THE CITY ABATTOIR.

Otago Witness, Issue 2210, 9 July 1896, Page 14

THE CITY ABATTOIR.

A conferenco between the Taieri County Council and the City Council was held in the To«u Hall ouThumliy afternoon with the object of arriving at au amicable nrraogarnenb with reference to a site for the city abattoir. Tho following members of tbe City Council were present :— Messrs H»rdy, Gore, S,wan, Hayoes, M'Gregor, Cohan, Carroll, Morrison, Solomon, and R. C&isholm. Toe Taiari County Council were represented by the followiug gentlemen : Messca GrAhaiu, yamsoa, Todd, Snow, Ooghton, A. ChisUolm, aud Harrison. Dipnbfttions from the Dunediti Sanitary Institute, the stock and station agents, and th 9 butchers were oUo iv attendance.

Mr J. Graham, who was voted to the chair, said he thought it would be a3 well to discuss each site suggested that day on its merits, arjd eudeavour to Bgroe upou a site which would bssb suife the icquiftjiDcnfcs of the district ia which it was w<iuk»d, aud which would least incwenict-'C-* th»j t vtvtflling public. His owa impression \~ia- Lh*.f. sdub'Aiicti should not b9 erect' d within riO c:;a.in)> ot :Ju X ulorai.sbream, the smell from \vhich ab times was almost unendurable. No. 1 site appeared to b3 badly situated so far as sanitary ic/.iuireinents wore concerned. No. 2 sits was. not suitable because it was on a branch railway lioo, and if the co'iliery there ceased operations thtre would be no access to ib. His objection to No. 1 site was nob on sanitary grounds. He objected to it because it was on a road where it would iuoreaso tho kaf&e iacaaieaimtls.

Another objection was that nearly all the people in that locality lodged an objection j against that site. A petition against it from 32 j batchers oub o£ a possible 35 was also lianded in to tha council. ,He thought those objections were sufficient to oondemn the site aa a site for abattoirs. He was of opinion that an abattoirshould be on a site on a main line, where it would have the advantage of frequent trains. It wanted plenty of pure air and plenty of pure water ; and he. thought that a sibe piwcsring all these requisites could be gob immediately behind the Abottsford railway station. They, howeyeri had better discuss each site on its merits.

Mr Cohen asked if it was now proposed to open this question ab initio. He thought that they were only 4 to discuss No. 1 and No. 2" sites.

The Chairman s»id his impression was that they were met to ttiecuss the whole question of any site proposed. Mr Gore said a deputation from the City CouQcil waited on the Taieri Council asking them to concede the sit 3at the cattle yards. He was not aware that the City C^unctl had any intention of building on any other sifce. They were now unanimou* that tb&b site was infinitely the besb site around Dunedin, taking all things into consideration. The site was close to the city mains, where they could get a good supply of water. Then the Government intended to pub a railway sidiug there, which would reach within about three chains of the boundary of the land. He noticed in that morniag's piper a letter which was evidently written by an interested p&rty, who spoke about the enormous quantity of water thaG would be put into the Kiikorai stream from the abattoir, with tbe daugei- of flooding the low ground adjacent to it. All the water that would be required at the abattoir cotfd, however, be taken by an inch pipe ; aud to Ray that that would make any appreciable difference to the Eaikorai stream required a great stretch of the imagination. If the council were compelled to go to Shand's ground the abattoirs would be a fiuancial failure, as the butchers would never patroDHe' them. Mr R. Chisholm, in order to plane the conference in order, moved — " That the scope of the whole discusiioa be limited to No. 1 &ite." He understood they had met to discuss the mtjriti of the site in raspect to which they had made application to the Taieri Council. If they went into the whole question they would be there till the next morning. Mr Snow seconded the mutiou. .Me IJamson moved as ati amendment — '* That No. 1 and No. 2 sites be discussed." Mr Morkison seconded the amendment. i On a vote being taken the amendment was ' lost and the motion subsequently carried, i Mr SotOMON said the position seemed to him to be this : The City Council had no axe to | grind ; neiSher had they auy personal feeling lie the matter. Their only object was to ! provide proper sanitary slaughterhouses for the purpose of supplying the inhabitants of the city and surrounding district with meat. He submitted with great respect to the Taieri Council that it was their dnty to assist the City Counoil to provide that which everybody thought was absolutely necessary. As to No. 2 bite, in hi» opinion it ' was extremely doubtful that the City Council would proceed to erect abattoirs ou that site if the Taieri Council refused to grant pc-rmii»ion to build on No. 1 site, whioh was the b3»b one that the City Council could flud. A gr*afc de*l had been said about discharging water into the Eaikorai stream. Anybody would think that tbe water afc present discharged into the Kaikorai stream by gentlemen who owned slaughterhouses in the neighbourhood was of the purest possiWe character. — (Laughter.) He might tell the Taieri Council what he had told them at MoFgiel the other day— that the City Council would make 6uch arrangements in connection with the abattoir that the water dinoharged into, the stream would be absolutely free from impurities. • Some gentleman hid written to tha paper- that morning stating that the volume of water tint would b2 discharged into the Kaikorai stream would be dangerous to the district; ; but notbiDg was more preposterous. The same gentleman suggested that the City Council should bay up Ihe slaughterhouse in thaV ueigubourhoo 3. Now putting those two ideas together he (Cr ' Salomon) farmed a rough opinion as to who wrots that Jelter. However, any gentlemau who h»d a slaughterhouse in that neighbourhood might disabuse his mind of the idea that the City Council would buy it, even if it only cost sa.

