N.Z. PARLIAMENT.

Otago Witness, Issue 2008, 18 August 1892, Page 16

N.Z. PARLIAMENT.

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 10. **■• rr« n<lft raet at 2.30 p.m. TITK LAND 81T.T,. The Hon. G. 1?. RICHARDSON resumed the debate on the Land Bill. He said a fresh turn had been given to tho debate by the Premier dpcidiDg to accept Mr Bruce's amendment as a lio-confidcuce motion. The Premier might well, in his opinion, have accepted that amendment in a non-party spirit,as the Minister for Lands had stated the Government were not averse to freehold. The MinihU-r for Public Works ha:l also emphasised that, and yet the Premier had stated the Government regaided the amendment as one of no-confidence. He did not agree with the Premier that in committee was the proper time to move Die amendment, and contended that the second reading of the bill undoubtedly asserted its principle. If the leader of the Opposition had moved the amendment the Premier might wc)l be justified in treatingitin a party spirit, but as it was moved by an Opposition member viio we.s known to be not an extreme party man it had an altogether different aspect. He congratulated Mr M'Kenzie on having delivered a speech which was Tiot a written one, but found fault with the Minister -for not lajingon the tab!-.-the return he had quoted from last night. Mr x M'Kenzie had told them that there had been only 4£ per cent, of tiausfers, whereas in the Crown lands rerort the number of transfers vras Btated-«t 10 per cent. He quoted from returns to show that the mimbw" of selectors la B t year was ouly 1903 instead of 3305 as claimed by the Blinister last night, lie also showed that the 1741 small farm selectors were iv reality reduced to only 13, and yet thu Minister asked the House to accept his figures as correct. They had Ministers crowing all over t,ho country in the recess about the success of special settlement.*, and yet the Crown lands rcpoit stated that settlement is being starved for want of roading. Not one word was mentioned in the official reports as to the necessity fur an alteration in the law. All that was pointed out was the deMiubilify of Opening up ro.ids to land for settlement. A great deal iv the. present bill was proposed to be done by regulation?, and far too much was left to Ministerial patronage _ instead of to ordii.ary departmental administration. As to the proposal for the election of land boards, all lie -vonld say about that Rt present was th'it these boar-Is required men with special qualifications, who were not likely to be secured by the elective principle. By the present bill c.\sh lands were no lonj' j r cash lands only on certain condition?, which he thought) would prevent the cash j-yi>tem being very largely availed of. As far" as he was concerned ho would prefer to see no cash lands, but the Treasury vras inteivstcel in this matter, and his opinion was that sufficient revenue should be derived from our lands to pay the annual cost of the department. He had no objiction to the perpetual lease proposed by the Minister, as long as thc-re was an optional choice of tenure, including cash. There should be two systems of perpetual lease, one with the right to acquire the ficchold, ancl rho othpr without that right. That would in his opinion meet the requirements of tbe country seUleis. A great blot in the bill was tho provision for special settlements. He referred to the position of s-ever.d of these settlements, nnd .••.tid that oMt of the whole of t,ho«e in the colony, ulxmt ono-lifth of the original setllers now remained. There never had been under any ej stem in the colony so much speculation (s under the special seltlemi nt tyfrtem. He pointed out that tho bill contained the fear/re r.bsurd provision for small grazing runs as last year's measure, and th>it no' matter how small n run mhjht be a settler wasdebarnd from taking' up another, which was a seriouf. check to pestoral enterprise. He did not regard the amendment as one of no-coufidence in the Government, but he- thought it very unwiso topltrr'tho ] a w as related to freehold, for people would havo a freehold. Mr LAWEY sail he had never been wedded to any particular tenure cf land. He had stated to his ccnstitueijts that ho should fj.\ our three systems if land tenure— namely, pvrchape for cash, p' ri ctuaHeose with th- tixht of freehold, nud pc-pet ;:■) Jeage without free! old. He had been prrpawd to oppose the pesent Land Bill, but the speech of th:> ?.tiiiis'er for Lands Ja.sl night fully Fat^fie.l Lirn. "Wh .t did ib mrtlcr to tbe House what the Prcn.icr said in a vainrhlet'he hud wiiten same j ear? r.go, sc long" as the .Land Bill olli.v cd people to take up the freehold at tomo futiuc time. That wqiild satisfy pec pie. If Mr M'Keizio had -declared he would stick to his bill as brought down he should have voted agaln-.tit, but after Lie explanation with respect to the freehold, le was prepared to support the Government and vote against Mr Bruce's amendment. Ca.tain RUSSI2LL said Mr Lawry had appa ently forgotten the old saying, that speech was givci us !o conceal our thoughts, anel thnt tvas the case iv the yr >sent bill. He strongly condemned the proposal n adc by the Minister for Lands lafct night; to grant perpetual lease in perpetuity at 4 per cent. That prop »<U struck at all classes of the community, anl such a clause would govern entiiely the land tenure in the future. It was tho moi-t iniquitous clause that could possibly Im introduced info ILe Land Bill, and was a direct fraud on every por-'on iv the colouv. Th-v were told that public works were to ha made out of revenue, Lut where was th-it revenue to corns from? "U"hy, every man, ■woman, and chi;d was to be taxed to enable roads to be opened up on land held by bupporters of the present Government. Tho distinct object of this bill was to place enormous power in the hands of the Minister for Lands, which would be most detrimental to tho people who paid customs duties. It was such a monstrous proposition that the bill should not be allowed to proceed further till this proposal was telegraphed from one end- of tho coiouy to tho ether, so that people may know what was contemplated by the Government. The Premier had stated last night that there should be no cor.Q?cation of land, but Mr Ballance had distinctly decbred himself repeatedly in favour of land nationalisation. He (Captain Russell) thought land nationalisation uould be injurious to the colony, and jf Mr Bailanco thought ib was useJess to try to bring it about why had he taken o-.c-iy pos'-ible opportunity of advocating it and thus securing a little kudos. Mr M-Kenzio had told them a_ fortnight ago that he had tcid the special FptUemeut selectors they should never gut i.i:c-u- fiecLo'.d, ftud yet now he was apparently.Tilling to allow everybody to obtain a freehold. What v>as the ciu=e of the ch~vgr? His-'opluion v.t.s that the G-ivern-i::n:t l>ad treated Mr Biucs's Pinoiidment us o:k: _of tc-roj!!i._]cnco, Lorn me they vier<> afi.-iid to r.]! v «,- their supporters to express f>n );.;:.>( -.t opinion m this freehold question, jtu.l wn-i--.I !•_ i •;•-'_■ than ii.to tbe Government 1..1 by & t;.^t IVir o-n r.nv:ctier.s. WhlM ht. .-;.;.:•.-. i :1 <;! ;i }.- r.-i-hn! u-::'c to a < .f.tiu c;.lei:f, L-j iliua^Lt no l.:ud bill % ,\«u d quod ouo

that did not provide for the sale for cash of a large quantity of laml. They were told the policy of the Government was to be to construct roads and bridges out of revenue. His opinion was thai? land might be cut up in sufficient areas on perpetual lease for poorer people, and that richer people should pay in cash sufficient money to pay for tbe roads and bridges required to open up laud. That would be a much better plan than to tax the whole of the people for the benefit of a particular class.

