THE MINISTER FOR LANDS AT PALMERSTON.

Otago Witness, Issue 1945, 4 June 1891, Page 17

THE MINISTER FOR LANDS AT PALMERSTON.

HE DEFBNDB HIS ADMINISTRATION.

(Fbom Oub Own Befobtebs.) Palmeeston, June 1

The Hon. J. M'Kenzie, Minister for Lands, addressed a meeting of his constituents in the Town Hall, Palmerston, this evening in rep'y to the charges recently made against his administration by Mr Spence, ex-Commissioner of Crown Lands, Southland. There was a large and representative _ attendance of electors, including persons from the country districts, and several ladies were also present. On the motion of Mr M. Fagan, the Mayor of Palmerston (Mr J. C. Scott) was voted to the chair. The Hon. J. M'Kenzie, who was received with warm applause, after thanking the meeting for the flattering attendance, said when he last appeared before them it was as a candidate for their suffrages as their representative in the Parliament of New Zealand. They had done him the honour on that occasion of returning -him as their representative. He asked now to be allowed to take that first opportunity' in public of returning hfs thanks for the honour they had done him on that occasion, being the fourth for that portion of the Waitaki electorate. He deemed it his duty to appear before them that evening tp render

AN ACCOUNT OF HIS STEWABDSHIP. The position he had held when he last appeared before them was now materially altered. He was then simply a candidate for their suffrages. He now appeared as their elected member, and also as a Minister of the Crown. They were aware that during the period of 20 years he had occupied the position of a public man in their midst he had never been afraid to meet his constituents face to face' and show in what manner he had used the trust they h*d reposed in him— (Applause.) He was there, therefore, that night to give to them an - account of his stewardship as their representative, and to explain to them the political and administrative actions of the Ministry of which he had the honour of being a member. He also sought that opportunity of referring to charges which had been made against the. Government of the day as a whole and against himself personally. This portion of his programme, so far as he was individually concerned, would have been quite unnecessary in Palmerston, where he had been so well known for the last quarter of a century to a large number of the people ; and had he been holding the position only of a private member of the House he did not think it would b9 necessary for him to trouble them that evening. — (Applause.) teut as a Minister of the Crown, being looked upon as a representative of the whole- colony, in portions of which he was not known personally^ the case was different.' As they were awarejthe > colony of New Zealand in December last declared at the polls th»t ifc.had no confidence in the Atkinson Ministry, and .that on the meeting of the House they tendered their resignations, ■and the present' Premier was sent for and aeked to form a Government. They would recollect that it had been stated by the Conservative press throughout the colony on that occasion that it would be impossible, to form a Ministry out of „the party following, Mr Ballance in the House, and that it had been a matter of great astonishment to a number .of people that the Ballance * .Ministry had been so quickly formed. • They had also been told that if the Government were formed from the party then in. Opposition <and led by Mr Ballance the country would go to . ruio. The Conservative press throughont the colony bad been anxious to make,, the people believe that if the present Government -got into office their policy would be one of reckless expenditure and extravagance. So much was, this the caße that .they had at first been referred to as the " scatter cash " Government, Now, one of the first things they had been' accused of on taking office was that, they had been the cause of ..•-,* t > :,; THE TWO SESSION^ IN ONE tEAB. He would ask them to consider f^r one moment who were really responsible ' for! ' calling the House together in JanO'ary.'Jast.. The previous Government knew<perfectly wall they were in a minority, and if they, had not thbnght so there was no necessity for -their immediate resignation when the House met. , Why did ,they not resign immediately on the result of .the election ' being made known and ' the feelings of the country ? The reason, we all know, was that they wanted to put a number of their old political friends into the Upper House, and to accomplish that it had been necessary for them to make-believe that they were still in a majority. No sooner had they completed the task of putting a number of members into the Legislative Council than they met the House with their resignations in the hands of the Governor, and tb.9 Government of which he was a member had to put words into his Excellency's mouth in the shape of the Speech^ from the Throne to show good reason why the House had been called together. Well, then, they bad been told that they ought to have adjourned the House for a fortnight, and to have gone on with the business of the ountry. They were to have no recess, and were expected in a fortnight to bring down a policy and carry on the administration of the country. They (the Ministry), however, thought differently. They thought that if they were to pnt the real position of the country in its proper light it; would be absolutely imperative that they should have some time to look into the affairs of the colony, and to make themselves acquainted with the various parts of the country and the various ramifications of the Government in all its parts. Consequently they asked' his Excellency to prorogue the House instead of.adjourning it. They could not have asked the Upper House to adjourn, and it was just possible that even if they did so that body would have taken no notice of their desire,' and they were not going to stand in the humiliating position of being placed at their mercy. That th<i Upper House was hostile to them (the Ministry) there could be no two opinions, as it was a well-known fact that it had been only with the greatest difficulty that they wpre able to get two members in that House — one to propose and the other to second the AddrPßß-ic-Rr>ply to his Excellency's addresp. He (Mr M'Kenzie) now, after four months' recess, ventured to say that the country would be satisfied they had taken the right course, as it had enabled them to get a grasp of the whole of the affairs of the colony, and they were now in a position to meet tea House with proposals which would, he felt sura, meet with the support of the House and the country. Before he proceeded to give them an outline of what that policy was, he would, refer briefly to what they had done

SINCE THEY TOOK OFFICE

Immediately on going into office, each member of the Government went carefully into the affairs of his department. Those of them who,

