Tuesday, June 7. THE LOCAL BODIES ACT AMENDMENT IN THE UPPER HOUSE.

Otago Witness, Issue 1855, 10 June 1887, Page 16

Tuesday, June 7. THE LOCAL BODIES ACT AMENDMENT IN THE UPPER HOUSE.

On the motion to go into committee on the Government Loans to Local Bodies Act Amendment Bill, The Hon. Dr POLLEN said that on the eve of a general election it was better to let the question of the necessity or otherwise of these bills be | settled by the constituents. He was satisfied loans obtained by local bodies would never be repaid, and the colony would have to relieve the ratepayers of their burdens. They could not evict people wholesale if they did not discharge their debts, or rack rent them as in Ireland. He moved that the bill be read that day | six months. The Hon. P. BUCKLEY said Dr Pollen" had been a member of several Governments which had been noted for their extravagance, and Ministers were trying to get the colony out of the difficulties into which it had been launched by their predecessors. The hon. gentleman now appeared to be undergoing a fit of repentance. As for hiß taunts about local bodies, it was notorious that Dr Pollen could not get elected even for a road board in his own district. The Hen. Mr MILLER objected to the tone of the Colonial Secretary. It would be much better if he gave them some argument in place of repeating his abusive nonsense. The Hon. Mr BUCKLEY moved that the words be taken down, which was done, but on the Speaker asking what action he proposed to take, Mr Buckley said he would not press the matter. The Hon. Mr MILLER replied that it was a matter of indifference to him, but later he withdrew the words. He proceeded to say that no one could deny that the colony might be landed ia a financial crisis at any time. He had heard that the very debentures taken from 1 local bodies were negotiated again, in which case the £257,000 already lent might represent a much larger sum. He defended Dr Pollen's action, and denied that he was painting the state of the country in colours too black. Tne Hon. G. M'LBAN objected to the crosstempered tone of Mr Buckley, and criticised his remarks in language which led to his being called to order. He said it was difficult to avoid using terms which did not expose him to transgressingPailiamentary rules. As to the bill itself, all they asked the Government to do was to lock the Treasury doors until after the elections. It was only a matter of a few months. He denied that Dr Pollen had been extravagant during his administration ; on the other hand, he had carried his economies too far. The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS said as far as his personal experience went he had not found that Dr Pollen was an extravagant Minister, but there were occasions when he had not been so careful in the interests of retrenchment as he was now. He adduced various instances of measures introduced for the purpose of limiting expenditure which Dr Pollen had opposed. The Hon. Mr SHRIMSKI pointed to the Roads and Bridges Construction Act and the Crown and Native Lands Rating Act as some of the most corruptive measures ever passed through. He had not heard a whisper against them in the Council. The SPEAKER said such language must not be applied to the legislation of the country un-. less it was sought to be amended. The Hon. Mr SHRIMSKI continued, and said that no one had opposed borrowing more than he, but they must find money for necessary works and to give employment, otherwise there would be a universal cry from one end of the colony to the other. The Hon. R. OLIVER deprecated a tone of mutual recrimination, and begged the Council to consider this or any bill before them on its merits. He commented on the peculiar action of the Government after suffering a defeat in trying to pass bills and develop a financial policy which had been condemred. There was no use dangling words about a borrowing policy. AH sides had united to carry it out, and all sides just now would recognise that it had been carried to excess. He agreed with Dr Pollen that the finances must be reconstructed. The Hon. Mr KENNY contended that in a rush for retrenchment they must not forget that the development of the country was absolutely necessary, and was indeed the only way to enable it to meet its liabilities. He said there was no reason why local bodies which had deliberately made up their minds that they could afford to raise a loan for opening up their land should not be allowed to do so. After some further discussion Dr Pollen's amendment was lost by 17 to 15, and the Council went into committee on the bill. On the motion of the Hon. Dr POLLEN, clause 3, allowing money to be lent to drainage boards, and clause 4, giving borough councils the same privilege, were struck out. A new clause was added, on the motion of the Hon. Mr WILSON, giving power of appeal against the imposition of special rates'. The remaining clauses passed without amendment. A SET-TO BETWEEN SIR J. VOGEL AND MR ORMOND. In the House on Tuesday, Sir J. VOGEL moved the adjournment of the House in order to make a personal explanation with regard to some remarks made a few days ago by the member for Napier in regard to the appointment of the committee to inquire into the Government Insurance Association last year. He denied the statement made by the hon. gentleman that he wished to place himself and his friends on the committee, and said that the manner in which the investigation was conducted showed that Mr Ormond was not fit to try a dog. He pointed out that there were charges against the member for Napier that he had abused his public position for his own private ends, and he (the Treasurer) advised the hon. gentleman to clear himself before indulging in any further mud-throwing. The Hon. Sir R. STOUT corroborated the Treasurer's remarks so far as he knew of them. Mr ORMOND repeated his former statement that Sir J. Vogel wished to be on the committee. He denied that tb,e Treasurer had not been aj-

