THE DUNEDIN WATER WORKS COMPANY.

Otago Witness, Issue 1031, 2 September 1871, Page 1

THE DUNEDIN WATER WORKS COMPANY.

PUBLIC MF.BTINt; AT THE MASoXif HAIL.

A meeting of the citizens was held in the Masonic Hall on Friday, the 25th ult., to consider the proposed amendment of fcheDimodin Water Works Company's Act. His Worship the Mayor, on the motion of Mr Mercer, was elected to preside.

The Chaikmax, in opening the proceedings, said : Gentlemen, perhaps it will somewhat simplify matters if I road the amendment*, proposed to bo made in regard to the "Water Works Company's Act, 18li~ ; also the objections which have been taken to the new 15111. At tin's stage of thu proceedings, I do not intend to make any remarks on the subject. 1 shall merely read tin.- \arion> clauses ■without comment. Section 24 of the Coinpam'-; Act, IKtiJ, js as follows : —

A valuation «h.ill be made from time to time if thy Cuiujiuiiy think lit of the iiuun.il value of all houses and tenements opposite or coincident to which pipes for the- comeyanue of water shall have been laid by the Company. The Corporation propose to amend this clause by adding the words —

And in no ease shall the valuation of any such property house or tenement exceed the valuation charged for the time being by the City Couucil of Dunedin. The mode of valuation adopted by the Company is in excess of that adopted by the Corporation, who think it would only bo fair that the Company should be restricted to malting the same charge as that made, by the- Corporation.— (Applause.) Sub-section 5 of section 28 of the Company's Act of 1804 provides that

]n every dwelling-house in which there shall be a water-closet or bath supplied with water under this Act there shall l>c charged and recoverable bj the Company in addition to the rates hereinbefore mentioned for overv such water-closet or bath a sum not exceeding £8 a year. Provided always that the Company shall not be compelled to supply any water-closet or bath or the apparatus or pipes connected therewith respectively unless the same respectively be constructed and used so as tv prevent the wa^te or undue consumption of the water of the Company and the return of, foul air or noisome or in**

pure matter into the mains or other pipes belonging to or connected with the mains or pipes of the Company. Provided also that whenever the amount receivable for dividends interest bonus and profit by shareholders in the said Comp.mj shall in any year amount to £20 per cent, on the paid-up capital the ratcb thereafter to be levied shall be reduced and it shall be the duty of the Company to reduce the same so that the said total profits including dividends interest b i mis and other profits shall not exceed £20 per cent, per annum on the said paid-up capital. The Corporation propose to amend this sub-section by substituting £2 for £8 in respect to any bath or water closet. — (Applause.) The Corporation also propose to .substitute in place of £20 per cent. 121 pur cent. The Corporation considers that •£20 per cent, is too large a sum for the Company to receive before it is compelled to reduce the rates levied upon people's properties. — (Applause.) The next clause in the old Act which the Corporation propose to amend is the forty-eighth. It reads as follows : —

No Justice shall be disqualified for acting in the execution of this Act by reason of his being a shareholder in the Company or a ratepayer under this Act or being liable to payment of any rent or other charge under this Act. It is proposed to amend this clause by .striking out the words " a shareholder in the Company or a " in the second line, and by adding the words following " but no justice being a shareholder in the Company shall be qualified so to act.' The Corporation, it will be seen, propose to ani end the forty-eighth clause to the extent of preventing any Justice of the l J eace or gentleman who may have a large interest in the Company from adjudicating upon appeals against the assessment of the Company. — (Applause.) Then it is proposed to ask Parliament to allow a new clause to be introduced in the Company's Act Amendment Act of 1871, exempting from the payment of water rates " School houses, whether public or private, xised only as schools." There is also another clause which the Corporation propose to get inserted. It is as follows :—: —

Thai the Company introduce a clause into the Amendment Act giving the City Corporation of Dunedin the option of at any time purchasing the Company's whole works and undertaking at a price to be iixod by mutual arbitration and an umpire. Any valuation (ixed by two .such arbitrators and umpire to be iinal and binding upon the Dunedin Water Works Company and the Corporation. li is proposed to insert that clause, so that if at any time the rates of the Company are felt by the citizens to be oppressive, it will be the duty of the Council to step in and say ' ' We will buy these works from you." In that way we shall be able to protect the citizens. Those are the whole of the alterations which the Corporation propose to make in the old Act (if the Company. I will now read to you those clauses of the Amendment Act of JB7l which the Council seek to amend. Section five of the Amendment Act reads as follows :—: —