like himself, bad departments in various portions of the colony made visits of inspection to as many of those places as they posiibly could, with the result that they met together in Wellington as a Government in Cabinet, and came to the conclusion that a very large amount of retrenchment could be made in the public service without impairing its efficiency. They were aware what odium the actions of the Ministry in that direction had brought npon them through the medium of the Conservative press of the colony, whiob, on their assuming office, accused them of being the "scatter cash" Government. Odium was also cast upon them by those whom they had, unfortunately, had to dispense with, and their various friends throughout the colony. They had during the four months they had been in office reduced the public expenditure of the colony by between £50,000 and £60.000— (applause)— and the public service, he ventured to say, waa being carried on at the present moment just as well as it was on the day they took office. A great deal had been said in the press of the colony with regard to the action of the Government in that matter. They had been accused of doing injustice to this one and to that one, of dispensing with officers whose service could not be done without, and of inflicting punishment and acting in a cruel manner to those whose services had been dispensed with. They had also been told by a section of the press throughout the colony that Ministers were conducting themselves without any reference to their colleagues. He could assure his hearers that such had not been the case, and that in every instance of retrenchment the matter had been submitted and agreed to by the Government as a whole before action was taken by the Minister in whose department the retrenchment was contemplated ; and as for the oharge of cruelty or injustice and turning away their best officers, the Government did their utmost to retain their most able and deserving men (as it was obviously in their interest to do so), and to dispense with those whose services were of the least value to the people and could best be spared from the public service. As he had stated before, the government of the country was now being carried on just as efficiently, if not more so, than the day on which they went into office. He would ask them not to believe the stories thsy saw circulated in the press of the colony .with regard to the reasons for dispensing with this man and that man or the other man. In his own department, when the proper time came, he could give a good account to Parliament to which he was responsible for every case of retrenchment that had taken place in his department, and he was quite satisfied that every other Minister could do the same. As they must all be aware, retrenchment was a very' unpleasant duty to have to perform. He bad had ample experience of it during the last two or three months, and it was an operation he. would not again like to have to assist in. It was, however, their opinion as a Government that it was absolutely necessary in the best interests of the colony, and of the civil servants themselves as a body (which they had found very greatly overgrown) that the numbers should be reduced to something like a reasonable staff to carry- on the affairs of the colony. He conld not go into all the details that night, as he was sure the time.hia audience was prepared to listen to ; him would not permit of his doing so,, but -he wished to tell them this, that in every single case there were very good reasons for their economical actions. When thay saw it stated that- the Government had crippled the civil service by reducing its numbers to less - than wan ■ necessary to carry on the government of the country, he asked them to believe him when he emphatically denied that such was the case. The officers who were still in. the service, now that; the excrescences had been cab off, knew that, their own positions had been made more secure than it was before, because they must be aware that the departments were formerly overmanned* They were told that immediately on the House meeting the Ministry would be attacked on its retrenchment policy. Well, they were prepared to meet any attack in that direction, and if they were defeated the electors of Waitaki and other electors throughont the colony would have a voice in the matter before it was finally settled. He and his colleagues believed they were right. They believed the colony was with them, and they were prepared to stand or fall by their actions, and by what the people of the colony wonld decide at the ballot box.

THE POLICJf OF THE GOVERNMENT, so far as he was able to announce it to them there that evening, and they would understand that he was not, able to speak so freely as he would did 'he not occupy the position of a Minister of the Crown, in the first place was a policy of "no borrowing." They had come to the conclusion that the time had arrived when, in the beat interests of the people of the colony, they should be asked to cease borrowing, tojlive within their means, and to rely on their own resources. They (the Government) believed, if such a policy were carried out for a few years, that they would have such confidence restored in the colony as would bring about progress and prosperity throughout New Zealand. They believed that they had been living long enough, and too long, on borrowed money. No doubt it was a difficult matter to tell districts and towns that they would have to do with less expenditure, and consequently with fewer luxuries, and be more economical than they had been in the past. It was very easy to be extravagant while they had the means, and no doubt very pleasant for a Government while in office. Bat it was not so easy to economise and to reduce expenditure. In fact, the Government had come to the conclusion that the time had nearly arrived when instead of borrowing the ooantry should begin to think about reducing its indebtedness, and he hoped the time was not far distant when they would be able to submit proposals which would enable them to do so. They bad decided, as he had no doubt his hearers were already aware, to submit a proposal to Parliament to reduce the postage rates throughout the colony to one-half what they are at the present time. Some people might think they had been premature in bringing down proposals for a penny postage, but if they looked around them and further afield they would see what was going on in other parts of the world, and now the postage rates between New Z 'aland and the Continent would be reduced to 2£d per letter, the rate to Great Britain beiDg already reduced to 2|d. The Government knew that the penny postage question would be forced upon them in New Zealand whether they liked it or not, and they considered the present time to be the most favourable to make the change. — (Applause.) They had a surplus of revenue whioh would enable them to do so, and they knew that they were taking more out of the pockets of the people of the colony for postage than was necessary to oarry on the service. They had therefore determined to reduce the postage rates throughout the colony, which reduction of taxation would be shared in by the whole population of the colony. The Government believed that its action in reducing the postal rates would be approved by the colonists of New Zealand as a whole. They also proposed to submit to Parliament during the coming session a scheme for the alteration of the incidence of taxation so as to equalise the burden of taxation

by reducing that now borne by the bona fide settlers — the industrious classes and the masses of the people. He could not possibly give them the details of that measure just then, as they had first to submit it to Parliament, but he assured them that the measure had been carefully considered in all its details, and on its being eventually submitted to the House and to the people of the colony, he had no hesitation in saying on behalf of every member of the Cabinet that they hoped those proposals would meet with the general approval of the people. Time would not allow him to go into all the measures the Government intended to pronose to Parliament when it meets, but they woulaintrodace a number of measures which they considered to be in the interests of the colony. One of them would be a reform of the Upper House, limiting the time which members of that body could retain their seats. Whether they would be able to carry such a measure or not was doubtful. He had no doubt it could be carried in the Lower House, but he was not so sure about the Legislative Council. However, they intended to make an honest endeavour to have it passed. The Government would also introduce a bill dealing with the electoral laws of the colony. The object of that bill would be to consolidate all the present laws in existence in connection with their electoral rights, making at the same time such amendments as had been found necessary. They all looked upon the electoral laws as their charter of rights, and the aim of theGorernment would be to maintain those rights in their entirety. Amendments were proposed with a view of purifying the rolls. It was a well known fact to anyone who would look into those rolls that there were a large number of names which should not be there at all. Even their own electoral roll for that district contained the names of a large number of people who had been dead for years, or who had left the district and lost their qualifications. The Government proposal would be to strike off the rolls after a general election the names of those who would not exercise their vote. By one stroke they would purge the roll of all the names of those who were not entitled to be there. If by any misfortune, such as sickness or absence from the district, any person had been prevented from voting he could, immediately after the roll was purified, have his name re-entered, and that he (M'Kenzie) thought would be an effectual cure for the present evil. There were three provisions whioh would be submitted to Parliament— all going in the direction of securing to every man in, the colony the right to vote on the day of an election, and as they would soon have the proposals before them they would see for themselves that they were of a liberal character. It was also proposed to submit to Parliament measures dealing with the question of labour and capital, which they hoped would prevent an nndue clashing of those two great interests. . Those measures would not be of a revolutionary character, neither would they contain any 'fire* works, bat they would be such as he hoped would meet with the approval of both , the labour classes and the capitalists who employ labour ; and it was hoped that while preserving the rights of labour they would, give fairplay to capital. — (Applause,) Another measure of great importance whioh it was intended to submit to Parliament was

