TUESDAY, DECEMBER 21.

Otago Witness, Issue 2287, 30 December 1897, Page 22

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 21.

In the Legislative Council to-day seven locsl billffj the Kapiti Island Reserve Bill, and the Railway Classification Bill were passed. V RAILWAY CLASSIFICATION. The Hon. W. C. WALKER moved the Fecond reading of tbe GoveniiMenfc Jt.iil*-»y Department Classification Act Amendment Bill. The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS said that if the Government did not choose to introduce bills like this in season the Council should ignore them altogether. He therefore moved to adjourn the debate for three weeks. The Hon. Mr ORMOND said no justice could ' be'doce to the measure in the time left to the Council, but as the -bill was desired by 6be x railway servants he would not o{p;S9 it; bub' be regretted that the Council might have to , pass the,measure without proper revision. The mbtion to commit the bill was agreed to on tbe voices, and 1 the bill was reported without amendment. On the motion for the third reading. The Hon. Mr JENKrNSON congratulated file Government on taking the initiative in fixing the rate of wages paid to apprentices. The Hon. Mr OLIVER regretted that more time sbculd nob have been given for consideration 1 of this measure, which was one of tha most important brought before Parliament that session. The innovation of Parliament fixing the rates of wages was establishing a new precedent, which would' almost ars iutely prevent these wages beiDg.altered in the future. The Hon. W. C. WALKER said the bill established no new.privileges. It was merely the result of one j ear'a working of last year's Clasiincation Act. The third reading was agreed 1 to and the bill pissed. BILLS PASSED. The Westport-Ngaka^ran Railway Extension Act Amendment Bill, Wellington City Empowering Bill, Wellington Boys' Institute Bill, ' Bluff Harbour Board Empowering Bill, KohuItohu Foreshore Reset vation Bill, Borough ef lytbtlton Corporation Enabling Bill; Wellington Education Board' Transfer and Reset ye Bill, and Kapiti Island Public Reserve Bill passed their final stages. VICTORIA COLLEGB. The Hon. Mr MONTGOMERY reported the result of the conference between the twp Houses on the Victoria College Bill, and the Council ,' adopted the report, the Hon. Mr BOWEN and • the Hon. W. C. WALKER coT^ratulatiug the Council on having, by a compromise, saved such an important bill. fn tbe House of Representatives to-day , the Premier practically .abandoned for-this session- the Technical Education Bill and the Eight < Hours Bill. The Supplementary Estimates provoked a long and. at times acrimonious debate. In the evening, speaking; on the Appropriation Bill, Mr George Hutchison gave fcbe usual Opposition review of the wo. k of the Beesion. Tha debate, was proceeding when, the telegraph office closed.. BILLS DEALT WITH: After the ttl^graph office cloeed'eonsideration of tho'Leases and. Sale of Settled Estates Act Amendment Bill was resumed in Committee, acd' after discussion passed unamended, and subsequently passed its final stages.

Tho- Kapiti. Island Public Reserve Bill and Government Railway Classification Act Amendment* Bill passed their final stages.

A BIXI, KILLED.

The Reserve?, Endowments, and Crown and Native Lands Exchange, Sale, D.'spOsal, and Enabling Bill was committtd.

Ctauee 1. — The Hon. Mr Rolleston took strong objection to tbe bill, and said each of the clauses was practically a private bill. It was » wroDg thing to ask tbe House to pass a b'll which it did cob understand, aud ib was quite a new doctrine for Ministers of the Crown to take charge of a bill which they could not explain to the House. He submitted that the Bill should be referred to a committee and it should receive the most careful consideration. He moved that progress be reported.— After two hours' discussion progress was reported,, the Right Hon. Mr Seddon abating it was quite ivident that at that stage of the session ths bill con'd not get thiongh. Progress was. also reported, on the Right Hon. BJ> Seddon's motion, on the Eight Hours Bi'l andvthe Technical Education Bill.

SUPPEEMEKTARX ESTIMATES,

▲ Mr s^age was received from the Governor forwarding; the Supplementary Estimates for 1897-98.

