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PARLIAMENTARY NEWS.
Wellington, 23rd November. DEFENCE. I am in a position to give you some important information relative to certain changes which ate about to be made in defence matters. Captain Falconer Jwill take charge of the Submarine Defence department on the lab of next month. His headquarters will be at "Wellington, and he has already taken up his quarters here. It is intended to concentrate the j torpedo corps now stationed at the ports of Dunedin, Lyttelton, and Auckland at Wellington for the purpose of undergoing a course of drill. The various engineer corps will also be concentrated here for the same purpose. Mining operations on a large scale are to be carried on Large mine fields are to be laid down at Worser's Bay, near Fort Ballance, and a number of experiments will be made in torpedo practice. General Schaw's report on the fortifications will not be ready for a few days yet. It will deal extensively with the entire question of defence, and it will recommend a complete reorganisation of volunteer and permanent militia field forces. PRIVATE SCHOOLS. A return showing the number of private (schools in the colony and the number of children attending them has been laid on the table ot the House. The following are the numbers ot schools in the various districts mentioned and scholars attending each :-Auckland, 64 schools, 2618 scholars ; Taranaki, 16 schools, 295 scholars ; Hawke's Bay, 12 schools, 589 scholars; Wellington 42 schools, 2018 scholars; Marlborough, eight schools, 274 scholars; Nelson, 23 schools, 961 scholars ; Westland, 13 schools, 883 scholars ; Canterbury, 64 schools, 2769 scholars; Otago, 46 schools, 2090 scholars. The total number of private schools in the colony is 288, and the total number of scholars attending them is 12 497. Of the above pupils 8263 attended Roman Catholic schools, and of these 7574 attended schools having over 50 pupils each. GOVERNMENT RAILWAYS BILL. I The new bill for the management of Govern- j meut railways introduced by the Hon. Mr Mitchelson (Minister for Public Works) is a j formidable measure, comprising 85 clauses. The j act is to come into force on a day proclaimed by the Governor, which for all purposes Bhall be deemed to be the commencement of this act. Part I deals with the Railway Commissioners, who ahall be three in number, and who shall be a body corporate by the name of the New Zealand Railway Commissioners, and shall be capable ot suing and being sued. The Governor-m-Council shall, after the passing of the act, apnoint these commissioners, who, subject to the provisions of the act, shall hold office for a term of five years. An extraordinary vacancy in the office is to be filled up by the Governor-ia-Council for the balance of his predecessor s term The commissioners are to be eligible tor reapp'ointment for a term to be then fixed by the Governor-in-Council not exceeding five years The Governor-in-Council may appoint au acting deputy in case of the illness, &c. of any commissioner, who shall hold office during K ood behaviour, but may be removed for misbe- j Uaviour-when the General Assembly is sitting, by resolution of each House, and when it is not sitting, by writing under the hand of the Governor, or addressed to the Minister, suspending the commission ; a statement of the cause ot suspension to be furnished to Parliament within aeven days of the opening of session. A com- ( miesioner shall be deemed to have vacated his I office if he engage in any employment outside | the duties of his office, or in case of bankruptcy, or a composition, or absence for 14 days without leave, or incapacity to perform his duties, or being concerned or interested in any contract or agreement made by or on behalf, of the commis- j /oners. One of the commissioners shall be auuointed by, the Governor-in-Council as chief commissioner, and he shall also fill up any vacancy. ; The salaries and allowances to commissioners ace left blank, to be determined by the Assembly. Two commissioners shall form a quorum, but in case or a difference of opinion there must be a full meeting. Any commissioner concerned or interested in any contract or agreement made by or oa behalf of the commissioners shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding £500 or three years' imprisonment, or to both such punishments and loss of oflice. Part II relates to the general cowers and duties of the commissioners. Railways are vested in commissioners, and they succeed to all the powers vested in Minister and to all the obligations. The Governor may empower the commissioners to construct railways, such rail* wave to be deemed vested in them ; the Governor or Minister to have no control over the railways, and they may delegate their powers to the commissioners by Order-in -Council So that tue amendment may have full effect, the commissioners are to maintain the ranways and works iv a state of efficiency, reconstruct or add to railways, fix sites for stations, and may apply hi writing to the Minister for such sums of money to be issued on imprest as may be necesSryTor additional rolling stock, &c All fees received from refreshment licenses to be the revenue of the commissioners for purposes of the act The commissioners may make, alter, and make b y e-laws,araong other matters, for imposing differential rates and charges for the carriage of passengers or goods upon any railway and for the issue and prevention of abuse of Tree passes. The several lines of telegraphic communication belonging to the commissioners arc vested in them, and may be used by them, so fafas'is consistent with the efficient working o? railways, for the transmission of messages by ?he public. The commissioners and the Post-master-general are to have power to make conSatsi" relation to postal and telegrap.services • differences to be determined by the Governor-in-Council. The commissioners may make contracts in connection with the working of railways. All moneys appropriated by pUament for the maintenance, working, or management of railways or partial reor duplication to be vested m "The Public Revenues A7fc 1878" to apoly. The commissioners are iotato security from officers and employes. An emlfe taking fees is to lose his office and be SR a misdemeanor. Persons employed J f£i railway guilty of misconduct, drunk on aws of the commissioners through wilful or mallSous neglect, or imperilling human life or limb ShP liable with any abbettors, to wx months' opting of the session also an estimate of receipts and e ? penchture .for the year ending 31afc March in each y,eae. The comSsionersVay appoint and remove e£pU>ye3 and make regulations respecting them. All appointments shall be made to the lowest grade iv each of the various branches of the railway Service, for a period not exceeding 12 months m <*eh ewe, on probation only. Tfce conjmiswopera
may appoint without examination persons poßsessed of special qualifications. Each appointee J8 to effect an insurance on his life or agree to a deduction prescribed, and the insurance whilem the service Bhall not be assignable. Vacancies shall be filled by seniority, and no officer shall be passed over unless the head of his branch in writing so advise the commissioners; the rule only to apply to permanent employes. The commissioners are to have power to give or reduce the rank of any employe for breach of bye-laws or misconduct, and to suspend him for a period not exceeding six months without salary, or may fine or dismiss him. Their decision is to be final, but they may hear an appeal. An employe guilty of felony or an infamous offence, or act of bankruptcy or .composition, or assignment of salary, is to forfeit office. The commissioners may reinstate a bankrupt sfficer iv the absence of fraud. Recorded particulars of the railway service are to be kept. Certain accidents on the railways are to be reported to the Minister ; and the Governor may direct a formal investigation, and witnesses will be liable to a penalty of £10 a day for failure to attend. Railway property is not to be subject to rates. Actions are to be brought against the commissioners within six months of the act complained of. Clause 84 provides for a tender ol accounts where any irregularity occurs or other wrongful proceeding in the execution of this act or by virtue of its authority is committed ; and such tender of a sufficient "amount, if made before an action is brought, shall bar recovery in any such action. The act may be pleaded in bar if the matter or thing complained of is done under the authority and in execution of the act. RAILWAY RATBS> Fully two hours' time was devoted this afternoon to a discussion on the rates charged by the Railway department for the conveyance of produce. The subject cropped up through a question asked by Mr Ward relative to the high rates charged for the conveyance of wool on the Southern railways. It appears that the rates charged from Wairuna and intermediate stations to Dunedin and Port Chalmers are lower than those charged proportionately from the stations in question to the pore of the Bluff. Mr^Vatd's object in bringing the matter up was to obtain a similar concession for Southland to that made in the case of Dunedin and Port Chalmers The Minister's reply not appearing satisfactory, Mr Ward moved the adjournment of the House in order to dilate on the injustice to which, m nis opinion, the Southland people were subjected. Mr Pyke followed Mr Ward in a similar strain, and read a telegram which he had just received, in which the sender stated that the waggoners were carrying wool at much lower rates than the Railway department. Mr Pyke also asserted that so far back as 14 years ago the waggoners .carried wool cheaper than the railway rates at present. He warned the Government that if they persisted in keeping up the present rates they might as well " let the railways go for rabbit runs." The Minister was not now "impeded by an obstinate officer, and he could work a great reform in the railways if he were so minded. Mr Mackenzie (Olutha) endorsed Mr Pyke's contention, and cited the case of Mr Smith, of Greenfield, as an illustration of the suicidal policy pursued by the Railway department. Mr Valentine emphasised the remarks of the previous speakers, ana pointed out that last year the waggoners brought produce from Switzers to Invercargill at a much lower rate than the Railway department could have taken the same stuff. Mr Downie Stewart also adduced evidence to prove that the rates were much too high. Messrs Marchant, Samuel, E. Richardson, Wilson, Gpwas, and Dr Newman joined in the discussion. Mr Cowan spoke warmly in support of a railway board, and Dr Newman stated that the North Island was unfairly treated in having to pay 25 per cent, more than the South Island for railway carriage. Mr Duncan instanced the hardship which was inflicted on the settlers of the Oamaru district through the obstinancy of the Railway department. He stated that during the last potato season no less a quantity that 77,358 sacks of potatoes were brought into Oamaru, and he believed the greater portion of the produce mentioned did not arrive by railway but by waagona and carts. The discussion was brought to a close without eliciting any promise from the Minister of Railways further than that the entire question would receive the earnest attention of Government as soon as PoSSlbl< THE MIDLAND RAILWAY. The committee have brought up their report, which will reach you through the Press Association, The principal alterations and amendments made in original contracts are as follows :— Clause 2 has been altered to the effect that the colony has only the power to retain so muoh of the 750,000 acres reserved as may be required for bona jidt mining purposes. In clause 8 a very important amendment has been made. It provides that the oolony shall be safe from any money guarantee whatever. In this connection it may be stated that the opinions of the At-torney-general and Solicitor-general have been obtained, and those gentlemen think that to make the guarantee absolutely safe the addition of some more words is necessary. This will be brought up in the House to-morrow. Power is given to the company to select timber instead of land if they so wish it— that is, they can cut the timber off and leave the land. Provision is also made that the company can be sued in the colony if any cases requiring litigation should occur. The company are required to let two contracts of the value of £60,000 eachoue to commence at Springfield, and the other at Bel^rove. The colony will then advance them £30,000 worth of land. The Government retain the right of objecting to any selections the company may make for a term not exceeding two months after the selections have been made. Provision is made that the company shall complete their selection three months after the year of grace allowed by the contract. There are several other alterations of minor importance, but as the whole affair will be threshed oub to-morrow, it is not necessary to dwell upon them. THE PEACE PIPE. The action of the Premier this afternoon in moving that to-morrow be given up to the Midland Railway discussion, and Friday set apart for private members, indicates that he does not intend to carry out the threat made by him yesterday relative to testing the strength ot the House on tho question of Protection. It is rumoured that himself and Sir Julius are about to smoke the Cabinet pipe of peace, but how long the truce will continue is a matter of uncertaint ' V> QUESTIONS. Mr MARCHANT aakod the Colonial Secretary if the Government will make inquiry as to whether the existence of cancerous cattle is dangerous to health ; and if medical men are of that opinion, whether the Government will consider what steps should be taken to deal with the qU The°Hon. Mr HISLOP said the Government would make inquiry into the matter. # Mr JOYCE asked the Premier how is it intended to increase the school age under the Education Act to six years and yet make provision so that no country school shall be closed in consequence of this change. The Hon. Me ?ISHER said the Government
