FRIDAY, DECEMBER 17.

Otago Witness, Issue 2286, 23 December 1897, Page 28

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 17.

In the Legislative Council to - day the Laud for Settlements Bill was paused. In Committee the minimum area to be taken f«r close settlement .was ..raised from 100 to 200 acres. By the casting vote of the Chairman the clause was retained which authorises the State development of the limestone deposit on the Makearoa estate In the evening the Land and Income Assessment Bill and the Harbours Aofc Amendment Bill were passed. The Young Persons'Protection,Bill -was killed. The Victoria College Bill passed through Committee with amendments. LAND TOR SEITLEBIENTS. The-Hon. W. C. WALKER moved to commit the Land for Settlements Act Amendment Bill.—This was agreed to. In Committee, a motion by the Hon. Mr JShbimski to strike out clause 3, extending the power to borrow up to £500,000, was negatived by 25 to 6.—ln clause 5, providing that small areas down to 100 acres might be taken' for close settlement, the limit was raised from 100 to 200 atfres, an amendmeut by the Hon. Mr Ohmond to that efftcfc being carried by 16 to 15.—Clause 7, dealiug with development of land ■*nd -litne deposits in the Makareao estate, was retained 'by 16 to 15, on the Chairman* •casting vote. ■ The bill was then reported as amended, but; a" ' motion to" recommit it was carried by 16 to 15.—A motion to sttike cut clause 7 was again" lost od the'Chahrman's casting vote, the voting being 17 to 16. The bill was then again rep&rfced, and passed its final stages. JUVENILE DEPBAYITT. The Hon. W. C. WALKER moved the iecond reading of the Young Persons' Protection Sill. He said there was too much licence allowed to children by parents io letting them go out on the streets at night. As a deterrent he was convinced the measure would do much good, but it was a matter which the people themselves should take up in their homes, and by making life in families more attractive keep them more at home. The Hon. T. KELLY considered the question greatly exaggerated. The evidence put into hon. members' hands "was marked " confidential," but there was nothing in it that could not be read by anyone. The only clear thing in the evidence was that the one thing which would prevent this Imnc'orality w*s the enforcement of the CD. Act. Yet the Government had not the courage to take this step and settle the evil. What were the churches in the colony doing ? The Hon. G. M'LEAN said that the bill was condemned by evidence "marked ""confidential." The act would clear the streets of youthful offenders. He moved the adjournment of the - debate. The Hod. W. D. STEWART said that the bill would have the effecb of making parents more vigilant. The Hon. Dr GRACE eaid the only practical, suggestion in the report on the subject was that the pr<ss should be prevented from reporting this class of cases. In all fine countries people lived in the &trett. The Hon. Mr BIGG said it had not been shown that the bill would do any harm. It. required amendment, but he would support it, though it wa6 simply tinkering-with a-very wide question. By passing the bill and bringing the C.D. Act into force a great deal of good would be done. % The znobion to adjourn the debate was carried by 17 to 13. "When asked to what date he wished tbe debate postponed to, the Hon. G. M'LHAN said a fortnight "hence, which would have the effect of killing the bill. Tbe Hon. W. C. WALKTR protested, BUggeeting Monday next, but on a division Mr M'Lean's motion to kill the bill was carried by 16 to 13. The division list -was as follows :—: — Ayes (16)— Messrs L Walker, R>chardsoD, Baillie, Barnicoat, Shrimski, T. Kelly, Teldwick, Pinkerton, Terming?, Stevens, Bonar, Ormond, Oliver, Johnston, Giace, M'Lean. Noes (13). — .Messrs Stewart, .Swansau, W. X.elly, Arkwriglit, Rigg, Jenkinson, Taiaroa, Ilfeves, Bolt, Williams, Peacock, Montgomery, W. C. Walker. The House of Representatives sat all night discussing the Technical Education Bill in Committee. Tbe Premier would not allow any alteration which-would exclude denominational ' schools, and *s the opponents of denomiuatiorjalism would not give way, progress 'was reported, but not uutil a prolonged debate took piece on the tactics, which resulted in an evasion of tbe resclut:on -carried I'he previous eVen;ng to he»r Major Kemp and -Sir Walter Buller at the Bar of tbe House, Tile debate, on the TubSc Works Statement was proceeded •with in v the evening. Mr Rolle&ton moved a ftostil* amendment, but it was negatived on the' voice 6, -and the EAiimbes were under con- . sideration &i 2 o'clock this morning. The House resumed at 10 a.ml in Committee on THE EDUCATION 3JTLL. The Right Hep. Mr Seddon said they had > had short respite, and he thought the best tbing was togo on with the 'bill if there was any prospect of getting it'through, and if there was to be a. cessation of sfcoaaw»JL for vfkieii Sir Meredith was responsible.