Mr Hardy preEeuted a memorial signed by 192 residents and ratepiyera iv the neighbourhood oFNo. 1 site, expressing their approval of tho T»isri Council granting perm ; ss'on to the City C.uucil to erect abattoir on that site. Mr Samson said a great deal had been taid *nd written in refereaco to this matter, and all the writings and all the sayings were directed si most in one direction and that was to point him out as a busje monster of selfishness.—(Cries of "No! No!") With reference to the letter in that morning's paper, Mr Solomon had actually attributed that letter to him.

Mr Solomon : I beg yoar pardon.

Mr Samson s.iid he took that to be Mr Solomon's meaning, and he wan'sure that others did the earne ; but until within an hour previously he (Mr Sam*6n) never saw the letter, and he did not kn« w it was in the paper until Mr Solouioh met him and siid, •' That was a grand letter of yours, Srouod."— (Laughter.) He bad been accused of having led the Taieri Council, and with haviDg led them astray on this matter ; bub be bad never tried to influence a single member outside of the council chambers. He l'elfc keenly biing denouueed the way he had been in the rows by speakers bhere and elsewhere. He did not think that soino of them had taken a p;oper view of the matter, or else they woul»i Imc m-u tha'.. the Taieri County Council bud m> ofcber way of getting .over tfae difficulty than by doing as they had done. The speakers must have forgofcteo the history of tha abattoirs question, or ib musfc have been convenient for them to forget it. He proceeded to give a history of the question, and said if tbe City Council bad been shrewd business uieu they would never have purchased No. 1 site, because oa the night that they pasted a cheaue for £500 fot the purchase of the land

they had a letter from their own aolioitora in* forming them that an injunction bad been applied for.

Mr Haynes :- Let Mr Samson speak about his owu council. We know our own business;

Mr Samson i&idhe was giving a "rehash" of what took place. He went on to say that there was another aspect of this question. He dared say that the council had taken legal advice on this question. Mr Solomon had said that everything would be done to discharge the watqr from the abattoir into the stream pure ; but as the law itood they could not even pat pure water into a stream that ran into a borough.

Mr : We will chance that.

Mr Samson proceeded to gay that the' City Council would bo in the same position" as* befora. If they had not had a legtl opinion on the matter ho had one, and be would read it. He then road an opinion by Mr Thornton to the effect that under section 5 of •• Tho Abattoir and Slaughtsihouses Act Amendment Act 1895" it would be illegal for the Corporation of Danedin if, ait^r erecting abattoirs on the site first selected, the corporation songhfc to drain into the Kiikorai stream, that being * stream that flowed through a borough. The discharge of drainage, putrefied or unputreßed, into snch a »tn;*m was absolutely birred. If the drainage were put into tbe stream, any person could move the Snpremt Court for an injunction to roßtrain tbe proceeding. He had given his oonncil a lot of cheap law, and he bad endeavtured to do the same by the City Council. If they did not take advantage of it they would have to put up with the consequences. The City Council um^t find a suitable site on which to build sbAttoirß, because be held that the site originally telectfd by them wss not a suitable site, and ntver would be.

Mr Cohkn moved—" That in the opinion oE this conference tho sits known as No. 1 site is the most sui'able for tbe purpogfttpf iv public abattoir, aod, therefore, respectfully solicit ths Taieri Coancl to give their sanction to the erection on such tsite of the proposed abattoir." He said the position of the matter was this : The feelmg of the City Council was usbesitathigly in favour oE No. 1 site if ib could be obtained, but if not, they were determined that an abitfcjir should- bo erected on some other Bit*. The oanterence had been criled nob at the request of the City Council, but at tbe request of the Taieri Council, who wished to know-how fat public opinion supported one site or the other. It was also called to enable the City, Council .to lay additional information before the Taiea Council, so as to get them 'to come to tt> ooneluaion upon this vexed qaes* tion.