would endeavour whenever possible to preyem county schools being closed owing to the raising of the school age. Mr MARCHANT asked the Minister foi Public Works if after full consideration he car see his way to order the use of firewood on locomotives on one or more of the Government railways. The Hon. Mr MITOHBLSON said he founc from inquiry that the use of firewood would b« as expensive as coal, and no other than New Zealand coal was now being used on railways. Captain RUSSELL asked the Minister oi Lands whether he will insert a clause in the Land Bill for the purpose of allowing old soldiere and sailors who left her Majesty's service for the purpose of settling in the colony, or military settlers who, from ignorance or other causes, failed to avail themselves of their privileges, to take up land similar in area to the provisions of the "Land Act 1885" relating to occupation of land under deferred payment. The Hon. Major ATKINSON was afraid the Government could nofc do this in their Land Bill, but he hoped to be able to produce a bill before the end, of the session to deal with those claims. Mr VALENTINE asked the Minister oi Lands whether he will incorporate in his Land Act Amendment Bill a clause providing for the abolishment of land boards and school commissioners. The Hon. G. F. RICHARDSON said it was intended to deal with the abolition of land boards in the Land Act, but not to abolish school commissioners. Mr WARD asked the Minister for Public Works if he will favourably consider a similar concession prorata for the conveyance of wool to the ports of Southland to that provided from Wairuna and intermediate stations to Dunedin and Port Chalmers. The Hon. Mr MITCHELSON said the railway reductions already made were as far as the Government could go. Mr WARD moved the adjournment of the House to ventilate the matter, and a lengthy discussion followed. ' Ms BRUCE asked the Government whether they will make inquiries to ascertain if the custom of opening small country post offices between the hours of 7 and 8 p.m. is really a public requirement, and whether in the event of its being ascertained^ that it is in some instances not a necessity in the public interests, they will in those cases discontinue the practice. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the matter was under consideration. He would take steps shortly to remedy it. Mr M'KENZIE asked the Colonial Secretary whether the Government will this session introduce a bill to enable county councils aud town district boards to agree as to the maintenance oi main roads within town districts used as county roads. The Hon. Mr HISLOP said the Government did not intend bringing in a bill this session for this purpose. Mr FULTON asked the Government whether their attention has been directed to the character of many so-called glove fights, and whether they will take steps to put an end to them. , , The Hon. Mr FERGUS said the police had no power to interfere in this matter, but he was nformed that nothing took place at those fights to call for the interference of the police. Mr SEDDON asked the Premier whether he •will this session introduce a bill to remove the legal restriction which at the present'time exists and which prevents the public trustee from finally dealing with intestate estates until after 12 months from the time of death. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the question was a serious one, and he hoped next session to be able to legislate in that direction. Mr SEDDON asked the Minister of Lands whether&e will in the Land Bill introduce a clause giving the right to lessees now holding perpetual leases in mining districts to convert those leaseholds into freeholds, and whether he will insert a clause to repeal the provision m the present Land Act which prevents leases in mining districts being converted into freeholds. The Hon. G. F. RICHARDSON said the matter would be dealt with in the Land Bill. Mr JOYCE asked the Government if it is their intention to abolish education boards and school committees in the several educational districts of the colony. The Hon. Mr FISHER said there was no intention to abolish either. THE MIDLAND RAILWAY CONTRACT. Captain RUSSELL brought up the report of the Select Committee on the Midland Railway. The report was as follows :— That in. the opinion of the committee a new contract should be prepared embodying the several provisions of the acts of 1884 and 1886, the contract of 1885 legalised by the act of 1888, and the further contract amending the contract of 1885 ; and that an act should be passed empowering the Governor to execute such new contract. Such new contract should, so far as practicable, contain the provisions in the same words as are used in the said act and con> tracts; and where any deviationis necessary in order to render the new contract consistent throughout, the alteration required should be to the same purport and effect aB the draft contract hereunto annexed. The contract appended to the report occupied five closely printed pages. DUTY ON COAL. Mr FISH moved— "That the debate on the question ' That in the opinion of the House ifc is desirable and necessary that an import duty of not less than 2s 6d per ton be imposed on all coal imported into the colony from other countries' be further adjourned for a fortnight." He said such an important question should be discussed in a full House.— This was carried by 46 to 28. Mr REEVES (Inangahua) then moved—" That the debate be adjourned for a month." Mr THOMPSON (Marsden) thought those who were in favour of encouraging local mii dusfcry should now show their hands by voting I for this duty on coal. He trusted the House would not allow this matter to be shelved, so that some guide might be given to the Government when preparing their tariff next session. . Mr MONK supported adjournment, as by carrying the motion ib would injure the coal industry, and would also diminish the exports of the colony, which were already in a languishing condition. He did not look upon the development of coal as an encouragement to local industries. Mr FISHER considered Mr Monk must be interested in the shipping trade, as the whole of his arguments were in the direction of making shipowners rich at the expense of the colony. He could not consider the hon. gentleman a Protectionist at all after the remarks he had just made. He hoped the debate would only be adjourned for a fortnight. After a long discussion, the adjournment of the debate for a fortnight was carried by 36 to 35. Mr PYKE said the debate that had just taken place was most irrelevant. It was simply talking against time. He said the only object of the present motion was to compel intercolonial steamers to use colonial coal. He complained bitterly that both the Gold -Duty Reduction Bill and the Otago Central Railway Bill had been blocked out by the discussion on the adjournment of a debate which had developed into a Protective discussion,
I Wellington, 24th Novembeb, I THE LAND FOR THE MIDLAND I RAILWAY. I Sir George Grey some days ago moved for a return showing the names of tenants of^ the Crown, and the extent of each of their holdings, who hold lands in any portion of the landsnerth of the railway which it is proposed to give up to the Midland Railway Company. Bia object was to show the interests involved. As the return was not laid on the table to-day at the outset of the discussion on the Midland Railway Committee's report, he again inquired for its production, and it was circulated to-night. The return shows : — Licensee. Arsa. Bent. A. and N. Z. Mortgage Company ... 10,180 £371 H. P. M. Aynaley ... ... 164 8 Aynßley and Archer ... ... 6,840 fr> Bank of New South Wales ... 36,690 650 L. Belcher ... ... ... 132 4 J. D. Blackmore ... ... 100 3 J. T. Brown ... ... ... 7,081 221 H. and W. Clarkaon ... ... 538 20 J. Oondy ... ... ... 15,093 152 P. Cunningham ... ... 6.161 257 Dalgety'a executors 1.H9 g j Crossley Dampier ... ... 1.878 <sim J. and J. Deans ... ... 4,713 194 G. Douglas' executors ... ... 4,326 128 T. Ellis 3,6<0 123 J. Denys and Co. ... ... 26,350 342 G. Fisher ... ... ... 33,668 208 W.Gerard ... ... ... 34 095 888 J. R. Gorton ... ... ... 4.684 251 Sir J. Hall ... ... ... 2,97<J las O. Hurst W0 7 J. Innes ... ... .» 10,848 332 B. B. Langton .., ... ... 1.119 37 Mathias and Enßor ... ... 7,264 222 Minchinee ... ... ... 4,100 86 N. M. and A. Company, Limited ... 73,902 1004 P D.S.Neave... ... ... 29,982 376 N.Z.L.andM. A. Company, Limited 20.333 3472 J. J. Oakden ... ... ... 11.891 309 J. Palmer ... ... ... 13.724 414 O.Sladden ... 4,844 72 3. Westenm's executors ... ... 1.102 37 Acton Adams ... ... ... 987 46 J. H. C. Bond ... ... ... 11,400 12 R.M. Cotton ... ..-. .» H.OOO 22 M.Dixon 2,815 49 M.Dixon ... ... .» 2,800 10 M.Dixon ... ... .» 2,582 4* A. Holmes ... ... ... 98 3 J.Hurae ... ... .- 200 10 N.Z.L.andM. A. Company, Limited 1,194 30 Ditto ditto ... ... 33,500 6 Ditto ditto ... ... (55,000 203 J. Ilk-karri ... ... ... 150 12 G. Rutherford ... ... ... 2,708 16 G. Rutherford ... . ... l.&tf 4 ± The total acreage in round numbers is 856,644 acres, and the rental in round numbers is £11,940. ROMAN CATHOLIC CLAIMS. From a return laid on the table this afternoon it transpired that the petitions presented by Roman Catholics up to yesterday bear 15,987 signatures. THE DIVORCE BILL. The Presbyterian Synod of Otago and Southland has forwarded a petition to^ the House of Representatives recognising with satisfaction the bill for the amendment of the divorce law; which proposes to place husband and wife on the same footing of criminality in reference to adultery, but expressing strong disapproval of the remainder of the bill on the grounds that the proposals are contrary to the marriage ordinance as a divine institution, and that the proposals of the bill are calculated to destroy the family institution and consequently undermine the moral wellbeing of the community. THE EDUCATION ACT. A monster petition, signed by a large number of Protestants in the city of Auckland, protesting against any concession to the Catholics re education, is on its way to Wellington. Mentioning the matter to the Minister of Education this forenoon, that gentleman gave me to understand .that the Ministry as a Ministry would not assist Mr Pyke to carry his Roman Catholic Schools Bill through the House. Speaking lot himself, he stated that much as he admired the steadfastness of the Catholic body in advocating denominationalism, he was bound to^givethe bill an uncompromising opposition. He also informed me that the suggestion made from the educational authorities in Otago relative to proposed retrenchments met with his hearty approval. He expressed his . opinion that the sum of £10,000 could be saved in Ofcago without impairing in the slightest degree the efficiency of the systemTHE KAIKORAI SCHOOL DISPUTE. The Minister for Education has replied to the petition of the Kaikorai School Committee asking for a commission to inquire into the dispute between the committee and the Education Board. The letter which is addressed to Mi Scott Archer is as follows :— Sir,— l have the honour to acknowledge the receipi of your letter of the 15th inst., and of a petitior ■ from the parents and residents in the Kaikora! School district, relating to a dispute between thf Otago Education Board and theKaikorai School Com 1 mtttee in regard to the dismissal of Mr M'Lauchlan 1 head master of the Kaikorai School. Sinco the re ' ceipt of your letter, I have been waited on by a depu 1 tatioa, consisting of Mr Ross, M.H.R., Mr Allen '. M.H X., the Hon. Mr Dick, and the Rev. Mr North who made representations on the same subject. Ii ' reply to your letter and to the representations of thi ' deputation, I have to say that however much thi Minister of Education might desire to interfere it the settlement of the dispute bfttwaen the board am the school committee, the Education Act puts i quite out of his power to do bo. In such a case tb< board are supreme. After full discussion of the sub ject, the deputation concurred in this view. I there j fore cannot see my way to interfere in. this matttsr.5 I have, &c, ; Geo. Fisheb. I THE MIDLAND RAILWAY. 3 The Hon. Major ATKINSON moved— 14 Tha : the House agree with the report on the Midlam i railway." He'explained that the committee hai v gone to a great deal of trouble in endeavourini to put the contract in a reasonable form. H \, did not propose to go into the general questioi now, but would point out to the House tha j there were two points to which they migh - direct their attention. The first was a grant o r one million and a-quarter, or that a guarante 3 should be given that the land would be wor,tl t that sum. The committee had arranged tha b that guarantee should be allowed within th area but not outside it, and he thought tha j was not unreasonable under the circumstance* 1 The other point was as to gold mining right* f The Government had thonght 750,000 acres ou r of the authorised area for gold mining purpose - should be allowed. He wished to say that if th 1 House agreed to the report of the committee Government would endeavour to get the con - tract made out in legal form, and to get i f signed before the House rose if possible ; but i ■> not, that the Government should be authorise* ; to enter into negotiations with the company f o i a revised contract. He hoped the House vroul 1 agree to the report of the committee. 3 MrDOWNIE STEWART suggested that i provision confining the company to the autho f rißed area in selecting land should be insertec 3 Another point was the selection by Govern men* of land for mining. It might happen bha i the whole of a block might not be auriferoui - but only part of it, and he thought the contrac f should be clear on that point. He also though 1 some provision should be made for settling a] 1 disputes in the courts of the colony. i Mr WARD thought there was a possibilit; 1 that the land should not reach £1,250,000. H - should like to see a clause inserted that in n d circumstances would provision be made tfca that amount be made up.
