UNIVERSITY COUNCIL.

Otago Witness, Issue 1973, 12 September 1889, Page 2

UNIVERSITY COUNCIL.

A special meeting of the University Council was held on Thursday afternoon for the purpose of considering the position with regard to the prospecting operations on the Barewood run and Museum reserve. There were present : The chancellor (the Rev. Dr Stuart), the vicechancellor (Mr Justice Williams), Drs Hocken and Burns, Messrs J. M'Lean, J. Roberts, E. B Cargill, and R. L. Stanford. Mr F. Ri Chapman attended to advise the couucil, and Mr Hoskiug to represent Mr Pogson, who was also present.

Mr Hosking explained the terms upon which Mr fogson was prepared to meet the council it respect of the Barewood run. Hu said chat Mr Pogson did not consider he should give any rignts to "jumpers" who asserted their titles agaiubt entitled persons. Apart from that, Mr Pogson was ready to meet the council in any way that was just aud reasonable. The line of the reef would cub about 2000 acres off the run, and what Mr Pogson was prepared to do, if the University Council thought the run bhould be opened for prospecting, was to surrender this part of it. They could easily come to terms, but there would be some details to be discussed as to what was to be done afterwards. For instance, Mr Pogson would like to have reserved at his own risk the right of grazing over the part surrendered, and it would probably come to be a question whether that part should not be fenced off from the rest of the run. Mr Cahgill abked if Mr Pogsou was able to say whether by cutting off this laud they would out off all thai vvab likely to be prospected. Mr Hoskiug said that the pegging-out at present was confined to this area, but he believed that ptoplo would peg out auy thing at the pres>euo time. It might be taken that 2000 acreti were at present affected; and Mr Pogson was prepared to surrender that portion of the run, aud to meet the council iv any other way tnau was thought reasonable ; but as for the " jumpers " ihey ought not to be allowed to assert their rights against bonajide claimholders, aud Mr Pogson would like the council's assent to his acting iv this matter so that the "jumpers" might not be allowed to go on the place to the prejudice of others.

The Chancellor : The first thing is, will the council accept the suggestion of Mr Pogson ? It means a lots of rental to us which we can ill afford;

Mr M'Lean observed that the affair might possibly turn out after all to be but a flash in the pan.

Mr Hosking said that if the field turned out a " fizzle " Mr Pogson would be quite willing ■to take the land back.

Mr Roberts remarked that before agreeing to surrender, Mr Pogson thought he ought to have some say as to who was entitled to the claims. He (Mr Roberts,) was told that the man who really discovered the field had had his own claim " jumped." The man made application here, but obtained no eatisfaction. He also made application to the warden at Nasebj, but again got no sa isfaction ; and he confided his discovery to another man, who made use of the information for his own purpose.

Mr Hosking said he had been told that the person who discovered the field sent the man to whom he confided the fact to see the University Council, and the latter wrote to him that the council could do nothing, and in the meantime occupied the time in pegging out the land. Mr Pogson thought that the best way would be for him to treat as trespassers those who had been "jumping," or he would be willing — and the speaker thought they would all be willing — to refer the matter to an impartial tribunal.

The Chancellor: Will it be a right and proper thing for us to leave that to Mr Pogson to determine ?

Mr Hosking said that Mr Pogson would determine it in only one way, by putting the 11 jumpers " off the land.

Mr Pogson said, he would much prefer that the matter be left to an impartial party. The Chancellor : Leaving that question, we'll now consider whether he ought to accept Mr Pogson'a offer or whether we ought to regulate the applications for prospecting claims , and locate them as we think righr, and leave the giving up of the run in abeyance for two or three months.

Mr Carqill warned the council that they would have to be very careful in dealing with the relative rights of persons who had got licenses. He understood that what the council had done was to issue a succession of permits to prospect the ground, to be followed perhaps by some other process in the future, but the couacil was not committed beyond that. The question was then raised, how far had Mr Pogson's rights been interfered with by these persons going on the land? It was necessary for them to meet Mr Pogson in a fair way, so that he might not be disturbed in bis lease by the action of the council, and he thought the best way would be merely to accept the surrender of part of the lease.

In the course of a conversational discussion, it was stated that the first seven licenses that were issued granted leave to prospect over areas not exceeding 60 acres, that the holders of the susequent licenses were confined to 30 acres, and that in the event of Mr Pogson's suggested surrender being accepted, the rent of tho run would have to be reduced by £120.

