EDUCATIONAL., UNIVERSITY COUNCIL.

Otago Witness, Issue 1796, 24 April 1886, Page 1 (Supplement)

EDUCATIONAL., UNIVERSITY COUNCIL.

An adjourned meeting oi the University Council was held on Thursday jtiternoon. There were present : The Rev. Dr Stuart (chancellor;, Mr Justice Williams (vice-chancellor;, the HouW. H. Reynolds, the Han. J. Eathgato, Dr Burns, Messrs J. H. Harris, T. M. Hockou, J. Roberts, J. Macandrew, M.H.R,, J. Fulton, M.H.R., and R. L.Stanford. CHAIR OP MENTAL ASU MORAL SCIENCE. The Chancellor mentioned that the business before the Council was the question of rescinding the resolutions regarding the Chair of Mental and Moral Science. Mr Macandbew : 1 beg Lo move — " That the solution of March 10, adopting the resolutions s, spared by the Committee, be rescinded." My •tu.son for moving that it bo rescinded is, among •'.tiers, that the motion was 110 L adopted by a majority o£ the members present. Had you, Mr Chancellor, given a dulibeiative vole, and voted with the minority, the numb'eis would have been equal; and had you exercised jour (*n.tting vote in. the same direction, the motion would have been negatived. I think the proposals referred to in that motion, are such as it would be very unwise and impolitic to proceed with, unless, at all events, the Council were all but unanimous concerning them. We are asked to apply to Parliament to transfer to this Council rurtuin endowments which are now vested in another public body — a body of geuMemeu representing a large and important section of the community, and I have no doubt that the present possessors of the endowments will not leadily relinquish. I should be ashamed of my fellow countrymen if I thought they would tamely submit to any such proposal. That is one of my reasons. However, there are other reasons that have influenced me ; and one is that, knowing as I do the idiosyncracies of the Parliament of New Zealand and the hetrogeneous elements of which it is composed, I should dread asking them to deal with any of our reserves— either educational or otherwise. There is no doubt whatever that there are a number of men in Parliament who would be very glad to see these reserves applied to making roads in the North Island, just the same as our land fund is being applied now. I know for a fact there are not a few members of our Legislature who are prepared to-morrow to deprive us of these endowments and to put them into the one pot, and to that extent relieving the Colony of the enormous burden which it has now to sustain in connection with primary education. In fact it was only the other day I read in a paper here that a distinguished statesman in this city expressed himself very much in that direction, and I think it would be exceedingly unwise on our part to open the door, as it were, to this part of the Colony being plundered any further than it has been. We have been plundered in the past, as everybody knows, and I think it behoves us at all events not to take the initiative in any action by which we may be still further plundered in the future. Of course there are other reasons in favour of rescinding the motion which might be adduced, but I think I have said sufficient — at any rate I hope I have said sufficient to induce the Council to let things remain as they are. No doubt it is proposed in this report to ask the co-operation and concurrence of the Synod, but I confess that seems to me very much like asking a man to staud and deliver — pointing a pistol at his head at the same time. The position it ie proposed to take up is, I think, altogether unworthy of this Council, and I therefore move that the resolution be rescinded. Dr Bukns seconded the motion. Mr Macandrbw : I think the first step is to rescind the resolution, and subsequently to propose another resolution. Mr R. L. Stanford : If this is likely to go to a vote I would say that I should certainly feel inclined to vote with Mr Macandi'ew did the resolutions propose such an end as that put forward — that is, of removing the endowment from the Presbyterian Church to the University Council. I should like to point out to the Council that the resolutions do not go that length; that there is no proposition to transfer the charge of the endowment from the Trust Board to the Council in that resolution, or anything approaching it. I should like to add with regard to our not doing this or that for fear of some measure the Legislature