j The debale was resumed on Mr Smith's amendment — " That the bill should not apply to the controlling authority of any denominational school." — The Right Hon Mr Seddon , opponed the amendment, and said if this* bill ' did not get through he should m«ike no effort next year to pass a Technical Education Bill. — Mr Meredith said he opposed the bill froth honest and concientious motives, and in the interest of his - constituents. — The Hon. Mr Rolleston said the whole question of educa- 1 ; tion was becoming so expensive that it would ' break down in the near future unless it was carefully guarded. The present bill had been concoct =d by two hands, and there was no . occasion for clauses 6 and 7. He had done his best to t Suet a compromise, so as to allow the , Minister to distribute the 'funds with the concurrence of education boards. The Premier was to blame if 'the bill dia not; go through. — The Right Hon. Mr Seddon contended that there were schools outside of the Education Act which were doing good work and should receive assistance in the shape of technical edu-afcioo, and to say that they should be barred b'cause the Minister for Education might exceed his powers was nob fair criticism. He was not going to give way on the point, and was prepared to sit there till Djomsday, but the majoiity musb rule. He would not havo any refetenco bo denominational schools in the bill. It was an unwarrantable proposal that the 'Minister, for Education should have fco consult an education board before issuing a license. — The R'gbt Hon. Mr Seddon's motion to report progreis waß lost on the voice?. — Mr Smith's amendment was lost by 30 to 19. Mr Tannui moved to add to the subsection — " But does not include any controlling authority which is at the same time exercising administrative direction or control over any school in the colony not receiving a grant of public money, a- d not eudowed by acts of Parliament or provincial ordinances."' He said the Prem'er told them he was prepared to stay there till Doomsday, bat there were other men in the Honse who were prepared to stay till Chrhlmag, and Easter if necesearv, and he should do his utmost to prevent this bill passing in its present -shape. He was prepared, also, to defend his action over this bill ou any platform in Canterbury. — The Right Hon. Mr SKDDOiJ said if this amtmimeat was carried some of the best schools in the colony giving technical instruction would be debarred from doing so becau c e they are not receiving public money. He snid Mr Tanuer's action now wai most inconsistent with that of 1895, when n bill was brought in containing tbe very provision which he (Mr Tanner) was now doing his b-sL to strike out of tbis bill, but which he then allowed to go without a wor^l of protest The Minister for Education iD 1895 was Mr Reeves, a Cauterbu.y member, which made all the difference to Mr Tanner, and if Mr Reeves was in charge of the present bill instead of himseif (Mr Ssddon) it would have been through long I ago He could not possibly imagine metubars i easing there was any dauger to the national I system of education by this bill. They were told I the clergy were watching the bill, bub they were not in it, and he had already said he would not allow any denominalionaliem to bs introduced into "the bill.. He asserted .that if bhis bill did notgo on to -thfe- Sta 1 ute Book the uatiqaal system of education would suffer. Boards of education > Wanted technical inatruction given in our , schools. If Mr Taunec'a amendment was - carried .tbe Bjys' Instituta in Wellington would . be debarred From,getting technical education. — After a very • lengthy debate, varied with psrsonaHties and numerous points of order, Captain Russell at ' 12.15 said he thought he would be consulting the best intsrest'i of the House by moving that progress ba reported, and he remarked that he hud seen nothing in any mook Parliament to compare with what they had bsen just witnessing. — During the debnbe which followed, the Right Hon. Mr Seddon said he still regarded the opposition to the bill as unreasonable. Us again asserted that the sy.stetn of national education was not complete till they had technical instruction in every public school in the colony. He was surprised Mr Meredith did nob recognise this, aB he knew tbe member for Ashley was sincere in the attitude he- took up over this bill. He still declared