lowed to state his case to the committee. The hon. gentleman had fair play from. the committee as a whole. As to the hon. gentleman's vile statement that he (Mr Ormond) had charges made against him that he had abused his position, he threw them back in his teeth, and he only wished Sir J. Vogel had the same record. The matter to which the Treasurer had drawn attention was a very small one. What did the public say about Sir J. Vogel's transactions about the railway debentures ? Why, they looked upon them as a public scandal, and the public would never try to say as much about him (Mr Ormond). The Hon. TREASURER replied stating that among other things people had accused the hon. member of using his public position to save himself from paying rents and to get land cheaply, and to get other advantages of a personal and selfish kind. He went into the history of ttie purchase of the district railway debentures to show that his action was justified. ' PETITIONS. A petition was presented to the House to-day from Captain Way, whose house and. allotment were destroyed by the Tongariro eruption last year, asking for relief. The Public Petitions Committee report that they do not consider Wm. Davis, William Walsh, and Hutton, of Arrowtown, have any claim on the colony for extras in connection with their contract for the Skippers road. The committee have no recommendation to make on the petition of Invercargill ratepayers against the waterworks being erected on the town belt. VILLAGE SPECIAL SETTLEMENT. The huge mass of correspondence relating to village settlements which has been laid on the table has very little to do with the matter debated in the House, and the only part of any interest is that relating to John Lundon, who appears to have "bossed" everyone all round, from the assistant surveyor downwards. ,He had an objection to the road overseer appointed, and demanded his dismissal. Mr Percy Smith refusing unless specific charges were made against the overseer (Menzies), Mr Lundon telegraphs that he was responsible for the success of the settlement, and the Minister of Lands had informed him that Mr Percy Smith was authorised to give effect to Lundon's wishes. He had known Menzies and tad proved him a Judas, and an inqury into charges which were made against Menzies exonerated him. Notwithstanding this, Lundon succeeded in having Menzies transferred. THE UNEMPLOYED. By a return laid on the table of the Legislative Council yesterday it appears that in 18841885 a sum of £824 15s 4d was spent for unemployed labour, of which. £785 11s 7d was expended by the Government and £39 2s 9d by local bodies. In 1885-6 the amount was increased to £4793 9s lOd, of which £4447 18s lOd was provided by the Government and £354 11s. by local bodies; in 1886-7 the total expenditure reached £16,628 11s 4d, of which £10.835 16s 6d came from the Government and; £5792 16s lOd from local bodies. The total for the years from 1884 to 1887 (inclusive, and from both sources) was £22,246 18s 6d. THE NEW ELECTORAL DISTRICTS. A very large number of persons, many of whom intend becoming candidates at the coming general election; are making anxious inquiries as to the new boundaries of electoral districts, but of course nothing definite is known. It is reported that the draft plans prepared by the Surveyor-general for the redistribution of representation in the South Island will involve the extinction of the Waikouaiti (Otago), Heathcote (Canterbury), and Picton (Marlborough) districts. Nothing definite will be known until all the commissioners have been consulted. Mr Dobson has arrived in Wellington, and Colonel Haultain and Dr Hislop are expected to-morrow. VILLAGE SETTLEMENT EXPENDITURE. The debate on the large unauthorised expenditure in connection with the village special settlements came on again to-day. It may be said in connection with it that it has been dealt with by various members from different standpoints. First, there was the question of the whole policy of continuing these settlements; secondly, there was the question of the manner in which Mr John Lundon was acting in connection with them at Auckland ; and thirdly, there was the large constitutional question of a Minister largely exceeding the vote authorised by the House. The Opposition proper have devoted themselves to the latter aspect, and the others have been at side issues, in which a few members only have been concerned. Major Atkinson began to-day by asking Mr Ballance for further explanation, particularly as to what he proposed to do in the meantime in the matter, and the Minister at last took the House into his .confidence. He stated that all the figures in connection with last year's expenditure had been prepared for the usual Public Works Statement, but as that had not been brought down the House had not been put in possession of the facts, as would have been the case under ordinary circumstances. The scheme had developed into much larger dimensions than he at first intended, owing to the pressure that had been brought to bear from all quarters to extend the system. The Government had intended to bring down a measure to borrow on annuities at the rate of about £50,000 annually to promote this system of settlement, but if the House wished it, he was prepared to hold his hand in the meantime. He proposed, however, to settle about 150 families in various parts of the colony, and the cost would not ex- ! ceed £6000.- This explanation, especially as' to the future proposals, took the spirit out of the criticism, and both Major Atkinson j and Mr Rolleston accepted the explanation as fairly satisfactory, and stated that if it had been given at an earlier date a large amount of time would have been saved. The explanation had the effect of diverting the debate on the general question of land administration, and on this Messrs Rolleston and Scobie Mackenzie made very good speeches. The latter at the end of his speech dealt with the constitutional point of the unauthorised expenditure. He quoted the only instance which had occurred within the past 25 years in Great Britain, viz, in 1883, when the Post and Savingsßankfunds had been spent in completing the telegraph gystem and a vote of censure was proposed, and an amendment moved by a friend of the Government was carried. In this regret was expressed at the action, and it was affirmed that it was the duty of Parliament to prevent its recurrence. The Premier followed, but he dealt with the land question and condemned the freehold system, contending that if cash sales were continued, when the land was'all sold that would be the time when the land question would really commence. Sir George Grey followed, making one of his characteristic speeches, in which he attacked the Premier and the Minister for Lands. The attack brought the Premier to his feet, and he made a fiery onslaught on Sir George, winding up by quoting a description of a French statesman by an eminent Swiss.