In the event of any person or persons desiring to appeal from the decision of the said Company in disallowing wholly or partially any appeal against the said valuation ah provided by the 27th section of the said Act such person or persons shall give notice in writing of bit, or their intention so to appeal to the Clerk of the said l'e&ident Magistrate's Court in Dunedin aforesaid and to the slid ( 'ompany and the said clerk shall appoint a time and place for the hearing of .such appeal and secure the attendance of two or more Justices of the Peace residing or usually Officiating in Dunedin to hear and determine the same. We propose to add to that clause the words. "Such Justices arc not to ha\e any beneficial interest in the affairs of ihe Dunedin Water Works Company." Clause eight of the Act 1871, says ;—; —

Messuages and tenements other than dwelling "louses in which the quantity of v ater usually or likely to be consumed i& or may be greater than the ordinary supply of water for or the consumption of water in dwelling houses, of equal value shall be subject to buch special rate on the annual value as the Company may think fit to impose, and as may lie agreed to by the owners or occupiers in addition to the rating on their annual value as provided by sub-sec-tions one, two, ami three, of section twentyeight of the said Act. The Corporation propose that this clause should be struck out, as it considers that sub-section four of section twenty-eight of the Act of 18(54 fairly meets all the equities of the case therein dealt with. I may tell you that the object of this is that under the Act of 1804, it is specified in the clause referred to that for any buildings which are of a rateable value, and not used as dwelling houses, a .special rate may be ii\ed ; and where, if the quantity of water used is more than used in a dwelling house, the occupier shall be charged more, and if the quantity be less, the owner or occupier of such property shall have it in his power to apply for a reduction. In the amended clause the word " less" has been

carefully omitted, thus taking away the power to ask the Company to charge less. Section 7 reads as follows :—: —

For the word "houses" in sub-sections 1. 2, and 3 of section 28 of the said Act. the words "messuages or tenements' shcill be substituted or read. It is also proposed to strike out this clause altogether. As far as we have been able to ascertain, the words ''messuages or tenements" mean that the Company shall have the power to charge not only for the ground on which a man's house may be built, but that it may also do so in respect of a piece of ground adjacent. That is to say, if a man lias a house and a tolerably large garden, the Company may charge him more than if he had a house or a garden alone. The Council is of opinion that if the Company is allowed to charge the house in which the water is used, that is quite as much power as it ought to have in that respect. The next clause which it is sought to amend is clause 9. It reads as f ( illoavs :—: —

In lieu of the 20th section of the said Act, which is hereby repealed, it is enacted as follows : — An ordinary supply of water, or a supply of water in respect of which no special rate shall be claimed or payable shall not include a supply of water for railway purposes public baths wash-houses cattle or for washing horses or carriages kept for hire or for ornamental purposes or for any machinery steam-engine mill manufactory brewery distillery coach-house stable cellar vault or for any other like purpose whatsoever. The Council propose to amend that clause, ■so that no charge can be made for the .supply of water to any public baths, wash-houses, fountains, or for watering the streets of the city. The Council also propose that the charges in respect to " ornamental purposes" should be struck out. With regard to the fountains, I may say the Council think that if the Company have such large powers given to it by the Colonial Legislature, it is only fair that the citizens should look for some return ; that if water is required for public baths, wash-houses, and so forth, it should be supplied free of charge by the Company. Had the Company met the Council in a i liberal spirit some time ago, and consented to supply water for public baths free of charge, public baths would now have been an institution in the city. Then, again, we think that the Company ought not to be allowed to make a charge for watering the streets during the summer season. To show what might be done by the Company if it chose. 1 may state that on one occasion one of the officers of the Company threatened that if the Council did not do a certain thing, the water used in watering the streets would be charged to the Corporation. The Council therefore thought that the powers of the Company ought to be limited, and that in return for the large privileges which the Company possessed, some privileges ought to be conceded to the citizens. About the words " ornamental purposes," I do not think we need care much, because from some conversation which I had with Mr Dick, the Secretary of the Company, it does not appear that they bear the meaning we thought they did. The twelfth clause refers to the thirty-eighth and fortieth sections of the Act of 18G4. The Corporation propose to retain that clause, but to strike out of the 12th clause of the Amendment Act the word "fortieth,"' which refers to the following :—: — The works shall be completed within five years after the passing of this Act and on the expiration of that period the powers by this Act granted to the company tor executing the works or otherwise in relation thereto shall cea&c to be exercised except as to so much of the works as are then completed. The effect, I think, of that, subject, of course, to legal opinion, is that if this clause is retained in the Act, the Company will not have the same powers for any future laying of pipes, in compulsory rating, as it has at present. Another thing, too, that will affect the Council a good deal is, that instead of the Company being able, as heretofore, to cut up our streets, and leave them in a disgraceful condition, it will have to obtain power, in that respect, from the Corporation, and it ' will also be subject to the surveillance of the Corporation, to a greater extent than at present. At the present time, the Company can cut up the streets as it likes, and, as # far as lam aware, it doea not hesitate to avail itself of the opportunity. Section 13 of the Amendment Act of the Company is as follows :—: — All rates payable to the said Company shall be payable in advance by equal or proportionate (quarterly payments on the first day of J anuary the first day of April the first day of July and the iirst day of October in each year ; but it shall be lawful for the directors of the said Company by any regulation or bye-law to be made by them to require such rates to lie paid in advance by half-yearly instalments on any tuo of the days'heroinbofore appointed. The pioduction of any public newspaper or gazette purporting to contain a copy of such regulation or bye-law signed by any two of the directors and, countersigned by the Secretary