Mr SCOBIE MACKENZIE thought the Minister for Lauds might fairly be cougratulated upon the manner in which he introduced the bill List night. His toae was reasonable, and he only wished the Government were disposed to be r.s conciliator}'. That hon. gentleman had evidently adopted a policy of self-reliance. As to Mr Seddon's speech last night, he might have taken a lesson from the speech of Mr Guo. Hutchison who preceded him, and whose remarks wore delivered in a quiet and conciliatory tone. Mr Seddon had rpterred to mittertS in connection with the Rangitilu-i election, and accused the member for Waitotara Of taking part therein. He (Mr Mackenzie) who was in the di.-triet at the time of tho pulling wouki s iy Mr George Hutchison was only on the scene for a couple of hours, an 1 had nothing whatever to do with the posters re the Land "Bill, and did not interfere in the election whatever. The electors of Rangilikei had been grossly deceived by the Government as to the provisions of the Land Bill in ansivor to a telegram sent to them by a leading settler nfter tho posters had been distributed. Thisßettleraskedvvhetherit was true the riyht to a freehold had been withdrawn from 6mall furm associations. Tho answer received he ( Jlr Mackenzie) contended completely misled the electors, it being to the effect that the bill provided for the freehold. From what had happened since tho last election he lrul no doubt if another election were to take place for liangitikei at preseub tho result would be much different to that of the last— the Opposition candidate would have a much larger majority. He was surprised that the Premier had taken the amendment as a motion of no-confidence. In his opinion it simply took the form of ;vu instruction to tho committee. As to Mr Itolleston's attitude in regird tcf the bill he contended the leader of the Opposition was quito^ consistent in his action, and he did not anticipate that Mr Brace's amendment would he treated as a motion of no-confidence. He pointed out that Miuibfcers hid often expressed themselves averse to freehold tenure, and quoted from recent speeches of tha Premier and some other Ministers in support of this assertion. Yot last night Mr Batlanco denied that he was not in favour of tho nationalisation of laud. The amendment was quite right in re fcrrin,j to the Lind Bili as being inimical to tho freehold tenure, and uwm'ws on the Government side of the House could not fail to recognise this. He combated the statement I hat th", deferrcd-p'synicnt system was dying out, and quoted figures to show that the system was f-.till popular with would-'je settlers. The Government, however, under the gime that the system was djing out, proposed to abolish it. But whit was the re.tl reason for the abolition ? It was simply that the Government knew the deferred-payment system was an easy method of acquiring the freehold, and thpy wero therefore determined to sweep it away. As to the perpetual lease system, the Government proposal was devoid of all principles. Dummyism, he knew, was still carred on, but in its present form it was nothing more nor less than a child of the ballot system. The Miuibtcr for Laudo was leading the House and country astray in contending that the dummyism of the present day was duo to tho aggregation of large dates. It was not duo to that, but to tho state of the existing law, pud ho hoped th'i Minister would have spmo alteration effected before tho session closed. In the action they had Liken with regard to Blr Bruce's amendment the Government had done their own supporters a great wrong. They had made the question one of a party character, thus forcing some of their supporters to vote with them ogam.it the amendment when they were really strongly in favour of i!;, and those members would have to answer to their constituents for their action.

Mr MACKINTOSH maintained that freehold tenure was in no danger from the Govcrimitsat, end he suppoitcd the bill. Theperpetuallea.se system, he eonsuleied, was the best ever introduced into the colony.

Tho Hon. Mr KOLLE3TON said since he "poke on tho hecond leading the debate h;ul iissumwl a different phase j:i consequence of the amendment moved by Mr 8.-uce. - 110 thought the Government had dune tho country and their party a great wrong in treating this" amendment as a vote of no-confidence. The Minbtcr for Lands in a temperate speech had assured thi* House that he was not desirous of doing awyy with the freehold. The Minister for Lauds wns very firm hi the Waste LanJs Committee last hestion, and he (Mr Bolleston) remembered that he was unable to get a sinde amendment carried in that committee. He thought it not unreasonable to get an expression of opinion on this most important question. He referred to iho utlorau':ts of the Premier on one occasion wh n n ho was asked whether he was in favour of the nationalisation of the land, and he answered he was in favour of it, nnd would do his utmost in th «t direction. That being the ca-^e, h-3 was sin-prissd to hear members who supported tho fivchcld say that the amendment was not uecp.-nai-y. He of course would support the amondaifii't, and he hoped when the divir.'on bell r.v.rj membeis woul.l vote on it free from party li.^! A-s to the bill itself, ho did not like it from beginning to end. It was cumbersome isi detail, tail of blunders, and at the present time was not in any sense a liberal measure. He said he had been told an hour ago that a number of men on the East Coast lived on gambling in laud, and this was done under the Minister's regulations, which encouraged gambling. Could anyone say that wag genuine settlement ? It was perfectly hopeless to get land under the regulations of tho present system. The Premier htd stated at some banquet that he (Mr Kolleston) had turned his back on the perpetual lease system; but he asserted that the perpetual lease wbich'he had established had been killed by such proposals as were to be found in the present bill. He regretted the position taken up by the Government on this bill. They were lowering the position of certain members, who, whilst stating they did not approve of the bill, still felt compelled to vote against the amendment in consequence of the Government m.-ikincf it a party question. The amendment was then put and lost by 39 to 21. J The following is the division list : — ion mr nnuci:'s AMn\DMnxT(23). Me*sr=Ar.-i Messrs M. J. S. Maci" Kr ,v k-mzie Buciv.nan J. Mills J.U'-Uaiid Mitehel.son J'ullnu Rhodes i;-* 11 .. Klehar.lson Jln:s!:n P.olUMon Hiii't.xs Jir.-^cli <;. 1',.-,!.;-. i- on Y.!lc»;iiie L.i-j Mi 1.. n i. Ji.n.ucu^.ie Wii<iht.

AGAINST MR BRUCK'S AMENDMENT (39,). Messrs Ballance Messrs J. M'Kenzie Buick Meredith Caiman O. 11. Mills Carncross O'Conor Carroll Parata 1 'uncan Pinkerton Kirushaw R. 11. J. Reeves Fish AY. P. Reeves l'Vaser S<ndfoid Guinness Kaundors Hall-Jones Sod-lon Hog^ Rhera Hou^on ¥„ M. Smith W. Hutchison W. O. Smith Joyce Tanner J. Kolly Taylor Lawry 11. Thompson M.i-kintosh 'J. Thompson M'Guiro Ward. M'Lcan PAIRS.— YOU THE AMENDMENT. Messrs Taijnia Messrs Fergus Sw.ui Fisher Newman Moore. PAIRS.— -AGAINST THK AMENDMENT. Messrs Kapa Messrs Bl ike Roes W. Kelly U.nvson Palmer. On tyie motion that the bill bo read a second time. The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said that tho Government had been twitted with making this a party question, but the fact was the Oppobition hiit frequently stated th-it the enpporters of freehold wero iv a ' majority in tho House, and the Government hael therefore determined to give them an opportunity of proving that, with the result of tho division just taken. He compared Mr Itollpstou's speech just delivered with his speech of last night, and said that while ho hid supported the bill List night, ho had to-night said it was everything that was bad. — (Mr Kolleston: "No.") Well, he had not much to say in favour of it. Mr Rolleston had a great eleal to say against special settlements, but ho asserted there was no such lottery as that hon. gcntlerenn had spoken of, ns those settlers got their land direct from the Crown and thero were no middlo men employed. They were told there was no freehold in tho bill, and yet it provided that anyone could obtain land with the option of tenure and the right to obtain the freehold if he desired it. He warmly defended tho ballot system, but said if any better system were showir to him he should bo ouly too glad to accept ib. As to what had been said about local government, he hold that it was too much to attempt local government legislation tliis session. Lot th>'.m get rid of the Land Bill and other business on th»s order paper, and next yen- things would probably bo. in a position to tike up the question of local government. A great deal of legislation in land must be done by Order-in-Council, although that had been so much objected to by several members. He retVrred to several of Mr Richardson's statements that afternoon, and again reiterated that he had not claimed to have pub 1741 people on the laud during the year. What he had stated was that land had been allotted to 1741 people during that period, bub ib had been impossible for some of them to go on the land owing to the late period at which they had taken up the land. The Government wero twitted with having divided opinions on tho Land Bill, but ho denied that, and said ib was only the Oi>posibion who were divided on that point. Mr Scobie Mackenzie had congratulated him on having at List delivered a speech that was not written, hut he pointed out that no member in i tho House delivered more written speeches than the member for Mount Ida, who continually made extracts from uewspapors that supported his parly. Ho combated, at some length several statements made by the member for Mount Ida, and said that any person could gob his Crown grant within six months provided he made the necessary improvements, instead of sc^ven years as stated by Mr Mackenzie. Ho defended the land policy of the Government, and especially tho special settlement S3 r stem. He admitted that sentiment had a great deal to do with land tenure, but he, thoughb a lease out of which money could be made was much preferable to a freehold, out of which no money could be made. 110 would ask Mr Hutchison whether he coulel prepare a clause to prevent large estates and give the freehold at the same time. He hoped when the bill came hick from the Waste Lands Commibbee is yi ould be somewhat improved, and ho woulel bo prepared to accept any reasonable amenelments in it. There were, however, certain provisions in tho bill which they must adhere to. The bill was read a second time on tho voices. LAW PRACTITIONERS ACT. A bill amending this act has been introduced by Mr George Fit-her. That acb provides that any person who has passed the examination prescribed for solicitors iv general knowledge y,r law, and has not been admitted, shall bo detX°d to have passed under that act. Mr Fisher recognises that many young men when thab provision became law, lost sight of it, and that ib would be very difficulb for bhem to pass tho examination now. He wauts the provision extended so as to meet such cases. It is with this object thab he has introduced thi3 bill. PETITIONS. With regard to the petition of W. N. Ch^iu'oor?, Dunedin, who complained that after having b'jen for 12 years in tho service of tho Railway dopartmouc ho was discharged without cjpipe.ibition, the Public Petitions C>mmilioo havo no recommendation to make Thcra is no recommendation from the commicteo upon a similar petition from Robert Cfuickshar.k, Dunedin. Reporting on the pst:tion of Geo-ge Grignr, Danedin, who complained thab owing to a redaction of the stafl he was discharged from a position as carriage painter and varnisher in the Hillsido Railway Workshops, tho Petitions Committee recommend thab he hhnuld be offered a place in the Railway Workshops when opportunity occurs. ' EIGHT HOURS BILL.