Mr Havnes seconded the motion.

Mr S. S Cambeon, insp? cfcor of abattoirs for the City Corporation, said there seemed to be* two sanitary questions about which there were some doubts. First- of all there was the »mell of the fumes from the chemical works in the neighbourhood of No. 1 aite; secondly, the purity of tho drainage passing «way from the abattoirs. • It mast be remembered thafeodours Arising from putrefying organic mattsr were distinctly harmful to meat, bub the fumes or odours co'noiog from inorganic matter, except in the csse of distinctly poi»onou» matter, such as arsenic, produced no harmful effect on meat. With regard to the drainage, it might be pointed out that the most modern appliances for the puriflcjktion of draioage were such that the water, after being pub" through the necessary process, was fib to drink. A» regorsded. the blood, it would be caught and turned into manure.

*he Chairman said the question which weigh* d vrilh "be Taieti Council y was how the abattoir would affect the convenience and sifety of the public. Mr Morhison pointed out that slaughterhoufes were created in tbe centre of the city in the old eouatry. Dr Ogston- said he believf d that in the Home country Htock were not allowed to be driven, except during certain hours. Meat driven over dusty roads in 'open carts and waggons was utterly uufit for cansumption. He pointed out that meat should bo carried in properly* constructed waggons or railway trucks', so that, it would nob be liable to' be infected by germs ia the way that it- was at present. It wodld also be a good thing if there wa? a central murket for the reception of meat, where itcould be, kept frczen or chilled until required for consumption. All the meat in the shops should be covered, instead of beirjg exposed ia the way it was at present. As to the qhemical works being in the neighbourhood of No. 1 site, that was an advantage, as the fumes from the works would arrest putrefaction, aud chemical*) could also be obtained cheap from the works for disiafectiDg purposes. Mr Samson had referred to the matter of drßiaago, but it was perfectly e«y to render tho water from the abattoir perfectly inuo^uous ; in fact, -rather purer than oar to»tu water.— (Laughter.) Mr Pktbe said Mr Samson did not want his occupation taken from him, and therefore he fought hard against the erection of abattoirs. Ho (Mr Petre) did not blame him for doing so. The council need not trouble themselves about the matter of drainage, because no one could recover damages unless they could prove that tho water from the abattoir was & nuisance.

After some further discussion, in which Messm Johnston, gandilinds, K. Chiaholm, Dawson, and Dr Will took part, the motion was put to the, meeting and carried, only Mr Samson dissenting.

At Friday's meeting of the Taieri County Council the City Council's application for per> misßion to erect- a public abattoir. on tbe site originally selected again came up for considers tiou.

Cr Snow moved—" That the application of the City Council be granted." H<s hoped ths council »v u'-l be unanimous in their voto, aud Bay " yes " to the application. Cr Nichol seconded the motion. He thought that the county council had been obstructive locg enough. The people who had signed the petition to the council wanted the abattoirs on the site selected by the City Council, and he thought they were the bast judges in the matter. Cr Harrison said he did not think the suitability or unsuitably e£ tho fliO

was a question for the council to couBider at all. What they had to consider was the legal aspect of the matter, and whether the ratepayers were iai&vour of abattoirs being erected on the site i6lected by the City Council. It seemed from the petition that the ratspayers were in favour of- permission being granted to the City Council ; but he understood that there was a legal point which had not been got over with regard to drainage. It was said that the drainage would be. clear wa l er. He did not think the County Counoil had anything to do even with that. Our legislators were supposed to have known what sort of water would drain away from an abattoir ; and if they said that no drainage from an abattoir was to go through a borough, he did not think the County Council had a right to grant the permission asked for. The counoil had bad trouble enough in diverting water from one plooe and another, and until he was satisfied with regard to the legal point he had referred to, he would vote against granting permission. Ci'^Snow said the legal point was nob a question for the Couuty Council to consider. If it MFaB not legal to drain inta a stream running through a borough, then . the whole expense would fall upon the City Corporation.

Cr Samson observed that there 'was no doubt that there was a legal point at issue, and he would suggest that considsratlou of tho matter be adjourned for a month so that a legal opinion might be obtained.

