FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 6.

Otago Witness, Issue 2168, 12 September 1895, Page 21

FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 6.

In the House of Representatives this afternoon replies to questions aud a discussion arising therefrom rccupied the whole of ehe afternoon sitting. Iv the evening the Government Licecsing Bill was considered in Committee. The proviso for taking the poll of the eleotorc on the same day as the general elections are held was struck ont. The prohibitionUt3 succeeded iv carrj ing an amendment by which electors can vote far three questions, so that those who wish to put down the liquor traffio will be able to vote for local and colonial prohibition and for reduotion also. But the same succtss did not attend the effort to have prohibition carried by a bare majority of these voting. The Committee divided twice on the question, but the result was the same on each occasion, 30 voting in favour of the threo-flfth* majority while 21 voted for a bare majority. BKPLIES 10 QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Mills, The Hou. J. M'KENZIB said inquiry would be made, and if there was any necessity for investigation as to infection caused by noxious iDsect pests it would bs done. Replying to Mr Steward, who asked if the Minister for Lands in view of the enormous lostes sustained tbis winter by flookowners in the interior of Canterbury and part of Otftgo, will arrange for the suspension of the cheep tax or for a remission of rents, or both, The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said he had twice already told the House that this matter would be inquired into, and he thought Mr Steward* might leave it in the hands of the Government. The hon. gentleman surely did not mean that the sheep tax should b8 remitted all over the colony to relieve cases where sheep had really been loet by sdow. It would not have general applica f ion. The same course would be pursued with respect to rents. Replying to Mr Flatman, The Hon. Mr M'KENZIE said he would deal with the matters of Crown tenants' rent and sheep tar where lo«8 of stock h»s taken place through snow. . Replying to Mr Flatman whether the Ministe* tm Land „ would at once consider the advlw

*ility of hav'mg all cattle and sheep slaughtered for export inspected before being shipped, The Hon. Mr J. M'KENZIE said this wag a Stir subject for consideration, aud it would receive »ttcntion. Repljing to Mr G. W. Rufee'l, TLe Hon. Mr SEDDON said it was proposed to appoiut a Deputy Pullic Trustee, but it was not proposed to iucreaf ed the number of officers in the Public Trust Office. When tbe salary was voted by tbe House tho Government would Btite who the officer would be. Replying to Mr M'Nab whether the Government would p'ovide for the supervision of publio billiard rootus, and make tbetn subject to came in^petti n as licensed premises, The Hod. Mr SEDDON said if the question ras tit.ade to app'y to gambling decs southing mght be done in that icspect. • K^plyicg to Mr Montgomery, whether in view of the question raised as to the position of the funds in tie Public Trust Office and Po3t Office Savings B.nk an amendment to "The Public • Revenues Act 1891 " will be brought in in order to pluce beyond all doubt the question as to the position of th*FC funds, Tbe Hon. Mr SEDDON said as far as tbe Public Trust Office was concerned the Public Trustee considered that nothing was required to m»ke the act more satisfactory than it wai , but if the law was found not to be in a satisfactory state in this respect steps would be taken to have au amoudment made. Beplyirjg to Mr Lawry, whether the Colonial \ Treasurer has seriously considered what the effect on his revenue may bo if the Alcoholic Liquors Sale Control Act Amendment Bill or to th» relative measure introduced by the member for Mat aura becomes law, and if, as believed by many, an onormous falliug-off in tte revenue would result from the passing of either of the b.ll?, how will he provide for the deficiency, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said be regarded Mr M'Nfcb'u bill m being aa dead as Julius Cresar, and Mr Ward need have bo frar on that ecoro. As to tbe Government bill, if tho majority of the House decided to put the" liquor traffic under thorough control the Legislature would have (o take the consequence. Replying to Mr Maelin, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said the matter of the Government Life Insurance department still churging 7 ptr cent, interest on loans to members «h receiving the attention of the Colonie.l Treasurer. Replying