Legislative, general expenses, £140. — Mr G. Htjtchison said it was a rcandal that the House should separate without makirg provision for the costs against tie Public Trustee in the Horowhenua case. — The Right Hon; Mr Seddon raised a point of order on tbe ground that a general discussion cannot take place on the first item of the Supplementary Estimates, but only on the Main Estimates. — Mr Guinness ruled 1 that it had been always the custom to have a discussion on tbe first item on tbe General only and cot on the Supplementary Estimates. — Mr Pibani moved tbab progress bereported, in order to allow tbe Pcemier to place a sum on tbe Estimates for the payment of the costs of tbe Public Trustee. He said Ministers were doing their utmost to destroy public confidence in the Eublic Trust department, as no man would entrust his property in an office which was liable to be called ou at any time to pay the costs in malicious actions brought by Ministers. If the Premier would not allow them to discuss this question in an ordinary way they must do ib in an extraordinary one. — The Right Hon. Mr Seddon rose to order, on the ground that Mr Piram's contention could not be upheld. — Mr Pirani said he would- contest every item, on these Estimates unless the Premier allowed them to go into this matten and make provision for paying those costs.— The Right Hon. Mr Seddon said be could discuss it on the Appropriation BilK —Mr Pirani asked whether, if the Supreme Court ordered the Public Trustee to pay this money, would the Premier authorise him to do so out of the trust funds. — The- Right Hon. Mv Seddon said the court had already ordered him to pay costs, bub if the lourfc said the Public Trustee could pay the osts out of the trust funds no doubt he would ■oo so. If ib did nob do so the Public Trustee would nob pay them. — Mr G. Hutchison : And you won't, either. — The Right Hon. Mr Seddon : I do nob say that ; but if the Supreme Court rules that the costs can ba paid out of the trust funds no doubt

they wiil be paid. However, I shall do nothing to prejudice the question —Mr G. Hutchison' said that in eitber cas9 the money must come out of the consolidated fuud. Could not the Premier see that such a course must be adopted ? — Mr Pirani said if the Government did what was fair iv the Horowhenua case they wculd pay the whole of the costs in the case, not the courb co-t3 only. It w«s a most improper proceeding that the public trust funds should ba liable to this sort of thing. — The Right Hon. Mr Seddon said if the matter was left in the hands of the court it* decision would be given in due course. If he (Mr Seddon) had interfered in any way he would have, been charged with seeking to influence the court in its decision. He appealed to the Committee to get on with the Estimates.— Mr Pirani said he should stay there for a week till the country wai put in possession of the whole facts of this case.

SOPPUGMFNTARY ESTIMATES.

The motion for reporting progress was losb on the voice?, and the item Colouial Secretary (printing aud stationery), £353, was carried. MiscJ-llaneuu? services, £2650, was carried. A lengthy discussion arose on the item £500, payment to Reuters Telegram Company for special telegrams. — The Right Hon. Mr Seddon explained that tbe vote was required forjieleg ranis in connection with matter** relating to the colony sent by Renter, and it was found thai a saving was effected' by pu'ting a cum ou the Bstimates.-'Mr Pibani moved that the vote of £500 bonus for tbe Felt industry be struck out. hcs*i by 25 to 21, aad the total vote carried.

Colonial Treasurer, £195 — Mr Pirani a--ked the Premier to give the Houfe an assurance that the public trust fund would not be called on to pay the costs of the Horowhenua case. — The Right Hon. Mr Seddon said he would nst sliow anything to happen to injure the cdony. — ■ Mr Pirani movf d that progress be reportsd, and said before the House prorogued the Colonial Treasurer should give an assurance that the trust funds of the colony should not be called on to pay these costs if tha case now pending should go againsb tha Public Trustee. — The Right Hon. Mr Seddon would give the House an assurance that be would pay the costs out of the unauthorised expeuditure. — The item was carried.