The Labour Bills Committee recommended that 3lr W. Hutchison's* Eight Hours Bill should b3 a'lrved to proceed, bub they have amended ib go ns to include millers amongst tho workmen affected by the bill, aud to exempt all agricultural an'] pastoral labourers from ibh provisions. Tho clause declaring that workmen shall not be employed fe>r more than eight hours consecutively wherever other workmen are a\\«:labl« is t-truck out, but it is insisted that any work exttnding beyond eight hours shall bo specially paid for. A clause which provide i that no child under 13 years of age should be employed for hire aud th.il no one under 18 years of svje should be required to work for more than fivo hours a day is struck out. MR GLADSTONE'S RETURN TO POWER.

The cablegram from Sir Cfoorgii Groy and other members of the Legislature to Mr Gladstone was despatched this morning. It contains about 3d signatured.

CATLIN'S RIVER RAILWAY,

A deputation of members, consisting of Messrs Thomas Mackenzie, Pm'turion, Earnshaw, James Alien, and W. Hutchison, waited upon tha Miu v t'T for 3'ublij Wo: Kb thin morning with a view of urging on the LUtiin'o

River railway to some point of usefulness. Mr Thomas Mackenzie, in introducing the deputation, said that some L 70.000 had been spent upon the work. All the heavy cutting 3 had been finished, the tunnel was cut through, and a comparatively small outlay would bring all that work and expenditure into utility. The district was a largo ono, and all tho elements were there, when communication was established, to mako a most successful settlement. There were some hundreds of thousands of acres of Crown lands there. At present the nearest railway station to Catlins was Glenomaru, some eight miles away and separated by a high range. That range had been tunnelled, and the line fiuished to within three and a-half miles, and partially finished to within two miles of the terminus. MrPinkerlon agreed that some work should be done to make the outlay of use to tho settlers, and bring iv a profit upon the money already spent. Mr Allen said ib did Beem unwise nob to do something to this important work. He was aware that a large expenditure had taken place, aud that very little money would now bring the line to tho centre of settlement. He would urge the Minister to do what he could for tho district. Tho Minister in replj ing, said it was purely a matter of pouuds shillings anel peuoo. The ! people of Otago seemed agreed that tho Otago Central was the work which should be gone on with, and that the Government _ should concentrate their efforts on that line. Would the deputation suggest that a portion of Otago Central money should go_ to the Catlins ? The position of tho present railway station at Glenomaru secured all the trade of tho elistrict, aud by taking the lino further ha did nob think much increase in traffic would ensue. Mr Mackenzie interrupted by saying that tho Minister did not quite understand the position. The traffic was nob all coming to Glenomaru from Catlins. Vessels brought aud took away cargo. The long journey over the high hill stopped traffic to tho railway. Traffic would also largely increase were tho line taken on. Timber and posts would be cut anel sent out to the central districts. Mr Seddon said ho would make full inquiries into the question and probable traffic, aud if it wero such a3 would warrant further expenditure he would favourably consider the question. Mr Mackenzie felt confident that if ihfi Minister's action rogarding placing a sufficient sum upon the Estimates were based upon the chanco of prospective results the voto was in effect promised. Mr Seddon asked whether Mr Pinkerton or Mr Allen or Mr Earnshaw would b.3 prepared to agree 'that monoy should bo diverted from the Otago Central line for this purpose. Mr Alien (amid laughter) protested against tho Minister asking them unpleasant questions. Ho urged that the lino should be carried as far, at anyrato, as Hunt's road, which would enable it to give good returns. Mr Soddon promised to mako inquiries as to the cost of the proposed extension, anel as to probable traffic resulting, and when he had obtained such information to give the matter his most careful consideration. The deputation thankcel him and withdrew. A SCENE. After the elivision on Mr Bruce's amendment to-night, and when tho Minister for Lands was replying, there was almost a scene. A controversy aroso between the Minister and Mr Scobie Mackenzie, as a result of which the former told the member for Mount Ida that he was no gentleman. Captain Russell moved that the words bo taken down, and j insisted even after the Minister had withdrawn them, until ho had cxpressod his regret. Then the breeze ended, after ib had more than once threatened to develop into a gale. JOTTINGS. It is rumoureel that Lord Glasgow has cableel Homo to the Secretary of State requesting instructions and advico touching his presont relations with Ministers. In the division to-night Sir George Grey neither voted nor paired. Every other member voted or paired. The amenelment was lost by a majority of 18. THURSDAY, AUGUST 11. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. In the Legislative Council to-day the Weslcyan Methodist Church Property Trust Bill passed its second reading after some debate. The Friendly Societies Act Amendment Bill, to give better security to members of juvenile lodges, also passed its second reading. Tho Land Transfer Bill and some others were reported from committee. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. In tho House of Representatives to-day private members had an opportunity of pushing forward some of their measures. Mr Fish secured tho passing of his Ocean Beach Public Domain Bill after some opposition. In the evening a bill to endow museums at Napier and Wanganui excited some discussion, and ; despite tho fact of the Premier's advocacy Mr Fish's motion to throw out the measure was carried by 29 to 24. The Eight Hours Bill was then considered in committee auel amended. The Inebriates' Home Bill, though opposed, passed its second reading without division. IJCPLIES TO QUnSTIONS. Replying to Mr C. H. Mills, Tho Hon. R. J. SEDDON said ha should consult the Railway Commissioners as to the advisability of providing a suitable medal or certificate for engineers who have run locomotives on the railways for 10 years consecutively without accident. Iteplving to Mr T. fclackenzio (Clutha),* The Hon. Mr BEODON said he should give full consideration to the question of placing a sum on the Estimates to finish tho Catlins railway to Owuke Flat. Replying to Mr G. Hutchison, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said the Government had no intentions v/ith regard to the purchase of the Wellington-Manawatu railway. Replying to Mr G. Hutchison, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said the Defence department were selling Martini-Henry rifle ammunition at cost price. They were getting some more ammunition or.t, which they would also dispose of Ft co-;t price, but he could not say what that price would bo till the invoices were rcc&ived.

BILIS PASSED. The Oamaru Racecourse Trustees' Empowering Bill, To Aroha Recreation Ground and Racecourse Bill, Sydenharn Borough Council Empowering Bill, Napier Harbour Board Further Empowering Bill wore committed, reported, read a third time, and passed.

IN-ÜBKIATCS' HOMES.

Mr SPIERA moved the second reading of the Inebriates' Homes Bill, to make better provision for the treatment of inebriates. The bill contained two principles, the first of which was that no person should be sent to gaol for drunkenness ; the other was that it was the duty of the State to regard habitual drunkards as persons suffering from a disease, which no efforts should bo spared to cure. He spoko at some length in support of the bill. Mr FISH deprecated a bill of this kind being brought iv by a private member. It was undoubtedly a question of Government policy, and his opinion was that the House should refuso to keep a quorum together when bills of this kind were brought in by private members. The Government should either say this bill should not be considered by the House, or they ought to have brought it in themselves.

Sir GEORGE GREY supported the bill, and thanked Mr Shera for introducing it. Tho motion was agreed to. °

THE LAND BILL.

I understand that tho Legislative Council will probably accept the Land Bill if the Minister for Lands inserts the amendments he promised the Honse he would make during the debate on tho second reading of tho bill. From the tone of Mr M'Kcuzie's speech last night, however, in which he emphatically stated that the large majority which supporteel tho second reading of the bill would bo a direction to the Wasto Lauds Committee as to the shapo in which tho bill should be brought down again to .the House, it is inferred that the proposed amendments will not be made by the Waste Lands Committee, and if so the Council will almost certainly amend the principal features of tho bill. In that case it is thought Ministers would either have to make fresh appointments to tho Council, appeal to the country, or abandon their land policy. The feeling of some members of tho Council is that a lease in perpetuity at 4 per cent, is better in some respects than a freehold, except as a marketable commodity, as a lease of that kind could not of course be disposed of so readily as a freehold.

