DUNEDIN PRESBYTERY.

Otago Witness, Issue 2199, 23 April 1896, Page 29

DUNEDIN PRESBYTERY.

An ordinary meeting of the Dunedin Presbytery, held on the 21st, was attended by the Revs. J. Gibb (moderator), W. Will, J. M. M'Kerrow, W. Hewitson, R. R. M. Sutherland, J. Kirkland, J. M. Fraser, W. H. Ash, A. Cameron, K. J. Porfcar, I. Jolly, I. K. M'lhtyre, A. M. Finl&yson.A. Greig, J. Christie, T. Paulin, Drs Onnlop and Watt, Messrs O. Thomson, J. Waugh, W. Hutton, J. "G. Sawell, M'Tweed, &ndJ. Patersoa. THE BEY. W. FINLATBON. The first business considered by the presbytery was an adjourned application by the Rev. W. Finlayson tor admission to the church. The Rev. W. Will moved— '-The presbytery, taking into consideration that a similar application was transmitted by this presbytery to the last meeting of synod, that the synod refused to grant that application, and that no new reasons h&ve arisen warranting the presbytery to forward this renewed application, the presbytery decline to receive it, and recommend Mr Finlayeon, if he wishes his case to be reconsidered, to apply to the synod ifcaelf at its next meeting." He thought tbe motion would meet all the requirements of the presbytery's regulations, and would put them in right relationship to the synod. Dr Watt seconded the motion. He was of opinion that it w.w the only course to pursue to avtid's'ultifyiug themselves. The Moderator said he should like the presbytery to cont-ider tbe matter iv relation * to tbe fact that at the present 'moment the mifsion stations of the church were seriously undermKEned. They had nothing like a sufficient number of men for the work to ba done. The Rev. I. K. M'lntyrs pointed out that the motion was exactly the same as the motion that was dtcUred incompetent at a previous meeting of the presbytery. It was merely that motion with explanations added. He would recommend that the presbytery should keep straight with their regulations and decide to allow Mr iftnlajson's application to He on the table for six months. The Riv. W. Will : I would like to explain to Mr M'lntjre that, in tbe light of the explanation, the- motion declared incompetent at .last meeting was competent. The Rev. A. M. Finlayson moved—" That the motion is incompetent." He said they were taking the functions of the synod into their own bands in a* case that was before the synod itrelf. It, however, whs quite competent for Mr Finlayaon to ask the presbytery to request the synod to reconsider its own decision. The motion, on being put, was declared to be ' carried unanimously. CAM, TO MB ASH. The presbytery then proceeded to consider the call to the Rev. W. H. Ash by the Bluff congregation. — Dr Cunlop said he had communicated with th» Ua-6-usbourne congregation with reference to 'he ms.tter, and a congregational meeting bad been held on Monday last, when a deputation was appointed to attend the meeting of presbytery to plead iv the interests of the congregation. That w»3 all he had to nay about the matter. Tha Modekator, who had been appointed comftmsioner to support tha call on behalf of the Bluff congregation, s»id he thought the presbytery should avail itself of this opportunity which Mr A*b had given them to loosen him from his pre ent charge and send him to the Bluff. The Bluff was already an important place, and it was certaiuiy one of those places which was bound to increase in importance. It was very- desirable that a strong man— such a ' nan as Mr Ash — should take charge of the congregation. He was just the man to do the work down there. If he were not to go down the caufo of Presbyterian<sm would be injured in thai; community for many a day. Mr Gibb alio read a letter from the Rev. J. Gibson Smith in support of the call, the writer stating that tbe presbytery must be convinced that there_w&B bub one word of counsel they could give to Mr Ash — that w»h, to accept the call. The Rev. Mr Ash said Mr Smith in his advocacy of the Bluff cause had given matters a twist, and it was only fair to the Rivensbourne congregation to state what really took place. What he had said was thit: that unless he fcnew that something would bo done to keep the Bavensbeurne congregation on a platform where it would have a regular supply he would not go to the Bluff. It was decided to hear Messrs M'Calloch, Da Lacy, JamieioD, and Peterson, the commissioners from tbe Ravensbourne congregation. Mr M'Cuiloch said at a meeting of the congregation held on Monday eight the people were ab'olubely unanimous in their objection to * being severed from Mr Ash. They were reajly not in a position to do without that gentleman. The circumstances of the congregation made it very desirable to have a young and vigorous man settled as minister there. There was aothiog in the reasons of -the Bluff congregation that did not apply to the Raven: bourne congregation. If Mr Aib. left, the congregation were really not in a position to x make another call, and it simply meant that they mutt go back to a mission station, and that all the good work that had been done would be undone. Mr. Tie Lacy also ipoke briefly in support of Mr Ash being re'aiued at Ravensbourne. Mr Jamieiea said there were three other cb.urob.9i at Ravensbourne, and if, Mr Ash left the Presbjteriin congregation would diminish considerably, while the other 'denominations would gain. In tba> eveut, also, 'a great many of tbe co'igt -ga'i'ju would not sign another call.