Justice department,, £1048. — Mr Pirani asked how it was that all the resident magistrates on the Estimates had received increases except Judge Kettle, who wasnofc only a magistrate but a district judge. — The Hon. T. Thompson said those increases were made in compliance with a promise made while tbe General Estimates were under discussion, and no increaie was made in salaries over the maximum of £500. There was no reason for singling out Judge Kettle in this manner. — Ml- Pirani characterised the Minister's reply as pure r bunkum, and said the reason- why Judge Kettle had Dob received a similar increase to those I given to the magistrates of New Plymouth, Kaiapoi, Palmerston North, and Invercargili was because he (Judge Kettle) had asked for justice. — Mr Buchanan spoke in strong term 3 against the trea-'ment offered to Judge Kettle. — Tho Right Hon. Mr Seddon; denied that any injustice was offered to Judge Kettle. He had been offered the position of m<rgis.trate of Wellington at an increase of £50 a year, and had refused.to le&Te-.Wanganui. IE he (Me Seddon) had been Minister for Justice he insist that Judge Kettle should go where he was .ordered- to -go;-. and' when he (Mr Seddon) offered to send Judge. Kettle to Giaborrie as judge of the Native Land Court;,, at an increase of £200 a year, he refused it.— (Mr Pirani : ?' He never received the offar.") He persisted that he had received it, .and said; it was practically decided by the Cabinet that Judge Kettle should receive the position held at Gigborne by Judge Barton, but' it was found that he would ref&se it. If they now increased Judge Kettle's salary by £50 ib would put him on an equality with Judge Robimou, who was 15 or 20 years* his .superior. As to the attack on Judge Kettle, he thought the only way to deal with that matter was to hold an inquiry,. It wasa question now with Judge K'-btle and his friends in the -House whether Judge Kettle or Mr Thompson were to bo Minister for Justice. Thoee merobgrs were doing Judge Kettle no good by the action they were taking. They were also prejudicing him. in the eyes of the country. There were too many magistrates altogether on. the West Coist. — Mr Pirani said the Premier knew nothing at all about the matter. He pointed out that Judge Kettle was at Wanganui only one dny a week, and he had to hold District- Courts at New Pijmouth, Hawera, Palmeraton North, and Masterton. — The Right Hod. Mr Seddon paid Mr Pirani did more harm than good in his defence of Government servants, and he had that afternoon done Judge Kettle more harm than he could undo* if he lived to the age of Methuselah. The Government bad offered to hold an icquiry as asked for by Judge Kettle, and they were now attacked by Mr .Pirani fordoing it. — Mr Pibani said Judg« Kettle had asked for no inquiry. All be. asked for was that thecorrescondence should be laid on the tabip. — The Right Hoo. Mr Seddon asked whether. Mr Piraui made that statement on the authority of Judge Kettle — (Me Pirani : "Address the chair.")— He (Mr SeddoD) would confute Mr Pirani witb Judge Kettle's own application, which was that either the correspondence sbouU be laid on the- table, .or, secondly, that an inquiry should ba held into the charges made against him by Barns. — The vote was agreed to.

Native Land Court, £844-. — Mr Pi rani asked whether it was true that the Pi-emier intended to abolish the Native Lmd Courb — The R ; ghb Hod. Mr Seddon : Yes ; as soon as I can do so.— Mr Pirani : I thought so, after the Horowhenna ease. — The vote was carried.

Customs and Marine, £2539. — Carried. Marine and Harboura, £1800.— Mr John Hutcheson moved to strike out £50 for shipping, master and examiner of masters and mates, Welli-gton. He said it was a complete satire to see the Under-secietsry for Dafenca actißg as shipping master, and pointed out that thi3 was a position that should ba filled by a competent officer. It was » crying necessity ia order to see that ships left Wellington Harbour properly manned, and he should use all tbe power of the press till next session, to defeat 6ueh. a proposal. The seafaring men of the colony were anxiously waiting, to see whether the Government would act properly iv this matter.— The Right Hon. Mr Seddon said what the seamen- asked for was to" appoint four officers at £1200 a year, and the Government refused to accept their dictation or to appoint unnecessary officer*. Tha officer referred to was a. lieutenant in the Royal Navy, and he was just the. man to do justice to seamen. He thought he was appointing a competent man to do this work, whilst at the same time his salary was increased. — After considerable discussion fcbe vote of £50 wag retnined by 21 to 20 — Mr Pibani moved that the vote of £1800 be reduced by £1 as an indication of the dissatisfaction of the House with tha system of appointing shipping masters, — Lost by 29 fco 13. Technical education, £100. — Mr Pi rani movpd that this vote be struck out. He aakf d the Premier what he intended to do with the £13,000 already voted for technical education. —The Right Hon. Mr Seddon "aid he intended

to carry out the will of Parliament. He could not say more than that. — Lost by 28 to 9.