LAWYERS AND TRUST' FUNDS.

Notice was given by Sir George Grey to-day that he would inlroeluce a bill to make provision for the better security of moneys depositeel with persons practising tho profession of the law. The measure provides that lawyers shall be required to invest the moneys of their clients in separate accounts. At present such moneys may bo kept in one fund, but when separate they will be safe should tho trustee default. Sir George Grey regards the bill as one of great importance. When ho anuounced it to-day thero were marks of approval.

OTAGO SCHOOL COMMISSIONERS.

The Minister for Lands gave notice to-day of the Otago School Commissioners' Empowering Bill.

THE MIDLAND RAILWAY.

The Midland Railway Company's petition has been remitted by tho Petitions Classification Committee to tho Public Accounts Committee. This has rather takcii the Government by surprise, as Ministers took it for granted that the petition would go before tho M to Z Public Petitions Committee, where it was expected to bo dealt with in a particular way. This mode of treatment is deemed less likely in tho case of the Public Accounts Committee, and tho Minister for Public Works is said to bo greatly exercised over tho matter. I hear thero is a strong probability that the petition will bo remitted to the Government as involving a question of public policy too large fop a committee to deal with. A special select committee is considered the most convenient tribunal of reference for such a question.

PARLIAMENTARY INTONATION.

Mr Fish on several occasions lately, when referring to Mr W. P. Reeves, spoke of him as the Minister for " Labah,?' with a marked intonation on the last syllable. The member for Dunedin-used the phrase in the same manner last night, when tho Speaker at once rose and said he should not allow the hon.- gentleman to refer to the Minister for Labour ia such a way as was likely to cause annoyance to the hon. gentleman. Mr Fish respectfuly submitted that whilst the Speaker was quite right in calling him to order for using certain expressions which he might deem unparliamentary, he surely could not control the intonation of his voice. The Speaker replied that his in the chair was to endeavour, to conduct the business with proper dignity, and to present anything which might lead to elisorder. He had therefore hinted to the hon. niembex the advisability of discontinuing his practice. Mr Fish said that while he would bow to the ruling, he must say that he entirely demurred to it, and would take an early opportunity of calling attention to the matter. It; came up again to-night whilst the Eight Hours Bill was in committee Mr Richardson, when speaking to tho bill, referred to the Minister for "Labah" in almost tho same manner as Mr Fish last night. Mr ltees, the Chairman of Committees, at once rose and said he should not allow tho hon. gentleman to speak, in that way. Mr Fish then rose to order, and said that thi-i opened up a very wide question, and it members' intonation wero to be 'controlled, he did not know where it would stop. I'or instance, some members called the word "auction" "action," and others addressed tho chair as Master Speakher, whilst others again said " Mister Speakhaw," &c. A considerable debate arose and several points of order were raised as to the Chairman's ruling. Mr Kees eventually ruled to the effect that intonations of that kind were used for the purpose of giving offence, and that, although he would be the last person to infringe the privileges of tho House, ib was hi 3 duty as Chairman to soo that no language was used which was likely to cause disputes among&t members. Mr Richardson demurred from tho

Chairman's ruling, but said he should accept it and would not offend in this manner again. The matter then ended.

PETITIONS.

ThePublicPetitions Committee's report on the petition of Mary Ferguson and others, of Kattangata, expresses the opinion that the interests of the beneficiaries in the Kaitaugata relief fund should be clearly protected in the bill now before the House. The Petitions Committee have referred to the Government the petition of A. C. Sauuders and others relative to the Catlin's River railway.

JOTTINGS. Mr Richardson asserts that the Labour Bureau is sending men into remote country districts who are physically incapable of labour and of travelling the rough bush roads of the colony. The Eight Hours Bill, whiph passed the •committee stage to-day, makes* provision for a weekly half-holiday for domestic servants.

FRIDAY, AUGUST 12. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

The Bible-reading in Schools Bill was rejected in the Legislative Council to-day. Several local bills were passed, including one ■dealing with reserves in Waikouaiti. Several amendments in the Oyster Fisheries Bill submitted by message were agreed to. The following is the division list on the Bible-reading in Schools Bill : —

For the Amendment.— Sir G. S. Whitmore, .Messrs Swanson, Pbarazyn, Stevens, Scotland, Dignan, Whytc, Ormond, Johnston, Grace, Pollen, Sir P. A. Buckley. Against.— Messrs Stewart, Baillic, Hart, Barmcoat, Reynolds, Williams, "Wahawaua, Morris, Oliver, M'Lean, Holmes.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

In the House of Representatives to-day the afternoon was taken up with discussions arising out of replies to questions. One of these referred to the Railway Commissioners, and the other was in reference to the delay by Ministers in submitting to the House information asked for. The Industrial Conciliation Bill was read a second time after some debate, and the Local Authorities' Accounts and Audit Bill without discussion. The Minister for Lands succeeded in passing the secoud reading of his Election of Land Boards Bill.

REPLIES TO QUESTIONS

Replying to Mr Hutchison (Waitotara), as to the reason why a return was not furnished showing the number at present employed upon co-operative works, or otherwise, through the labour bureau in the various electoral districts as defined by the Representation Commissioners, to come into force at the next general election, The Hon. Mr REEVES said that wao not the proper time to give the information, but it ■would be furnished when the motion came on for discussion.

Mr HUTCHISON moved the adjournment of the House, and protested against the action of Ministers with respect to affording necessary information to the House. He said they were supposedto have responsible Ministers, but the fact was they were being ruled by an oligarchy of the narrowest kind. Three times he had asked for returns of a most reasonable character, ■which were refused — the Government in fact furnishing whatever information they chose and no other. Ministers seemed to forget they were the paid servants of the public. They had no right to withhold such reasonable information as members asked for.

The Hon. W.- ROLLESTON said it was time the House understood the position it was in. The Opposition had on several occasions endeavoured to obtain important information which had been denied by Ministers. Three different times questions had been asked as to the advice •which had been tendered to the Crown by Ministers on a practical reconstruction of the other Chamber, and the information given them had been of the most meagre character. If the House acted rightly, it would refuse to go on with any business till this information was furnished by the Government. So far as he was concerned, he should not rest till this information was supplied and the House informed of the position it was in. It was peifectly monstrous that the Governor should be advised by Ministers to take important action, and after that advice had been rejected that Ministers should remain on the Treasury benches. He shculd take an early opportunity, if this information was not supplied by Tuesday next, of testing the feeling of the House on this important question. It seemed to him humiliating and degrading to the House to be treated in this manner by the Government of the colony.

Considerable discussion ensued over the question.

The Hon. Mr SEDDON said the Government had not refused to give any information except where it put the Government in a false position.

ARBITRATION AND CONCILIATION BILL,

The Hon. W. P. REEVES moved the second reading of the Industrial Conciliation Bill, to encourage the formation of industrial unions and associations and to facilitate the settlement of industrial disputes. He said he proposed to refer the bill to the Labour Bills Committee after its second reading, and it might be assumed that it would get, fair consideration from that committee. The bill was no doubt a novel one, and was largely in the direction of experimental legislation, but the principle was not one that would be repudiated by either side of the House, and he thought placing a measure of this kind on the Statute Book would do a great deal of good in cases of conciliation and arbitration. Ho was speaking at the 5.30 adjournment.

The Hon. Mr REEVES continued his remarks. He went on to show the manner of the working of various conciliation boards on the Continent and in England. He had, he said, intended to confine the working of the bill to disputes between muster and trades unions, believing that if workmen not belonging -to any union could drag their master before a tribunal it would destroy the effect of the bill. The ficst portion of the bill was designed to induce trades unions and employes' associations to register, and to enable trades councils to register also for the purpose of the act. The idea was that unions should lay their troubles before the trades and labour councils, and let those bodies submit the matter in dispute to arbitration, and he hoped in time it would be possible to induce masters and men to submit all their disputes to the arbitration of the tribunal. The bill also provided for the establishment of local conciliation tribunals, which would consist of not more than six or less than four persons to hold office for three years, and to consist of equal numbers of employers and employes to be elected by the employers on ouq side and the trades and labour councils on the other. Regulations for the election could either be included in the bill or left to the Governor-in-Council. He had made no provision for trade boards, but only for district boards, as lie thought if the former camo into existence they •would work better without any State interference. It had not been very clearly stated what disputes should be inquired into, but the bill provided that no dispute should be taken to the board unless with the consent of both parties, Pjstrict boards would have power also to refer

matters to a court of arbitration. He had at first intended to have these courts in each district, but eventually decided to have only one, believing it was not desirable to send disputes to it if they could be decided in any other way. It would act as a sort of court of appeal, and any parties to a dispute which had come before the boards of conciliation would have the right of appeal from the board's decision, or the matter might be sent to the court by direction from the local body. Special provision had also been made for settling disputes between the Railway Commissioners and Railway Employes' Union, as he believed that a railway strike would be the most damaging one that could possibly take place, and he also thought railway employes should have somebody to go to with their grievances. That body was the court of arbitration, and he had endeavoured to prevent the Railway Commissioners being dragged before it on any frivolous grounds. No individual employe could go before the court, but any dispute must be taken in hand by the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants. He thought they might rely on that body's judgment not to take frivolous ca«es before the court. He had also provided for compulsory arbitration, on the ground that there might be cases which could only be dealt with in this manner. The court would consist of three persons to be appointed by the Government — ono of which was to be president — and two assessors on the recommeudation of either employers or employes. He did not think a board so constituted would be likely to abuse its power. He appealed to the House to carefully consider the bill and make it a useful measure.