for the time being of the said Company shall be conclusive evidence in any court of judicature of the making of such x'egulation or bye-law and of the due compliance by the said Company with all formalities necessary to the validity thercot : provided that in the event of any messuage or tenement becoming liable to a water rate during the currency of any of the quarterly or half-yearly periods hereinbefore mentioned a proportionate part of the rate payable in respect of such messuage or tenement to be calculated with regard to the unexpired portion of such quarterly or half-yearly period shall be paid hi advance on such liability accruing. The object of that clause is really to enable the Company to collect its rates halfyearly, and it is one of the clauses which the Council thinks it ought to resist in the strongest manner possible. The Council thinks it is quite enough for the citizens to have to pay rates quarterly; in fact, it seems rather hard that the Company should seek to endeavour to make unfortunate ratepayers pay rates six months in advance for an article which they are only using day by day. — (Applause.) Clause fourteen of the Amendment Act refers to Distress Warrants. It says :— The warrant authorised to be issued by any Justice of the Peace under the 4oth section of the said Act may be issued r,r pa rtc and without notice or summons to the person or persons whose goods are to be distrained and levied upon. The Corporation recommend that this clause should be struck out altogether. — (Applause.) They consider that the Company should not have the power to do anything of the kind upon an <'„■ pctiie statement, and without notice or summons. — (Applause.) Section fifteen says: — The liability of any messuage or tenement, or of any person or persons on account thereof to any rate hereby or by the said Act imposed shall not be defeated barred or suspended by reason of the said medMiage or tenement being or becoming unused unoccupied vacant or untenanted. The Corporation also recommend that that clause should be struck out. It has also been proposed that provision shall be made that all public places of worship, and all buildings used as schools, shall be exempted from water rates. The words, ' ' and parsonages, "' were originally inserted, but it was afterwards recommended by the Committee that they should be struck out, because they considered that if the water was used it would be unfair if the rates were not paid. These are all the alterations the Corporation have proposed, and I may tell you that they have not prop< >sod them from a desire to be obstructive to the interests of the Water Works Company, but have so acted in the interests of the citizens. The Water Works Company itself has raised this question by seeking further powers from the Legislature, and it is therefore quite , fair for the Corporation to take advantage of this opportunity to seek for the redress of what they deem to be detrimental to the interests of the body politic. I have read these resolutions so that the promoters of this meeting may understand what it is the Corporation have done, and see whether it meets their views entirely, or whether it may be desirable to alter ; them. The Corporation will, no doubt, ; be glad to take into serious consideration whatever recommendations this meeting ; may make. I will now call upon Mr R. : Paterson to move the first resolution. ] Mr Patehson : Before moving this re- ! solution, which has been placed in my I hands, I wish to say that I fully concur , with the remarks made by the Chairman, ] who has gone very elaborately into the ] question of the alterations proposed by the City Council to be made in the additional powers sought to be obtained by ! the Water Works Company. 1 will now read to you the resolution which I have to propose. it is as follows :—: — ' " That in the opinion of this meeting, it is not desirable that the powers and pri- ; vileges of the Dunedin Water Works Company should be extended beyond those given by their present statute ; and ( this meeting hopes that their Reprosenta- ( tives in Parliament will, by every means, • oppose the further powers of taxation and increase of monopoly which the Com- ■' pany is now endeavouring to obtain by 1 another private Bill." As the Chairman ] has gone so fully into the question, I ' \ need not say very much upon the sub- ' ject ; but there is no doubt that these new clauses proposed to be made law will be found very obnoxious, more especially the i one empowering them to sell off the pro- ' perty of citizens without first appearing before a Magistrate. — (Applause.) > T (U doubt the Water Works Compauy de _ serves the thanks of the city at V ir o-e (hear, hear)— for the protection afforded in case of tire. On th**t account, our feelings ought to be with the Company. But still, I think the power? possessed by it are quite large enough. A Voice : Too large. — (Applause.) Mr Patekson : I don't say they arc too large— (yes, yes)— but I think the Directors of the Company ought to, be well satisfied >vith, the po.wer/5 they possess —