Mr SAMUEL said the whole of the contract was inconsistent with any money claim against the colony. The House would notice the gre&t change in that direction by the report of the committee. There could be no understanding whatever arrived at by reading this contract that the colony was to be responsible for any de. ficiency. He said the committee had not lost sight of the interests of the colony, but they also considered a fair compromise should be made to the company. Although he had hitherto been opposed to the railway, he believed now it would be a calamity for the colony if the railway was not proceeded with. Captain RUSSELL believed the time WiJ altogether premature for the construction of this railway; but the consideration of that question was now past, and the committee had to direct their efforts towards making the best of the circumstances. There was no doubt from the correspondence that the company had made every effort to get a guarantee from the colony. He thought it was the duty of the House to make it clear that the financiers of the comply under no circumstances could come on the colony to make up tho deficiency by a money guarantee. He intended moving an addition to clause 3 to this effect, so as to make the matter perfectly clear to the company. The SPEAKER said it was competent lot any member to move that the clauses be considered seriatim. He thought this the most desirable course. The Hod. Major ATKINSON would not object to that if the Speaker thought it desirable, He then moved—" That the contract be considered paragraph by paragraph." Sir G. GREY moved as an amendment- " That the contract be considered in committee of the whole." Dr NEWMAN was startled at the way jjj which efforts were made to hurry this contract, He also thought it would be a great wrong to I abandon the contract, andj he was sure a large majority of the House were determined to catty lit out. He felt, however, that the patter was ' altogether too important to be hurried through in this manner. The report of committee waj very slipshod and lopsided. Everything was given to fche company and nothing to the colony in that report. Nearly 5,500,000 of acres vete proposed to be given to the company.— (" No") He supported the amendment for going through ■ the clauses seriatum, and he asked what the position of the colony would be supposing the oompany were to break down. That contingency should be provided for in this report. Mr MARCHANT saw nothing in the contract to regulate the manner in which the land should be disposed of, and he thought that should be provided for. He saw no reason for going into committee, as they had the assurance of the Government that the clauses could be considered seriatim. Sir J. VOGEL wished to notice a few points in the debate. He first desired to state that the private enterprise. He gave the history of the railway since 1884 and the connection of the previous Government with it. He admitted that the Government did not abide altogether by the opinion of the Solicitor-general in framing the contract, but he denied that the contract was rendered illegal in consequence. It wu quite true they lost by the present contract in giving up the alternate blocks, but they acquired the right to keep 750,000 acres out of the area. As to the guarantee that had been so much objected to, he considered the colony fan norin'tof giving more than the 2,300,000 acres that was originally proposed to be given. There was no possible risk of the guarantee being required,«id the liability of any deficiency was exceedingly small. Neither was there anything whatever in the contract to warrant the guarantee. He claimed that the contract as now framed ma framed in the interests of promoting settlement, also iv the interests of the mining industry. Mr WARD said it appeared to him that there was no 765,000 acres of land in the contract in excess of what was originally promised. If Sit J. Vogel was correct that neither in land nor in equity was the company entitled to a money guarantee, he saw no reason whatever why the proviso should not be inserted in clause 3. The Hon. Major Atkinson's resolution that the contract be considered paragraph by paragraph ia the House was then put and carried on the voices, and Sir 3. Grey's amendment lost. Mr W. D. STEWART then moved his amendment referring to a proviso that no more than 10,000 acres shall be set apart, and to add t! words " that the whole of such block need not bo auriferous." Mr SEDDON would move a further amendment to insert words in the clause "defining what is mining land "as being according to theMraeJ
Act The Hon. Major ATKINSON said he should undertake that Mr Seddon's amendment should be embodied in the contract. Mr SEDDON would accept that assurance, and withdrew his amendment. Clauße 2 then passed without amendment. In clause 3, providing that if the original area of land shall not be of the value of £1,250,000, then the company shall select further land up to that amount. , Mr DOWNIE STEWART moved an amendment—" That the only remedy of the company in respect of such difference (if any) shall be » right on the part of the company to select from the authorised area." He explained that tw object of the amendment was to provide againi* a money guarantee beiDg given by the colony. The Hon. Major ATKINSON opposed the amendment, and a lengthy discussion followed. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said he m been asked by several members to state tw ; opinion of the Attorney-general on clause i. That opinion was that the Attorney-gene™ considered clause 3 was sufficient to prevent tne company from making any money claim ou tn« colony. n Mr Downie Stewart's amendment on clause o was then put and lost by 39 to 34. The fol towMr DOWNIE STEWART moved a further amendment to the effect that the company m&y select land only to the extent of the land available.—Lost by 48 to 28. Clause 3 was then passed without alteration. Mr SEDDON moved that a proviso be addea to clause 3 to protect riparian rights. . The Hon. Major ATKINSON said he shouW embody this in the contract. The amendment was withdrawn, ana v» clause passed. ... On clause 13 being reached, providing ; ra» the railway shall commence at Springfield a» u extend towards Brunnerton, , Mr ALLEN moved to strike out the portionoj the clause relating to Nelson and Belgrove section towards Reef ton. He thought it was u» fair to try to compel them to commence vp contract at Belgrove and at the same time v commence another one at Springfield. M The Hon. Major ATKINSON was sorry * disagree with his hon. friend again in this mj ter. He thought it exceedingly undesirable * strike out this line, as it was necessary the cobpany should commence at both ends, H Mr LEVESTAM hoped the good sense of Pf House .would not allow them to pay mucti v tention to any hon. member who one mow posed as a friend of thg company and the w as a friend of the colony.^" Captain RUSSELL said there was no aettf men* whatever between Keefton and Belgrw and. tw believed. th& constiuolaon of w»* »*
would greatly injure the company, and land it in great difficulties. Mr Alleu's amendment was then put and lost by 60 to 16, and the clause passed. The remaining clauses were agreed to with amendments, the Premier promising, at Mr Guineas' request, to do what he could to protect miners' rights. The report of the committee was then agreed to, and a message was ordered to bs sent to the Legislative Council requesting their concurrence in it. Wellington, 25th November. THE NEW LAND BILL. The new Land Bill of the Minister of Lands (Hon. G. F. Richardson) was circulated to-night. The only alterations of importance from the outline wired a fortnight ago are these : — (1) The area of small runs has been enlarged from 5000 to 20,000 acres. (2) The sections of the existing Land Act relating to special settlements are not repealed ; but so far as relates to the extension of the system at the present time, they will simply remain unexerciseu. (3) One-third of the amounts received from special settlements will bo returned to them for roading. It appears that one such payment was made to a special settlement, bub stopped, as the regulations proved to be ultra vires. The present bill will legalise such payments. The other alterations from the synopsis I have already telegraphed are unimportant. THE SHEEP ACT AMENDMENP RILL. In the Legislative Council, The Hon. Mr STEVENS moved the second reading of the Sheep Act Amendment Bill. While speaking to the motion, he wished to state that in committee he would bring forward several amendments. The most important clause in the bill was that conferring power to destroy infected flocks and recouping the | owners to the extent of half the value of sheep destroyed. The Hon. Mr WALKER expressed a feeling of relief that the • Government intended to amend the bill in committee, and described one of the clauses as it stood as being brutally oppressive. The Hon. Mr WATERHOUSE suggested that the better plan would be to refer the bill to a select committee for consideration. The Hon. Mr STEVENS expressed his willingness to adopt the suggestion. The bill was read a second time and referred to a select committee. RAILWAY EMPLOYES. In the House of Representatives, Mr BRTJCE asked the Premier whether he could provide in some way for discharged railway employes receiving compensation or an allowance. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said ho proposed dealing with the matter in the Civil Service Reform Act which he iutended to introduce next session. THE BIBLE IN SCHOOLS. Mr FULTON movod the second reading of the Bible-reading m Schools Bill, which was brought in to enable school committees to cause the Bible to bo read in schools. He said ifc was not the first occasion on which ho hud addressed the House Oil this question, and wished thab some better advocate could he found to demonstrate the claims which the Bible had on the attention of the people. He hoped he would not be met with any opposition of previous questions, but that a vote would be taken on the bill in a fair and square manner so that they would know the position in which they stood in respect to this matter. It had been objected by some that the bill did not go far enough, and that the banreading of the Bible in the manner proposed would effect every little good ; but he for one would be glad to secure «;v«n that concession, and something further might be obtained at a later period. He pointed out that it was only proposed to read a portion of the Bible every morning for 20 minutes, and that no child would be compelled to abtend such reading unless thi; parents or guardians of the children gave their consent. The reason they asked for this concession being granted was because it represented the wish of a very large portion of the population of the colony. The names to petitions on this subject during this session alone amounted to no less than 14,000, representing people from all p.xrts of- the colony. lie would not speak further on the mutter, but would prefer hearing other members express their opinions on tho Bible. He could aver with safofcy that no religious difficulty existed in Otayo during the time the Bible was read in tue bchools of that district, and said that tho practice obtained throughout the various civilised portions of the world. Why then should this colony be an exception in that respect? He held that the State failed in a large part of its duty if it failed to give a moral training to the children of tho colony. As to bringing discord into schools, he pointed out that no such discord was i'ouud in the London board schools, Birmingham schools, and others in large cities in the old world. He denied that such a proposal would introduce denominationalism into our schools, but the opponents of the scheme were doing that which would introduce the donomination.il system. He hoped the second reading would be agreed to. Dr HODGKINSON supported the bill, and appealed to the Young New Zealand party in the House to vote for it. He had himself presented a petition signed by 1000 women of Southland in favour of Bible-reading in schools, and he heartily approved of the present bill. Mr R. REEVES (Inangahua) failed to seethe object of tho bill, as school committees had already got the power if they chose to appoint a certain time of the day for the Bible to be read, either before or after school hours. He should like to hear some further arguments in favour of the Bible bofoie he voted for it. Mr GOLDIE opposed the bill, iiud considered it would be a great mistake to force the Bible into our State schools. In many cases parents were only to o glad to have their children taught by proxy so as to relieve them from trouble, but he felt that the homes were the proper places for the Bible to be taught. He thought^ this was an effort to introduce the denominational system, and' was sure that if the Bible were read in the public schools in the manner proposed by the bill it would lead to a large amount of irreverence. There was a difficulty also as to the variety of denominations, each of which would require a different system in reading the Bible. Mr BRUCE considered the bill a very important one, as it embodied the wishes of a larye portion of the people of the colony. He believed very much could be taid in its favour, aud also something againstit. He thought religious lesions should be given at homo aud in Sunday ichools, and not rushed over in the common schools, where the Bible would be very likely to bo irreverently r«ad. At the same time, if •children got no opportunity of reading the Bible in schools they would in many cases grow up ih ignorance of their duty to their Creator and also to their fellow creatures. He did not believe that this measure would introduce the thin edge of deuomi nationalism, and he would vote for it, although he did not think it would accomplish all its promoters desired. Mr BXJXTON supported the. bill, and thought; the Bible should not be offensive to the con-