Sir JOHN HALL said, however much they differed from Mr Reeves, they should all recognise the care and attention with which he had prepared this bill. He pointed out that in the old country unions were thoroughly organised, which was not so in this colony, where unions were not so wealthy or so experienced. That, however, should not deter them from endeavouring J;o set up boards to deal with these disputes. There could be no doubt of the advisability of dealing with this matter. It would at any rate educate public opinion on these questions, and the public need not depend on exaggerated cases on both sides, but the real facts of the case would be thrashed out. He thought there could be no doubt that all experience showed that a voluntary system was preferable, and he thought that either party should be allowed to initiate j>roceedings. As to compulsory arbitration, he thought they should keep the political element out of it altogether. Ministers, by the virtue of their position, were bound to be partisans, and he thought an inquiry by a Minister in any dispute should not be insisted on. He agreed with the Minister that the bill was experimental, and that being the case they should not attempt too much. He hoped the provision that every industrial agreement should be filed in the Supreme Court would be struck out, as he thought it unnecessary. If the bill was a good one he failed to see why its advantages should be denied to a body of workmen who did not belong to a union. He could not agree with that portion of the bill relating to the Railway Commissioners. They were not employers in the ordinary sense of the term as they were not pecuniarily interested. They acted for the railway servants on one side, and the people of New Zealand, represented by the House, on the other, and the railway servants had always the right to appeal to the House. He hoped the Ministers would succeed in passing a useful bill.

Mr REEVES having replied, the motisn for second reading was agreed to.

AUDITING LOCAL ACCOUNTS.

The Hon. W. P. REEVES moved the second reading of the Local Authorities' Accounts and Audit Bill. He asked the Honse to agree to the bill going to the Public Accounts Committee without debate, and that the discussion might be taken on the committal of the bill. — Agreed to.

ELKCTIVK LAND BOAHDS.

The Hon. J. M'KENZIE moved the second reading of the Land Boards' Election Bill. The object of the bill was to give the people of the colony a direct interest in electing persons who would have the management and administration of the waste lands of the colony. He had promised last year to bring down a bill of this kind, and he thought it better to embody this principle in a separate bill. The mode of elections which he had devised would, he hoped, meet with the approval of the House. It was possible it might require some amendments in committee. The policy of giving people direct control over the management of the waste lands of the Crown was, he thought, a good one, as people would take care that suitable men would be elected to those positions who would be altogether independent of the Ministry of the day. The commissioners of different districts would act for the Government on the boords. He thought the plan he had proposed for electing members of land boards on the same day and in the same manner as members of the House of Representatives were elected was a good provision, and he thought the bill on the whole would meet with the approval of the people of the colony.

The Hon. Mr ROLLESTON said ho always thought Mr M'Keuzie was a bold man, but he did not think he was so bold as to introduce the present bill. He had hoard of elective land boards for the last 25 years, but no one had the hardihood to propose such a bill. He disliked the bill from beginning to end, and saw no good whatever in it. The Minister for Lands had said he brought it down in fulfilment of a promise, but he was satisfied it would not pass. If it did pas 3he wished the Minister joy of it. The Hon. Mr RICHARDSON said he was inclined to speak of the bill in much stronger terms even than Mr Rolleston, but they had to be very careful of the terms they used in the House now. His opinion was that the bill was not worth considering, and it should be laughed out of the House. He pointed out that one land board was to be elected for every 61,000 people, and 15,000 people would be required to vote for one member of the board. It would cost a member of the board no less than L7OO to contest an election, and it would take him about a year to canvass his district. For his services a member of a land board was to be paid the magnificent sum of 10s per diem for every day he sat on the board. He should vote against the bill, and said there was no desire whatever on the part of the people for such a bill.

Mr SCOBIE MACKENZIE agreed with the two last speakers that there was no necessity whatever for this bill. He had never heard an opinion expressed by members of the House in favour of elective land boards, nor had he ever heard any desire for it in the country, although, of course, he had frequently heard dissatisfaction expressed with members of boards. He pointed out that under the present system they had it in their power to have the very best men in the colony on land boards ; and why on earth were they not put there ? It was said they would be able to elect the best men by the bill, but he contended it would narrow it down considerably. Another objection to the bill was that the country would be pub to tremendous expense and turmoil to get inferior land boards,

He did not feel disposed to laugh, but was more inclined to weep, that a Minister for Lands should bring in such a bill. It was nearly as contemptible a measure as could be imagined.

Mr THOMPSON (Marsden) saw nothing wrong in the bill except the mode of election, and he did not see that the men best qualified for that position would be elected by the mode proposed by the bill. Ho hoped the Minister would adopt some other mode of election, either by local bodies or some other way.

Colonel FRASER thought if the Minister for Lands considered he would get any men worth a grain of salt under this bill, he was greatly mistaken. The whole thing was ridiculous, and he was surprised at the Minister for Lands bringing in such a bill.

Mr MACKINTOSH said there was no difficulty whatever in getting men to attend education board meetings, and much time would be saved by having the election on the same day as for members of the House. He did not approve of the Commissioner of Crown Lands being chairmanof the board, and thought the board should elect their own chairman. There would be no difficulty whatever in working and electing boards under the bill.

Mr HOUSTON approved of the principle of the bill, but did not like the manner proposed for electing boards. He suggested that the elections be held in the same- manner as for boards of education.

Mr BLAKE! was in favour of elective land boards, but did not approve of the mode of election under tho bill. It was also giving too much power to the Minister of tho day. If ho had thought this bill was going to be brought in he should not have expressed himself in favour of land boards being made elective.

Messrs C. H. Mills, Duncan, Hogg, J. Kelly, Buick, Lawry, M'Lean, Meredith, Shera, and Seddon supported the principle of the bill ; and Messrs Buchanan, Fish, Buckland, Lake, and Wright opposed it.

The bill was read a second time on the voices. The House rose at 1.50 a.m. THE MINING BILL.

In the Mining Bill, the amended clause regarding water races as included in the measure by the goldfields and mines committee, provides that the holder of any license or certificates for a water race shall not have any claim for damage through the fouling of tho water by mining operations or by the deposit of tailings or raining debris from any registered race, provided that the flow of water shall not be stopped or the race itself injured. This clause replaces that struck out by the committee. It is also stipulated that the provisions of the clause, as was the case with that previously in the bill, shall not apply to the Coromandel, Thames, Ohinemuri, and Te Aroha goldfields. This condition was retained at the suggestion of Colonel Fraser. Some amendments, of which Mr C. H. Mills had given notice, were withdrawn.

JOTTINGS

The Premier is unwell, and has resolved to take a complete rest for two or three days. He was, therefore, not in the House to-day.

The Minister for Labour, speaking in regard to the Industrial Conciliation Bill, says that the larger and wealthier unions are the more likely they are to seek arbitration.

Mr E. A. Haggen, who was recently committed for trial for libel at Woodville, has petitioned the House that the Libel Bill may become law.

"We have been here now for seven weeks," said Mr J. W. Kelly to-day declaiming against the waste of tiaie, "and not a single hand's turn of business has been done. I hope that when the next general election comes round it will result in the sweeping away from this House at once and for ever of those members who waste time in this way."