Stamps - and D.eds department, £3520. — Carried.

Department of Labour, £800.— Mr Monk called attention to the persistent manner in which the .expenses of this department -were being increased. He took special exception to the £650 additional expenses in connection with " The Conciliation and Arbitration Act, 1894-."-— The Kighb Hon. Mr Seddojt said his attention had baeu called to this matter, and be thought it better to go back to the original scale of fees — namely, 10i 6d a-day — Carried. Mines department, £1958. — Carried. Department of Agriculture, £2059. — Carried. Working railways, £12,127. — Mr Morrison moved to reduce the vote by £1, as an ind;cation thnt the salary of the general manager of railways be increased 'by £150 a year. — A lengthy discussion followed, several members contending that the salary of tha general manager should be £1000 a year. — Losb on the voices. — Mr Meredith moved to strike out £50 increase to the general manager of railways. He said the present was not the time to increase salaries. — Lost on the voices.

New parliamentary library, £7000. — Carried.

Permanent militia and volunteers, £950. — Mr Carngros3 protested against voluuteers being deprived of free pa9sejj and said it was absolutely necessary that these passes should be restored to them. He moved thai; the vote be reduced by £1, as an-iudication that railway pa*sss should be restored to volunteers — Mr Wilson itrongly supported the amendment, and hoped tha Committee would agf«e to passes being restored. — Mr LBwrs said ib appeared to him to be a very short-sighted policy the way these passes were issued. Under present conditions the besb shots woreeEcoursged, but rising men received no encouragement ab all. — The Hon. T. Thompson said all his sympathies were with the volun- ! teers, aud he should be only too pleased to supply free passes if tbe money were at bis disposal, but he could not make any alteration till funds were at his command. The matter would, however, bo discussed when tha rep*>rl; of tho new commandant was oomiderad. — Mr Oabnchoss paid there was no necessity to throw any obstacles in the way. Ib was purely a matter • of bookkeeping — there was'no money in it, — and if these pssses were nob granted ib wculd kill the volunteer moveme it. — After further discussion the amendment was carried aud the total vote as reduced by £1 passed.

Police Depaitment (miscellaneous), £1057 — Mr Meredith: asked for s>m! information respecting the police commission which the Government proposed to appoint. — Mr Lewis wished for information about the "order of reference." He thought the inquiry should bo held as from the date of the present Government taking offi-ie. — Mr Tannee s nd ill-natured people were saying ill-natured things about this commission, and as it was about three months since the commission was proposed he thought it was time they had some information from the Premier about it. — The Right Hon. Mr SfiDDON ?aid he proposed to make a stati-meub to the House on the subject. — The Hon." Mr RolltsstoN thougbt aby comtnissioa-they could appoint would' be of very little use after such evidence as was given by tha commissioner in the Supreme Court at Blenheim, from which it appeared that the commissioner had to- consult Miuiaters ia all matters of transfers, aud he could give no deciiion in such matters without consulting Ministers. — The vote-pasred. Lauds and syrvey, £1629.— The R'gUt Hod. R. J. Seddon, in reply, to' Mr Flatmau, said the commissioner inquiring into the claims of the old soldiers expected to complete his labours by the end of tbe year, and after his report was received be thought they would hear no more of the old soldiets' claims. — Carried.

Compensation to M'Lean Bros, for the Helensville North railway, £35C0.— The Right Hoa. R. J, Seddon explained that the committee had recommended £5000, and there was no doubt tha> contractors were entitled to compensation. — Carried.

