been paid to complaints, and ou two occasions the lane had been cleared righb out. To Commissioner Tollbridge: He balieved the police had done all they could without tho Assistance ot the proprietor. Inspector Pardy was again called and examined by Mr Taylor, and said there were no brothela within the legal meaning of the term in Dunedin to his knowledge. Children ove;? 15 years could not be interfered with unless they were vagrants — that was, bud no lawful means of support. If girls were found Bolicic-
ing prostitution in a public place they would be ' prosecuted. Before a female searcher was appointed at the police station women were 1 searched by a woman employed for the purpose. A constable's wife did not do the duty. The female searcher took entire charge of tha female prisoners, and eearched them, locked them up, and kept the keys. She had also to look after " children's homes " under the Infant Life Protection Act. He did not know 1 tbat the girls who had been referred to as living in Asher's right-of-way had been at any time j before the court. It would be the duty of the j police to report the fact if they knew that a ! • house was visited nightly by four or five proati- ! tatts, and it would he his ducy to order a prosecution if proof was obtainable. Witness produced a return of all crimes in the Clutha district from January 1, 1890, to December 31, I 1893 ; also a return showing all crimes in the , Clutha from January 1, 189*, to December 31, { 1897. During the first-mentioned period there were 34-7 arrests for all crimes ; and during the second period 233 arresbs. During the first period licenses were in forces the whole time, and during six months of the second period. Terence O'Brien, chief detective, stationed at Dunedin, stated that the police instituted proceedings for gaming about two weeks after he came here. A prosecution took place in the Pohcs Court a week later. It was the duty oi the police to take coguismce of houses of illfame. He had no doubt that there were bstting shops in Danedin now. He knew of one place where bettiog was conducted. There was nothing unlawful in making a bsr, provided it was made under certain conditions. In the case m wh'ch the police were ' successful in raiding a gaming house it was found that persons frequented the place for the purpose of betting. Tne persona who kept the place now had premises in the Arcade. He had not satisfied himself since that gambling was carried ou there. He suspecbed the place because it was kept by the same persons ; bat he had not seen persons frequenting it. He j had sometimes been to the place three times in j a day. He knew a man named Tommy ,' Barnett — a betiiog man. He had heard that j Ban Curtis, a tobacconist, carried on betting, j 1 He, however, had not satisfied himself Ihat he ' I carried on betting in an ille^^l manner. He knew of a bookmaker named Moss,' who kept an office. He did i.o*; know of any other bookmakers who had offices. He did not know of any houses existing in Danedin tbat came within the definition o f brothels. He thought there were such places if one could see them at all times. There was a house at the corner of Cargili and Scotland streets that he suspected. Is was a house occupied by a woman i and her daughter, both of whom were of I ' indifferent character. So far as he knew there j was only one girl who visited tha place from lime to tim?. He thought the house wa3 vacated a day or two ago. He would be sur- j prised to hear that the house was ' frequented on. the previous night by a number of women. Ha knew Percy Terrace, in j K'ng street. There was a house there that he had his donb'.s abDufc. Two girls frequenttd that placs, so far as ho knew. He had seen cabs pull up there on one or two occasions. A man got out of the cab on one occasion, and the second time only the cabman got out of the cab Witness did not think there was a similar place in Asher'a lane. There was, however, one in King street, opposite St. Andrew street. He Euspected that placs because ha saw it frequented by a couole of ga'ly-dressed women. There ware lots of places about the city in which females of an indiff ereut class lived. He had obtained convictions against psraons who , had kept houses frequented by w^inen of | Jllfame. He had cot had a conviction sgainsfc \ any of the houses he had mentioned. Since he j had been in Danedin he hftd obtained two such ( convictions. Tnere were a few spielers who j frequented Dunedin from time to time. He ■ knew of three. He had not seen any men booking wagers at the corner of Rattray street. He would not be surprise! if Mr Taylor saw six j wagers entered up on the previous day a& i that corner. If a man fixed the odd<? in laying i a Wigrr it was not an offence, but if fas | laid totaliaato? odds it w*3 au offence. He did j not know of betcing being carried on with minors here. Ha certainly did not; think j gambling was on the increase in Dunedin. During the time he had been here he hal nob noticed any breaches oi tho Licensing Acb. To Colonel Hume : Witness wa3 16 years in Oanaaru. Daring the time he was there he did not consider taat there were too many constables there. To Inspector Pardy : Witness ntd never l^sb an oppnrtunicy of prosecuting spielers when he i had {sufficient evidaace. A eonsidcr&bla number i had been prosecuted. With legard to the house ia Scotland street, the inspector's instructions j ! were thai if the inmates did not clear out they I