SATURDAY, AUGUST 13. THE SPEAKER AND THE HOUSE

Considerable anxiety is felt by the more experienced members with reference to the present state of affairs in the House. Day by day worse behaviour has prevailed, and "scenes' occur several times daily. In fact, on the smallest provocation, the House becomes a regular bear garden. Exciting " rows " take place, and the "lie direct" is exchanged with a frequency of which the mere reports of debates give no idea, and most insulting expressions are freely hurled from one side to the other. Every one is wondering where things will end. More than once there have been plaiuly hinted threats of personal violence to be subsequently used outside the House, and people are beginning to wonder how long it will be before one member goes up to another and pulls his nose under that of the Speaker. Major Steward, unfortunately, seems wholly unable to cope with the rowdyism which has grown up under his too gentle rule. He evidpntly does his best to maintain order and certainly to preserve impartiality, but unluckily he is so very anxious to show his fairness that he always gives the impression of weakness, upon which both sides presume. There is a lamentable lack of strength and backbone about his presidency, and of this more and more advantage is being taken until the order-loving section of the House feel seriously alarmed at the prospect of disorder and indecorum which peers out ahead. A new departure has occurred in the Minister for Lands openly challenging the Speaker's ruling by notice of motion. It was stated in the lobbies this afternoon that the Speaker had declared he should allow no other business to be transacted until this matter should have been disposed of, and that he has precedent for this course. It was also 'reported that earnest efforts had been made by private members to induce the lion J. M'Kenzie to withdraw his motion, butthat he flatly refused, and iutimated his intention of pressing it to the utmost. A curious sort of excitement prevails generally among members, as it is felt that very awkward complications are pending, and that nobody can exactly foresee what the end is to be. Nearly all seem to agree that a co ip d'etat of some sort is needed to end Iho present discreditable state of affairs.

JOTTINGS

Mr W. Hutchison claims, and I believe with reason, that he is the first mau who ever got an eight hours bill through committee in any part of the world.

Supporters of the Bible-in-Schools Bill are much cheered and encouraged by the result of the Hon. Downie Stewart's introduction of the bill in the Legislative Council, the majority against it being so small. Had the Hon. Messrs Bowen, Acland, and Taiaroa been present the bill would have been carried.

The Servants' Registry Office Bill, which is under the charge »f Mr Seddon, provides that a person conducting a registry office must be licensed, and must be approved by two justices of the peace, a clergyman, or six residents of the district. The measure is designed to prevent the fleecing of people in search of work. The Hon. W. P. Reeves says that the growing feeling of the working classes of New Zealand is against strikes as a means of settling labour disputes, Another discussion took place on Friday regarding the Wellingtou-Manawatu railway,

some members urging that the Government should purchase that line. Colonel Fraser pointed out that that could not bo done without further borrowing. Mr Seddon wanted to know whother members from Otago, Auckland, or other places would be willing to forego a share of the L 200,000 for public works in order that the Government might buy the railway. In answer to this there were general cries of " No."

A return laid before the House on Friday shows that the value last year of kauri gum for export .at L 52 per ton was higher than in any other period during the last 10 years. Butter was valued at Is 6d per lb as against 9|d in 1882, and cheese, which was 4Ad per lb last year, was 6d in 1882.

MONDAY, AUGUST 15,

THE LAND BILL

The Waste Lauds Committee began tho consideration of the Land Bill this morning. The first proposal discussed was the important concession, suggested by the Minister for Lands, granting a lease in perpetuity at 4 per cent., without any revaluation. This was chosen as a point upon which there is considerable difference of opinion, tho committee considering that it would be well to settle it at once. A long discussion ensued, but at length an amendment moved by the Minister for Lands embodying the principle of tho lease in perpetuity was carried by six votes to one. I uuderstaud that the ono member voting against the amendment was Mr Rolleston. He and one other were the only members of the Opposition present. That party maintain that tho proposal of the Minister for Lands for a lease such as that described is a dangerous one, as virtually giving away the freehold without any benefit to the State ; because if the rental is to remain at 4- per cent, computed upon the value of tho land when first taken up, tho unearned increment, they say, will be relinquished by the State, so that all the advantago derived from the incrensing value of the land will go to the leaseholder. On the other hand, Sir George Grey, who favours the proposed lease in perpetuity, says that the unearned increment will be secured by a land tnx. Another objection urged by Mr Rolleston to the new lease is that it will create a class of favoured peoplo who will be ablo to go upon the land upon exceptionally easy terms, and who practically will be paid to do so. Such special advantages as these given to one class as against the great body of landholders, who have had to observe comparatively stringent conditions, are in his opinion undesirable. I was talking to-day to a Government supporter who is well known to have strong views in favour of the freehold tenure. He says that he is perfectly satisfied with the proposal for a lease in perpetuity. In his opinion the opposition shown to it is factious and urged simply in a spirit of fault finding.

THE SPEAKER'S ILLNESS.

Major Steward was taken suddenly ill this afternoon, and some alarming rumours were prevalent as to his condition. The Speaker was about this morning as usual, but after partaking of luncheon he was seized with a bad attack proceeding from the liver and kidneys, and a hasty summons was despatched for Dr Grace. The latest report to-night is that the Speaker is much better and ho will probably be able to take the chair to-morrow as usual.

THE SITUATION,

I heard to-day that the question at issue between the Governor and his Advisers is not merely with relation to Council appointments (which is one of the number), but also of personnel. That is to say, according to one member of the House, his Excellency, although quite willing to appoint members of the " Labour " party who, by past public service or otherwise, have given proof of their fitness and capacity, is not disposed to nominate men who might be merely recommended as belonging to the labouring class, and whose qualification might only be utter inexperience in public life and absolute subservience to Ministerial dictation. His Excellency is said (I know not with what truth) to have expressed himself strongly against any " class " nomination, or any other movement in the direction of Betting class against class. It is rumoured that he has intimated very strongly his objection to such a course, but that Ministers contend he has no right to pick and choose, and ought to accept their recommendation ; to which it is retorted that if they cannot act harmoniously with the Crown they.havo a constitutional alternative. I do not say on my own authority that this has been the nature of the communications, for, of sourse, I have no authoritative means of learning, but some members tell me they have good reason to believe the case to be as above stated.

I hear that the Premier has explicitly disclaimed to several people to-day any intention of wantonly or precipitately forcing a dissol ition, so the matter virtually remains where it was at first.

TUESDAY, AUGUST 16. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

In the Legislative Council to-day the Friendly Societies Act Amendment Bill, giving better security to members of junior lodges, was passed. The Land Transfer Bill and some local bills were advanced a stage.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

The amount of business transacted by the House of JRopresejitatives to-day was prodigious and unprecedented. Eleven bills, some dealing with very large questions, were read a second time, and several passed. Shortly after meeting, tho Speaker having made an explanation, the Minister for Lands withdrew his motion challenging the Speaker's ruling. Sir George Grey having received a reply that the correspondence between the Cabinet and the Governor on tho subject of appointments to the Council would be laid on the table to-morrow, the leader of the Opposition raised a question of privilege in reference to the publication by the Ministerial organ of information concerning the land and income tax which was refused to the House, but he was defeated. In the evening the following bills passed the second reading stage: — Land tor Settlement-, Stock, Arms Act Kepe.il, Dairy Imlu>try, Board and Lodgng Houses, Provincial Ordinances Repeal, Kuiapoi Native Receives, O-imaru Harbour Board Advances Repayment, Criminal Code, Shop and Shop Assistants, Factory Act Amendment. The Workmen's Lien Bill was passed. Consideration pf the Servants' Registry Office Bill was adjourned.

LAND FOR SKTTLBSIKNT HILL,

The Hon. J. M'KENZJE moved the second reading of the Land for Settlement Bill, to authorise the acquisitiou of private lands for the purposes of settlement. He said this bill had been thoroughly "gone into by the House last session. It vfis not proposed to deal with the land compulsorily. He had received a great many applications from people who were desirous of selling their land to the Governmeut, but he was powerless to do anything, and he had therefore proposed in thia bill that those lands could, be secured when both parties were agreeable. He thought great good would be effected by a bill of this kind, if the land could bo purchased on reasonable terms, There

could bo no doubt of the great want felt in this direction, and ho pointed out that in the Canterbury district there was very little land available for settlement purposes. As ha had said, he had received several offers of land, and he thought there would be no troublo in securing it. Many members of the House were very anxious to see. the bill become law in order that land would be available for small settlors. The bill provided for the appointment of Land Purchase Commissioners, to consist of tho Surveyor-general, Commissioner of Taxes, Commissioner of Crown Lands, and district land registrars of the district in which the laud was situated.