THE LAND BILL. Before referring to that question he would like to pat himself right with the people of; the colony as to his views on the land question. ' He bad been accused continually by the Conservative press of endeavouring to prevent anyone from becoming a freeholder. He had no such intention, and he had never lost an opportunity of eaying so when speaking on the land question. But what he did say, and what be was goirigto say sgain that night, and was prepared to stand by, was that if the Government was going to give special inducements to people to* settle upon the land they should see that they got bona; fide settlement. They could not possibly shut their eyes to the fact that in the past there had been a great deal of speculation with these Bpecial settlements; people forming, themselves into associations and taking up the land for settlement on special conditions, and never doing anything to the land but retaining it until such time as they could dispose of it at a profit. He, had also been accused of taking away from the people of the colony rights which had been granted to them by his predecessor' in office. He had seen it stated by the Conservative press that he (Mr M'Kenzie) had amended" the regulations made by the Hon. Mr Richardson, the late Minister of Lands. Now, the,' fact was, Mr Richardson never made any special settlement regulations. The regulations which he (the speaker) had amended, and which were now io existence, were first made by the Hon. Mr Ballance (the present Premier of the colony) in 1886, under sections 162 and 16 of "The Land Act 1885"— Mr Ballance's own act. , Mr Balance created a number of special settlements under those regulations, but Mr Richardson did not form a single settlement under them.' ■ It was true that he (the Hon. Mr Richardson); hnd carried out some negotiations that were pending forjsettlemenfrblocks when he took office, but he himself had not created a single special settlement, and those regulations when he (Mr M'Kenzie) came into office were a dead letter. He, however, immediately took the regulations in hand, and amended both the village settlement and the farm homestead regulations. The village settlement regulations were amended to meet the demands of the paople who had little or no capital at all, with tho hope that a little encouragement might induce them to leave the towns, and -become useful settlers. The farm homestead regulations were amended to meet the requirements of people who had a little capital, but not sufficient to bsoome freeholders. Under these regulations he had provided that the land should be taken up on the perpetual lease system. On the other band, the Hon. Mr Richardson's amendments of the Land Act of 1887 gave Mr Ballance's homestead settlers the right to purchase, and was the means of opening wide the door for speculation. There can be no doubt of this being the fact, as he could prove it from returns in his possession, and in the possession of the department in Wellington. In connection with these special settlements, therefore, to prevent further speculation, and to retain the freehold in the hands of the Crown, he had determined only to provide for perpetual leases. The village settlers had never been granted the right to acquire the freehold, and he attributed to this rule the fact that at the present moment so many of these people were still retaining possession of the land. He had noticed in his travels through these village settlements that very great progress had been made, and that in many cases people who were destitute when they first went on their village allotments were now in a fairly comfortable position. They made no complaint that the right to acquire the freehold was denied them. The only complaiut of the kind came from other people in the different districts who were inclined to buy up the village settlement allotments, and who were very much disappointed that they could not do so. The farm homestead ppecial st Elements on the other hand are, in many cases, a wilderness, and the process of creating largo estates out of them is going on extensively. He himself had seen one property of over 2000 acres created out of one of these

settlements. He had gone round it himself. — ' (Applause.) Now speaking of the land law in genera', he had predicted in 1886, when speakina on the second reading of the Hon. Mr Richardson's Land Bill, that the door would be opened wide to speculation, to dummyism and all sorts of frauds, including false declarations in connection with our land laws. He was pooh-poohed Jat the time for doing so; but he thought the time had now arrived when the people could see what the great evils of that measure had been. The necessity for an amendment of the land laws waa recognised not only by himself, but also by his predecessors and every right-thinking man in the colony. if they were going to amend the land laws and take a new departure, they should certainly try to avoid the errors of the past. Going over the whole colony of New Zealand, anyone who does so must be struck with the immense estates he would meet with in every portion of the colony. He had recently travelled through the Hawke's Bay provincial district. There large estates predominated. He had driven 10 miles through one estate, comprising the most beautiful land, without ever seeing the smoke of a house or meeting a single individual ; and that was only one of a great many of the same sort. They were told that there were 47 people owning three million acres of land, and he asked them if it was possible for the colony to prosper under such circumstances. He bad had a return prepared by Mr Percy Smith, the surveyor-general of the colony, and the head of the Lands department, which showed that they had only 2.800,000 acres of Crown lands suitable for settlement (first and second-class land) left. He also had another return, showing that during the last three years the colony had disposed of under cash, deferred payment, perpetual lease conditions, and for small grazing runs, rural land to the extent of 1,325,842 acres, or very nearly one-half of what was now left. If they continued the same process for six years longer, the whole of our land would be gone from us for ever. The colony had, as they were aware from the last census returns, lost a large number of its population. Not only had it lost a number equal to the total number of immigrants who came to the colony, but it had also lost 20,000 of its natural increase. What did this mean? It meant that we had reared and educated 20.00 C people in New Zealand to send them away elsewhere. Was it not, then, our duty to endeavour to stem that fatal tide? And was it not, also, as great a duty to carefully husband the 2,800,000 acres of land we had left, and secure, at any rate, that no further large estates would be created out of that area. He proposed, therefore, in the measure which he would submit to Parliament in the forthcoming session? to provide for bona fide settlement. He was quite prepared to give any persou who wanted a freehold pure and simple the right to acquire a certain area of land, but only on condition that such land was improved and not held for speculative purposes. This, then, would give an opportunity of acquiring a freehold to those who wished to do so, but the area wonld be curtailed, though it would be such an area as would enable a family to live in comfort and plenty. He also intended to continue the deferred payment system on conditions of residence only. This would be, another opportunity given to those who were "desirous of obtaining a freehold aud were unable through insufficient mean's to purchase the title right out ; but, as he said before, they would 1 be compelled to settle npenand improve the land. He also proposed to provide perpetual leases for those who wished to have land on that system, and the terms would be such »3 he hoped', would be most popular, but the terms would ba perpetual lease only. So they, would see that he had provided for the monied man to get his freehold if. he so pleased. The man who eventually wished to become" a freeholder Could' also do so, and the man who would content himself with a perpetual lease, in' his (Mr M'Kenzie's) opinion, would be in possession of quite as good a tenure as any other, in existence. ' The small grazing run system, he intended, sho Id remain in force, but it should be surrounded with safeguards which would prevent the areas becoming the property of large owners, and he would also provide for the subdivision of such small runs amongst families. That is if a man wished to take up a small grazing run he could do so, and divide it during his lifetime, or at death, amongst the members of his family. He wonld provide that the large areas of pastoral country whioh was left, and was not' suitable for either of 'the classes of tenure he had referred to, 'should be disposed, of for the future in a manner whioh would be more conducive to the public .interests of the colony. ' Under this tenure to be introduced the land could not possibly be held in such enormous areas as it was at the present time by foreign companies and individuals. , He saw no reason why our pastoral lands should be held by large companies in London, and elsewhere, whioh drew the whole of the proceeds*— except what might be spent on shepherding and shearing and the ordinary expenses of a stationto be spent in London and Great Britain generally. — (Applause.) He also proposed to make such provisions in the Land Bill as would put a stop to dummyism. He was told by a number of people that this was impossible ; that no matter what laws were made in connection with the land .there would always be ways and means available of breaking through them. At anyrate ha thought dummyism could be put a stop to, and he was going to make an honest endeavour to prevent it. One of his chief proposals in that direction would be to make any breaches and evasions of the Land Act a misdemeanour under the act itself. It would be a misdemeanour by both parties — that is, the actual dummy and the person who employs him as each — and he was convinced if that were done a large number of those engaged in this system of dummyism would never try it again. They would be liable to imprisonment without the option of a fine. — (Loud applause.) They were told by a section of the press of the colony that dummyism did not exist to any great extent and that there were very few evasions of the Land Act, and they were told in the last session of the late Parliament by the then Minister for. Lands that it did not exist to any great extent and that there were very few transfers from thoße who had purchased to large companies or private individuals, and he denied on the same occasion that large areas of land in Canterbury had been disposed of during that year whioh went to owners of original large estates. Since he (Mr M'Kenzie) came into 'office he had a return prepared showing what transfers there had been during the last six months. From this return, he found that there were 17 purchasers in Canterbury, all of whom purchased on the Ist of July lost, and each of whom made solemn declarations that the land was for their own special use and benefit, who transferred their area?, amounting to 4086 acres, to one banking institution. He also found that two other selectors, who had also made solemn declarations that the land was for their own use and benefit, who purchased on the 25th March last, had transferred to another banking institution 3466 acres ; and he found that five others who swore that the land was for their sole use and benefit, and who also purchased on the 25th March, had transferred their interest to a mortgage agency company. In the last case the area was 1690 acres. Altogether it