might take impounding our endowments, that we have very often during the last 10 years had that held out to us as a red flag, and it has always .seemed to me to be the apology or reason set forward for mismanagement of some sort or other — to put money into bricks and mortar or into a stone building, so that it cannot run away. It has always been to do something that partakes of the nature of mismanagement — to part with our funds in a particular way, because if we do not they will be taken away from us. Well, I think it is far better that they should be taken away .from us than that we should misuse them. The Chancellor : You do not propose anything? Mr Stanford: No; I shall simply vote against the motion. Mr Fulton : I have an amendment to propose to Mr Macandrew's motion, and that is — " That the resolutions sought to be rescinded be considered seriatim." It will be in the memory of members of the Council that I said that the great object I sought was to get the law amended so that profossors once appointed should be always under the control, and under the sole control, of this Council. I feel that we complicated the questions very much indeed by the acceptance in a very great hurry of Professor Shand as the sppointee of the Synod ; ,and I confess that I think wo havo been somewhat inconsistent perhaps in refusing to accept "Dr Salmond, when we accepted immediately afterwards another appointment made by the same Synod. It is said that in so doing we .were only taking over one who had been pre.viou6ly appointed ; but still I feel that wo certainly accepted a professor appointed by the

Syuocl without a word bi-in^ said us to holding ovei the appointment i>unl steps hs.d boeu taken to amend the law. I think we ought to be consistent, and I therefore move, as affecting the principal object, the amendment oi the law — "That iLie cliiubto o[ the resolutions sought to Ijo rescinded be consideied seriatim.' 1 ' The amendment was not seconded. Mr Roberts . Will Mr Macandrew indicate in what diiectiui! he means to move if his resolution i-> adopted i* Mr jUacandkdw : My objection entirely is to our going to fjLrh.'.munt with a view of transferring tlic public trust of one body to another. 1 think that is auogaliug to ourselves too much. Mi Stanford, talks iibout mismanagement. Of coui-pc if there were mismanagement and a real grievance to be rectified, I ■-hould not hesitate to go to Parliament, but I do not admit there is any mismanagement at all. Mr Stanford : I did not apply thafc to the Board. MrMACANDRKW: If the resolution is rescinded, then I take it we should have to consider tue appointment of Professor Saiinond —as to whether or not we are to accept that appointment. Mr Roberts : You will remember that in committee I wai with you in voting against the proposed legiblation, and to that extent I am prepared to support you. Mr Macandrew : That id mainly my object. At present I am not going into the question of Professor Salmond's appointment. With regard to to "red rag," it must be known that there have been considerable grounds for apprehension from what we have experienced, and that to some extent our reserves have been confiscated. Take our primary education reserves for example, which would have saved this part of the Colony from the expense of education to a great extent. They have been taken away ; and it was only the other day I read a speech of one of the most distinguished statesmen in the Colony, in which he told the people of the North Island that his blood boiled when he saw the education reserves of the South. I think this is by no means such a light matter as Mr Stanford seems to suppose. If it is the wish of the Council, I will withdraw this motion and take the resolutions seriatim. I have no objection. . Mr Fulton : If these resolutions are not considered, I do not care a straw about Dr Salmond's appointment, and I shall decline to vote regarding it. Dr Hockbn : I move as an amendment — " That the resolutions stand as they are." The Chancellor: Voting against Mr Ma"can» draw's motion will secure that. Dr Burns objected to the motion being withdrawn ; and on the vote being taken Mr Macandrew's motion was carried by five votes to three, Dr Hocken and Messrs Harris and Stanford voting against it. The Hon. W. H. Reynolds : Before proceeding, Mr Chancellor, I should like to speak with regard to some remarks of Mr Macandrew's. I would not like it