he would not have any blemish put on this bill in the shape of denommationtlism. — The Hon. Mr Steward •suggested a compromise by adding a proviso to the clause to the effect tbab in any case where an education boaid whea bo consulted shall' object to such license being granted tbe Minister shall not grant such license without the approval of Parliament. — The Right Hon. Mr Seddon said such a proposal would not be workable, and they would have a repetition of such discussions as the present whenever -the question cams before Parliament. The Houae ross for lunch at 1 o'clock. SIR W. BULLER AND JIAJOK KEMP. Tbe House Teeumed at 2.30. The Hon. Mr Rolleston asked the Premier what course he intended taking . respecting the vote of the House yesterday that Sir W. Bullar and Major Kemp shou'd be heard at the Bar of the House. He wished to say that those gentlemen were . in attendance, and would remain-in attendance till the will of thb House was known. Perhaps the Premier would report progress on tbe bill and allow it to stand over till the other matter was disposed of. The Right Hon. Mr Seddon said the bill now before the House was a most important one. and he was glad to find there was a chance of h ue arrangement being come to on ib. He should postpone the interpretation clause, and ask the House to piss clause 3. He would then move to report progress on the bill. There was anotber bill on the paper — the Native Land Bill, — which ib was necessary to dispose of. He thought that would be finished by 5.30, and the debate on the Public Works Statement could be taken at 7 30. As to the question respecting .Sir W. Buller and M»jor itmp, he should be prepared to tell the House what he intended doing in the mabber, and he should also announce what course the Government proposed to take with respect tS the remaining business of the session. The Hon. Mr Rolleston moved that progresi ba reported, with a view to ascertaining the wish of the House Sir W. Bnller and Major Kemp, bobh of whom were waiting without auy prospect of knowing vrbon their attendance would be required. Mr Guinness *aid that a motion was already before the chair. The Hon. Mr Rolleston said surely the Premier would not r§et -aside .the will of the House in this way, and he hoped he would consider its dignity by conforming to the resolution alreadvarrived at by the House respecting Sir W. Bullsr aud Major Kemp being heard at the B^r. . . Mr Meredith was prepared to accept the position as stated by the Premier, und he hopsd Mr Rolleston wouldallow the bill to proceed, in order that the will of the House might be carried out. The Hon. G F. Richardson said he hopsd the Premier wou'd agree to Sir W. Bailer aod Major Kemp b j ing haa.rd at the Bar as already ■directed by the Hoase. I lihs J&igtvL Hou. Mv ji^Dnon siid ib Appeared j to him the whole busiueaa of the cfuutr; was to

b9 subordinated to Sir W. Buller, who lived in ; Wellington and could not suffer much inconvenience by the delay. There were a great many members who desired to get away and there was mo3t important business to dispose of before the prorogation. He asked whether the businiss of the country was more important than an address from Sir W. Buller, which would probably have no effect whatever on members after they heard it. He hoped Mr Rollcsbon would support him in the course he proposed, and if that were . agreed to there would be no difficulty in finishing the business next week. He should say at the next sitting what course would be taken with respecb to the Horowbenua Bill, the , Banking Bill, and other mea-mres. Captain Russell said the chief question to consider now was whether the order of the House should be carried out. That was a most important consideration, and as matter of courtesy it would be perfectly easy ior the Premier to report progress and allow Sir W. Buller and Mvjor Kemp to be heard at the Bar. Tho -whole thing would not ocsupy more than an hour, and they couldthen resume consideration of this bill. The Right Hon. Mr Seddon said the resolution of the House was a catch division and C3uld not be called the will of the House. There were two or three members away when the division was called who had no idea it vtas coming on. He undertook, however, that before the Horowhenua B'U was proceeded with Sir WL Buller and Major Kemp should bs heard at the Bar. Mr G. Hutchison said it was