turned ont that a total number of 37 parchasars transferred to two banking companies, one mortgage company, and two individuals an area of 13,587 acres — not by mortgage, but by actual transfer. This return had been made up to sth March last, and how much more might have taken place since then it was very hard to Bay. There could be no doubt of the correctness of that return, as it had been furnished to him by the officers of the department.— (Applause.) He did not think it would be necessary for him to Bay one word more to convince them, after giving them these hard and dry facts, as to the necessity of at once putting a stop to this sort of thing— that is, if the population is to be settled on the lands of the oolony. — (Great applause) What position did they find themselves in at the present time? It was this: that in some .parts of tho colony our land was eatirely gone. This was especially the case in Canterbury and Hawke's Bay. There could be ns more settlement in either of those two provinces unless they were prepared to repurchase some of the estates they had already disposed, of, and this brought them to the question of the necessity of doing so, and in iy"s opinion the time, if it had not already arrived, would very soon come when the colony would have to face the question and buy back some Of these lands, which were at one time the lands of the colony, but which were now held in large estates mostly by companies and monetary institutions.' That being the case, did it not behove' them to be very careful in the manner in which* they should part with the portion of the public estate left to them ? The bill which he intended to introduce would provide for the best use being made of such lands as were lef b. A great deal of noise had been made with regard to the nature of titles to land, but he ventured to say that a long time before the perpetual lease whioh he proposed to give under his new act would expire the whole system of land tenure, not only in New Zealand but throughout the civilised world, would be altered. It would be impossible in his opinion to exclude from the landa of the colony, no matter under what tenure the estates were held, the rising generation.of New Zealand. Because if freeholders themselves will not meet on reasonable terms the demands that will be made upon them by the youths of the colony for land to settle upon it will be the duty of the Government to step in and make such laws as will open the lands to the people of this colony to settle upon. This would be a big battle fought out to the 3 bitter end, as they might depend upon it that all the influence of wealth and the intelligence of the wealthy classes would be arrayed against them. /The battle would be fought not with bayonets of steel, but with* bayonets in the shape' of lead pencils at the polling booths of the colony — (loud and prolonged applause) — and he had no hesitation in predicting which side would win— it would be the youths of the colony, who would stand no nonsense, but would have opened up for themselves land ' whioh was now held in vast areas without occupiers.— (Cheers.) He would now refer to the critiotsms of the press upon I HIS ADMINISTRATION AS MINISTEB OF LANDS. i He.would first refer to some of the criticisms in connection with the Wellington Land Board, in .which he had been accused of snubbing that board.— (Laughter.) Shortly after, his assuming office as Minister of Lands,, it came to his knowledge that a large number of selectors in the Wellington provincial district were not,complying with the law in carrying outT their improvements — improvements which they were .bound to do under the act. In consequence of this he had appointed two surveyors selected by, Mr Percy Smith, the surveyor-general, to investigate, and report to him. as to how the settlement conditions were being complied with in the Wellington land district. On 31st March last the first instalment .came to hand, and showed that out of 263 oases they had reported upon 56 selectors were reported as not having done anything to improve their selections, and a large number of others had only partly complied, whilst out' of the total number there were only some 95 residing on their sections. On receipt of those returns they .were handed over to Mr M'Kay, the ranger for the district, to show cause why these various settlers had not been compelled to carry out the l&w, Mr M'Kay, in his own defence, submitted to him (Mr .M'Kenzie) a return giving: extraots from his reports for the year 1890, and stated that 96 settlers had made no improvements, and that; out of 244 selectors tbete were only 201 residing, and 194 had only .partly complied with the conditions. Mr M'Kay's defence was then submitted to'- the /Commissioner of Crown Lands in Wellington, so that he might make any remarks' npon the report; before any further action, waS takec In reply to this a resolution of the board had been forwarded to him to the following effeot — viz., that the progress of settlement had been very { satisfactory — (laughter)— that the ranger spoke very confidently of the success of settlement in the Wellington land district, and' alleged that dummyism was not apparent to him,* the only combination being in the cases of members of families who wished to secure a better chance of getting the land they required. Mr M'Kay, in a subsequent report, distinctly denied that he had ever made use of the remarks attributed to him by the board. It appeared to him as Minister of Lands, from Mr M'Kay's report to the board, which had never been contradicted so far as the figures were concerned, that the deduction the board bad drawn from that report was not a fair one. In reply to a further communication asking the commi-sinner of Crown l&nds himself as to wbat position ho took up with regard to Mr ?tI K -->'-> r^rl: of 1890, he (Mr M'Kenzie) received from tho board the previous resolution, *ith a saub to the Minister of Lands in the rh-ipe of an inquiry as to why he thouH doubt the same', and he (Mr MK'iizi;) had up to the present time never received any explanation from the board as to how, if, they had none their duty oil Mr M'Kay's report of 1890, it was possible for Messrs Murray and Lowe, the surveyors appointed for the purpose, to find such a deplorable state of things as that set forth in their report. Such being the case, he (Mr -M'Kenzie) considered be was acting within his authority as Minister of Lands add as political head of the department in drawing the attention of the Wellington Land Biord v to the position of affairs, and this was the action on bis part that bad occasioned so much offence to the board and to the Conservative press throughout the colony. The whole of the facts in. connection with this matter were now departmental documents. It would be impossible for the Land Board to pretend that it had done its duty, or to say that his action in drawing their attention to the fact; was wrong or improper. In point of fact he, as Minister, would consider that he had not done his duty if, when tbose facts were brought under his notice, he had not drawn the attention of the board to them — (Applause.) The next question which he would refer to, and npon which ha had baen assailed by the Conservative press was

