A CHAT WITH SIR JULIUS VOGEL.

Otago Witness, Issue 2055, 13 July 1893, Page 5

A CHAT WITH SIR JULIUS VOGEL.

(Fhom Oob Special Oohbespondbnt.) 30 and 31 Fleet street, London, May 26. A day or two ago I had a long and rather interesting chat with Sir Julius Vogel in his pleasant room at Chelsea. '' He was looking particularly well, ami certainly younger than when he was last in New Zealand. It struck me that his. eyes had even more' of that peculiarly alert quickness of observation that formerly characterised - them, and which so curiously contradicts the otherwise heavy and impassive style' of his face. . He talked with all his accustomed shrewdness and close observation of passing events. ' '• " Our- conversation naturally turned in the direction of the recent change in the New Zealand Premiership. In view of a current rumour that Sir' Julius himself might feel disposed once more -to re-enter New Zealand politics now that there seemed a demand for a new leader, I masked him whether there was' any likelihood .of his taking 'such a step. He replied that so far as he could judge there was no probability whatever of his returning to New Zealand. , • After asking me what I ' thought _ of the present Government's prospects in this year's general election^ he remarked that it would be contrary to -all experience if a Ministry that had been 1 in office- during the whole life of a Parliament were to come back again after a general election. " People seem to like. a change," he remarked, possibly remembering his own experience in 1887, ", and when they have had one set of men in office for a whole Parliament, they think it is time to try another lot, on the chance that something more may be' got out of the new ones'; they consider they know all that the old set can do." He remarked, however, that Mr Seddon was a very clever man, and the electors' might think he ought to have the chance 'of showing' what he could do as Premier. Sir -Julius also expresfed a high opinion of Mr W. P. Reeves's ability, and said he himself was one of -the first to discover Mr Cadman's capacity ■in public' affairs, adding that he gre&tly desired to have Mr Cadman in the last Minfttry be formed in New Zealand. He greatly lamented Mr Ballanoe's death, Baying that only those who had Been closely associated with the late Premier could* fully appreciate his capacity and * the! - many excellencies of his personal character. His loss was a very severe blow to his party. ', - Sir Julius Vogel dwelt strongly oh the desirableness- of 1 completing the trunk -lines' of railway in New Zealand.,' That, he thought, was so obvious* that fie could not understand there being two opinions on the subject. "Had my original scheme: been carried out," he said, " the New Zealand railways would now be aiding the revenue., instead of requiring assistance from it to pay interest on their cobt. I intended that the properties benefited should pay for the benefits, but the influence was too strong, and so the colony lostall that advantage and private owners obtained it. Could I have carried that the colony would have been in a very different position." ' As to the route of the North Island Trunk line, he observed :—'.'- 1 hid that definitely settled when I was' in office in 1884. What is really wanted is a central through line with a Taranaki connection at some convenient point. There must be the Auckland-Taranaki connection,, but that 'can be. accomplished without altering the route of the trunk .line. It is a great pity," he went on to 'say, "that the line was not, finished long ago. The Aucklanders are energetic, enterprising people, and would have done wonders in and opening up that' Taranaki Country if they had only had the chance." ,"'•"- - ' - . As to the Midland line, Sir Julius held that the Government coald not afford to abandon the Nelson -connection, and -were bound in honour and good faith to stand by it. If the company refused to. carry it out, then the Government, if they ha;d any ; plnck, should do it and recover from the> company. It was all nonsense for. the company to come now and plead to be relieved of that part of the contract. They undertook it with their 'eyes open, and should be compiled to carry it out. "If I were at the head of affairs/ said Sir Julius, •• I wouldtake good care that this was done." It was a great mißtoke; he held, raising leans in the colony. By doing so yon simply diverted money from its circulation' in the regular channels of commerce instead of -bringing in new capital. When Sir -Harry Atkinson tried a few^yeara; ago/to borrow £250,000 in the colony, he was only able to get the money by borrowing the savings bank deposits. Mr jtallance seemed .to have a,' somewhat senti- . mental idea about weaning the New Zealand people - from servile, dependence on foreign money lenders'. That was all very well as a * bit of sentiment, and no doubt it might be a good move politically, but there was not much jn jt really. It might even become dangerous, as it had been proved to be ip Australia. One of tho various 'causes of the, recent bank disasters was tHe. practice of rising municipal and other loans in the colony, and so causing the withdrawal of funds .which otherwise would have been employed in the ordinary course of business. -...'", In further reference to the bank^ troubles, Bir Julius took rather a gloomy view of the reconstruction prospects in some of the cases. " Why should the .depositors consent to become shareholders in institutions which have already shewn themselves shaky?'' he' asked ; "and why should they agree to wait for their money an indefinite period P . Still more, why should they saddle themselves with a liability in case of future liquidation to the extent of the value of their shares ? It is most unlikely, I should think, that they .would do so. The truth is that the securities in some cases will not bear looking into. They consist largely of discounted billis. That is, why the sound banks did not come to the rescue of the weak ones. They were willing enough to render assistance, bnt when they came to inspect the security it would not do, being chiefly discounted bills." Sir Julius added that it was a great mistake for the New South Wales. Government to have declared that it would stand by, the' Bank of New South Wales. That ' ;t)ank . was too strong to need any such assurance,' ..and the declaration was ' only calculated ' to suggest doubt where nope existed,, or ' need exist, He remarked that . New- Zealand stock had not been affected in value by the Australian crisis. They had risen considerably only that very day, a.nd.stood'higher than any other Australasian stocks. It was very desirable that the various municipal stocba'of . New Zealand should be consolidated and inscribed. He ' had just taken ateps to bring .this point under the notice of the bodies interested. He found that at present the colonial municipalities and harbour boards were at a great disadvantage throngh the defective forms in which their loans are issued to the public, owing partly to the neglect, of waiting facilities (hitherto ignored) and partly to the existence of legal disabilities which . require to be removed. "When I succeeded in getting the Colonial Stock Act passed through the Imperial Parliament in 1877," he said,," I was warned that if Jt djd not pass then there, woijld pa no other