THE APPROPRIATION BILL,

The Appropriation Bill was introduced, read , a second time, and committed. Ou the motion for the third readings of the bill,

Mr G. HUTCHISON said the session which had nearly closed would be a memorable session in the colony, inasmuch as it would mark a change in the feeling of the people aud mark the dawn of a brighter sate of things. The Opposition weie justified in condoling with the Premier in consequence of the entire failure of his policy. A feeliug of i thankfulness would be felt) that very little legislation bad been passed and of that little there had not been much in the shape of harmful measures. The Opposition hid prevented I the Premier from passing many injurious measures and from carrying oa buriaess at I hours when members were physically u< fitted -to; carry it on, and he trusted' that uexb session • they would continue to hold their sittings at more reasonable hours. The Premier had rej cently referred to a speech made by the leader j of the Opposition, in which he stated that Captain Russell would, if- ha had tbe opportunity, repeal tbe Land for Settlements Act and several other measures passed by the present Government, but be refuged to credit that statement, and said that no matter what else was said of tbe leader of tbe Opposition the utterances of that hon. gentleman, who was not vow prtsenf, were at any rate eulibled to credence. It was not that bill that Captain Russell objected to, but tbe way it was administered. He referred at soma length to the land question, and referring to Mr Seddbn's speech ab Waverley, he stid its tendency was such as to leave no man's property safe in the colony. As to small farms' settlement, the credit of those might surely be left; to Mi- Rolleston, who was the author of all thst was good in that system. No one could deny to the Opposition a desire to promote genuine settlem nt and to open up the country by roads and bridges, with some idea of paying back the borrowed money. The policy of tbe Government, however, I was one of continual borrowing, but with no idea" whatever of redeeming the engagements they entered into. He referred to the bills brought in by the Government this session, and said an old ago pensioner could have a property of £2200, bub he was not able to qualify for- a shilling a day if he coald earn two shillings a day. They also had a " discreet woman," but both the old pensioner and the discreet woman were lost at tbe other end of the lobby, and the colony would not regret the rejection of eitber measure. The Techurcal Eiucation Bill was lost by too much ingenuity, whilst che Banking Bill brought down was no credit to the Premier, and was accompanied with recommendations so objectionable and offensive that it could not be intended to pas 9. He also condemned the Mining Bill in strong terms. The crowning degradation ofthesession was, however, the bill to cancel the judgment of the Suprem3 Court — he referred to tbe Horowhenua Bill. The Premier had repeatedly stated that tha judgment of the Supreme Court waß to follow the judgment; of the Native Lands Court, bub ib was open to the Public Trustee to prove the existence of a trust when the case came 'on. However, the Public Tcustee stated there was no trust, and that Sir Walter Ballet's title held

good. In* the face of that declaration the Government refused to pay the costs of the case, and allowed a cltim to be made against the Public Trustee for these costs. The whole thing was deplorable, and nob calculated to advance tha credit of the oolony. With respect; to the labour legislation, he said that although the Government professed great things on. this head their aotiou did nob- benefit the Labour party. He referred to the Bight Hours Bill, and paid the Premier wished to pass merely a declamatory bill in order that he might claim the credit of passing, tbab bill ; but' even that pleasure was denied him-, and he had to abandon the bill. As to the other labour bill?, tbe Legislative Council, although recently recruited by tbe Premier himself, rejected those billa. He held that the Opposition were entitled to credit for this session. The Government had done nothing, and did it badly.

Mr Pi RANI said the cleavage of the independent section of the Liberal party from the Government party was based on tbe question | whether or not it was advisable for members of the Government to hold scats on syndicates, | and tbe fact of the Government making' such. * question a parly one discounted very greatly the result of the division taken on it., He alluded to the manner in which the present Ministers had attacked) our courts of justice, not only : this session, bub in previous sessions, mud deplored< their attempts to sap the- independence i of thoße courts. Not only that;, but the Premier j now threatened the Native Lsnd Courts, and ! declared they should ba abolished. Ib was | strange, however, that they heard nothing about the abolition of those .courts till the , Horowhenua case. He referred at some length to that subject, and stated that many of the Natives admitted they committed perjury before the commission. There was not a tittle of genuine evidence to justify the report of the Horowhenua Commission.