TUB APPOINTMENT OF MB BITCHIE as chief of the Stock department. He was not goiog to refer to the canards which that section of the press had chosen to drag into that matter, nor would he refer to the scandalous and unbecoming manner in which his own family

bad been brought into public notice. His hearers were perfectly well aware that there was no troth whatsoever in those reports, and it was quite unnecessary for him to contradict them there, but he would refer them to the facts connected with Mr Ritchie's appointment, and thsn the people of the colony would be in possession of the true reason for making the appointment. On taking charge of the Stock department he found it in a most disorganised state. He found that instead of having one head to control the whole department and responsible to the Minister there were no less than six chief inspectors — one in each provincial district— and that, instead of confining their expenditure to the amount of the vote of last session passed for the purposes of the department, they had expended something over £2000 above what was voted by the House. He had found that thousands of pounds were each year spent by those six chief inspectors on keeping down rabbits on Crown lands, without any control whatever from the head office in Wellington. The accounts had been sent up for payment from each district without approval by anyone except the inspectors, and they had simply to be paid without question on their reaching Wellington. He himself, since he became a Minister, had to approve of the payment of accounts Which had never been authorised by the head office. These were solid facts which could be proved by documentary evidence, and could not possibly be disputed. He then saw that it would be impossible to devote sufficient time to manage the whole of the Stock department himself, and came to the conclusion that the proper thing to do would be to appoint a head over the department, who would have his headquarters in Wellington, who would be responsible to the Minister for all his actions, and who would have to consult the Minister before entering into any plans which might cost the colony any considerable sums. Having come to that conclusion, the next thing he did was to select a man for this important position, and on going through the lists of the department he did not find one in whom he could place sufficient confidence to appoint to the office. He then looked outside the department for an able man, and thought of Mr Ritchie. — (Applause.) He did so because he knew Mr Ritchie well. He knew what good work he had done in putting down the rabbits on the Mount Royal estate, and he knew Mr Ritchie to be an energetic, steady, and economical manager of a station, and one ■ who in his (Mr M'Kenzie's) opinion was well qualified to reorganise the Sheep department. — (Applause.) For that reason alone he had offered the' appointment to Mr Ritchie, and he was not at all certain at the time that the offer would be accepted. To have asked Mr Ritchie to leave a comfortable appointment and home such as he bad at Mount Royal without giving him some assurance of a permanency for at least a certain length of time, would have been unfair and unjust, and he (Mr M'Keuzie) might tell them that had he. not done so the offer would not have been accepted. He could safely say that no more pure and honest appointment had ever been made to the civil service of New Zealand. He was appointed solely because he (Mr M'Kenzie^ considered he would be the right man in the right place, and be was confident that after Mr Ritchie .had been allowed a couple of years to show his capability the said appointment would not require any defence on his (the Minister's) part. He would tell them that during the Bhort time Mr Ritchie had held the position he had already effected a clear saving to the colony of at the rate of £2500 per annum over and above . his own salary, and he (Mr M'Kenzie) -bad every confidence that in 12 months hence Mr Ritchie would be able to show a still greater saving. — (Applause.) This in itself would be quite sufficient to prove the necessity for the appointment, and also the qualifications of the man for the position. The only conclusion be could arrive at as to why the appointment should be so bitterly assailed by the ■Conservative press of the colony was that they have probably only been used to appointments of that nature being made for very different reasons than'those'of necessity and qualifications for office. — (Groans.) He now came to

THE STATEMENTS MADE BY. MB SPENCB at Invercargill, and taken up by the Conservative press throughout the length and breadth of the polony. With regard to his own actions as Minister for Lands in the Southland land district, he would not follow the coarse pursued by Mr Spence at Invercargill, or hurl back at Mr Spence the very -bitter language that had been used against himself, but he would take that opportunity of dealing with the charges stripped of the verbiage of abuse in which they were clad. Well, the first charge was that he had ordered Mr Spence's removal from Southland to Westland so that Mr Duncan Campbell could be appointed a Crown lands ranger for that district; secondly, that Mr Mussen was removed to Canterbury so that Mr Campbell could take his place ; thirdly, that he (Mr M'Kenzie) had reduced the Land Office at Invercargill to less than an adequate working staff ; fourth, that he (the Minister) had sent a memo, to the Land Office to make a declaration that they had not perpetrated a swindle; and fifth, the appointment of Mr Campbell to the office of ranger. Now, he would give hard and dry facts, and show at the same time substantial reasons for his action, and facts were "ohiels that winna diDg." — (Laughter and applause ) And when they heard his explanation, it would be for that meeting to judge him First, then, he wonld take Mr Spence's own case, and the reasons which had induced him (the Minister) to remove that officer to Westland. Oq his tour of inspection throughout the colony he got as far as Invercargill, bat he might say before he left Wellington on that tour he had documents sent to him containing complaints of the manner in which the administration of the Crown lands and forest reserves in Southland was being conducted, and one of his objects in visiting Southland was to generally inquire into these matters. And no sooner did he reach Invercargill, than numbers of people waited upon him for the purpose of drawing his attention to the defective administration of the Land department; and the way in which the forest reserves were being dealt with. One of those gentlemen who had interviewed him made such startling accusations against Mr Spence that he (Mr M'KeDzle) had' decided not to hear them unless he was prepared to sign his name to the accusations he was making. This he agreed to do, and Mr Gore (his secretary) took down his statement in shorthand, wrote it out that evening, and the gentleman in question called next day, read the statement over, and eigned his nnme to it H ) (Mr M'Keuzie) took that statement to Mr Spence himself, and asked him to reply to it, which he did, and sent it on to Wellington. But' the reply was not satisfactory to him (the Minister) so he decided that the gentlemen who had made the statements should again be written to from Wellington, and askod if he had any farther proof of tbs charges he had made against Mr Spence. Another letter was received from that gentleman emphasising what he had previonsly stated, and giving dates for some of the statements he had made, at the same time giving the names of o^ber people iv Southland who could prove his accusations. Bat before this inquiry could be completed Mr Spence left the