would be prosecuted. j I Joseph Albeit M'Ckaib, second-class detecj fcivt', stationed at Djnedin, said if the inspector ' of -police said he f-mnd out the existence of gaming in ths house with regard to which a convienion was obtained he would bs mis- ! taken. Defective O'Coni.or mentioned tho I \ matter to the inspector. The men who had j ' baen prcsecaled for keeping a gaming hou<w» [ I wer« now in the Arcade. Since thoy weTe ' | prosecuted they did not bet over the counter, j They had learn!; a little law, and kuew that j theie mu">t be a physical resorting to the p'acs J in order that a conviction might be obtained , I against them. Now they had go i a telephone, j j Betting men frequented Princes street. He , : had seen men making entries ia their books, but | '• did not see their entries. He knew come j i spielers in Daaedin, and could name them. | i They were nob vagrants, as they had pro; erfcy — 1 lawful means of support. Some of them had | been arrested and convicted of vagrancy, but oue i could not arrest them again dteechly they came | out of gaol. Taey were regarded as dangerous to ths community, and were keph under strict i surveillance. Bating in th/ 3 street* could be j carried on with itnpuuity. The law for the &upj pression of gambliug required amendment to make it effective. Gambling in Danedin was, j he thought, aboub stationary, and ho thought j there were fewer spieler?. There was probably more betting h?re now than five years ago. Ifc would, he thought, be objectionable to send a boy under 16 to bet with a bookmaker for the purpose oi gebsing a conviction. Ib was better i that lads should be kept a^ay from bookmakers. I Ib did nob seem to him equally objsction?.bl3 to ! employ a man to entrap tha ke;p';r of a gaming house. Prostitution was, he thought, on tho decreasa in Dunediu, and that there were not a3 many young girb on the streets s.s formerly. Witness was examined as to houses occupied by prostitutes. If he saw a serious breach of the licensing law ha should reporu it lo the inspector. He should consider ib serious if disorderly scenes occurred, drunken people were kept about tha place, or bad characters harboured. Ha hid not looked for trifling breaches of the Licensing Act, and il had not been the duty of the detectives bo to do. To Commissioner Tunbridge : Witness said he i had conversations with the inspector every i morning, and told him many thiags without; ' making formal reports. He never let tlip an [ opportunity of proc?eding against spielers. > Although he had nob ceen the books, he had
1 obtained information thai; " tote " betting books were bo kept that it would bo impossible to obtain evidence from th9m. John Cooney, examined by Mr Taylor, deposed that he was a plain clothes constable. He had been threa yearß oa duty as a plain clothes constable. Witness gave similar evidence to the last witness respecting gambling. He had tried to get information against betting men, but it was very difficult to do go. He never knew of a policeman in Duuedin betting in tote | shops, or to his own knowledge lay j a wager with bookmakers. He had laid ! a straight-out wager, not totalizator odds, ! with a bookmaker. Batting, he thought, was on the decrease. Ha knew of no betting on the part of minors. It he saw a glaring case of a breach of the licensing law, he snould report it. He considered it his duty to report houses of ill-fame to the inspector. Oa this question he also gave evidence similar to that given by Detective M 'Grata. In reply to Inspector Pardy, witness eaid there was not a single young girl on the streets in Danedia now. The number of prostitutes had decreased during the last five years. No house of ill-fame had been passed over by the police that is was possible to get a conviction against. Tha police ware continually prosecuting women of ill-fame. They were brought up before the magistrates so often, that even the magistrate did not kaotr what to do with them. To Commissioner Tunbridge : Oa one onca&ijn witness had a bet with a betting man about four years ago. The amount was s*. He lost the wager and had not bet since. Witness was at the house near Scotland street on tho previous eveuing at half-pas'; 4. There w&b nobody in it then, and ib was quite empty. Mr Taylor said the house hfe had baen referring to was right on the come? of tho stroll. Thete was no doubt tb.it thai; bouse was in the occupation of prostitutes on the previous night. Tudor Boddam, plain clothes constable, also gave evidence, in the course of which he stated that the police were doing all they could to assist women of the town to lead a better life. At 4-. 20 p.m. the commiasion adjournsd until Monday, but it is not iatended to take si>y further evidence until Friday.
Permanent link to this item
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/OW18980324.2.55
Bibliographic details
Otago Witness, Issue 2299, 24 March 1898, Page 24
Word Count
15,128POLICE COMMISSION. Otago Witness, Issue 2299, 24 March 1898, Page 24
Using This Item
No known copyright (New Zealand)
To the best of the National Library of New Zealand’s knowledge, under New Zealand law, there is no copyright in this item in New Zealand.
You can copy this item, share it, and post it on a blog or website. It can be modified, remixed and built upon. It can be used commercially. If reproducing this item, it is helpful to include the source.
For further information please refer to the Copyright guide.
Log in