Mr Stanford : How would it buit Mr Pogson if he were to name a sum and the details, and leave the settlement of all disputed matters to the warden or to Mr Simpson, who is a very old mining warden ?

Mr Hosking .said he represented other interests than Mr Pogson's, and he would not like to commit himself in all respects to the proposal to determine the matter in that way.

The Chancellor thought that Mr Pogson's offer was a very fair one. Mr Hosking said there was another point. The Flat stream ran through the property, aud the disposal of it should be subject to Mr Pogson's right to water during two months of the year for scouring purposes.

The Chancellor: Well, Mr Chapman, a question crops up that vitally affects the university. How are we to recoup ourselves for the £120? Mr chapman replied that if the council adopted the rent of J.Os per acre per annum charged by the Government for mines they would have £90 at once from three of the 60-acre claims. If all the claims — 23 in number — that were applied for were taken up, the council would make a good thing out of it. Mr Stahfoed : All the claims that are taken up would amount to about £450 a year. The Chancellor; And if there is no gold Mr Pogson takes the' land back. Mr M'Lban j In the meantime do we allow

the men to go to work without paying anything?

Mr Chapman said that £2 2s had to be paid for a license and £15 had to be paid on the land being taken up.

The Vice-Ohancellor asked if any sums of £15 had been received yet. The Chancellor: No; nobody has received a lense yet.

Mr Hosking suggested, with a view to some finality, that the council should insist upon the payment of the £15 within a month or the claims be considered as abandoned.

I he Chancellor pointed out that the council had adopted a regulation that the prospecting licenses should be for three months.

Mr Hoskiug said, with regard to the allotment of the claims, that he would advise his clients to allow the matter to be referred to Mr Simpson, who understood mining law, but the " jumpers " would have to consent also.

The Vice-Chancellor : But suppose the " jumpers " rio not consent. Could the Uuiversity Couucil treat them as trespassers, Mr Chapman ? Is fcuat our legal position ?

The Chancellor thought they might reckon upon the " junipers " submitting to an impartial tribunal.

Mr Chapman : They will have to.

Mr Stanford said that he was acting for one of the men who had been alluded to as a " jumper," and a very different story was told by him. He (Mr Stanford) would answer for his submitting to an impartial tribunal.

The Chancellor asked, in the case of the men refusing to refer the matter to Mr Simpson — what then ? Mr Chapman : The licenses can be revoked. The Chancellor : Have we a right to do that after issuing licenses for three months?

Mr Chapman : No leases should be issued till all the claims are allotted by Mr Simpson. Mr Cabgill: What about dealing with any other applications for licenses ?

Mr Chapman : Mr Simpson can hold a court. (To the chancellor) : You had better add this — "Future applications to be forwarded to Mr Simpson." The Vice -Chancellor: Would not the difficulty be got over by getting the Government to take over the 2000 acres as a goldfield ?

Mr Chapman : No doubt it would, but Ido not suppose you would get the revenue.

The Vice-Chancellor supposed they would get a share. Mr Roberts did not think it would be to the interest of the University Council to surrender a portion of the run to the Government. If the reefs were all over the laud they might surrender the whole to the Government.

Mr Hoskiug mentioned that there was a lot of alluvial mining on the place also. The Chancellor : Without a license ? Mr Ho&king : Yes. The Chancellor : Why does not Mr Pogson deal with the miners for trespass ?

Mr Pogsou said he did not know that the men had not licenses from the University Council. The Chancellor : They got none from us. Mr Oargill said the council must take care not. to apueir to obstruct the method of working the land for gold.

The Chancellor : Would these licenses affect the Museum reserve?

Mr Hosking said he represented interests in the Museum reserve also, aud in that case there was no desire to stand in the way of the Universit}' Council — the matter was on practically the same lines as in the case of the Barewood run.

The Chancellor : Wo have an application before us now for water rights for crushing machinery on the Museum reserve.

Mr Hosking : It will be necessary to arrange with the occupier of the Museum reserve what portion is to be appropriated.

Mr Chapman stated that the legal position of the Museum reserve was capable of being made different from the position of the Barewood run, inasmuch as the Government by proclamation might virtually take the right to allow mining on it, but at present so far as he could see there waa no legal difference.

Mr Stanford : Regarding applications for more licenses for the Museum reserve

Mr Chapman suggested that the regulations respecting the Barewood should apply.