to Mr Allen, Tho Hou. Mr SEDDON said he had not been Advised to place naval artillery volunttera on the lame footing in respect to distribution of Martini-Henry rifles as other volunteers. Replying to Mr Morrison, ■TOOST FUNDS. Mr MONTGOMERY moved the adjournment of the House, to refer to an answer given ,»y the Premier with respect to ths position of Ihe trust funds. He said he should like to know the real powtion of these funds, and whether they were free and unpledged as stated by Mr Ward, or whether they were not free. He was not satisfied with the position of the trust fund?, and he thought the House and country would be much better satisfied if an amendment of the Public Uevenueß Act were brought in to ensure that those funds could not be pledged for any purpose at all. He hoped the Government would recomider this matter, as there was a good deal of dissatisfaction boih in the House and in the country on the matter. A lengthy disoaseion a'ose on various , matters, and lasted until tbe 5.30 adjournment. TUX CIOVBBNMEST LICKSSINO BILL. Tho Alcoholic Liquors Sale Control Act Amendment Bill was further considered in Committee. CUuse 2, interpretation.— Tha Hon. Mr Sjsdbon moved to alter tbe interpretation clause bo that Motion 3 (poll to be taken on the day of the fenf ral election) shall not come into opera- "" the day before the day appointed for ihe fir»t geceral election of members of (he House after the commencement of this act. — After * lengthy discussion, Mr Skddon withdraw his amendment.— Several members urged tbat it would be very inconvenient to country members to take the poll on the s*me day ss the general eUction.— The Hon. Mr Seddon said there was no doubt it was a great conBideration in country districts, and to those engaged in agricultural pursuits it was a great inoourenience to leave their work »nd travel long distance^ bat on the general election day all could leave their employment and record thtir votes. It vas not co much a matter of looonvenieoce in towns, where they could vote without suffering any less. He should be prepared, although it would add to the cost of the eleotions, to smnid the bill by having separate polling booths and separate officers. He wished to get the voice of the whole of the people on ib* licensing question, as he felt they could never have refct till thfe important question was decided. If the people of the colony wanted prohibition they must have prohibition. He now hoped the House would give av&traigbt-out vote as to whether or not the licensing election ■bould take place on the s»me day »s tbe general election. — Mr Haul-Jones moved an •mrndment that the licensing poll Bhould not be taken on the same day sr the general etec.tion. — Aye% 31 ; Noes, 31. — Mr Guinness roted agtinet the amendment and in favour of the clause as it itood in the bill. The clause vas carried without alteration. Clause 3, grant of licenses subject to tbe vote of the electors. — Mr G. W. Russell moved to itrike out the sub-section tbat asked whether tbe number of licenses in the district is to continue.—The Hon. Mr Seddon could not accept tbe amendment, aB the elector* had as much right to have this issue submitted to them as any other. — Sir R Stout saw no reason why the amendment ehould not be accepted, as it ■would Dot affect the bill. — Mr Mackinsosh said there should be only one question — rivbibition or no prohibition. He held there should be r.o liceuse taken away till a majority bad decided on this question. His opinion was that local option was not a proper system. It was absurd, un-English, and unfair. — Mr Hall-Jones supported the amendment. — Mr Hogg considered it an ingenious attempt to deft at the object of the bill.— Mr T. Mackenzie said the object of subsection 1 was to enable people to understand what they were doing, and he saw no reason why it should bs struck out. — Mr Allen asked whether the Premier would accept a compromise that voteg for reduction aud local prohibitioD, if prchibition was not carried, FhouUl count for reduction. If to inserted a clause of this kind he (Mr Allen) would veto against the amendment. — The Hon. Mr Ruivi-b thought it better to lewe thi- clnuie as il stood, viih four issues, wh'ch wss ttf bent w.<y lo kt th- p- ojile see what they *were voliag for — Mr Ix.u<s.")l'.s nmeiHlmrut was loat by 42 to 21, aud the lubsection retained in the bill. Mr Millar moved to strike cut sub«ection 2 whether tbe cumber of licenses existing iv tbe district is to be reduced. — Lcsb by 59 to 3, Hud the claupe passed without amendment. Clamse 4, poll to be taken on tho d»y of the general election.— Mr Thompson stid the lust vote on this poiut was ouly carriud by the cast- | Ing vote of the chairman, and he therefore pro-