service. When at Gore recently a copy of a petition which had been forwarded to his predecessor, the Hon. Mr Richardson, was presented to him. In it serious complaints were made with regard to the Croydon bush and its administration under Mr Spence. At the same time a newspaper was handed to him, in which appeared the following advertisement: — "Notice. — Any person or persons found cutting or removiug timber inside survey lines in Croydon Bush on Dryden and Reardon's sawmill reserve will be prosecuted by law. — (Signed) Dry den and Reardon." — an advertisement which was quite illegal, and which had no right to appear in the papers. And this had been done under Mr Spence's very nose in the Southland district. Had he been performing his duty properly as Commissioner of Crown Lands he would at once have contradicted such an advertisement. The whole result of his neglect had been -that the settlers in Southland, not only in the proydon Bush district, but also in other districts, had been prevented from getting what they had a right to by the sawmillers' being allowed to assume, by public advertisement, that they had a legal right to what the law did not allow them. The settlers were practically thrust to one Bide. On asking Mr Spence why he had allowed such an advertisement to appear, ho was told in so many words that he (Mr Spence) was not bound to read the newspapers. He (Sir M'Kenzie) then immediately caused an advertisement to be inserted in the papers by Mr Spence stating that sawmill licenses only gave the privilege to sawmillers to saw timber alone, and that any settler who chose to pay for a license could go to any bush in Southland for posts and rails or firewood, which they bad been prevented previously from doing, and he could say that for this action he had been heartily thanked by a large number of people in Southland.—(Hear, hear, and applause.) A great number of other complaints had been made to, him, too numerous for him to mention that evening, but he had documents in his possession which would bear oat every word he was now saying. One gentleman in particular, he was informed when in Invercargill, could obtain anything he asked for at the hands of the Southland Land Board. He had requested Mr Spence himself to furnish a return of areas held by that gentleman for sawmilling purposes in Southland, and he found that this same gentleman was in possession of 14 selections as sawmilling areas, amounting in all to 2078 acres, with reservations besides made for his own use and benefit of 3790 acres, making a total held in the grasp of this one man of 5868 acres of Southland forest reserves. And he had only three sawmills on the lot.— (Ob, and applause.) Another statement made to him when in Southland was that land with timber upon it to the value of £3 per acre had been sold for the sum of 12s 6d per acre for cash. Into this be had made personal inquiry, and found it to be true. Taking all these things into consideration, he could only come to one conclusion, and that was that it would be in the interests of the colony of New Zealand, and to Mr Spence himself, that he should be removed from that place where he had been for such a length of time. The removal of Crown lands officers from time to time from one portion of the colony to another has always been a recognised thing. Even the judges of the Supreme Court, after they have been a certain length of time in one district, are very often removed. Resident magistrates also are moved. In the same way police officers; and, in fact, every civil servant in the colony, if it is found necessary, and in the interests ef the community, are liable to be moved at any time. — (Applause.) What, then, he bad done was simply to ask Mr Spence to go to Westland at the same salary as he was receiving in Southland, and he (Mr M'Kenzie) had done so for no other reason whatever than that he thought Mr Spence had been quite long enough in the district, and that in. the interests of the colony, and in his own interests, his (removal would be an advantage. Now, that was the reason Mr Spence had been asked to go to Westland.— (Applause.) The reason for Mr Mussen's removal to Canterbury was that, after consultation with Mr Spence himself in Southland, they came to the conclusion that it was necessary to have a forest ranger in Southland. Some years ago, when his predecessor was in office, Mr Campbell, whom he bad just appointed as Crown lands ranger, was dispensed with on the plea of retrenchment. Ten police officers were then appointed forest rangers at a certain sum each per annum, Mr Mussen occupying the position of Crown laada ranger. In looking over the papers in connection with the forests of Southland in the Wellington head office, he ascertained that Mr Campbell, daring his two years of office as Crown lands ranger, had protected the revenue derived from forest reserves in Southland to the extent of an amount equal to his own salary by detecting illegal transactions in connection with those forests. Daring the whole time the ten police officers were performing the same duty there was not one instance of a report by which the revenue of the colony had been increased. In fact, there was no record amongst the papers in Wellington to show that those police officers ever did anything, while the people of Southland were crying out that the forests were being illegally operated upon. He had discussed this question with Mr Spence while in Invercargill, and Mr Spence himself admitted that a ranger was necessary, and recommt nded that one should be appointed. He (Mr M'Kenzie) then gave it as bis opinion that oue ranger would be quite sufficient to do the work in connection with both the Grown lands and the forest reserves as well. Mr Spence demurred to this, and strongly recommended him as Minister to leave Mr Mussen in charge of the Grown lands, and to appoint a special ranger for the forests. Mr Mussen was an elderly man of about 60 years of age, and unable to make long journeys on horseback. While there was nothing to be said against Mr Mussen whatsoever, still in his (the Minister's) opinion he was totally unsuitable to perform both duties. He therefore as an act of kindness to Mr Mussen asked him to remove to Canterbury, where he could do most of his travelling by train. He had not the least desire to transfer Mr Mussen from Southland if he could perform both the duties of Crown lands ranger and ! forest ranger. And if, as Mr Spence had stated, his whole object had been to make way for Mr Campbell he had at that very time the rangership of Canterbury vacant, and also an opening in the Wellington land district, to which that gentleman could have been appointed. And he might add that if he had left Mr Spence ia charge of the Invercargill office with Mr Mussen as Crown lands ranger and appointed another man to look after the forests, (ending Mr Campbell to Wellington or Christchurch, not one word would have been said aboub this Campbell appointment. — (Applause.) The third accusation made against him was that he had reduced the land office at Invercargill to less than an adequate staff to perform the duties required of it. Now, he would ask his audience to bear with him for a few minutes while he gave them a few figures in connection with the Waste Lands Office in Invercargill which could not fail to convince anyone that the action he had taken was the right one in the interests of the colony. He had a return prepared and sent to him , through the bead of the Lands department for