to go abroad that we have lost our primary education reserves. No doubt there have been attempts made to get them, but we have not lost them. So long as the Government pay the whole of the cost of education in the primary schools, the revenues derived from those reserves are applicable towards reducing the cost to the Government ; but supposing at any time the cost of education should be thrown upon the districts, then those reserves will remain the property of the Provincial District of Ofcago. Mr Macandhbw: There is nothing in the Education Act to show that. The Hon. Mr Reynolds : No ; but there is in the Education Reserves Act. I merely wanted to say that because I would not like it to go abroad that we have lost the reserves, though virtually the revenue from them goes now to the Crown. The Chancellor : The only question now is the appointment of Dr Salmond by the Presbyterian Synod to the Chair of Mental and Moral Science. That matter is before us by a communication from the Synod. The Registrar read the letter notifying the appointment of the Rev. Dr Salmond to the Chair of Mental and Moral Science, at a salary of £GOO per annum, with an allowance of £50 per annum as house rent when required to give up his present residence. The Hon. Mr Reynolds : I should like to ask you, sir, whether it was agreed to by the Chutch Board of Property that he was to have a salary of £600 per annum aud £50 in place of a house ? The Chancellor: It was not before the Church Board of Property. The Hon. Mr Reynold^-. It would appear from the letter that it was, Now the resolution of the Church Board of Property was to I the effect that the salary was not to exceed £000. The Chancellor: Our solicitor told us that the Synod could make the salary what it liked. Mr Macanduew : I think the question before the Council now is : Shall this chair remain vacant or shall it be filled up? Is it to be vacant until the Council itself is in a position to endow it, or shall it be filled by the Synod's appointee ? That is the question. I venture to think that had the, Council adopted my pro- j posal in the first instance, and communicated in the terms of my 'letter with the Church Trustees, the chances are that the chair would have been thrown open to competition. However that has not been done, and it appears to me that we have now just two alternatives, and the question is whether in the interests of the University it would be right and proper that the chair should remain vacant, rather than filled by Dr Salmond. I confess that J, for one, having regard to the interests of the University, am not prepared to see it remaining vacant, and if nobody elso will move that the Council accepts the appointee of the Synod on the usual terms, I take it that he will be just as much under the control of tho Council as any other of its professors. The Chancellor: Oh, yes; there is no doubt of that. Although tho Act of 1866 does

I give the Synod the power, not of controlling the I instruction, but of removing the professor if he should be disposed to be heretical, there is no likelihood of that being done. Dr Burns moved—" That the Council receive Dr Salmoiul as the .Professor of Mental and Moral Science." Mr Macandrew seconded the motion. I Mr Fulton . 1 should like to ask whether it | ia competent for me to move the first four J resolutions of the report at last ■ mertmg as an amendment to the motion. I The Chancellor: 1 ha\e some difficulty in ! ruling on that point. 1 thought the Council ! had coucurred in the verdict oi Mr Maoandrew, I and it seoms to me that I must say the resolu- ! tions are not on the table. | Mr Stanford.- It does not seem to me that there would Oe any objection. The Vice-chancellor.. But supposing Mr Fulton's amendment were carried, the motion would be lost , and he does not want thhc, i 1 think. He might move it as a kind of rider to the motion. The Chairman: I think Mr Fulton might tell us his object. Mr Fulton; My object is this: I am anxious to see this Council standing ia a proper position with regard to the professors, having the power of appointing or removing them only ab its own wish. I think the present state of things is anomalous altogether — that another body should have the power of removing them. Mr Macandrew : That is one of the conditions under which they accept the chair. Mr Fulton : Perhaps the mover would postpone his motion until mine regarding these