Bcience of anybody. Efe considered that if the Bible were read without comment in schools it ; would beiikely to do more good than if any explanation were given of it. He felt very strongly i on this point. It would be a great blessing to the unborn millions to have the Bible in the day i schools. He appealed to the House to pass the bill, as the Bible would improve the morals of i our youth and be a blessing to the colony. 1 Mr TANNER said this was a subject that 1 appealed to the highest part of their nature. As to the difficulties referred to by Mr Goldie, tho6e difficulties only existed in that hon. gentleman's imagination. With respeot to what had been said about denominationalism being introduced by the bill, he pointed out that the denominationalists were now joining together to get the Bible read in public schools. He (Mr Tanner) was one who believed in the Roman Catholic claims being recognised, and he thought many members of that denomination would not object ibo the Bible being read in schools if their claims were acknowledged. He was quite convinced the time had arrived when the Bible should be read in the schools of the colony, aud the people demanded that the question should be relegated to themselves. £le thought the Government should have brought this bill forward. He quoted extensively from statistics in support, of the bill, and hoped the House would agree to the second reading. Mr BLAKE said if there was so much discord amongst the children of public schools over Bible teaching as existed in the House on the question, it would not do much good. He was opposed to the Bible being read in the public schools of the colony, and had only to say that he had learned from that book tb.it a houso divided against itself could not stand. Mr HOBBS said he should have no difficulty whatever as to which way he should vote if they all belonged to one denomination, but unfortunately this was not so. He thought the question of the introduction of the Bible into schools had not received propercousideration, and it would take a great deal to influence him in support of denominational education, because that was what it feally meant. He would vote against the bill. Dr NEWMAN denied that young New Zealand were given to larrikinism, and pointed out that the State system of education was most beneficial. It was also well known that there was far less rowdyism in our streets now thati under the old system of education. Hts considered the greatest boon conferred on the people of this colony was our present education system. Mr PRATT supported the bill, and said a great many members of the House were pledged to vote for Bible-reading in schools. Mr TAIWHANGA said the foundation of England was the Bible, and no law was made in England witheub the Bible. He considered that without the Bible England would not stand for more than a few years, and he thought New Zealand could not do better than to follow that example. He should vote for the second reading of the bill. Mr f liSHitiK had great respect for tho Bible, and yet he was compelled to vote against tho bill. If it were really desired to have some portion of tbo Scriptures read in schools, ho saw no dilHculty in fchu mutter. Tuero was no doubt; a large portion of the colony in favour of this, but he thought if simple scripture lessons were adopted, as recommended by the member for Waipawa, it would answer all the purposes required. If the Bible were read indiscriminately there was ga'fifc danger, uot only for irreverent children, but for irreverent masters. He pointed out that means already existed in the Educatijn Act by which those gentlemen who advocated. Bible-reading iv schools could have their wishes gratified, but the very fact that this was not taken advantage of showed that clergymen were not so earnest in the matter as might be desired. He should have no objection whatever it' a proper selection of the Bible were made so as to inculcate precepts of truth am! uprightness, but he held that to put the whole book into the hands of irreverent teachers would do more harm than good. Mr ALLEN said the bill did not provide for the admission of ministers of religion to schools. He admitted that tho present Education Act provided for the reading of the Bible in schools, but it did not provide for reading it in school hours. If it were to be of any benefit at all it must bo by reading the Bible in school hours, and not by forcing a, child to hear it after school had closed. He totally denied that this proposal opened the door to denomiuationalism, and he for one would be tho first to oppose the bill if it did bo. He would ask, seeing the large number of petitions that had been presented to the House on the subject, and that the democracy or majority of the people of the colony had demanded tho reading of the Bible in schools, why should the Bible be the only book barred from the public . schools of the colony ? The reason of that was that those who kept it out thought there was something in that book which a child should not see. It was the voice of a wicked minority trying to rule the majority. He admitted that there was a good deal in the argument that parents should impart religious instruction, but if the home was not pure it was impossible that such instruction could be given. The Hon. Mr FERGUS said Mr Allen assumed too much when he said the majority of the people of the colony were in favour of Bible»reading in schools, and pointed out that when this system was put to the test in Otago a large majority of the people in that district actually took no trouble to reply to circulars on the subject. If the people iv the colony wanted anything at all, it was to keep intact the present system of education, and thoso who advocated the present bili were playing into the hands of those who wished to destroy it. As soon as the introduction of the Bible into schools was allowed, a great many capable men would be shut out as teachers, owing to sectarian differences that would follow from it. He held that the decrease in crime iv New Zealand was attributable to our present system of education, and he felt sure if the people of the colony had to decide the matter it would be rejected by a large majority. Mr TAYLOR said if advocates of Biblereading in schools wanted to break up the education system, they should admit it; but he was determined as long as he was in the House to uphold that system. Mr WITHY held it a sound principle that no State was warranted in taxing the whole of its people so teach a particular section. He maintained th-\t in questions of morality and religion the State could not interfere. Mr LE VESTA M opposed the bill, and contended that it would undoubtedly introduce a system of denominationalism. If the Bible were read in the public schools without any explanation, it would do no good either in the cause of religion or education. If the bill were passed, our education system would be broken up Mr GRIMMOND said the bill would introduce an element of discord, and would weaken the system of education that had hitherto worked well. The question had never been submitted to the electors of the colony. He hoped the bill would not go through the House, and that the discussion would show the people of the colony did not want any change in this direction. Mr W. P. RBBVES (St. Albans) said a question
of this kind would be a very profitable one if th< » House were a debating society or a young men' 1 Christian association, but he thought the Hous< i should not waste time in discussing a threshed out subject. The matter was no vovelty. I had been talked over session after session, an< there was no member of the House who had no made up his mind on the question. It shouli not be touched unless a great majority of th< people expressed their opinion that it should bi dealt with. If the people of the colony wishe( the change they would have sent members t< the House pledged to Bible-reading in schools He did not believe the majority of the people wanted any change in tho present system, a: religious bodies were not united on the questioi when the advocates of this bill set about th< task of convincing the constituencies. He was no a believer in larrikinism, but he denied that th< lads of this colony were not as well-behaved a: any other colony or country in the Britisl Empire. He appealed to the House not to pro long this debate any further, Dr FITCHETT said that at the bottom of th< whole question lay the conviction that it mean denominationalism, and he asked where Mj Fulton's consistency was when he admittec denominationalism meant killing the education system. Ho held that if the Bible were reac without comment it would be a positive, evil aud in the interest of the Bible itself it shouk not be read without comment of some sort. Ot the other hand, if comment were allowec sectarianism would at once creep in. Sir J. VOGEL said some of the arguments ad vanced by Mr Allen in favour of this bill wen very shallow, and he combated tho statemeni that because the Bible was not allowed to b< read in schools children were taught to considei ib an objectionable book. It might be thai members of the House had such a high reverence for the Bible that they objected to its bein£ trifled with by reading it in the manner proposed. He deplored as much as auybody that £ child should be brought up with a purely seculai education without being taught religion of anj sort, but he held that the State should not be the teacher of religion. The State must eithei leave that duty to parents or guardians, or i\ must establish sectarian schools or subsidise denominational schools kept by private persons, He could not support the present bill, as it was the first step towards denomi»ationalism. Mr DOWNIB STEWART asked why the Bible should be kept out of the public schools The cry that this was the initial stage toward' denominatioualism was simply a cry got up bj tho opponents of the bill. He thought if the people of Otago or Hawke's Bay wished the Bible read in their schools they should not be prevented from doing so by the people oi other places. The Bible was read in the Otagc public schools till the passing of the act of 1877, and there was never any complaint or discord about it. All the arguments about a State church convinced him that the subject was not properly understood. In many places where the Bible was mad in school there was no cry of intolerance, lie tlv«u«ht it only a matter of justice th.'it those people who were in favour of the concession being grunted should have the opportunity afforded thorn by passing tin: bill. Mr WALKER felt the question was a very serious one, but he had not been convinced by the arguments he had heard in favour of the bill. He thought it was patent to everybody that the people of the colony had not asked for a repeal of a portion of the act. He hoped the bill would not pus?. Mr GUINESS opposed the bill, and said the mere reading, of the Bible for 20 minutes without explanation would confer no benefit whatever on scholars. He moved that the bill be read that day six months. Messrs FITZHERBERT and SAMUEL opposed the bill. Sir G. GREY referred to the solemn farce that had just been played by the lawyers of the House. He asked whether there was ever such an instance of a great Legislature being so disgraced as that by raising the teaching of the Bible question wretched people were robbed of the benefits about to be conferred on them by other bills on the Order Paper. Dr FITCHETT denied that any compact had been entered into' by the lawyers of the House to defeat other bills on the Order Paper. He was glad the Law Practitioners Bill had not came on for discussion, as he should be compelled to vote against it, but he altogether regretted Sir G. Grey's assertions as to organised stonewalliug. ; Mr SBDDON supported the bill, but would amend it in committee. He considered Sir G. Grey had good reason to feel aggrieved at the treatment he had received with respect to his bills on the paper. The motion for the second reading was lost by 31 to 14. The following is the division list : — Ayks, 14.— Messrs Allen, Anderson, Buxton, Cowan, Feldwtck, Fulton, Hodgkiuson, Joyce, J. M'Kenzie, G. P. Richardson, Ross, Steward, W. D. ! Stewart, and '1 a"iier. Noes, 31 — Messrs Bnllance, Ban-on, Blake, Duncan. Fergus, Fisher, Fitchett, Fitzherbert, Fraser, Qoldie, Grimmond, Guineas, Hobbs, Jackson, Kelly, Kerr, La wry, Lovestam, Marchant, M'Gregor, Moat, Monk, Moss, Peacock, W P. Reeves, Samuel, Seymour, Taylor, Thompson, Walkar, and Withy. Pairs.— For : Messr3 Turnbull. Taiwhauga, Fyke, Graham, Fish, M'Kenzie, Pratt, Jones, Hall, Bruce, Ward, Rhodes, Larnaeh, Mills, Atkinson, Carr- 11. Against : O'Callaghau, Loughroy, O'Conor, Beutham, K. Reeves. Pearson, B. Richardson, Izard, M* Arthur, Hislop.M. J. Mackenzie, Newman, Vogel, Buchanan, Valentine, Mitchelson. The House rose at 1.30 a.m. WAIKAIA AND KELSO. Messrs Valentine aud Pyke waited on the Minister of Public Works this forenoon to j bring under his notice the necessity which exists for proceeding with road making operations at Waikaia and Kslio. They pointed out that the sum of £2700 had been placed on the Estimates by the Government for the work. Mr Mitchelson, in reply, said he was aware that the sum mentioned had been voted for roadmaking between Waikaki and Kelso, and between Waikaia township and the railway. Ho .would promise to have tho amount reinstated in the Public Works Estimates, but he could only promise in the meantime to anthoiise the expenditure of £1000, and the whole of this sura would- be spent on the road between the Waikaia township and the railway siding. The road between Waikaka and Kelso would have to remain as it is for a little longer. Mr Valentine has received a telegram from Mr Quin, of Tapanui, and another from Mr J. F. Herbert relative to roadmaking at Waikaka, but no sum was voted last session for any work in that district. Messrs Quin and Herbert have evidently mistaken Waikaia for Waikaka. FOREST DEPARTMENT, WHANGAREI. Mr Hislop (brother of Dr Hislop, of Dunedin) passed through here last week for Whangarei, having been despatched by Professor Kirk, the chief conservator of the Forest department, to take charge of the Papatawa Reserve, adjacent to tho Kirikiriroa Reserve, Whangarei. This block of 100 acres is first-class volcanic land, given to the Government by the Whangarei County Council for experiments in fruitgrowing, &c. Mr Hislop will carry out 6uch experiments as may be directed by the chief conservator, e.^pecially with regard to economic plant 3 and sub-tropical fruits. A number of pcouomiu plauts have already been received from the Rjyal Gardens. These and others