Mr Hosking : Subject to an arrangement with the tenant as to the part likely to be required. The Chancellor observed that they could not do anything in the matter until they obtained a report.

Mr Roberts said that so far as he knew about the Museum reserve part of the line of reef that was marked out at present was not on the reserve.

In reply to Mr Hosking, The Registrar (Mr Mansford) said that seven applications had been received to prospect on the Museum reserve.

Mr Hosking suggested that the prospecting should be subject to a condition to save the righta of the council— to enable the council to be paramount in any question that might arise. The Chancellor said that future applications would have to be sent to Mr Simpson. He would suggest the appointment of a small committee to obtain the information they required. Ths buggestion waa adopted, and Drs Burns and Hocken and Mr Cargill were appointed the committee. The question of Mr Simpson's remuneration was relegated to the committee and the solicitor.

THE CENSURE ON DR BLACK.

A long letter was received from Professor Black asking the council to reconsider their resolution of August 15, 1888, which declared him guilty of a grave error and of an act of discourtesy in his acceptance of the office of president of the chemistry and mineralogy department of the Australian Society for the Advancement of Science without having previously obtained the permission of the council.

The Chancellor said that Professor Black felt i.he censure very much. The professor said that it took away his heart from his work and weakened his influence with his class. In his (Dr Stuart's) humble opinion, he thought that if the discipline had been required it had had a salutary effect.

Mr Robekts thought it a pity that Professor Black had written the letter to the papers last week that he did write.

The Cg:/kNCEi,poj^ was very sorry of that too, especially as the council had nothing to do witb the " capping " ceremony t but were present as guests.

Mr Stanford thought that in the letter referred to Professor Black made great fun of his being censured.

The Chancellor: The only question is whether the thing having entirely passed away we ought not to expunge the sentence.

Mr Stanford : What would you say, that he is uot guilty ?

The Vice-chancellor remarked that the censure was subsequently modified. Dr Hocken said that after Dr Black's return, from Sydney the council passed' a resolution acquitting him of intentional discourtesy. The Chancellor : I feel that I was perhaps the means of getting him into the difficulty. I told him that I was sure there would be no serioua objection so long as he*' 'got permission

Dr Burns : You spoke as an individual.

The Chancellor : Yes ; but doubtless he was encouraged by what I said to accept the invita-

tion. Certainly I assured him that I was only speaking as an individual.

Mr Stanford did cot think that the chancellor had in any way got Dr Black into the difficulty. Supposing Dr Black had come to the University Council at the time he accepted the invitation, there would have been no trouble.

Mr Roberts moved, and Mr Stanford seconded, thab the council should hold a special meeting to consider the matter.

Mr M'Lean thought that Dr Black should have been satisfied with the resolution exonerating him from intentional discourtesy. Mr Oargill said he had expressed a strong feeling at the time that it was a pity they did not drop the matter after Professor Black had made his explanation, because it was injurious to the university that there shonld be anything like a stigma attaching to one of the professors. Mr Stanford was inclined to stick by the resolution, aud he would like to ask if again at the beginning of the present session Professor Black was not absent for two or three days.

The Chancellor explained that Professor Black could not get up from Stewart's Islaud. Mr Stanford : But he should have beeu here a week before.

Dr Burns said that in that case the Minister of Mines was making what was practically an official inspection, and Dr Black's presence at Stewart's Island at the time was an act of courtesy.

Tbe Chancellor thought that the time had now come when they should have a visitation of the university by outsiders, to see whether they were going on with the right lines. Some of the students, for instance, were of the opinion that the long term was a failure and an injustice. He would like, in the interests of the professors and students, in the interests of the council — for he did not know of any body of men that had rendered such gratuitous service to education as that council had done in the last two years, — and ip the interests of tbe community, to apply for a visitation of the university, and in that case the Governor would appoint suitable persons to take evidence and to ace whether the plans might in some respects be improved. The New College in Edinburgh was visited every five years by an independent outside body.

Mr Stanford asked if the chancellor would mind leaving that matter over till the next meeting. The Chancellor said he did not wish a decision then, but he was of opinion that the thing should not be lost eight of.

The Vice-chancelloh said it wa<? the council's business to find out the proper way of governing the institution and not to ask other people — (Laughter.) By this time the attendance had dwindled down to the chancellor, the vice-chancellor, Messrs M'Lean and Cargill, and these not constituting a quorum the business had to stand over.