resolutions has been put. Mr Stanford : They have just been rescinded. It seems to me impossible to move them as a substantive motion. The Chancellor : Mr Fulton's motion is not antagonistic to that of Dr Burns. If the resolutions were adopted it would not prevent the carrying of Dr Burns' motion. Dr Burns : It turns upon this : shall the Council and the Synod come together to get an amendment of the law before or after Dr Salmoud is accepted ? The resolutions referred to, contained iv a previous report of the Committee, were then read. The Chancellor : I thought what was especially negatived was the fifth resolution only. That one I have a great objection to. Mr Macandrkw : I think in considering them again we should be stultifying ourselves. Mr Harris : We have done that already. Mr Macandrew : There is no finality, it seems. The Chancellor : It seems to me there could be complete finality even if the first four resolutions were adopted — although I do not want to see them adopted. There is no reason why both things should not not be done if advisable. The Hon. Mr Bathgatb : I think the resolutions would follow very well after the appointment. A conference between tho Council and the Synod would then be necessary in order to try and remove all chance of future trouble. The Chancellor. : I am unwilling to give a ruling against the feeling of the Council. The Council can settle the question themselves. I am not bound to. Mr Fulton : I hold the resolutions could be carried without touching at all the acceptance or rejection of Dr Salmond. Mr Macandrew: The whole object of rescinding the motion will be defeated if wo proceed to pass these resolutions. The Vice-chancellor : I thought the sting of the resolutions lay in the fifth. The Chancellor : I thought so too. It seems there is an unwillingness on the part of the seconder to yield place to Mr Fulton, so we must proceed to consider Dr Burns' j> otion. The Hon. Mr RuyNOLDS : I should like to say that 1 intend to vote against the motion, for the reason thab I <lo not think that the appointment was properly made. In the first plice I consider that the Church Board of Proporty should have inserted an advertisement with the view of getting the best man that could be got to fill the chair. Then Ido not see b )\v it is possible for Dr Salmond, after the reliiarks he has made at various times, to retain that office, knowing that the appointment was fr.rced on the Church Board of Property and h.is been alho unpopular with this Council. Such b 'ing the case, 1 think in the event of our just r 'fusing to accept his nomination, ho would .'i .' matter of course retire, and then the ('much Board would be able to carry out their oiiginal intention of advertising and getting the b yit man that can be got. That is my reason for voting against the motion, and I trust that Dr Burns will withdraw it; or if not, that the Council will be unanimous, or nearly so, in rej< eting it. Mr Harris: I thoroughly agree with all Mr lxeynol'lh has said, and I feel confident that if Dr Salmoud is tiie man I have always taken him to bo he would not accept office now. In St lf-rcapect — sotting aside the irregularity of the whole proceedings, — I do uot see how any man could accept, and I think the course indie ited by Mr Reynolds is the proper one. Mr Fulton : As I am quite indifferent about thit. appointment, I shall ask you, Mr Chancellor, to excuse me. (Mr Fulton here left the meeting). Dr Hocken : I shall vote against this motion, because I think an important principle is involved. The first duty of the Council is to get the very best man, and the step "that should be taken — viz., to advertise — has not been taken in this caoe. Without saying a word as to Dr Sdlmond'.s capabilities — of which I know nothing — I am aware that the routine has not been followed in this case, and on this ground I shall vote agaiubt the motion. Mr Macandrew: I regret that Mr Reynolds did not givi' expression to his opinions by submitting a motion a couple of months ago on the same grounds. As I said, rather than prejudice the University by allowing the chair to remain vacant, I shall support the motion. The Tlon. Mr Reynolds : I have all along stated the very banie thing. Mr Macandrisw : You did not vote for it. Mr Reynolds) : Mr Macandrew proposed what

was ai: nsn'O?->iinlir.) > he appointment wiualready ma.le. aud he weired to remit it again to the Church Boaul.