The Hon. Mr ROLLESTON would not oppose the bill, as he thought there were a few places in the colony whero it might bo taken advantago of. In several parts of the colony there was no necessity for it, certainly not in the North Island. In the Middle Island, however, as the Minister had shown, there was some necessity for the bill. Ho thought the Minister would have to bo very. careful in this matter, and said he would be besieged by people with second-clas3 land to dispose of". What was required was that the land should be taken compulsorily, and not as a matter of favour. He was sadly afraid the scheme would break down, as it was not a scheme that a Minister should take up. His information was to tho effect that there was plenty of land for settlement. Tho proper course, in his opinion, was to adopt in tho Middle Island a scheme combining public works and settlement together, as was proposed by his Government. They should taku a railway through from Blenheim to Christchurch, which would open up blocks of land for settlement, and mako their settlement and railway communications go together. That would be better than the plan proposed. He sympathised with tho Minister in his desire for obtaining land for settlement, but he thought the bill would nob work, and that tho Minister's staircase would be blocked by people who would wish to got rid of inferior land. The bill was purely an experiment.

Mr REES said there was a great desire to obtain land for settlement in this manner, and every English Minister had endorsed the principle of taking land for settlement. Ho only regretted the bill was not passed last year, and he was glad to hoar no opposition would bo offered to it. The bill itself he hailed with great pleasure, and ho hoped both sides of tho House would support it.

Dr NEWMAN supported the bill, but he thought the Minister had not devoted sufficient care or attention to its preparation. It 6eemed to him preposterous that whilst the Legislature should borrow L 50.000 a year, no proposal was made whatever for tho payment of the debt. That should be provided for, and the debt should not be left to tho future. Tho bill also proposed to allow people to take up v few acres up to 300 acres, but ho thought it should not be in the direction of assisting farmers, but those who had no moans to becomo farmers. His opinion was that tho laud should be cut into village allotments, and he hoped the Minister would agree to reduce the size if allotments from 300 acres to five or 10 acres.

Mr BUCKLAND favoured the bill on principle, but did not think it would have a successful issue. As far as this colony was concerned, he undertook to say that any person who possessed LISOO cash would be able to purchase a farm at once. He objected to the bill also on the ground that, as lands were to be disposed of on perpetual lease, it would bo thrown back on Ministers' hands again in 10 years' time, when the land itself was exhausted through being constantly worked. Ho should like to see the land cut up in smaller pieces than that proposed by the bill. Mr THOMPSON (Marsden) pointed out that no provision was made for valuing different sections of land. He presumed the Government intended to purchase only open land — not bush land. The bill was not required at all in his opinion, aud the money might be much better spent in opening up roads in the colony. If the scheme were to be a success at all, the land should be thrown open under an optional system of tenure, so as to give people who desired it the right of acquiring a freehold. Mr FISH would oppose the bill right through, as he was decidedly opposed to its principle. He contended that if lands of this description could bo bought privately, there was no necessity for tho State to interfere. He asked how Mr M'Konzio could reconcile this bill with tho proposals in the Land Bill for what he might call eternal lease at 4 per cent, with no valuation for improvements. This bill proposed th-.it land — in tho South Island, he presumed—could bo held on lease at 5 per cent, on tho capital value of the land with valuation, whereas by the Land Bill land could be held on lease forever at 4 per ceut. and no valuation at all. He said Mr M'Kenzio was rapidly losing any reputation he ever possessed of being a sound land reformer by bringing in bills of this kind.

Captain RUSSELL would vote for the bill, though he thought there was no necessity for it. It struck one more blow at the freehold tenure, and would check the colonising spirit which had driven them all to this colony. There was plenty of land available for settlement, especially in the Catlins district, but the fact was it could not be opened up for want of roads. The system of perpetual lease was again brought up in this bill, and he thought that was a pernicious system. Under that system it seemed to him that the tendency to .economise and provide for the younger mombers of a family would bo wanting. It would also tend to nationalise the luii'l, which, to his mind, would be injurious to the last degree. lb seemed to him ridiculous, as advanced by Mr Rees, that a man who was unable to make :v living in town would bo able to take up land in small areas under this bill, and get his living by it. He nhould not oppose the bill, as it. seemed to him a good conservative measure, and he was oonvinced that when people became possessed of land they gave up many of the high falutin notions they previously held, and that tended to the security of tenure.

Mr TAYLOR strongly supported the bill

Mr MACKENZIE (Olutba) considered that the money which the Minister proposed to spend on the re-purchase of those estates would be better spent in opening up ldiid.s already occupied by roads. Therft was no doubt the bill was required in some parts of the colony, and if lands were to bo repurchased a system of perpetual lease should prevail instead of freehold. He agreed with Mr Rolloston that the Minister would bu besieged by people with second-class land foe disposal, and that the best land would nob bo obtained.

Sir J. HALL pointed out that there was a different principle in the bill as to expending the money proposed to be raised under it. He meant that money should be spent under appropriation by Parliament from year to year, and that was a very important point. As to the bill itself, he did not think much would come of it.

Messrs M'Guire, Wilson, Meredith, Harkness, J. Mills, and Lake spoke on the bill. Tha Hon. J. M'KENZIE, in replying, said that if the Opposition were on the Governmonb benches to-morrow they would have to propose a similar measure, a.a the demand, for land |o^

s 'Ltlement was one that no Government could i ;nore. He held that if it were a good thing they should buy Native land in the North Island for settlemi nt, it was equally good they should purchaso large estates in the South Island for the saite purpose. , He was speakirg at the 5 30 adjournment. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. LA.ND FOR SETTLEMENT KILL.

The Hon. J. M'KENZIE continued his remarks. He said if the bill did not provide that L 50,000 could be paid by the Treasury it would be impossible to buy any land under the bill at all. He replied to several objections made, aud said he had provided sufficient safeguards by the appointment of a board, who would make a valuation of the land proposed to be purchased before the Minister took any steps to acquire it. As to the argument that no sinking fund was provided for paying off these debentures, he said that the House could at any time provide for that. The motion was agreed to by 45 to 8, and the bill referred to the Waste Lauds Committee.

STOCK BILL.

The Hen. J. M'KENZ IE moved the second reading of the Stock Bill to regulate the importation, removal, and trading of stock, and to provide against the introduction and spread of diseases affecting stock. He said the bill was largely a consolidating measure, and he asked the house to agree to the second reading without debate in order that the bill might be referred to the Stock Committee. The bill proposed to abolish cattle boards, and also lo put a small tax on cattle so as to get returns of stock more easily. The motion was agreed to, and the bill referred to the Stock Committee.

DVIRY INDUSTRY BILL.

The Hon. J. M'KENZIE movtd the sccor.d reading of the Dairy Industry Bill, t j regulate the manufacture of butter and cheese for export and provide for the purity of milk used in such manufacture. He thought tho House would at once recognise the necessity f .>r such a bill as this, and that cheese and butter exported from this colony should have a brand on it in the interests of people who exported it. Taking the bill as a whole, ho thought it would me3t the requirements of this very important industry, and would greatly benefit those engaged in it. That industry was yearly getting more important, and before long would benefit tho colony to the extent of thousands of pounds. Ho proposed to send the bill to the Agricultural Committee for its consideration. Tho bill provided for the branding of all dairy produce, for the appointment of inspectors, &c, with full power to act, niul he thought it would largely benefit the colony if passed into law. Sir .J. HALL was very glad to find tho Minister recognising the importance of this industry, .vhich was really a most valuable one. It was clearly their duty to prevent anything which would prove injurious to our exported produce. He was bound to say, however, that some of tho provisions of the bill appeared to be vf an irksome character, and ho hoped that would not be allowed to interfere with such a valuable Industry. The Hon. Mr ROLLESTON also called attention to several provisions which he considered were too stringent, although he recognised the Minister's efforts to assist this important industry. Clause 6, for instance, provided that a certificate from an inspector may bo cancelled at any time piovided that if in the inspector's opinion the dairy is not kept clean or produce not manufactured to his satisfaction. That he thought a very arbitrary provision, and he hoped it would be inquired into by the committee. The most important portion of the bill, in his opinion, was the clause providing for the branding of cheese and butter exported from the colony. Mr BUCHANAN congratulated the Minister for Lands on bringing in this bill, but he hoped it would not be pressed forward too hastily. Mr TAYLOR supported tho bill, but regretted it did not introduce a system of grading. Mr CARNCROSS supported the bill as being one of the most valuable that had been brought forward, and he hoped it would bo made law this session. Unless they had such measures as this to guarantee tho quality of dairy produce it was impossible for this industry to prosper as it should do. He trusted that no time would be lost before passing such a useful measure.

Messrs M'GUIRE and LAWRY supported the bill. - Mr T. MACKENZIE (Clutha) thought the bill attempted too much, and that whilst it ■was necessary in some respects, it put too much power in the hands of an inspector. He should be glad in committee to propose some modification in the bill. What was really wanted in his opinion was provision to be made for the speedy transit of their butter, and also to secure cool chambers for its conveyance to London.