L I (hear, hear) — without seeking for more, •/ 1 think it is but right that we should ■' strengthen the Mayor and Corporation to J the utmost in resisting these further ' powers sought to be obtained. — (Hear, \ hear.) I therefore move the resolution. : Mr M. MohS seconded the resolution. '< Mr Giuhaai then proceeded to move an ; amendment, and after he had been speaking for some time, The Chairman said he did not think L it would be right to accept an amendment moved by anyone who was not a ratepayer, and furthermore he believed a re- ' solution would be moved during the ' evening which would effect Mr Graham's object. Mr Graham then attempted to proceed 1 with his speech, but the meeting refused : to hear him. Mr Robert Gillies then came on to the platform and said, Mr Chairman and '■ gentlemen, I believe this is the iirst timo I have appeared upon a public platform, so I appeal to you to give me a patient hearing. There is a good deal in the resolution which I would endorse, but there are some things in it which I should not be doing my duty as a citizen if I allowed to pass without some remark. You all know I am a Director of the Water Works Company — (hear, hear) — one of those horrible individuals who arc only to be cried down and hooted. — (Oh, oh, hisses, and confusion.) The Chairman : I trust the meeting will give everyone a fair hearing. It is not by preventing a gentleman who is opposed to you from speaking that you will gain a good cause. Mr Gillies : I am sure I did not intend to hurt anyone's feelings, but I say I am quite sure that if the promoters of this meeting and the Corporation had waited for an explanation from the Dunedin Water Works Company, they need not have called this meeting. — (A "Voice : Nonsense.) Some one says that is nonsense, but I will tell him something which will change his opinion. It is now more than two Inonths ago since a copy of the proposed Bill was put into the hands of the Corporation, and it is only within the last fortnight that we received any intimation of any objection whatever. Some objections were sent to us, and the Company appointed a meetingto explain to the Corporation some matters in the Bill, and to do away with some things in the new Bill. We received an intimation immediately from the Corporation, stating that such a meeting could not take place, as some further amendments were to be submitted. These amendments were, therefore, only submitted to the Company this day. Now, I should like to know how the Corporation can state whatis really intended — what the Company wmit to do — without having conferred with the Company. Now, as to the first part of the resolution, I heartily endorse it, and I am sure every Director of the Company will endorse it. — (Laughter, and oh, oh.) I will react the part of the resolution I refer to :—: — " That, in the opinion of this meeting, it is not desirable that the powers and privileges of the Dunedin Water Works Company should be extended bej r ond thoso given by their present Statute. " Now, the Company does not want to extend its powers and privileges. — (Oh, oh, and uproar. ) The Dunedin Water Works Company stands upon this footing. It was started, not as a commercial speculation, as has been asserted, but as a great public boon. — (Oh, oh.) Men put their hands into their pockets and laid out their money A "Voice : What for > Mr Gilliks : For the Ixsnetit of thr citizens. — (Oh, oh, confusion; and ' Voice: Nonsense.) One gentleman r ' ■that is nonsense, but anyone who k>' i" ± the first document issued by the C' will sec there is not one word v ' . • ' .j t , .. t . .- .icntioiieu. about its being a commercial .- ])ecu L lti i on The reasons of its being s ti rtocl ' werc ; these :On account of the enilVmous iu _ I crease in the rate of morta i ity ; the danger arising from b i ±i „ °, i ° ■ t'e, and the consequent heavy msmr The Company was star' ted iv 18(j4 ° ;md the shareholders wer 0 ised £ ceul . per annum for thei i. money . did not get a si> )ence imtil -^^ . md gince tliat time. t] (ml t g cent annum. J J * l l A r hcl : Whose fault was that I Air QILLIESQ ILLIES : xt certainly was not the i,'it of the Company. Under these i '* a'cumstances I do not think that in fairness the powers possessed by the Company can be taken away from them. They laid out their money, and waited for a long time without getting any return, and is it fair or just to turn round now and bay " We must take away their powers " I 1 for my own part am prepared to say that those powers should never have been given to the Water Works Company — (hear, hear) — and several Directors said at the time that they should never have been given. They did everything in their power to get the Corporation to carry out the enterprise,