announced from the chair that Sir W. Buller and M*jor Kemp should be heard at the Bir of the House whether it was a catch-division or not, and he held the will of the House should ba carried out, 60 Mr Seddon's proposal that clause 2 b3 postponed could not be done, as the clause was already amended. The Right Hon. Mr Seddon contended that tbe clause could be postponed, and they could, t-ither carry it or negative it. He defied Mr Hutchison to stop him from pursuing the course ha proposed to take. Captain Russell asked whether if any other bill was brought up respecting Horowhenua Sir W. Buller and Major Kemp would be heard at the Bar. The Right Hon. Mr Seddon said if he brought in any bill which affected Sir W. Buller and Majjr Kemp, b» should consent to their boing heard afc the Bar of the House. After furlher discussion, Ul3 Right Hon. Mr Seddon s&id if Sir W. Buller and M*j.>r K*inap were heard at ths Bar he should also ask that other parsons interested should be heard at the B&r also. "The Hon. Mr Rolleston said ib was no au3wer for the Premier to say that the division was aguatchea one. The House had came to a decision in a proper manner, and those gentleman being co:umunicafced with had had a right to ba considered. Tbe whole thing wai not creditable to tho House, especially as one side of the c»s« had been stated in violeufe language, and the other side had not been heard. Ths motion for reporting progress was lost by 35 to 20. NATIVE LAND LAWS. The Native Land Laws Act Amendment Bill was committed, and passed with slight alteration. Mr iCarkoul moved several new clauses io enable Natives possessing land .to de»l with . those lands fer the purpose. of meeting thair obligations. — Agreed to, after a lengihy duca3sion. The bill wa3 reported with amendment.', read a third time, and passed. BEKTEOOT SUGSUI. The B'aetroot i?us*r Bill was 'introduced by niefsnge from the Governor. THE PUBLIC WORKS E3TIJIATI3S. The Hon. MrHALL.JONES moved .that the ' House go into Committee of Supply on the Public Works Estimates. The Hon. G. F. RICHARDSON contended' that the Statement did not dincloae the policy of the Government respecting public works and railway expenditure, and their intention respecting future expendiburs -was unsatisfactory. It was most extravagant economy to have almost complete railway lines and leave them uncompleted. He blamed the Govarnmeut for going on with such works as the Mokohinui viaduct, which could nob be completed for many ye*r3 to come. He condemned the practice of asking for twice the amount of money that could be expended in the currant year, and poiuted out that the amount bo be spent on public works this yexr — .6730,000 — was double the amount spent on public works when the present G<svernment took office. , The Hon. Mr ROLLESTON said ib wai exceedingly disappointing in the latb hours of the session to be calied on to discuss what was a large parb of the Government's policy. The Estimates having been kepb back destroyed any ; possibility of any correct analysis of them. The - Statement itself was not worthy of criticism, and was tbe poorest thing he had evar read. Ib , was .utterly futile .for an assembly like the Houae to keep control 'over Che -Estimates, > which had got into the -condition these Public . Works Estimates -bad. Many of the votes, were larg-ly for- districts whsre they ought"' nob to .have been spent, and maay of the works were such as ought not to have been constructed out of public money, but out of rales or loans raised by local bodies. The Estimates were unsatisfactory — fitkbly, -because they showed the growth of an unfair system of the distribution of votes ior roads and bridges depending on the political support of the Ministry in power, and the payment 'Of these votes, out of money raised from the general taxpayer, who had no interest in tham. He contended that in connection wibh the Land for Settlements Ac 1 ; there was maladministration of the Advances to Settlers department, which made advanoes to^tenauts to pay their arrears witb, which he considered was an improper use of the . department. As an amendment he now moved that the Pubic Works Estimates were unsatisfacbory on lbs grouuds of their unfair distribution, the frittering away of the general taxpayer's money on works he was not interested in, and that the control of many votes should be in tho hands af local bodies.