Or Snow : No more adjournments

Cr Sajkon proceeded to say if the council's solicitors advised that thero was no legal objection to the granting of permission, and that no ratepayer or anybody else would be put into the position of having to go to the Supreme Coutt to protect themselves, then he would not further oppose tho granting of the application. Eren if the City Council went to Parliament to put mattars right, he would not get up any further opposition. lie did no j think it was the Couuty Council's duty to give their sanotion to the troction of abattoirs on the site the City Counoil had selected if it wou'd be the means of CA.usiog anybody to go to the Supreme Court to proiect themselves.

Cr Hahbison quite agreed with Cr Samson's suggts(ioi). If the council gota favourable opinion from a solicitor not connected with ths City Council, he would withdraw his opposition to the granting of the application.

Cr CfiiSHOUt vt&s gratified to find thftt opposition to the .application was gradu&lly'dwiudiing, and that it had now coma to a very small po'nt incited. He considered that neither tho suitability of the fite nor yet the legal aspect of the, matter need bo considered by tho County Counoil. The question for them to consider was whether it would be in the interest of the ratepayers to gr«nb the applicaiion. He thought that question hid bean answered by the petition from the 192 ratepayers who had expressed their approval of the council granting the application.

Cr OuGifroN said the petition tbat came before the council now was the only petition in which the signatures had been vouched for. .In every instance that this matter bad been considered he had given his vote iv the supposed interest of the ratepayers. He was very pleased to hear that Cr Chinholm admitted that the interest of the ratepayers was the only opeoial thing the council had to cmfridci'. As the ratepayers had gone back on their opinion he would also go back on his vote. Cr Todd said it there was any chance of the Bite being an illegal one be was inclined to vote against granting the application. ° Cr Harrison oba< rved that the last time the council granted the application they caused the Cavcrsbam Borough to defend themselves in the Supreme Court;. ■'Cr- Samson explained that it was not the borough but a private individual that went to court over the matter.

The Chairman was wry glad to see tbat the council were approaching to something like unsfiimity in the matter. It appeared to him that if this legal difficulty were cleared away the council would be unanimous in their consent to the abattoir being erected on No. 1 site. He thought this legal question should be settled laefore 4 the matter was finally dealt with.' It would not be -wise for tho council to put their ratepayers to expense in contesting the legal point._ He was prepared to withdraw his opposition to No. 1 site if no trouble would be caused to the ratepayers by grantiug permission to^the'ereetion of abattoirs on' that site. Cr Snow : What trouble can there be ? Not the slightest.

Cr Chisholm said if the slaughterhouses at present existed in the Kaikorai without draining into the Kaikorai stream, why could not a pabl : c abattoir do tee same thing? He thought the council were raising up bogies for themselves. Why should they conclude that there would' be a breach of the law if public abattoirs were erected on No. 1 site P

Cr Ou3hton: We onght not to make any assumption at all. We don't know where they are going to drain. Cr Samson moved as an amendment to the motion — " That consideration of the application be adjourned for a niontti, and that a legal opinion be obtained on the matter in the meantime." - Cr Harrison seconded the amendment, which was carried by four votes to three, Crs Nichol, Todd, Samson, and Harrison voting for, and Crs Snotv» Chisholm, and' Oughton Sgainst it. Cr Snow moved as a further amendment— " That the consent of the council to the application be withheld for a week until a legal 'opinion is obtained." Cr Chisholm seconded this. He thought that the County Council should not keep the City Council waiting for an answer longer than they could help. Cr Snow observed that they were treating $he superior body with contempt. Cr Oughton thought the County Council was the superior body. ' Cr Show ; We are inferior in the eyes of the law and in. the eyes of the country. , After further discnssion, Cr Samson's amendment was carried on the casting vote of the iphairman. Cr IJabbison moved as a further amendment—"That the chairman be authorised to grant" the permission asked for by the City Council on condition that there is no legal ob-

Cr Samson seconded the amendment, whioh was lost, and the motion to adjourn consideration of the matter for a week until a legal opinion was obtained was subsequently carried as the substantive motion by five votes to three. Cr Sauson moved— "That an opinion be obtained from Messrs Stout, Mondy, and Sim." Cr Harrison seconded the motion.

Or Todd moved as an amendment—" Tbat the council obtain the opinion of their own solicit3rß."

The amendment was seconded by Cr Chisholm, and carried by five votes to three. Or Todd moved as a further amendment— "That an opinion be obtained from Messrs G. and J. A. Cook."

Cr Samson seconded the amendment, whioh was lost, and the motion 'that the opinion of the council's own solicitors bs obtained was subsequently carried by five votes to two.

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