Mr Fergus, who followed, was" very severe on Sir R. Stout for his - attack on Sir G; Grey.*.? The debate then Wandered to and fro,* and Mr Fulton deplored that the last hours of the session should be spent in recrimination. Mr Pyke dealt with the various land sysfcemsY'condemning the deferred payment and perpetual 'lease systems, and contending that the Government landsystem would bring about an analagous state of affairs to that which prevailed in England. He concluded by giving notice of , his intention , to move a.new clause providing that*- only, , a sum proportionate to the, expenditure-, for the year ' should be ' spent by the present Government on any service whatsover. After the supper adjournment Mr. Kerr, who has been a strong Government supporter, rather turned against them, 'and told them and tEe House some plain truths as toTthe waste,, of, time. Several other members spoke on .a Tariety of subjects, and at the time of writing • (12 o'clock) it does not appear as if any progress was likely to be made.. , THE PROROGATION. The date of the prorogation seems at present ■ to be a full fortnight off. In fact a rumour .is current that .the Opposition are desirous of pro- • longing the session for that time, with, a view of turning round and then refusing supplies,' and so • forcing the Government .to resign. ; , Of -course this is ridiculous. So, far as the Opposition are concerned there, is no doubt that a feyv members, "who hold extreme views are quite pre>> pared to support such a proposal, but the, Oppo- , sition as a whole would reject it with scorn. The House has become very disorganised j and , little .< real business .need be expected^ " Members; will , realise this presently, and everything ,\viU collapse. It is therefore probable that the prorogation may take place. on Friday. ( , , ' „.- , A DAY WASTED. <; . This has been another day , wasted. > The Counties Act was read a third time* and passed, and the Mining Act Amendment Bill, quite unexpectedly, passed, its second reading without ■ debate. The debate in committee on <the Public Revenues Bill, though it was at times lively, owing to its personal character, was, after the acceptance by the Opposition -of Mr Ballance's statement, entirely beside, 1 the question, and quite useless so far as it dealt with the question before the House. , The feeling is gaining ground that the House should transact necessary business and be prorogued THE RABBIT ACT. A return was brought before the House today showing the total cost incurred in the' destruction of rabbits within the colony, from which it appears that last year the salaries of the inspectors and others absorbed £13,415, and other charges were £15,631, -making a total of £29,046 as against £28,286 during the previous year. A return was asked for by Mr D. Reid of the gross total of working the Rabbit Act within the counties of Bruce and Clutha, and this is stated to be £1347, the proportion of Bruce county being £628. This seems also to include • the cost of working the Sheep Act. • ' • MISCELLANEOUS. , The Minister of Lands announced to-night in reply to Mr Peacock that the Government had acquired altogether 450,531 acres of land along the route of the' North Island Main Trunk line. Mr Hobbs is not done with John Lundbn yet, and he wants to know why an extended lease for a section at Hokianga, which was valuable, was let to him at a reduced rental while he was 2J years in arrears, and while other leaseholders were obliged to pay their rent in full. ' > The total cost of the Hall trials is understood to be rather less than £3000. LATEST. The Revenue Bill passed through committee a little after 1 o'clock this morning. The'protracted debate in committee wore itself out, and the Public Revenues Bill was reported from committee, the clause proposed by Mr Pyke not being put. Major Atkinson declined to take the third reading, and he wants an assurance from the Ministry that they will make no further nominations to the Legislative Council. There is sure to be some speechmaking on the third reading of the bill, bat now that it has got out of committee the end is not far off. • .< '•

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