Mr HOGG thought the appearance of tha House at that moment showed they had bad enough of the Horowhenua Block, as the Opposition wtre asleep and the Government supporters wero not much better, whilst they. had only one live Minister in the chamber. Ifc | was a most complicated question, but it seemed to him the greatest sufferers in* the whole trans- \ action were likely to be the Nativss themselves. After giving, a history of the. case at some length, he said Judge Kettle held a high posi- | tioa in the dfstrieb in which be (Mr Hogg) resided^ and he hud a great respect; for that ! gentleman. Tbe wbola subject of the attack on Judge Kettle, however, was brought about by Mr Buchanan, and the whole beginning and end of the Minister for LandV offence was his defending an officer; of his department whom Ihe considered unjustly attached. Referring to Mr Hutchison's remarks ttboub the labour bills, he said there were great difficulties in carrying those bills into operation, and that was the reason-why so many labour bills failed in the old country aud other places^ He denied that tboao bills drove unskilled labour into the streets, and said that one result of them was that there was plenty of labour for all h»nds and very few unemployed now to be seen; He defended the Government policy and' the bills they had introduced, and challenged Mr. Hutchison to repeat b afore his constituents what he had! just told the House, regarding; the Old. Age j Pensions Bill. There was a feeling of disgust ,all over the country at the way that- the bill bad- been treated, and although' the Legislative' ; Council had trampled' on some of the labour legislation tbis-sessioii; the country would insist on that legislation being carried out.

THE TECHNICAL EDUCATION BILL.

i A conference was held batvreen the Premier and some of his supporters with those members of his party and tho L'ft Wing who objected to the introduction in the Technical Education Bill of-denominationaltsm. The Premier is said to have tubmitted the following as a compromise: — " Further provision to clauss 2 : Provided further that in the case of every off or for a license under Ibis section the Minister, upon receipt of the application, shall forward the satno to the i education board of tne education district in ' which it is proposed to establish the class, and thereupon, the following provisions will apply — (1) If withiu a period of two monfcbs after receiving the offer the board does nob,, by resolution, communicate to the Minister an objection to the i license, the Minister may grant tins same. (Z) If I tho board, by resolution, declines ooncurrence« i in the grant of tha license, it shall, within the aforesaid period of two months, intimate to ' the Minister its dissent ; and, in such case, the Minister shall not' grant a license, but shall lay the application, the board's objection, and all correspondence relating thereto, before Parliament within 10 days after receiving such [ intimation if Parliament be sitting, or, if not, i then within 10 days after the commencement of the next enduing session thereoF. New eliuse |.to follow clause' 7 : (7a) Subject to tbe provisions for revocation hereinbefore contained, every gush license shall continue in force for one year, bub may be renewed from- year to year, unless objected to by tho education board | of the education district in which the class is established, and tha Minister shall not gra.ut any license which, is so o>je&ted to." Messrs Montgomery, Meredith, and Tay'or objected feo be parties to the suggested compromise, so the bill wag abandoned.

JOTTINGS.

' A return of the money paid for legal expenses in the four principal cities shows tha 1 / £2555 was paid to Mr N. H. M. Dalston (Chrisfccbarch), £581 to Dr Findlay (Wellington), £2205 to Mr H. GuUy (Wellington), '£409 to Mr B. C. Haggitt (Duoedio), £300 to Mr P. Kippenbergw (Ohristchurcb), £381- to Mr O. P. Skerrett (Wellington), £661 to Messrs Stafford, Treadwell, and Field, £1366 to Mr T. IST. Stringer (Christchurch),, £908 to Mr J. A. Tole (Auckland). The amounts for the four cities are : — Christcbuicb, £4479 ; Wellington, £4-208 ; Auckland, £950 ; Duuedin, £598.

The cost of printing the "Labour Journal" fou last year was £252, aud the rectipfs and subscriptions for the year were only £6. Mr Tregear says that a. y<*ar ago- it was decided toi~sfop the publication, bub the announcement brought so many representations from members and others as to the value set upon the journal by the working classes that the order wa3 countermanded. It was resolved to even widen its circulation, and it is now being sent to the Governments of, foreign countries, museums, reading rooms, ■ &o. Other countries are' now issuing labour bulletins. Applications for the New Zealand journal come from all parts of the world.

The vote for militia and volunteers was reduced by £1 as a protest against the treatment of the volunteers by the Government, Subsequently, on the assurance fromthe Premier of more liberal treatment to the volunteers, the £1 was reinstated, and eventually the Estimates passed.