Mr Roberts 1 *>liull vote against the motion, and I may express my surprise at reading the proceedings at lu->t meeting of the Council. 11 I mistake not, this motion was moved in committee all tlio member* wero present except che Chancellor aiul Vire-i Un.ncellor, and at that tune the mover ot tin- motion was tke only one who snppoitcl it. MM t > was therefore considerable on ri .idiny the proceedings of la.si meeting to find that a considerable amoupl of support had gone over: from one bide to tho other. Mr lii-AxroßD: The Chancellor, Vice-chf*n-ccllcr, and Mr Bulhgate were absent on the ftf-t occasion. The Vice-chancellor: I am incliiiLu !< support the motion tor this reason : The appointment has been undo by lii'j persons entrusted to make it, and 1 am not prepared to say thnt thp circumstances under winch it wes made are sm-h af> to put upon the Univorsi' >' the duty of inquiring whether or not D. S uruond is a qualified person. At first I a ii\it 1 w.w under tlif impression that thecin.ii ii .tnces were of such a nature that before uwe.'M.g the appointment we should have inquired iuco the qualification;,, but I explained at last meeting my reasons foi altering that opinion. "We cannot, I think, unless there is some special reason, constitute ourselves a court of review to review the appointment which has been made by tlie constituted authorities. 1 think, too, there is a great deal in what Mr Macandrew says — that if we decline the appointment wo shall be preventing the students receiving any instruction in them; subjects. I shall therefore vote for the motion. Dr Hocken : Surely the Synod would proceed at once to elect someone cls.e ? The Chancellor : I am not sare of that. Hon. Mr Reynolds : There is one point I think members' should know. It will become the duty of the Church Hoard of Property to advertise, supposing Dr Sakaoud is not accepted, and submit someone for the approval of the Synod. The Chancellor : Bub the Synod might not vote a salary. I intend to support Dr Bums' motion. One reason is that I took au active part in electing Dr Salinoncl as one of the church trustees, and besides, although. I greatly disapproved of the part the Synod took, and still disapprove of it — I think they acted most unwisely, and that their action tends to prejudice them in the eyes of the community — at the same time I consider it would be a calamity to leave that chair vacant. lam not quite sure but that the result would be that the Synod would just steadfastly refuse to appoint a professor of mental and moral science altogether. I took a part 15 years ago in getting that chair in the University, thinking it was one that would be highly prized by the community and of great service to future professional men and to the education of the Colony, and I cannot allow myself, because of my dissatisfaction at the conduct of the Synod, to give a vote that would practically shut the chair for a time and probably lead to its abolition. Hon. Mr Reynolds : It would lead to the abolition of the Synod having anything to do with the funds in future. The motion was then put, and there voted :—: — For: The Chancellor, Vice-chancellor, Dr Burns, Messrs Macandrew and Bathgate. Against: Dr Hocken, Messrs Reynolds, Stanford, Harris, and Roberts. The Chancellor: It is very unsatisfactory that an appointment should be made on the casting vote of the chairman ; but holding the views 1 do, I must give my casting vote in favour of Dr Salmond. Hon. Mr Reynolds : In Parliament the practice is for the chairman to give his casting vote in favour of delay. The Chancellor : Well, we are not in Parliament, Mr Reynolds. Mr Stanford : It is the usual thing, certainly, for the chairman's vote to leave things in stattt quo. — The matter then dropped. FINANCE REPORT. The Chancellor said he had great pleasure in stating that the treasurer (Mr J. Roberta) had taken extraordinary pains in preparing a report showing the finaucial position of the Council, which report ho would ask him to bring before the meeting, Mr J. Roberts presented the following report :—: — I have now to place before the Council a statement- of tlie income nud e\penditure for the year ending the :Ust March. From this it will be noticed th.it Mm fntal revenue amounts to £0(380 11s lOd, and the expenditure £10,856 4s 10d, showing an apparent deficit of jCimi 13s. This is accounted for by the fact that during tho year ending 31st March 1685 throe ImK years' rents tor Barewood were paid and passed through the accounts, hence only one half-year's le-it. appearing in the statement now before yon. it credit be taken in the past year's accounts from thp ivnt prepaid and appearing in the previous year's accounts, it will be seen that the income ot the past year only exceeds tlie expenditure by the sum ot £S3. As applications have been made by the Council's tenants for an abatement of rent it may be expected that I should indicate what reductions in the, expend'tnio can be suggested, with a view to meeting a considerable shrinkage in the income, which I fear must be faced if the present very depressed times continue. After considering the I'inauce Committee's report on tho proposed reductions, and at fcer having coubulted the Chancellor on the subject, I venture to state what I heliovo can be accomplished without impairing the efficiency of the institution. deductions on the amounts expended during the pabt year on the following : — House allowance to Protessor Sale ... £100 0 0 The Chair of Mathematics being vacant, and a lecturor at £150 salary doinc duty