PUBLIC DEBT

The Colonial Treasurer presented to-night the return moved for by Sir John Hall, showing the successive increases or decreases in the public debt and sinking fund in each year, and under successive Treasurers. The main feature of interest consists in the last two years' comparative return, about which there has been much controversy. According to this paper the respective amounts of the gross debt in the last two years were L 38,830,350 in 1891 and Li 38,713,068 in 1692; of the sinking fuud, L 1,487,842 and L 1.057.86 2: of the net debt, L 37,343,308 and L 37,675,206. Consequently iixa net debt shows an increase of L 331,878.

THE LAND BILL.

Tho Waste Lands Committee are pi ogressing so well with the Land Bill that they expect to have completed their work to-morrow. The renewal of the lease in perpetuity — or " the eternal lease," as a member cf the Opposition styled it — tvas fixed at 5 instead of 4 per cent. The conditions as to cash purchases were modified^ the terms required to fulfil the residence conditions being shortened. An important amendment v?as made in clause 3, by which alteration it is provided that a person holding a piece of ground may purchase the adjoining portion without competition if it does not exceed 50 acres. The limit originally fixed in the bill was 20 acres. Mr Mackintosh, at whose instance the amendment was made, is not satisfied with even 50 acres, and will move for an extended area in committee in the House.

MINISTERIAL EXPENSES.

A return of Ministerial expenses and allowances was presented to the House to-day by the Premier. The figures for the past three years (1890, 1891, 1892) are as follow :— Salaries— L 5322, L 5340, L 5067; travelling allows, nces and expenses— Lls96, L 1373, L 2137; house allowances— Ls76, L 447, L 864; residences— Ll9O, L 561, L 698. Total— L77Bs, L 7681, L 8766. The other expenses of Government House and grounds amounted to L 9425, L 7049, and L 6377 respectively. In the past three years the expenses of the Legislative Council were respectively L 33,190, L 45.885, L 27.862.

LAND AND INCOME TAX,

The bill amending the Land and Income Assessment Act has been circulated. It declares (that all land and mortgages of friendly

societies, savings banks, and the commissioners of sinking funds, or land owned and mortgages held by the trustees of any sinking fund of any local body tho revenues of which are not taxed, shall be exempt from taxation. ..It is also provided that the mortgages and income of any public charitable institution shall be free from taxation as already stated.

Exemption is granted where a company has borrowed mcucy on debentures, the bill containing the following jn-ovision on this subject, to be added to section R of schedule C of the act passed last year : —

Provided that a company, having borrowed money in the manner hereinbefore mentioned upon debentures, shall not be liable to be assessed for income tax in respect of so much of the money so borrowed as the company piovesto the satisfaction of the commissioners at the ilate for makinz the annual return of income was invested by such company on mortgages of land in Nuw Zealand duly leshtered ; and also that such mortgages of land had lieen assessed for laml tax under schedule A of this art, and that the then holder of any such debenture was residing beyond New Zealand ; and such regulations shall from time to time be prescribed as may be necessary to give effect to this provision.

The other important provision, of which you have also been informed, extending the exemption in cases of income from business, is comprised in the following provision, which is to take the place of section 2, schedule D, in the act of last session.

Tux shall be assessed and paid by every person upon the income derived from business as aforesaid, and, when the taxable amount of income so derived has been ascertained in accordance with tbis act, every person, whether carrying on business alone or in paitnership, will be entitled to a deduction liy way of exemption of L3OO ; but no person shall be allowed more than one Mich exemption cither in respect of income derived from business or in respect of income derived from employment or emolument

Amendments consequent upon this change are made in various other clauses following. The amendments to the second section of schedule A provide that the owner of any land or mortgage which does not produce more than L2OO per year shall be entitled to the further exemption allowed if he cannot earn a further income from business or employment. The increased exemption was previously allowed only for a land or mortgage of Ll2O a year. The following new section is added to schedule A :—: —

Where land is sold on time or deferred payment by any owner other than- the (Jrown, and money is owing to the vendor in respect of such loan, the amount so owing shall, for the purpose of this act, be deemed to bo a registered mortgage, and sli ill be stated t-y the vendor accordingly in any return made by him under this act, and the amount so owing may be deducted by the purchaser as it" it were secured to the vendor upon a registered mortgage.

The return asked for by Sir George Grey shows that the value of improvements subject to the provisions of tho Land and Income Tax Assessment Act is L 9,016,505. To this is added tho following note : — " If all improvements were exempted the assessment upon which the tax woiild be payable would be reduced by L9.01G.505." This would appear to be quite evident from the return itself without any explanatory nolu. Sir George Grey has not made up his mind to take action re the tax on impiovcmcnts. It is in order that he may make calculations on the subject that he has asked for the return.

REDUCED CABLE RATES,

Tho Postmaster-general states that he has always regarded the cable rates between Europe and Australia and New Zealand as excessive, aud with the object of having them reduced he approached the Cable Company and the Australian Governments. He proposed that the European rate with New Zealand should be reduced from 10s 2d per word to 4s 6d, and the rate with Sydney from 9s 6d for 10 words to 3a ; each additional word to be charged sd.

Both the Cable Company and the Australian Governments decline to make any reduction in the rate for Associated Press work (3d per word), but agree that any individual newspaper should be allowed to receive intercolonial cable messages at Id per word, with the distinct understanding that the message is for the sole use of the paper receiving it. Mr Ward is strongly of opinion that a general reduction in press messages is not far distant, and he is favourable to a very low rate. The penny rate, ho points out, will be of advantage to newspapers desirous of obtaining special reports of any particular incident occurring in Australia. . At the time the proposod reductions were first considered he approached tho colonial merchants with the view of securing from them a guarantee of LSOOO towards recouping the annual loss. Replies have now been received from several important centres. Christchurch had wired that they were willing to guarantee LIOOO a year : while Auckland, Dunediu, and Invercargill had expressed their willingness to contribute a fair proportion. Some leading men in other parts had replied favourably, while the Wellington merchants are to meet to-day to discuss the proposals. It was not fair, Mr Ward thought, that the taxpayers should have to guarantee the whole amount, and had it not been for the merchants' guarantee a reduction in the rates would have proved impossible. At the I'ostal Conference in Melbourne yesterday these proposals were considered, and with but one alteration were accepted — viz., that the Australian Governments had increased their European rates to 4s 9d from 4s, and this had raised the proposed rates to New Zealand only to 5s 3d, but, as he proposed to reduce tbe land rate from 2d to Id, the actual rate would bo 5s 2d per word.

The Postmaster-general (Mr Ward) also proposed that the land rate on colonial cables should be reduced from 6d to 3d ; and if New South Wales could only be persuaded to act similarly, messages between the colonies could be transmitted at a rate of 2s 6d for 10 words.

In order to give proper notice, the reductions do not come into force until the middle of September or Ist October. The estimated loss of revenue by these reductions is between L 32,000 and L 33,000 per annum, but it is expected that increased traffic will largely reduce this, and it is not anticipated that the Government's loss will be hoiivv, nor that the merchants' guarantee of LSOOO is likely to be required to the full extent.

Mr Ward refers with great satisfaction to the fact that the reduced rates give the cheapest cable service in the world.

JOTTINGS.

It is proposed that henceforth appointments to the Legislative Council should be made as marks of honour and distinction, and that the Governor should only call to that chamber such persons as have served the public as legislators or administrator.", or who have sought the becefit of the State in the way of moral or social reform, or applied themselves to the profession of the i-romoters of literature, science, or art ; and in the Gazette containing tbe nomination of Legislative Councillors .should set forth the particular service for which each of them respectively has been nominated. Mr W. Hutchison is moving in this matter.

A suggestion has been made that one of the Railway Commissioners be .required to atteud during tae pitting of Parliament at tho first

day's sitting in each year to give information asked by resolution or in reply to questions which may bo propounded to them under tho standing orders of the House. A motion to this effect has been tabled by Mr O'Conor. Mr Scobie Mackenzie's Corrupt Practices Prevention Act Amcudmcufc Bill will provide that no 2>ayment for election expenses shall be made except by the candidate ; that every payment of 20s or more for election expenses shall be vouched for by a bill of particulars and a receipt ; that all claims, for election expenses must be rendered within 14 days ; full accounts and declarations to be furnished to the returning officer within 35 days after election, such return and declaration to be open to public iuspection for two years ; election expenses to be limited to oue hundred pounds (L 100), exclusive of advertising and rent of rooms, any excess to involve a penalty for corrupt practices.