posed that this clause be struck out. — The Hon. Mr Seddon thought, as the House had alroady expre-sed its opinion on this matter, it should be left as it was.— Mr Thompson's amendtueot was carried by 31 to 30, aud the clause struck out. The following i^the division list : — Ayes (31) -Mostrs Allen, Buddo, Buick, Camcro^s, Carnell, Crowlher, D.incan, Duthio, Flatman, Fiaser, Hall-Jonc^, G. \h\U-hiion, J. W. Kelly, \V. Kelly. Lang, Maslin, Massey. M'Nub, Montg.imery, O'lU'K*n, Parata, Tinkerton, G. W. Kmsdl, \V. K. Rust-ell, 10. M. Smith, G. J. Smith, Tttimev, T. Thompson. [Only 28 mine* were teli'Rr.iphel ] Nor:s (SO). — Messrs Bell, Button. Oadman, Can oil, Collins, Karushaw, Green, Hill, ll^rrii, j llcke, IloiriJ, W. Tlutchison, .lo.sce, T Mnckeiuie, Mackintosh, M'Gowan, M.'Guiro, J. M'Keazie, I It. M'Kcn/.ie, M'Lachl.-in, Millar, Mills, Morrison, Newman, Piraui, Reeves, Sounders, Seddou, Stevens, Slout. i Tmhs.— Ayes: WiPerc. Noes : Meredith. j Clause 6, number of proposals to be voted. — Mr EAUNbHAW moved an amendment that each voter shall be entitled to .vote for ono, two, or I three of tho proposals, instead of one or two — The Hon. Seddon hoped t'ae House would stick to the bill, and be held that voters had a very wide rar>go. — Sir 11. Stout supported the amendment, »nd ?a'd if the cumulative voto < were not allowed, he would ask all thofw: who supported temperance to vo'e for the Chairman leaving the chair. If ihe bill wer.» pa»se«l as it stood -it would be entirely in favour of the liquor party.^ He hoped the House would accept Mr Earssbaw's amendment. — The Hon. Mr Seddon said thie was a democracy, and the temperance members would support the bill as long as they got what they wanted. — (Sir R. Stout : " Certainly.") Then Sir It Stout would Had that a majority would not voto for the Chairmen leaving the chair. He considered two votes were sufficient. Voters could voto for local prohibition and national prohibition, or reduction and licenses to rcmaiu as they were. —Mr Q. J. Sjuth said that they only wanted a bill to give them & fair fight, co that people could express their opinions on the question. He held that the bill as at present drawn was infiuitively worse than the prosent law, and he haptd tbe amendment would be carried. — Mr Bell said the bill as it at present stood was a brewers' bill, ai)d that being co Mr Seddon could not expect tbe Temperance party to support him — Dr Newman said ir the Premier would not giva way and ! accept an amendment of this kind, the bill would be infinitely worse than that of last year. If (he bill passed as it stocd it would by no means Rt-ltlo the question.— Mr G. W. Russell said that unless three votes were given people could not vote ou the whole question. — Hon. Mr Seddon resented Mr Bell's- statement that this biM was a brewers' and publicans' measure. He asserted that this bill gave more t1)t 1 ) temperance reformers than any measure intcodnced in any Legislature in the world. If the House accepted this amendment it would be. Lis duty to go on with the bill, but if the Temperance party did not get all they" wanted they wi*htd to see the bill killed. — Captain Russell tbought this diecustaon snowed how difficult it would be for an ordinary vctor to decide what he was to vote for. He suggested that the first thing to be done was to take a straight vote of the people for prohibition or no prohibitioD. They could then take a vote for reduction of licenses, but the two should not be mixed up together, as it would only lead to confusion. — Mr Lawry denied that this was a br«wers' bill, and said if it were bo ho should support it and not oppose it. — Mr Crowthku could not support the amendment. The bill, it seemed to him, meant tint if 4001 persona voted for reduction out of 8000 their reduction would be carried by that one man — Mr Saunders had hitherto voted for thjfi Premiet's bll, but he could not support him over Mr Eirnsbaw's amendment. The Premier should give the people the subjeota to vote on ; but if they gob only one subject it should be for prohibition, which ohou'.d couut for redaction. That set in ftd to him a reasonable way out cf the difficulty. — Mr Allen B>id t>h*t r&thtr than vote for the cumulative vote he should prefer throe subjects as proposed by the amendment. — Mr Earn&haw'e amendment was carried by 40 to 20. Tbe following is the division list :— Ayes (40).