The Moderator said the Bluff, in tbe interests of Presbyterianism, was, more important than Ravensbottrne. There was no reason to suppose that Ravensboums was going to evaporate because Mr Ash was going to lsave it, and he could not think that the congregation could be in a particularly healthy condition if it w&s really going to dissipate in the event of Mr Ash leaving.

The Rev. W. H. Ash said : I wish to explain to the presbytery how it was thab I went to the Bluff. I did not go of my own motion. Since the time of my induction at Rsvtnsbourne I have carefnlly refrained from puttiug myself ' in the way of being heard in vacant churches. Better churches than at the Bluff have been vacant and I have not gone near any of them of my own motion, not even to preach for a day. Nor, if I had not been asked to go, would I hare been foand at the Bluff at all. I first went thither to fill up a Sabbath as supply, and I returned by the strong wieb. of t several of the leading ministers of the church, whose voice I took to ba practically the voice of ' the church. The understanding was that I ~ should not cotnmiE myself, but should be guided by the. course of events. - If no c*U came to me, then that settled the matter. If a call did come, I could consider what my duty ■ was. Of course, by adopting that course I was laying mystlf open to receive a slap in tfee • face, but if it wat my duty to go down I was content to run the risk of . that. While at the Bluff I* was asked if I would be willing to come to them, supposing a call were ■ given. I had formed a ' good opinion of the place as a sphere for work. I realised Uk importance to tko ohucoh of tuning &