a are expected from various countries. Arranges ments have been already made for a trial 3 culture of the tea plant — both the Assam and .- Chinese varities — on such a scale as to determine . t { its suitability for profitable cultivation in this i colony. This is the more important as t machinery has recently been invented which simplifies the manufacture and reduces its cost to a minimum. About 10 acres of a nursery has been laid out, in which are 300 varieties of apples, so that settlers may know the best varieties to cultivate ; and also half-a-dozen varieties of oranges and the West Indian lime. Wellington 27th November, SIR GEORGE GREY INDIGNANT. In the Bible-in-schools debate on Friday night, after Messrs Guiness and Samuel had spoken, Sir George Grey, who appeared to be deeply agitated, got up to address the House. He denounced in scathing terms those who, " under a seeming cloak of virtue," had used the Bible-in-sehools question in order to keep him from bringing forward his Land Bill and his Law Practitioners Bill. He referred sarcastically to his legal friends as the " noble and righteous men " who in their zeal for the Bible had lent their aid to " wrong the poor." I have never seen Sir George Grey so deeply moved as on this occasion. Even Mr Pyke's wrath at the " talking out " of his Otago Central Bill paled into mdgnificance before the anger of Sir George. In concluding his speech he " wondered that certain members did not hide themselves out of sight" after the night's work. He predicted that those who conspired against him would " dwarf into itisiguificance " before long, and that his bills would yet become law. Sir George, on concluding, was loudly applauded. THE LAWYERS' STRATEGY. The " talking out " tactics pursued by certain members of the black brigade on Friday night is generally condemned. I have sounded several members in the lobbies on the subject, and find that a widespread feeling of sympathy for Sir G. Grey exists in consequence of the unfair usage which he has received from gentlemen who should be above such an un-English mode of fighting. Every measure should be discussed on its merits, and if it is found not to be in accordance with the views of the majority, it is bound to be kicked out. I learn on excellent authority that if the style of procedure iudulged in on Friday night is persisted in, an old standing order will be revived by which such mauceuvres will be prevented. The local newspapers condemn the lawyers' action in unmistakable terms. The Post says : — " We believe the country will endorse Sir G. Grey's remarks regarding the by no means creditable action taken by the legal members to stonewall his bills, more especially the Law Practitioners Bill, of which they are in great dread." The New Zealand Times refers to the debate as follows:— "So peculiarly tiresome did the thing become as tha evening wore on, that a suspicion arose that Sir George Grey's bills were in reality being talked out. This form of strategy is becoming increasingly common, but is a very misorablu and unworthy oue, and cannot be too resolutely discouraged." DANDY FEVER. Mr Pykc is suffering from a severe attack of dandy fever. He had to take to his betl yesterday morning, and the assistance of a medical man w:is called in. lam happy to state that he is much better this morning. THE MIDLAND RAILWAY. The Midland Railway contract is not quite out of danger yet. Strenuous opposition will be offered to the measure in the Council, and it is probable that amendments will he made of such a character that the alterations will endanger the entire business. The company, I learn, will not tolerate any further material alteration iv the contract, and should the Council succeed in carrying the .proposed amendments all the fat will be in the fire, and nothing further will be done in the matter during the present session. The Government, however, are bringing as much pressure to bear as they possibly can on those members of the Council who are opposed to the contract, but it requires very clever diplomacy to pilot the affair through all its stages. THE PROTECTIONISTS' PROTEST. Th« Post is nn-rry at the expense of the Protectionists. Referring to their intended action on Monday evening, it says :— " It will certainly be interesting and should prove an impressive spectacle which will ba presented in the House of Representatives when the Protectionist opposition will leave the chamber in a body after a protest by their leader against the course adopted by the Premier in dealing with the tariff. The scene may indeed afford an inspiration to some future historical painter who may arise amongst Sir George Grey's as yet unborn millions. " The Protest of the Protectionists " would be a fine subject. Of course the Opposition will not dream of slinking out individually, nor will they retire in disorder as a mere rabble. The withdrawal will be conducted with due regard to dramatic. effect, and as far as we can ascertain, the programme will be as follows : — So soon as Sir J. Vogel finishes speaking the Protectionists will form in military order in the body of the House, and carrying their leader shoulder high, willj march three times round the table to the music of the policeman's chorus from the 'Pirates of Penzance,' at the same time chanting, 'We go, we go. Tarantara, tarantara, tarantara ." Mr Seddon will enact the part of the Sergeant, for which ,his burly person and five voice eminently qualify him. As the last echo, of their ' tarantaras ' fade upon the oar from' the distant lobby Major Atkinson will take up the chant and lead the Ministerial chorus, 1 They go, they go ; aad their hearts are in their boots. Tarantara, tarantara.!' " MINISTERIAL STONEWALLERS. It seems that tho lawyers had on Friday night firm allies in the Ministerial party. The former wished to kill the L;iw Practitioners Bill, and the latter desired to slaughter the Freehold Tenure Acquisition Bill. No fewer than 14 Government supporters and two Ministers spoke during the Bible-in-schools discussion. THE FINANCIAL DEBATE. It is reported that the Public Works Statement will be delivered on Friday if the Financial debate is by that time out of the way. I have reasons to believe that the public works policy will not be in accordance with tho original intention of the Government at the time the Financial Statement was delivered. The vote on them was evidently to carry all the various railways pretty much in tbe old style, reducing the expenditure but spreadiug it all over the colony, and while talking about stopping borrowing, to take no real *tcp in that direction. I fancy, however, that the determined attitudee of Mr Scobie Mackenzie and others who are moro distinctly Atkinsonau has not been without its effects, ami that an attempt will be made to 'show some signs of finality, while at the same time the Government will profess readiness to take less loan money than they originally demanded. I should not bo surprised to see them take advantage of tbe dispute as to the route of tho Northern Trunk to delay the construction of the line and tbe raising of the loan, while it will probably be discovered that £750,000 will be enough for the present at any rate. lam certain that Ihe t Government now desire to astonish tho House '
with their public works policy, and to do it in the way of a vigorous contraction of operations. I confess I have some ttonbts whether they are prepared to run any serious risks with such a policy as this, and I fancy they have left themselves room to study and profit by the tono of the Financial debate so far as it has yet to come. THE SEAOLIFF DISPUTE. It is rumoured that farther correspondence has passed between Dr Neill and the Government, and it is likely that it will be made public in a few days. •— — ~ Wellington, 28th November. : GENERAL SCHAW'S REPORT. The Cabinet had the report of General Schaw under consideration this morning. Some of the recommendations made by the general created a lively discussion among Ministers, but a unanimous opinion was expressed in Cabinet that the report is a very able and | exhaustive document. It will not be circulated for a few days yet. THE MIDLAND RAILWAY. Mr Alan Scott informs me that there is not a tittle of truth in the ramour published in the New Zealand Times to the effect that the company will not accept the contracts as amended. He desires me to give this state* ment an unqualified contradiction. AN IMPORTANT RETURN. The following is the text of an important return moved for by Mr Turnbull : — " This return shows the value of the real and personal property belonging to the 1140 persons described in the papers attached to the Financial Statement of May last, page 24, return No. 8, as ' absentees ' ; and if possible, whether the absence is of a temporary or permanent nature. Real property, £3,672,741 ; personal property, £5,082,694; total, £8,755,435. So far as is known to the department, the absence is believed in nearly every case to be of a permanent nature. — J. Spekeet, Property Tax Commissioner." REVISION OF THE TARIFF. The Hon. Major ATKINSON moved—" (1) That in the opinion of this House the imperative demand by the colony that the public expenditure should be brought within the revenue, and the necessity, in order to prevent serious embarrasment, that that object should be effected without delay, renders it the first duty of the Government to press on nectssary financial measures. (2.) That the time to be devoted to these measures renders it impracticable to give sufficient consideration in the present session to such a thorough revision of the customs tariff as is required, and therefore such revision should not be now attempted, but should be undertaken during the recess and submitted to Parliament at the beginning of next session." He said there appeared to be a difference of opinion as to what it was desirable to do in this matter. He affirmed that it was impossible for the Government to revise the tariff this session. Personally, he very much desired that it should be revised without delay, but he had come to tho deliberate conclusion that it could not be donu this session. It was impossible in course of a couple of mouths to reorganise the civil service so as to effect the necessary retrenchment and to make a thorough revision of the tariff. Tho only course, therefore, was to defer the matter till the conclusion of the session. He again reminded the House that every day tho session was prolonged it meant adding largely to the expense of the country, and he hoped his motion would be agreed to so that other business could be proceeded with. Sir J. VOGEL referred to the circumstances under which this motion was brought forward* and said the Premier was very careful in not; bringing it down beforehehad secured the votes of the Auckland members. He repudiated the assertion made by Mr Fisher that he had been wasting the time of the House, and he considered it a piece of the grossest presumption on that hon. gentleman's part to make such a statement. He referred to a speech made by Mr Fisher last year which he (Mr Fisher) had recommended every man, woman, and child in Wellington to read ; but that speech was full of misrepresentations and falsehoods. As to his (Sir J. Vogel's) wasting the time of the House this session, he had been 17 years in the House and he had never spoken less than on the present occasion. He threw the charge of delaying the session back on Major Atkinson himself. As i Premier he was unable to conduct the business of the House. A more miserable attempt in conducting the business of the House he had never seen in all his experience. He gave the Premier the alternative thereof— concealed in-, tention or partial imbecility. Referring to the customs tariff he thoughtthe Government should have had no trouble in deciding whether ad vaUrem duties on boots and shoes, iron and Brass work, spirits or perfumes should or should not be raised. There was no reason whatever why they should lose £1000 per month because the Premier bad not the courage to take up this question. He also referred to ths fact that plain sheet galvanised uou was being imported into the colony and made into corrugated sheets, at a loss to the revenue of £14,000 to £18,000 a year. There were several other articles on which revenue could be raised if the Government had any desire to deal with the question. The first resolution, to his mind, seemed to cover what was not the case. He denied that the Premier had allowed them to consider retrenchment. Ho had treated the question whether details would be explained to the House as a want of confidence. The only Measures before them at present were the reductions of the Governor's and Ministers' salaries, and the reduction of members and the houoraiiuni. There was also thu Land Bill, but that lie considered a mischievous measure in mauy respects. He considered the resolution proposed by tho Premier was really a vote of confidence in the Government, and it was quite an unconstitutional precedent to establish. The Premier's resolution was also very unkind to Auckland members, and it had been pointed out by an Auckland paper; that it was positively cruel to make them vote against their election pledges. As to tho action of the Opposition, while they would nob allow a measure to pass with which they disagreed without proper criticism, they would also assist the Government in carrying through the business of the session. The only desire of the Government in his opinion was to retain office, and their only plan of doing so wns to keep the support of members who disagreed from them. He considered th« Premier had lost; much of his former ability but unfortunately had preserved all his raulta, and he was absolutely ignorant of the wants of the colony. Ho (Sir J. Vogel) was at the present time prepared to bring down proposals for the revision of tho tariff and for the construction of railways without going to tho money market, but for the personal hostility of tho Premier. If he were to make such proposals now they would be received with jeers and laughter. He had pledged himself that he should not increase taxation after the> enormous deficit left by Major Atkinson, and he claimed that he carried out that promise. The proposals now in his mind w'ero of a different character. They embraced reduced taxation, refraining from going into the money market for f ome years, and the prosecution of railways in a reasonable manner, H« was not indifferent to the question of r;>Hcnl r"trinrhment. He was prepared to as&ist ia doiug that,
but he would ask those who had the courage of their opinions to say they would not support the Government in this retrenchment policy till they knew what their policy was to be. He explained that the Opposition did not intend to debate the question, but would walk out of the House till it was disposed of. He emphatically declared that if the Opposition thought there was any possible chance of forcing the Government to revise the tariff this session they would not take the action which they intended, but they would do so as a protest against the action of the Government.