ohance, as the opposition of the British municipal bodies was so powerful, and increasing. They disliked it because they saw it would make colonial loans as good in the Home market as their own. However, it did pass, and since then ' colonial loans to the amount of about £150,000,000 have been inscribed under its provisions. There is I no valid reason why all the New Zealand mumI cipal and harbour loans should not enjoy the advantages whioh that act affords. They are now in the same position as were those of colonial Governmenta before any act was passed. The English investor requires that his investment should be registered for greater security, should be transferable in any amount, and should be dealt in free of stamp duty. As consols, India stocks, colonial Government stocks, and British municipal stocks are transferred free of stamp duty, a buyer naturally resents this impost in the case of similar ■-, securities, and so their value is prejudiced in the market. No attempt seems as yet to have been made to compound the stamp duty on the New Zealand municipal loans, and at present the investors in those loans have not so satisfactory a legal status in respect of registration as those who invest in stocks inscribed under the act. I find, however, that the Commissioners of Inland Revenue are fully prepared to consider any application on behalf of colonial corporations for permission to compound the stamp duty by payment of 6d per cent, half-yearly on the total value of the stock dealt with. Thus there is nothing to prevent any colonial municipality or Harbour Board from issuing a loan in tho form of registered stock, andcommuting the stamp duty, so soon as the needful power shall have been given by colonial legislation. This, therefore, ought to be secured without loss of time, so that New Zealand local bodies when borrowing may be in a position to accord a better legal status to their stockholders, secure greater prestige for their loans, and be able to contract for registration on the most favourable terms in consequence of the protective pro- ■ visions afforded to registrars, and thus give a higher market value to their stock. _ I am sending a circular letter to all the colonial corporations whose loans are quoted on the Stock Exchange explaining the matter." Sir Julius Vogel went on to explain that three forms of loan should be open to colonial corporations as to' colonial Governments — viz., debentures subject to full stamp duty, registered stock transferable by deed, and registered stock transferable only by signature in the register. The fi»t is the only form yet adopted by New Zealand bodies ; the second has been used only by the Canadian City of Montreal ; the third is not yet available to colonial corporations, and therefore Sir Julius urges that the New Zealand lecal bodies should at once move in the direction of seeking legislation.