strong oongregatfon there and the great need of the place itself. I liked the people, and I replied that if it was my duty to come I would willingly do so. Bat I said also that I did nob see what I was to gain by exchanging. As far as I could juigo it would mean loss ti> mo. Aud that is my opinion still. The place will certainly grow, but not so rapidly as aome people think. I have had experience of this sort of expectancy, and I know what it means. I said, moreover, and said distinctly, that my present charge had to be considered. If it was to be ruined by my leaving I could not possibly leave. I have made that dear to all parties from the outcet. I have conftrred with several members of the presbytery, asking what could and would be done for Ravensbourne and St. Leonards if I did leave, bat the answer has practically been that these congregations must take their chance. Of course, the Bluff is a much larger sphere than that at Ravensbourne, where I we are cursed with a multiplicity of small churches. At the Bluff the church is seated for 300 or 350, and on two occasions while I was there a congregation o? fully 200 was present But Rwensbourne and St. Leonards are important too. The people have been unfortunate also in their church history ; nevertheless, time after time they have responded to the call of new preachers. They have done exceedingly well since I have been with them, aud the footing upon which it is my privilege *o stand with them, young and old, is one for whi«h any man might well fe»l profoundly thankful. Tney are contributing about twice as much per member as the members of our largest Dunedin churches contribute ; and thsy have worked well, nob only in their own interests, but in the interests of the church as a whole. At present they are ranking op £150 for the sustent&tion fund, and the presbytery has guaranteed the remaining £25 which is necessary. It is pretty evident that the presbytery guarantee will have to be I dropped, but Mr Waddellhas been good euougb to agree that if I will do certain work for the Oat!o>k, he will t*ke it up —till, at anyrate, the meeting of next synod, when the sustentation fuud regulations"*will, I hope, be altered. Of course, if I remain at Ravonsbourne, I run a risk. The presbytery's guarantee will fall through, the Outlook arrangement may not continue, and the Mutenbiibion fund regulations may remain unaltered. Bub I am willing to take the risk if it is my duty to stay. And I confess that, after the most serious and prayerful ■ consideration of tbe whole matter, and after ! talking it over with a nuinbar of ministers and others, I am unable to justify myself in leaving my present daty. For it is idle to pretend that R^veusbourne and St. Leonards would not suffer. 'They anight not be »We to get another minister at all, and certainly they would not get one on the sustentation fund p'atform. The congregation would thui suffer infiuitely more than i< the ca«e usuitlly when a minister leaves. i OF course I ftel very keenly the honour the • Buff people hnve done me, and the willingness they have shown to do everythiag in their power to fuclhsr ma'.ters to meet my wishes, but they cannot deal with this difficulty. Aud, as I have said, they knew from the beginning of . its exiiteßc?, and also that it must be dealt with by the piesbytery in such a* way as would •noure not only the continued life but also to | ion>e extent the health of the congregation which I would b*ve to leave. The presbytery should, I think, consider it carefully, for Ravensbourne and Sb Leonardo, in my opinion, deserve well at the hands of the church. It has been remarked to me thab I am the se,r?anb nob merely of a congregation but; of tbe church as a whole. Thab is perfeotly true. I submitted myself to tbe church when I went to the Bluff to preaoh, and I am Willing to submit myself to it again now. If the presbytery says, by a strong majority, tbab it is my duty to go to the Bluff I will go, but it-- must take the responsibility of the translation. If it will not take that responsibility neither wiil I. I feel that I dare nob do it. I bow leave the matter with the presbytery, and will only add thab whatever may be the result I shall cheerfully abide Ijy it. j Dr Dunlop moved — " That the tranelation is not expedient, and that the call be not pub into Mr Ash's hands." . Dc Watt seconded the motion. He thought it would be absolutely ruinous to tbe Ravensbourne congrpgatiou if Mr Ash accepted the call from the Bluff. ; The Rev Mr Sutherland thoroughly agreed with Dr DunJop'g motion. He thought a great deal of injury was done to the church and to the cause of religioD through ministers receiving a call from a congregation as the call of God and. then within a very short period coquetting with vacancies. The presbytery ought not to countenance that sorb of thing ; and it would' ba doing infinitely more damage nob only to the church, bnt to religion, than any damage that could come to the Bluff through Mr Ash not going there. The Rev. Mr Kirkland moved as an amendment — " That the translation is expedient, and that the c*ll be pub in Mr Ash's hands with a recommendation that he accepb if." The Rev. Mr Gueig seconded the amendment. He thought the presbytery should say that Mr Ash should go and be minister of the more important congregation. The Rev. Mr Portbr suppoited the amendment. He thought th»t the expectations thab the Bluff congregation had formed that the call would be accepted should not be disappointed. The Moderator, in referring to whab Mr Sutherland said with regard to ministers coquetting with vacancies, said considering the fact that in many manses, if not in presbyteries, they were debuting the question as to whether the church should not adopt the Wesleyan system of periodically removing ministers, this solemn tirade about coquetting struck him as ver>y absurd. How could it possibly be considered as coquetting on the part of a man who had been four years in the place ? The Rev. W. Will was very much in sympathy with the amendment. Ib was in the interests of the church that Mr Ash should go to the Bluff. The Rev. Mr M'Keerow held that it was in the interests of the church that Mr Ash should remain where he was. If ha left Ravensbourne the congregation could not be continued on tbe same footing as now, but would have to become a church extension charge. Ib ought to be as easy to "find a minister for tbe Bluff as for Rivensboarue. On a vote being taken, seven voted for tbe amendment and 11 for the motion, which was accordingly carried.