the colony, showing the work done in the Invercargill Lands Office during the month of February last, when peace and quietness reigned supreme in that office — before it was known that any reductions were to be made by that " shepherd from the hillside." — (Loud laughter and applause.) When he told them what that return was those present would see how much dependence could be placed on the statements of Mr Spence with regard to the amount of work done in the office at luvercargill. He found that the total land revenue received for the month amounted to £1251 10s 2d, being at the rate of £52 3s 61 per day. The entries in the books amounted to 501, being a little over 20 entries per day. There were about 14 receipts given per day, and barely four letters received, and slightly over four letters despatched a day. Thirty-nine persons applied for land, being.at the rate of about one applicant and a-half per diem. In addition to this there were a few printed returns to fill in for the month, and there was a monthly meeting of the Land Board, the minutes of which wouM have to be kept. And to do this work required a staff of officers at an expenditure of £2223 per annum — (laughter)^beiag at the rate of £185 5a per mouth, or a percentage of 15 per cent, on the gross takings. In order that he might not do any injustice in this matter, or show it in any false colours, he might say that the month of February did not quite come up to the average amount received for the year, as the total revenue received in Southland for the last year was £19,303 17s 10 J. But even taking that amount, the cost to the colony was at the rate of 12 per cent, per annum. Taking these figures into consideration, aud tho amount of work performed in the Invercargill Land Office, he did not think that any other conclusion could be come to than that the retrenchment was necessary. In fact, it had been a matter of wonder to him as to what the officers in that branch could possibly find to do from morning till night. Just fancy four letters per day received by Mr Spence and his clerks and four letters per day despatched — (laughter) — most of which were in print. And just imagine the nun standing at the ledger of the Invercargill office to receive £53 a day. He ventured to think they could find a storekeeper in Palmerston with a man and a boy who despatched and received more letters and collected more money than was done in the Invercargill Land Office. These were hard facts, and could be proved by documentary evidence in his possession ; and that, so far as he was concerned, was a sufficient answer to the charges of having reduced the Invercargill Land Office to its detriment. — (Applause). Now the next crime he had been accused of was of having issued a circular, as he had already stated, practically asking officers in the various land districts to declare that they had perjured themselves. He would proceed to read the contents of that circular, and leave it to those present to judge. It was dated 13th March 1891 :— From the General Orown Lands Office, Wellington,

to Commissioners of Crown Lands.

Under instru-tlom from the Hon. the Minister of Lands, I have to request you to ask each clerk in the Land Office whether he has ever received declarations under the Land Act signed by a J.P. In blank, whioh were afterwards filled in and used for the purposes of application under the act, the answer of eaoh clerk to be noted opposite his name*. Will you at the same time be good enough to state whether you !bave any personal knowledge of suoh practice having been pursued in your district. — (Signed), H. J. H. Euoit, Undersecretary. Now the reason for issuing that circular was that it had been reported to him that practices' of this sort were carried on, and to show that there were good grounds for suoh a report, two of the officers had stated in their replies that they had seen such applications. His sole object in sending that circular had been to ascertain if such a custom had prevailed amongst the various officers, and, if so, to see that a stop was pat to it in the future. The fact that is was found to exist in one case proved the necessity for the circular being written. — (Loud applause.) In connection with the appointment of Mr Campbell, that officer was neither a friend or relative of his (Mr M'Kenzie's), and he only knew him from the fact that on a previous occasion he was acting in the capacity of Crown lands raoger in Southland, and that it had been reported to him that he was an excellent officer and attended to his work. He had also been told that the reason why Mr Campbell's services were dispensed with was that he had performed his duty too faithfully, and that the Conservative doves of Southland did not approve of his actions in forcing them to so rigidly toe the mark.— (Laughter and cheers.) Well, he asked Mr Campbell whether in the event of his being appointed Crown lands ranger for Southland, be would also undertake the forest reserves duties. Mr Campbell replied that he would be quite able to undertake both offices by giving up his whole time and attention to the work. He (the Minister) then asked Mr Camp* bell if he could produoe any certificates from the Commissioner of Crown Lands under whom he had served. He replied that he had several, which he would forward on to Wellington. He (Mr M'Kenzie) had seen these certificates, and before the appointment was made they were submitted to Mr Percy Smith, the Surveyor-general of the Colony. He would now proceed to read those testimonials. The first was from Mr Walter H. Pearson, the late Commissioner "of Crown Lands for Southland, dated 4th June 1888 :— To Mr D. Campbell, Crown Lands Banger, Inveroargill.

Dear Sir,— As requested by you, I have much pleasure in stating that while I held the position of Commissioner of Crown fands for the district of Southland, New Zealand, you were four years my Crown lands ranger, and in that capacity fulfilled your duties— which were onerous and required considerable moral courage in th°ir discharge— with energy, intelligence, strict impartiality, and thorough efficiency. I am sorry to learn that the exigencies of enforced retrenchment have obliged the Government to part with a servant whose long career in their service is a record of honest and faithful endeavour. Trusting you will succeed wherever you may go, and in whatever you may uadertake, I remain, &c.

(Signed) Waitbb H. Pbabson, Late Commissioner of Crown Lands, Southland, N.Z. The next certificate was from the Crown Lands Office in Invercargill as follows :—

4th June 1888. Memo, for Mr Duncan Campbell, Crown Lands Banger.

I have examined the various books in connection with the Waste Lands Board in the Southland Land dhtriot, and find no marks of any nature entered against Mr Duncan Campbell, Crown land ranger, under the Waste Lands Board here for many years. (Signed) A. M'Nab, Clerk in Land Office. This letter was certified to by Mr Percy Smith as being, to the best of his belief, Mr M'Nab's handwriting. The next certificate was from no less a person than Mr S peace himself. He had no doubt they would all be very curious to hear what was Mr Spence's opinion of Mr Campbell. Now this was what Mr Spence said with regard to Mr Duncan Campbell : —

The baarer, Mr Duncan Campbell, has been Orown lands ranger of Southland for a number of years, and leaves the service owing to the necessity of retrenchment on the part of the Government I have found Mr Campbell to be a willing, capable, and obliging officer, and I trust that he will succeed In getting a situation that will suit him. I will always be glad to hear of his success,

(Signed) J. Speiob, Commissioner of Grown Lauds.