— Messrs Allen, Bell, Buddo, Buick, Button, Carncoss, Caniell, Collins, Duthie, Earn-haw, FlatmaD, Fraser, Hall Jones, Ileke, G. HutchisiD, W. Hutchison, Jojce, J. W. Kelly, Lang, T. Mackenzie, Mislin, Mas-sey, M'Guire, M'Nab, Millar, Mitchclson. Montgomery, Morrison, Newman, O'Regan, Pinkerton, Pirani, G. W. Russell, W. R. Russell, SaundtTß, E. M. Smith, G. J. Smith, Stout, Tanner, Wilson. Noks (20).— Messrs Cadman, Carroll, (Jrowtber, Duncin, Green, Harris, LLo'eg, W. Kelly, Lawry, Mackintosh, M'Gowan, J. fii'Kenzie, R. M'Keni 2ie, M'Lachlan, Mills, Parata, Seddon, Stevens, i Willis, T. Thompson. Pairs.— Ayes : Mr Wi Fere. Noes: Mr Meredith. The Hon. Mr Seddon said he should loyally accept the decision just given by the House. Clame 7, provision subject to which poll to be taken. — The Hon. Mr Spddon moved that this clause be sbruck out owing ta the alteration in the previous clause. — Clause struck out. Clause 8, when proposal deemed to ba carried, — Mr Pibani moved, an amendment that no informality in a ballot paper on one issue ohonld invalidate the whole paper.— Hon. Mr Seddon opposed the amendment, which was withdrawn after considerable discussion. — Mr Lawky moved that a three- fifths majority should decide for reduction inetead of an absolute majority, — Lost on the voices. — Mr MovtGGMEnv moved that tbe committee, at its flr.->t meeting after the licensing poll, shall reduce the licenses by 15 per cent, instead of 5. — Hon. Mr Seddon opposed the amendment, aj^l said it would defeat the object iv view. — Sir R Stout suggest* d, ai a fair compromise, that I 10 be the minimum instead of 5.— Mr M« nlgomcry's amendment wan carried by 31 to 't'Jj. — The Hon Mr Skddon Nairi if If) whb curried ho should drop the bill --Mr Mo.vmkimi uv withdrew the 15 in favour of 10, which wan a^rrnl to. — Mr Hall moved that the maximum bf. HO per cnt. reduction instead of 25. — Lost on tho voices. — Mr Montgomery moved to add a proviso tbat where reduction has been carried the number of licmses should be reduced by one at least — Carried. — Mr G. J. Smitit moved that in the portion of the clause providing for no license, it should bi a hire majority for prohibition instead of three-fifths. — The Hon; Mr Seddon opposed the amendment. Local prohibition (should be carried by a substantial mtij>>rity, which he believed wrs three-fifths. — Mr R. M'Krsziß move. 1 that progress be reported. — Lost — Mr Smith's amendment tor a bare majority vas lost by 3l to 22. Th» following is the division list: — AM.-(22)-Me«?rs 8011, IJu-Llo. button, far. r>*\\, K.mHu.v, Hitman, Hal 1 Jm.e-, \\". ITutcbi* »n, J. W. Killy, Mse-lin, Mis-cv, M'Nab, MiiUr, Morri'on, Newman, O'Uegan, I'inkritoJi, I'iiani, Situnderj, G. J. Sniilb, Stout, Tanner. Noi:s (31) — Alessrs Allen, Uuitk, Cadman, C.irnciois, Carroll, CuJlms. (Jiowther, Duu.-au, Duthie, Frasor, Grden, Hall, Harris. Hogg, G. Hutchison, \V. Kelly, Lang, Lawry, T. Mackenzie, M'G wan, J. M'Kenzie, M'Lachlan, Mills, Mit-'helson, Montjomeiy, Keeve?, U. vY. Resell, Siddon, E. M. Smith, Willis, T. Thonipson. Pairs —Ayes : Messrs Wi Pero and To Ao. Noes : Messrs Meredith and l'arata.

Clause 11, when the proposal that no lioonses be granted iv the* colony is deemed carried.— Sir R Stout moved that three-fifths majority for colonial prohibition be struck out in favour of a bare majority. — Tha Hon. Mr Seddon said the Houao had a' ready affirmed a three-fifths majority for local prohibition, and if Sir R. Scout's propofal w.»s carried i; would mean a loss to the colony of half a m'.Hiou a year.— Sir R. Stout s»id, ou the contrary, ib would mean a gain to the colony of two millions a year. — Sir 11. Stout's amendment for a bura majority was lost by 30 to 2L, &ud the clause c*rrled. Mr Durum moved to report progress.—Carried by 31 to 20. THE SHEEP TAX. A deputation from tho Otngo A. and P. Society waited on tho Minister for L»nd« this morning with reference to the collection of the sheep tax. The Minister promised that the t»x would not be collected from those who occupied country s>u\cted. by the heavy snow until the actual loßaes are asc-rtaiued at shearing, and tbat notice would be issued to others that the tax would have to be paid at once, but as there had betn some nvseoaception about the date of cjl'c3tion, ft- 03 would not be enforced if paid at once. The Minister further said that the quc-t on of collecting the tax iv the future was under his consideration, and that he had no strong opinion as to whether the date for the collection of the sheep rates should be Ssptsmber or some date after shearing, but would commuuica'e his decision later on. The deputation consisted of the Hon. T. Fergus acd Mr James Smilh (vice-preMdent).