Sir J. Vogel and several other members then left the Chamber.
The Hon. MAJOR ATKINSON said the House had had good evidence of Sir J. Vogel's courage and courtesy. He claimed that the Government had treated the hon. gentleman with every consideration during the session. He denied that the resolution Sir J. Vogel had threatened to bring down would in any way settle the difficulties of the country. It was alleged by that hon. gentleman that the House desired to revise the tariff; but he (Major Atkinson) had given him an opportunity, and he had not the courage to face it. With respect to Sir J. Vogel's new scheme, the reason he had not brought it down was because he had no such Bcheme. If he had such a scheme, would not his followers instantly ask that it should be produced ? Notwithstanding that Sir J. Vogel had described him (Major Atkinson) as having lost his power and ability, he admitted he had the power to make the House laugh at his schemes. He asserted that the country had Md enough of Sir J. Vogel's schemes. He pretended to be a leader, but where was his leadership ? One thing the hon. gentleman had done : he had led the country iuto ruin. As to his reference to 1874, he would at a future period expose the condition of the finances when Sir J. Vogel left office in 1874. He referred again to the action of the Opposition, and said it was evident a feeling of ehame was apparent in their faces as they followed their leader out of the House. Sir J. Vogel had stated ib was puerile not to revise the tariff this session ; but no one thought he was an authority on tariffs. As to the statement of the member for Invercargill that a tariff could be framed in seven or eight hours, he (Major Atkinson) felt convinced ib would not take the House seven or eight hours to deal with a tariff prepared in that time. If the tariff were to be revised at all (and the Government considered ib should be revised), it should be done with the greatest care. He contended that Sir Julius Vogel's continued references to the Auckland members showed that he was not actuated by a desire to see the tariff revised, but was merely endeavouring ts bring those members into disfavour with their constituents. He (Major Atkinson) stated that the Auckland members were anxious that the tariff question should be fully considered with a view to bringing down satisfactory proposals. At to the Government having kept their policy back, he hardly knew what that charge meant, as ho considered full details of policy were brought down in the Financial Statement. Notoriety at any cost was what Sir J. Vogel wanted at present. If he did not achieve that notoriety he would disappear from the political life of the country. He considered Sir J. Vogel's statement that he had carried out the promises he had made was an insult to the intelligence of the House. They were told the hon. gentleman had a great scheme, which he was afraid to propose because he (Major Atkinson) might laugh at it-. He would ask how such a statement would be received by sensible men in the country. He referred to the efforts made by Sir J. Vogel to form a coalition with his side of the House ever since his defeat by the country ; but when he (Major Atkinson) Jxeard him state last year that retrenchment was a sham, he felt that it would be traitorous to coalesce with him. If Sir J. Vogel possessed such a scheme as he claimed to have, why did he not divulge it ? He asserted that never in the history of the colony were the finances in such a position as for the last three years; and the reasoa why the price of our funds was so low an the English market i was because the state of our finances -wa\ fully known at Home. Having failed by every possible means to effect a coalibion, Sir J. Vogel now turned round and charged the Government with having brought him into disrepute. His speech that day had put him out of court altogether, and the Government would show him no further forbearance. Referring to Sir J. Vogel's remark* as to his (Major Atkinson's) spreading distrust of him, he wished to say he had never eaid an unkind word of him during this Parliament either to his own party or to the Opposition ; on the contrary, he had defended him on aaaay occasions. He felt he could not possibly coalesce with that hon. gentleman, and he had informed his Excellency when he asked him to form a Government that on no condition could he form a coalition with Sir J. Vogel. He hoped that after the division on this question had taken place the House would address itself to the necessary work. He considered the present Parliament had already done a great work ia displacing the late Government, as the first duty of a Parliament was to secure capable men to administer the a/Fairs of the country. The motion was then put and carried by 44 to 4.' The following is the diyision list ; — Ai'jiS, 44 — Messra Allen, Anderson, Atkinson Btirron, Beetham, Bruce, Buchanan, Carroll, Cowan Fergus, Fisher, Goldie, Graham, Hamlin, Hislop, Hobb3, Hodgkinaon, Izard, Jackson. Lawry, M. J. o. '.■Mackenzie, Marchant, M'Gregoi 1 , Mills, Moat, Newman, O'OJoror, Peacock, Pearson, Hhodes, G. F. Itichardsoji, Koss, Samuel, Seymour, Steward, Mentoath, Tajwhanga, Tanner, R. Thompson, T. Thompson, Valentine, Whyte, Withy. Noes, 4. — JOuncan, Feldwick, Fitzherbert, Stewart. .GOVERNOR'S SALARY AND ALLOWANCES. The Hon. Major ATKINSON moved the secand reading of the Governor's Salary and Allowances Act Amondment Bill. He referred to the possible objection that would be made to the bill— that the reduction of the Governor's salary would cause the solony to lose influence with fc&e Home Government,— but it was proposed to continue the salary afc $5000 a year. The Governor was allowed £1000 a year travelling allowance, and £1600 for maintaining the Governor's establishment; but the bill .proposed to abolish these allow&npes and to continue the | salary at £5000— the .Governor to provide his '• own allowances. He held that their first duty was to isee hojy much they .could $#ord to pay, aud he ventured to say £5000 a year was ample for a Governor to receive in the .present circumstances of the colony. Mr £EDD(JN thought the debate should be . .•aftjfaumed till after the conclusion of the Finan- " .eial (kbate.
The ffon. Major ATKINSON said Government hail brought in the bill as the debate on -the Financial Statement seemed to have died a eaatural death, *ud the Government wished to •briag down their bills in order to send them to tthe other Chamber.
Mr SEDDON then moved that the debate «be adjourned till tie Financial debate was finished. He ridiculed the idea that taking $2500 off theealary of the Governor constituted the details ot tiie ntrjnchment scheme which they had heard so much about. He hoped ihe would couseut to postpone this bill
with a view of proceeding with the financial discussion.
The Hon. Mr FISHER said there was no pleasing the Opposition. Hitherto they had complained that the Government bills were not brought down, but now that the Government desired to go on with their bills the hon. gentlemen opposite wished them postponed. He told the Opposition that the Government knew perfectly well they did not want the business to proceed, and he reminded them that every sitting day of the session cost £400, and every day the retrenchment proposals of the Government were put off would probably cost £600 more ; so that it was fair to assume the expense of every sitting day was £1000. At present it was perfectly evident that certain gentlemen on the opposite side did not want any of the policy bills to pass this session.
Sir J. VOGEL made a personal explanation, as he wished to state that he had never made any proposals for a coalition with Major Atkinson. If any friend of his had done so, it was not done with his authority. On the contrary, when the Government was defeated he (Sir J. Vogel) stated that he should not again assume office except as Premier He did not consider any coalition with Major Atkinson as at all desirable. Referring to Mr Fisher's remarks, he disclaimed on behalf of the Opposition that they were actuated by a desire to prevent the business proceeding, but the whole difficulty arose through the Premier not getting the financial debate concluded. He intended to support the bill under discussion, but he strongly recommended that it should be altered in committee. If the bill passed as it stood, there would be no end of disputes, as in former years, about travelling allowances. The salary should be fixed at £4000, and £1000 for allowances. It would be far better for the colony to have a young Governor at £4000 than to have one who would be only within a year or two of receiving his pension. He should support the bill, bub hoped this alteration would be made in committee. Mr SEDDON withdrew his amendment. Sir G. GREY said the question of the reduction of the Governor's salary showed the position the colony had got into. He did not altogether blame the late Government for the present condition of things. The present Premier was more responsible for it, perhaps, than any other man in New Zealand, as he had been guiding the Government who had principally led the colony into its present difficulties. He taunted the Premier with now proposing what he had opposed when ib had been brought forward by his (Sir G. Grey's) Government — namely, the reduction in Ministers' salaries. There was nothing of permanence in the present proposals of the Government. The Premier was leaving untouched a mass of excesses. Why was nothing done in connection with Government insurance? The Hon. Major ATKINSON here stated he intended to deal with it. Sir G. GREY said it was a pity that nothing had been said about it till now. He complained that the present Premier had given a salary of £800 a year in that departmnnt.
The Hon. Major ATKINSON reminded Sir G. Grey that he had promised it, but refused it after making that promise.