I have attached hereto a statement showing latfc year's expenditure in black and proposed alterations in ted. The net result is somewhat disappointing, seeing that the total lrductions suggested amounb tn the uot inconsiderable sum of £1446. During tho now currreut year there are some exceptional Items nl expenditure, such as — Coit of books tor library... ... ...£230 Dr Olson's passage-money and sundry ex-pensi-s ... ... ... ... 110 Apparatus for Professor Shand „, ,„ J6O Amounting in all to ... ... ...£4o* vihieh could be saved another year. Against tfai*. however, musi be placed the extra cost of the Mathe .na! ical Chair (£450), which must be filled before Sla* 1, Ibfil. It is a pity (ho Forest Hill property is lying wholly 'iiipioOuutnc, and I suggest that another attempt b> nnili' to secure a tenant, even though the rent oMiiwifiliie snuuld only cover rates and taxes. 1 iii'-uo 1,0 uraw the* Council's attention to the sum .•t~£^j\ ('•=; .-id, being the proceeds of land sales at Furfcjt llill. and which np to the present has not !veu ii.\ei>tcd. Thif= bum is considered by the auditor as capital, wd shoiiUl be invested, and I suggest that it be immediately placed at fixed deposit, so that ifc inavba kept sepurate and distinct from ordinary revenue. I have alao to state that the sum of £311 15s 4d is due to 1 lie Council for interest and rent; and as a considerable portion of this sum has been overdue for some tiiiie, I suggest that the matter be remitted to the Finance Committee, so that they may take the necessary steps to recover the amounts. John Eoberts, Treasurer. April 15,1886. The Hon. Mr Reynolds wished to know how the Council would stand at the end of March supposing the suggestions were carried out. Mr Roberts replied that if the reductions were made and no allowances granted to tenants the Council would finish the financial year with a credit balance of £630. Ths Chancellor remarked that it would be for the Council to consider whether it would • not be necessary to make reductions to the tenants, for tho conclusion he had come to from their statements was that some of them were in c vtremis. Dr Hocken thought reductions would have to be made, because if they were not some of the tenants would be forced to take the benefit of the bankruptcy law. Mr Roberts thought thei«e was a difficulty in deciding whether they were entitled to make ' reductions. The Hon. Mr Reynolds was favourable to fair reductions being made, but he could not see how such reductions could be made, seeing that the Government had declined to reduce the pastoral rents of their tenants and had recovered all with the exception of a few hundred pounds, for the recovery of which instructions to sue had been given. Mr Stanford suggested as an equitable way of dealing in the matter that the loss of the tenants should be ascertained, and an amount equivalent to one-half of that loss remitted. It was agreed that tho report and papers should lie on', the table and [be brought up for consideration at the next meeting of the Council, and that the Finance Committee should get the solicitor's opinion regarding th« applications for reductions of rents made by Messrs Bethune and Orbell. ANNUAL HEPORT. The draft of the annual report of the Council of the University for submission to the Government was read and approved, Mr Macandrew being requested to prepare for addition to it a paragraph dealing with the question of the School of Mines.

Fees payable to lecturers— £ aw - ... ...£5O Surgery ... ... ,„ 50 Assistant mathematics ... £95 Chemical laboratory ... ... 50 „ . , — 75 0 0 Museum maintenance „, <§1 200 0 0 Apparatus and chemicals ... ... 3uo 0 0 Furniture and fittings „, 100 0 0 Law costs ... fl , ti " 75 0 q Water, fuel, and lighfc ... .','" 25 0 0 Increase ot rent of Castle street house ... 21 0 0 Total reduction .... , .■ei.i.tfl 0 0

iM'I'KA&KS: Cost 9 of books for library ... £230 County rates clue, but not paid 40 hi Ogson's salary ... ... 200 Passat-money f< >i> jq SundriP6, advertising, &o. ... 40 Additional for a lecturer on midrtitay ... ... ... 66 Appaiatus for Professor Shand... 160 ]{uduet.ions in allowance by Governmeut fox- chemicals ... 100 \ 896 0 Net reductions ... ,„ £550 0