The Right Hon. Mr SEDDON Baid he had asked Captain Russell if any amendment was Lo be movr d, and he understood none was to be made. He considered it unfair that at that , late stage of the Bession such a motion should be . sprang on the House, and pointed out that no referance was made to any particular work, and that the resolutions generally were of a frivolous oharacber^. The proposal that certain public works should be handed over to local bodies to control savoured of the days before Adam, and he contended that the Minister for Lauds 'was .just as worthy of trust in the -expenditure of. over £300,000 as the Minuter for Public Works in the peviuns Administration, t?1io had control of dG1,300,000. There was no degradation for members of Parliament ,to see that their districts were not neglected, and he pointed out that the complaint on the part of Government supporters was that too many votes had been given to districts represented by Opposition members. As to the charges against the [ administration of the Advances to Settlers . department, he said the ieoartmeat had

been a boon to settlers, and % if .the Government wished to give up the securities for advances already made there would be .plenty who -would gladly take them up. Respecting Mr Rolleston's demands Tor an amendment of local government, he pointed out that the party to which Mr Rolleston balooged had never attempted to deal with local government, and when the present Administration brought down proposals on the subject Mr Holleston had systematically blocked them. Dealing with the contention that there was not enough public works expenditure in Canterbury, ho pointed out that that district was better supplied wibh railways th»n any part of the colony, and that already £1,280,000 had been spent on the Midland railway, on which men from Canterbury. had been employed. There had been no frittering away of the public moneys on .useless public works. Respecting Mr Rolle*ton's attack on the Land for Settlements Act, he reminded him of 'his laudatory speech on the matter a few days ago, arid said Mr Rolleston was the last man he expected would attack that system. - Mr GEO. HUTCHISON diseased the resolutions moved by Mr Rolleston io detail, and supported them. He adversely criticised the Statement, and Eaid the Government; Public Work* policy was devoid of resource. Mr HOGG defended the Minister for Lands from charges of squandering votes in his department, and considered it unfair that thes6 attacks should have been made in the Minister's 'abseuco. He contended Chat no previous Art ministration b\d so impartially distributed votes for road* and bridges as tho "present 'Government. He contended that the expenditure on roads aud bridges did^more for the advancemeut of settlement than the expenditure on railways. Mr PIRANI considered that districts in which a large proportion of the public mouey wan spent contributed but little to the revenue. Mr LA.NG advocated an increased expenditure on the North Island Main Trunk railway. Mr BROWN expressed dissatisfaction with ■Iha amount Bet down for the additional telegraph line between Auckland and Wellington. Mr FLATM.4LN" agreed wibh Me Rolksfcou that Canterbury had not received it* fair share of public woi'ks expenditure, 'bub he did not agree with tbe amendment moved by the member for Ricoarbon, and he Charged Mr Rolleston with having incorrectly quoted figures. Mr J, W. THOMPSON would not take on himself the responsibility of-voting against any of the roads mentioned in the Tublic Works Estimate?, as roads were absolutely necessary for t.etfcleiQ; nb. Mr MASSEY supported the amaudmenfc, especially that portion of it which related to the way the money was spent on public works. Messrs Monk, Moore, and Buchanan also sj oke. •Mr Itolle3tou's motion was lost on the VolC -8. The Hod. Mr HALL-JONES said that every member had expressed diKsabitfuction with the money set down for his district and that was tie peculiar feature in the debits. Ho pointed "out that members of the Opposition, h*d received .altogether £190,234 for their /districted _wh'l«t msmbara supporting the _ Government, who were more numerous, jec^ived £234,332, , and ho -would ask whether that was ,not a fair allocatipn. JL'ha member 'forl'a-lea received £28.000, whilstanother Opposition member got £36,000. The member for Mataura got £11,000, tbe membar for Ciubha' £28,000, and the member tor Waipa £16,000. How then could the Opposition complain they had not received a fair share of tbe expenditure ? He referred to the speeche* of various members, and defended the cxpsudituce on additions to the Government Printing Office, and also the contract for sleepers supplied to the Government. The motion was agreed to* and the House went into Committee of Supply for consideration of the PUBLIC WORKS ESTIMATES. Immigration, £350. —Carried. Public Works dapartment, £9000.—Carried. K-iilways, new works construction, and lands, £16^,000. —A lengthy discussion took place on various lines oi railway, and the Minister for Public Worka was urged to push them on with , greater expedition, especially in. the North Island.—The. Hou. Mr Hall-Jones explained that satisfactory progress was being made with the North Island lines generally.— Mr Moore strongly advocated the extension of the Midland railway, and. urged the. Minister to increase the vote of .£20,000 set down for that line. —The Hon. Mr Lahnach hoped the Minister intended to spend the amount voted for the Obago Central (£30.000), which really only meant about £15,000 after tho liabilities ware me*. —The tot*l railways vote, passed without alteration. Permanent way mateiiab?,-£so,ooo. —Cirried. ■ Additions to ojpen lines, £150,000.—Carried, i Roads and bridges, £341,300. —Agreed--■to after discussion. — Roads on goldfields £96/892, development of goldfields £93,636, purchase of Native lands £70,829,- telegraph - extension ,£30,835, public buildings .£98,300, Ughthauaes,, &c., £817.0, rate* on Native'Jands! £500, contiogent defence £20,000, Government" Loans to "Local Bodies Act £4-3,97B—were all agreed to, and the whole Estimate* passed unaltered. T.he House adjourned at 3.15 a.m. till 2.30 ■p.m. on Monday for consideration of local bills.