Sir G. GREY continued to refer to the Financial Statement, and reviewed the property tax at some length. Ho held that larger reductions could be made in the House than Ministers proposed. Fifty members, in his opinion, were quite sufficient, and he pointed out that there were only 325 members in the Senate of the United States for 60,000,000 of people. The salaries of officers of the House were also too high, and should be reduced. He still thought four Ministers should be sufficient to carry on the government of the country.
Mr WALKER said if the Premier would consent to finivsh the Financial debate his bills would proceed in a more satisfactory manuer.
The Hon. Major ATKINSON could not agree to the proposal. The Government must conduct the business in the way they thought necessary. He asserted that Sir J. Vogel and other Opposition members failed altogether in their attacks on the Government policy, and he contended that the House could just as well express its opinion on the present bill as on the Financial Statement. The Government had taken their course after due consideration with a view of giving the other House some work to do. He referred to Sir G. Grey's arguments at some length, and pointed out that the officer in the Government Insurance department which he had blamed him (Major Atkinson) for appointing was actually appointed by Sir G. Grey himself when Premier. As to Sir G. Grey's remarks about Ministers' salaries, he (Major Atkinson) quite acknowledged that Ministers were not too highly paid, but he recognised that the circumstances of the colony were such that reductions were necessary. He was greatly disappointed at Sir G. Grey's speech, as he had thought from his recent experience he would have made some useful suggestions. He was not aware of the reason why he had attacked him as he had done. He desired to state that when the Estimates were under consideration he should be only too happy to receive any suggestions. The motion for the second reading was agreed to on the voices. JJINISTEHB' SALARIES AND ALLOWANCES, The Hon. Major ATKINSON moved the second reading of the Ministers' Salaries and Allowances Bill. He did not think it necessary to make any remarks on the bill, as the praposal had been before the House for some time. Mr TAYLOR trusted that if the Premier was only to draw £1000 per annum all subordinate officers should be reduced in proportion. It was absurd to suppose that other officers should receive larger salaries than Ministers of the Crown. Sir GEORGE GREY hoped the House would not agree to pass the bill. He believed the proposal was a mere affectation of economy. He asserted that the gentlemen who occupied the position of Ministers in Wellington could not do so on £1000 a year. He said the words jusb used were those delivered by Major Atkinson himself 10 years ago. Mr BARRON hoped no other hon. member would follow Sir G. Grey's example and oppose this desirable reform. He for one would heartily support it ; and he hoped the number of the Ministry would be reduced also, and he should move in that direction. Mr TURNBULL supported the bill, but was sorry the Premier had not exempted himself from its .operation. He pointed out with respect to absentee property that 1140 people in England owned a tenth of the whole taxable real and personal property in 'the colony. The motion for the second reading was carried on the voices. WgLLIN<?T,ON, 29bh NoVESrBEE. THE SEACLJFF DISPUTE. Considerable surprise was manifested this afternoon at the attitude taken up by the Government in refusing to allow Mr Allen's motion >'c the fieacliff correspondence to go unchallenged. As Mr Allen was absent Mr Fish took ■ the matter up, but the Premier gave the House to understand that the Government would not consent to the publication of the correspondence. He did not explain the reason of his refusal, but I have learned that it is in consequence of Drj Neil! having withdrawn his resignation
and demanded an inquiry. The result of the inquiry will be looked forward to with great 1 interest. Dr Neill is still in Auckland, but is I expected in Wellington shortly. MATHESON BROTHERS' PETITION. The report of the Public Petitions Committee on the claim put forward by Messrs Matheson Brothers for compensation in connection with a contract completed by them on the Otago Central line gave rise to some discussion this afternoon. The Public Petitions Committee reported that they had no recommendation to make in the matter. Mr Fish, in moving that the report be referred back to the committee, pointed out that it was a case of peculiar hardship so far as the Messrs Matheson were concerned. He stated that they had lost £2000 on the job, and they only wished to be treated in a similar manner to other contractors on the same line who had been placed in somewhat the same predicament. Mr Ross spoke on the same side, and the report was referred back to the committee on the voices. SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS. No less than 40 private bills have been slaughtered through the action of the Government in taking every day during the session for Government business. It is on the cards, hawever, that special facilities may be aiforded for the discussion of a few private bills. Mr Pyke, who has recovered from his illness, is doing all in his power to induce the Government to give him a chance to push his Otago Central Bill through the House. He thinks that if he managed to get it safe through the popular chamber he will have little difficulty in piloting fche measure through the Council. He anticipates very slight opposition from the Lords. SIR GEORGE WHITMORE. Major-general Whitmore informs me that he intends to take up his permanent residence in England. He purposes leaving'the colony early next year. When he gets properly settled at Home Sir George will publish a comprehensive history of the Native disturbances in which he was engaged. Sir George has the MSS. ready for the press. GOVERNMENT RAILWAY WORKSHOPS. A return was furnished to-day, in response to a motion by Mr D. Goldie, of the nature of the work performed in the Government railway workshops at Hillside, Addington, Petone, and : Newmarket, for the two years ending 31st March 1887, for districts other than Uiosh in which these workshops are situate. It is as follows : — Hillside (Otago), £4950 ; Addington (Christchurch), £44,823; Petone (Wellington), £432; Newmarket (Auckland), £1534. It will be seen what an immense disproportion of work has been done at Addington. Mr Goldie is now moving for a return showing — (1) the names of the districts for which the work manufactured at the Government workshops of Hillside, Addington, Petone, and Newmarket for districts other than those in which such workshops were situated was provided ; (2) a description of such work; and (3) the monetary value of such manufactured articles. GENERAL SCHAW'S REPORT. The Minister for Defence, in reply to Mr Joyce, said the report would be laid on the table of the House as soon as possible, at all events those portions which might be published. Current gossip says one of the features of the scheme will be a coast guard. Naval volunteers will get a small subsidy like the naval reserves, ] for which they will have to undergo a certain amount of training. The permanent force will be made compact, and retrenchment effected without impairing efficiency. It is expected that the officered condition of the force will be altered by reductions in that respect to prevent the present friction and divided responsibility. At present officers are out of proportion to men. SETTLERS' RELIEF BILL. The Minister for Lands informs me that he is preparing a bill for the purpose of giviug relief to deferred-payment settlers. The measure will I provide for the extension of the time of pay- j ment beyond that provided in the act under which they acquired their land. The bill will enable them tojcapitalise their arrears, and it will, according to the Minister, afford them genuine relief without allowing them to repudiate their engagements. THE MIDLAND RAILWAY. The Legislative Council is not inclined to accept the revised Midland railway contract without inquiry, and when the matter came up yesterday the Hon. Mr Waterhouse moved that it be referred to a select committee with a view to obtaining legal advice as to whether the colony was sufficiently protected. The debate on the motion was not concluded. The Hon. Mr WATERHOUSE, in an exhaustive speech, reviewed the history of events which led to the first contract cf the railway line in question. The Government up to May last had carried out on the part of the Government all the concessions asked of the colony, but he failed to see why a new contract should be asked for. The new contract sought to do away with the alternate block system. The change was a startling one, and one which the Legislature would in the initiative never have agreed to. Another important alteration was that as soon as contracts of £60,000 were entered into, land to the amount of £30,000 should be set apart. This he objected to. While these startling alterations were made in the contract, the company gave nothing in return. Two ends of the line might be commenced, but the colony for the concessions they were asked to make would receive nothing in exchange.. The decision he had arrived at was that it would be best to vote against the contract altogether. However, the matter had proceeded so far that perhaps it would be as well to concur with the resolutions sent down to them. He could not help thinking there was something behindhand and dishonest in the matter. He moved — " That the matter be referred to a select committee, more particularly as regarded clause 3, with a view to a legal opinion being taken as to whether the colony is sufficiently protected from claims for compensation ; the committee to consist of the Attorney-general, the Hons. Reeves, Pollen, Oliver, Miller, and the mover." LOANS TO LOCAL BODIES. The Hon. Mr POLLEN moved—" That a return be furnished, brought up to 30th September ult., showing what applications have been made under the Government Loans to Local Bodies Act by local authorities, and which of them have been granted or refused ; what sums have been granted or advanced by local authorities and for what purposes, and the names of such authorities; what sums have been borrowed or raised by the Colonial Treasurer, and what were the then outstanding liabilities and assets." The Hon. Mr STEVENS, said the return would be made as speedily as possible, but he scarcely thought the full return could be compiled this session. The subject, he admitted, was ope of the gravest importance, and would engage his attention.. The motion was agreed to. REPLIES TO QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Hobbs, whether the Survey department cannot through their district surveyor be authorised to certify for payment as soon as wor^ is completed, without settlers having to wait for months for the advent of village stewards]
The Hon. G. F. RICHARDSON said no complaints had been received by the department on ■ the matter of the regulations in force for passing work done by village settlers on their sections. Replying to Mr Buxton, The Hon. G. P. RICHARDSON said 124 ciaims had been received, representing 5247 acres planted, under the Forest Trees Planting Encouragement Act. If the present Land Bill were passed, those persons would be able to exercise their scripts, which at present they are unable to do . In reply to Mr Anderson, The Eon. G. F. RICHARDSON said the ' Government shortly expected a report on the subject of destroying rabbits by introducing contagious diseases. Replying to Mr Joyce, The Hon. Major ATKINSON said it was not intended to require officers who are entitled to pensions to retire from the public service, and the rights of all officers who wished to remain I at lower salaries would be preserved. Replying to Mr Taylor, The Hon. Major ATKINSON said he would be glad to tax foreign bondholders, but it was impossible to do it. The Legislature could not tax property when it got to England. Replying to Dr Newman, The Hon. Major ATKINSON said he could not hold out any hope of considering the matter of entering into negotiations with Fiji for political union during the coming recess. Replying to Major Jackson, The Hon. Mr FERGUS said that when the Remington-Lee rifles were purchased the Imperial Government had not decided on the future arm. The Government had not finally decided to adopt the RemingtonLee rifle. When these were ordered the cost was £3 9s 6d without bayonet, and £3 14s 6d with bayonet. There were 200,000 rounds of ammunition, which cost 7s 3d per 100. One hundred of these rifles were sold to the honorary reserve corps, and 350 were lent for 12 months with the option of the purchase. On the application of Captain ; Sommerville, a further supply of 100,000 rounds ] of ammunition had been sent for to be paid by the Rifle Association. There was no truth in the rumour that this arm was unfit for service ; only one had been returned to store for repairs and another reported injured. THE LAND LAWS. The Hon. G. F. RICHARDSON moved the second reading of the Land Act Amendment Bill. He said that in the Governor's Speech and the Financial Statement stress was laid on the laud administration of the colony, and this bill was brought in from a desire on the part of the i Government to meet the necessities of the j colony in regard to land settlement. He referred j to the various systems of land settlement that j had been in force until at length they had got to land nationalisation, and the result, he considered, had not been altogether satisfactory. At the present time they had available .for j settlement 14,000,000 acres of open and 6,000,000 acres of bush land. He pointed out that in the past three or four years the law had been ad- ! ministered mainly in one direction, and in his own district all their best land had been set apart for perpetual leases only and other portions on deferred payments, while very little was available for cash. One of the effects of this policy was that cash purchasers had been discouraged and in many cases people had left the colony, taking their money with them to Australia. They regarded this as one reason for the unemployed difficulty. One mistake he considered made by the late Minister of Lands was the placing of people on land without capital of any kind, which system could not possibly be very successful. The main feature in the present bill was that a choice of tenure was left to the selectors. This was a mutter hitherto left to the Minister or to the waste land board, and he thought this proposal would tend to popularise the bill. Another point in the bill was the classifying land, while a third was the abolition of waste land boards. It was also proposed by the bill to afford relief to existing settlers. He wished to say that from a monetary point of view the perpetual lease system was probably the best, but it was completely overshadowed by the desire that existed for the acquisition of freeholds. The bill also provides that not more than 640 acres of firstclass land and 2000 acres of second-class could be purchased, so that there was no danger of acquiring unduly large holdings under it. As to abolition af waste land boards, he pointed out that the total cost of these boards last year was £2210, which he considered rendered the boards of too expensive a character for their usefulness. It was proposed to relegate their duties to commissioners of crown lands. With respect to giving relief to existing settlers, he thought the proposal in the bill (section 15) that the freehold of deferred payment or perpetual lease lands may be acquired as soon as prescribed improvements are effected would be a great benefit, which was evidenced by the large number of communications he had already received on this subject. As to the question of a reduction of rent, that was dealt with by the Government in another bill of which he had given notice. He referred to several other provisions of the bill.