— (Loud and prolonged applause). As Mr Spence was just about to leave the colony, or had left the colony, when he made the charges against him (Mr M'Kenzie), and as it might be said that the genuineness of the signature to that certificate was doubtful, he had taken the precaution of asking Mr Percy Smith (the Surveyor-general), who was familiar with Mr Spence's handwriting to testify to the same, which he did iv the following words :— 11 1 know this to be Mr Spence's handwriting, and that the signature is his." — (Cheers.) Now, he (Mr M'Kenzie) would go so far as to say that the appointment of Mr Campbell was giving satisfaction to the mass of the people of Southland, and to place that fact beyond a doubt he would read a telegram which he had that day received from the members of the Southland constituencies : —

Be your transfer of Mr Spenoe, Commissioner of Crown Lands, to Westland, we quite approve of wbat you did in this matter, and believe that the change was in the belt interests of the colony. Re Mr Oampb It's appointment, we are of opinion JAi&b his removal from office formerly was exceedingly unfair, inasmuoh a* he had been very zealous iv the discharge of hi* duties, and had inconsequence made many enemies We consider bis reappointmeat by you only an aofc of justice to Southland.— J. Kelly, J. Mackintosh, and J. G-. Ward.

That, he thought, would prove beyond a doubt that the appointment was approved of by the people. — (Loud applause.) As those three members, who were responsible to large constituencies, would not be likely to send a telegram of that sorb without regard to the feeling of the larger portion of their electorates. They had now the whole facts in connection with those great charges, and it was for those present to decide whether the strictures passed upon him by Mr Spence and by the Conservative press of the colony were justified or not. He would point out too that Mr Spence was not speaking, when leaving the colony, in the interests of the colony, but he was speaking as a disappointed man — as one who had endeavoured to leave the service with a large sum of money, which he had asked him as Minister of Lands to grant as retiring allowance out of the taxes paid by the people of the colony. Mr Spence was asked to remove to Westland and not to leave the service. He thereupon asked leave to retire, and had be (Mr M'Kenzie) wished to be severe be could have ordered Mr Spence to Westland nr resign, so that had he resigned he wonld not have been entitled to one sixpence. And what was the retiring allowance that Mr Spence demanded ? Why, he asked to be compensated for his General Government services, bis provincial services, and at the same time applied for six months' leave of absence on fnll pay — making a total sum asked for by Mr Spenoe of £1180. And io connection with this he would read the Surveyor-general's memorandum of advice to himself on the subject :—

Mr Spence asks that he may retire on compensation rather than be removed to Westland, and that be may have six months' leave. Mr Spenoe wonld be entitled to compensation for bis services sines abolition. This would amount to about £540— that is for his General government service ; but he seems to me to ask that bis provincial service be Included, This would mean about £955 for both services. "The Civil Service Act 1886" limits leave of absence on retirement to three months. I would ask your favourable consideration in allowing Mr Spence to be compensated and have three months' leave.- (Signed) 8. Percy Suits. 1/6/91. He did not of bis own accord decide the matter, but submitted it to his colleagues in Cabinet, and he would read the Cabinet's decision :—: —

Mr Spence will be allowed to retire with compensation—viz., £540. Provincial service cannot be allowed, nor can leave of absence be granted.— let May 1891. This, then, was the man who had endeavoured to defame him (Mr M'Kenzie) throughout the length and breadth of the colony. The man who had asked for £1180 of public money, but who only received £540. And if he (Mr M'Kenzie) had been guilty of any error of judgment in this matter it was that he had been too lenient with Mr Spence. He had granted him £540 when he was in no way compelled by law to do^so. He did so on the strength of the recommendation of the head of the department, and he was glad to take that opportunity of saying that the colony might be prond to have such a man as Mr Percy Smith at the head of that department, a gentleman who had shown daring a most trying time when dispensing with so many of the civil servants a humane and kind heart. Were he (Mr M'Kenzie) to occupy his present position for one month, one year, or whatever length of time, he would always remember with pleasure bis association with Mr Percy Smith, the Surveyor-general of New Zealand. — (Applause.) Before sitting down he would like to refer briefly to the bitter animosity shown towards him by the Daily Times. That paper, for 20 solid years, had bitterly opposed him. Notwithstanding that fact they (his constituents) had for that same 20 years returned him to every position of trust it was In their power to offer. — (Applause.) That in itself was sufficient to show that.the opinions of the proprietors of the Otago Daily Times had little weight in the Waitaki district. — (Applause.) Moreover, as a guide of public opinion, that paper had always been entirely in the wrong. He had been accused by the Times of putting his own relations and personal friends into the civil service. He had not a single relation at the present moment in the civil service. If there was one thing he could pride himself upon, it was that his hands were clean in that direction, and they (his friends and supporters) knew it. When he first commenced his political career in that district, settlement did not extend beyond two miles from Palmerston. It now extended 35 miles, and without fear of appearing egotistical, he might say that he had done his share in opening up that district.— (Cheers.) The Otago Daily Times had always opposed him, but his constituents knew whether he had been a friend of the settler or an enemy. He had never wavered in his resolution to open up the land for settlement, and very often his endeavours were to his own personal disadvantage. So long as the Daily Times was owned by the present proprietors, so long would they oppose him in the performance of his duty. If on any future occasion that journal took to praising him, it would be time for the settlers to look minutely into hi 3 actions. They had now heard all he had to say that evening, and while thanking those present for the patient hearing they had accorded him, he would leave himself entirely in their hands.

Mr M'Kenzie resumed his seat amid load and continued applause.

QUESTIONS.

Mr Gii-arotra asked how it was that Mr M'Goun, in Dunediu, was retired.

Mr M'Kenzie said it was simply because his services were not wanted.— (Applause.) Mr GiLMOUit further inquired if there was any possibility of getting justice from the Railway Commissioners in the matter of rates.

Mr M'Kenzie replied that the only way to do that was to abolish the Railway Commissioners. He was afraid it 'was impossible to do that at the present time, as even if a bill passed the Lower House, he was afraid it would be thrown out in the Upper House. Speakiug seriously, he thought the commissioners should be allowed to remain for the term of office for wliich they were appointed, but he atrongly disapproved of differential rates.

Mr W. Muhcott (of Hampden) moved— " That this meeting has every confidence in the Hon. John M'Kenzie (Minister of Lands) as our representative and in the -Government of which he is a member, and that the actions of the present Government since it came into office are fully approved of by the Waitaki constituency, and merit the confidence of the country at large." In speaking to the motion, he said he had on the two last occasions opposed Mr M'Kenzie, but after his defence to-night he felt quite justified in moving the resolution. After the scurrilous attacks made by the press upon the Minister for Lands, he thought that every honest settler in Waitaki should support him. He thought Mr M'Kenzie deserved the warmest support of every elector in the district and colony. , " .

Mr Morton, of Kakanui, seconded the motion* whioh was carried unanimously, amid ' load applause.

The meeting broke up with three cheers for Mr M'Kenzie and three groans for the Otago Daily Times.