Dr HODGKINSON thought the bill was really a very good one, but he objected to the proposal for abolishing land boards, and he hoped that the clause would be withdrawn. All the bill proposed to do for the benefit of the colony would be effected quite as well if boards were allowed to remain as they were. He hoped the abolition of those boards would be deferred till the recess, when the Government would have time to consider their proposals for decentralisation.
Mr JOHN M'KENZIE (Moeraki) was very sorry to have to criticise this maiden effort of the Minister of Lands rather adversely. He was surprised that the Premier allowed bis colleague to bring in such a bill, as it completely reversed tbe system of land settlement advocated by Mr Rolleston. He said the argument that people left this colony because they could not purchase land was a fallacy, as land could be purchased with fencing and other improvements from private persons at a less price than originally paid to the Government. There was no real bona fide demand for land to any great extent, and if Mr Richardson expected to gain much revenue by this bill it could only be done by putting up land at such prices that speculators could purchase it with some prospect of making something out of it when times improved. The whole of Mr Richardson's arguments were that there should be no perpetual lease or deferred payment, but that everything should be sold for cash. He denied that the bill would give any relief to settlers, and would ask whether the de-ferred-payment system and perpetual lease system had not enabled many people to go on the land who could not possibly have done so were it not for the liberal land laws at present in force. He referred at some length to the various clauses in the bill, and said the whoje aim of the bill was in the direction of wiping out the action of Parliament, and declaring that in future there should be nothing but the freehold system. He objected to the proposal to abolish waste land boards, and protested against the enormous power which the bill would place in the hands of the Minister of Lands of the day and of the commissioners of Crown lands.
If the Minister of Lands tried to admini^ the land without the assistance, of land board; he would bring a hornet's nest about his ears He would suggest that land boards might \ elected, and that the election should take pl^ on the same day as the election of members c| the House. He would propose in commit^ that land boards should be elective ; and fe hoped he would have the assistance of even true Liberal in support of that motion. '
Mr VALENTINE said the bill displayed, vast amount of intelligence in its preparation and he knew no gentleman better able to btit, in a satisfactory land bill than the preset] Minister of Lands. The policy of the late & vernment had the effect of driving away peoj^ who desired to settle in the country, but he be, lieved the present Ministry had an honest desire to promote settlement. The bill would provi c ', for honajide settlement, and not hamper it L quack nostrums such as tho legislation of the previous Government had done. He supported the abolition of the waste laud boards, and he only wished that education boards were dote away with as well. He was a believer in the disposal of land by ballot, and he also was i strong upholder of the freehold system. If \^ present bill passed, ho firmly believed the Minister for Lands would be regarded as the saviour of small farmers.
Mr BUCHANAN congratulated the Minister for Lands on the bill he had introduced, & D (J considerpd that all tho most liberal provisions of the existing Land Act were embodied % the present act. It was not at all compulson for people to buy land for cash, the mode of selection being made optional. ■ He agreed that it was a most important principle that the tenure should be left at the option of the pm. chaser. He was not sure whether the abolition of waste lands boards would be a wise provision and he should require further arguments in jtj' favour. He felt sure if this bill passed a large amount of capital would be attracted from the other colonies, and settlement would thereby be promoted. Mr DUNCAN also congratulated the Minister for Lands for an attempt on his part to remedy some of the evils of the present Land Act. He hoped, however, he would not go to the other extreme of the position taken up by the late Minister for Lands. He was in favour of the abolition of land boards, but he wanted to see something better substituted in their place. The area in the present bill was not too mucbj but there was nothing definite as to th« manner ia which the limit of 2000 acres could be selected As to the argument that people left tho colony because they could not obtain land, he had never found anyone who was anxious to gat land and could not obtain it. He was in favour of the optional tenure proposed in the bill, but there was nothing to prevent a man getting two blocks of 2000 acres each adjoining each! other. That was, however, a committee object tion. He should give every assistance to pass the bill with certain amendments.
Mr COWAN said the grand principle of thai bill was that the option of tenure should be left) to the purchaser rather than the Minister, and in that he fully concurred. As to the objection I made about throwing away the public estate,! he desired to say, after 30 years' experience of; the subject, that he considered it would be better for the Crown to part with its laud in the manner proposed by the bill rather than allow the land to be locked up. He was prefctyj well in accord with the general provisions of the bill with the exception of the abolishing of waste! lands boards, as he thought there should be some local board of appeal between the Minister and the people. The commissioner in whom it was proposed to place the duties of land boards was in reality the Minister, which ho thought not a desirable provision. When the bill got into committee he would give it his hearty support, 1 and he hoped the House would assist to make it a really useful measure.
Mr SEYMOUR supported the bill, not because! he approved of all its principles, but because the good points in it predominated over the bad. He was glad to see the tenure of land altered. He could not approve of the abolition of waste land boards, and he hoped the Minister would abandon this clause. He urged that the payment of members 'of boards be stopped alto* gether, as he believed the Government could get just as good men to do the work without any payment whatever. Mr BEETHAM congratulated the Minister for the businesslike way in which he had approached this question, and he hoped the bill would mark a new era in the land settlement of the colony, which had lately suffered so much j from experimental fads of every description. He did not agree with the proposal to limitcash purchases in survey districts to 640 acres. Ho was glad to ,hear that there was such a large area of land in the colony yet available for settlement, and he thought that would show there was no necessity for such measures as the Land Acquisition Bill — a measure which would certainty militate against the prospects of the colony. He held it would be a most unwise measure to abolish land boards, and he spoke with some years' experience as aTmember. The present Minister for Lands he believed to be a hard-headed, shrewd man, but there were some Ministers of Lands whom he should not like to sea possess such power as would be possessed if waste land boards were abolished. He did not consider the sum of £2210 at all too much for the whole of the waste land boards' of the colony, as they did exceedingly good work in dealing i with the settlement of the land. >
Mr STEWARD thought the bill was in many respects a distinct improvement oh the present Land Act, and he commended the Minister for Lands for bringing it forward. He referred to the several clauses in the bill at some length, and said as to the proposal to abolish waste land boards, that lie doabted whether it would not bring with it evils greater than they at present contemplated. It would throw a most es» traordinary amount of work on the Minister, With that one exception, the bill in the main met with his hearty approval.
Sir J. VOGEL could not help thinking that Mr Richardson had not fully realised the effect of the bill, as it meant neither more nor less than to enable the Government to make a forced sale of lands belonging to the Crown. The result of the bill would be war between the landed and landless classes, and if it were passed the inevitable result would be very severe. The gradu* ated land tax in the bill would also encourage dummyism, as under it an unlimited area could be obtained. He pointed out that by abolishing all waste land boards the Minister placed himself above all local control, asd the bill would also lock up all taxable land in the colony. It appeared to him a very 6ad thing that in this hurried manner they should undo the work of years, a they had for several years past been endeavouring to preserve the public estate. The prominent feature of the bill was that the Crown lands of the colony could be sacrificed for the sake of obtaining a little ready money, whereas the facilities afforded to those who really desired t« become settlers were very small. He pointed out that under the bill it would be competent to sell the Canterbury rung, the leases of which would shortly fall in, at 10s per acre, notwithstanding that eight years ago they were worth $ per acre". He thought the bill would put an enormous power in the hands of the Minister,«an<i it was also a bill to encourage land speculation. He hoped the bill would not pass, ia its present
shape. Because of its redeeming features, he i Bhould not move it be read a second time that day six months, but he hoped it would come back considerably altered from the Lands Committee. As it was ab present brought down/it would prove a curse to tho colony. He did not in making those remarks in any way wish to disparage the efforts of the hon. gentleman who had introduced the bill, as it was by no means an easy task to prepare a bill of that nature. Mr FISHER said Sir J. Vogel had shown complete ignorance of the provisions of the bill, all his remarks about the bill being of a rambling character. He wished to say that there never was a more garbling measure than the Land Acquisition Bill brought in by Sir J. VogePs own colleague Mr Ballance. He asserted that the present Government were trying to administer the land laws honestly, and that Sir J. Vogel's mismanagement had caused a material change to be made. He would like to ask Sir J. Vogel what his opinion of the perpetual leasing was when he cared to give it. No member of the Government or member of the House had referred to that system so contemptuously as Sir J. Vogel had in his Ashburton speech. He said the hon. gentleman was a perfect teetotum ; he was this to-day and that to-morrow. His whole remarks were not against the bill, but merely in antagonism to the Government. Mr SEDDON said a more pernicious bill was never introduced into the House, and it fully deserved the remarks of the member for Christchurch North. He held that the people should have an opportunity of expressing an opinion on the bill, and moved that it be read a second time that day six months. Mr TAYLOR seconded the amendment.
Mr GUINESS moved tho adjournment of the debate at 1.20 a.m., as he was sure .several members wished to speak on the bill. Mr FISHER said it was necessary at this period of the session to advance the bill a stage, and further debate could take place ou the motion for going into committee. After some discussion, the motion for adjournment was lost by 38 to 6. The secoud reading was eventually carried by 34 to 4, and the bill referred to the Waste Lands Committee.
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Otago Witness, Issue 1880, 2 December 1887, Page 14
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19,177PARLIAMENTARY NEWS. Otago Witness, Issue 1880, 2 December 1887, Page 14
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PARLIAMENTARY NEWS. Otago Witness, Issue 1880, 2 December 1887, Page 14
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No known copyright (New Zealand)
To the best of the National Library of New Zealand’s knowledge, under New Zealand law, there is no copyright in this item in New Zealand.
You can copy this item, share it, and post it on a blog or website. It can be modified, remixed and built upon. It can be used commercially. If reproducing this item, it is helpful to include the source.
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