Ibut they won&d not. After that it was .offered over and over again to the Provincial 'Government, but they would not >uccei# Ht. A greater mistake was never ■■coiwmitted by any public body than was -committed by the Corporation of that day — (hear, hear) — when it refused, at the urgent request of the Company, to purchase the property. The bailiffs were ready to take i>ossession of the Company's property, and we were compelled to make other arrangements. Those gentlemen who came forward then and saved the Company have a right to be protected, and I am quite sure from what 1 know of the citizens of Dunedin, that they will never repudiate any rights or privileges granted under such circumstances. — (Hear, hear.) I have shown that you ought not to take away the existing rights and privileges possessed by the Company ; and, n-.oro than that, I say you cannot take them away. Such an attempt will or.; lV result in additional taxation being \evied upon the City.— (Oh, oh,_ and co, nn f vs jon.) Of course, you don't believe : iif i^t if you will permit me, 1 will r, rove -"" k * Voice : We would not submit to it. Mr Gillies : As you know, this Company are at present in receipt of a certain amount from the Provincial Government, and the principal reason why this Company have gone in for this new Bill is with a view to relieve the Provincial revenues of that charge. If there is any attempt made to interfere with the past privileges and liberties of the Company, the Company will drop the Bill to be introduced into the Assembly. You cannot get amendments in a private Bill — you must either take it or leave it. If the Bill is rejected, matters will stand as they fire. For my own part, I shall be quite content, and so will the Company ; but the Province will still have to pay the guarantee, and you will find the Council at its next session will put on additional taxation to recoup the amount so paid. That has been tried already, ancj it will be tried again, That is one reason why you should hositate before passing this resolution. The power to raise additional capital is ft privilege you should not take from the Company, A Voice : We have no objection to that, Mr Gillies : Well, if that is the case, this resolution defeats your object. If you pass this resolution as it stands, you simply take away from the Company, amongst other privileges, the power of raising additional capital. — (No.) Therefore I say you should not pass this resolution in its present shape. If you will allow me, I will tell you what the intention of the Company is in reference to this obnoxious clause about distress warrants, and you will see that it is not so dreadful after all, The Company has no intention whatever to carry that to the Legislature. —(Oh, oh.) A Voice : Why does it appear ? Mr Gillies : I will tell you why it is there. In our present Bill, we were fissured by our Solicitor that we had that power ; but it has been held back. A Voice : Never. Mr Gillies : Yes, it has been held back. Mr Joel : It has been put in force against me. Mr Gillies : It may have been acted upon once or twice, but it has been held back. There were scores of cases in which we might have used the power, but we did not ; and if that is not holding it back, I don't know what is. At any rate, the Company struck out that clause, before this meeting took place. — (Oh ! Oh !) xV Voice : Why did you not strike it out in the previous one / Mr Gillies : I do not know that I need take up much more time. So far as the half-yearly rate is concerned, the reason why this was put in was, because a number of citizens — a number of small ratepayers — wished that the rates should be paid half yearly. — (Oh ! oil ! laughter, and cries of " Name.") lam one myself. — (Laughter.) But as there was evidence of a feeling against the clause, the Company struck it out before this meeting took place. — (Laughter, and oh ! oh !) Now, with reference to messuages and tenements. I need not dwell upon the question as to whether the interpretation given by the Chairman is correct or not ; but I ask you is it fair that Tom Styles with his small cottage and little bit of garden ground should pay the full rateable value on his property, while Timothy Snooks, Esq., with his 500 quarter sections and nothing upon them, escapes scot-free \ I say there are land-holders sitting in their comfortable parlours in London — and no one knows this better than I do — who draw large rents from Dunedin, and yet never pay a penny of rates. If we can get any power whatever to assess these absentees you should be the last men to object to it. — (Hear, hear, and applause. ) And further, I ask is it fair that large stores and warehouses — in which perhaps there are only a few buckets of water used during the week — should be charged at a very low

rate, when every man in his private dwelling-house is charged to the full extent? I say that the owners of those large warehouses get the greatest benefit from the water-supply in the protection afforded from fire, and the reduction in the insurance rates. And more than that every person in the province is benefited indirectly by those advantages conferred on the owners of large warehouses, through goods being sold and sent up country cheaper than they otherwise would. I say it is unfair for those men owning large warehouses to come forward and attempt to get a clause put in the Bill which would place all the burden upon the owners of land having wives and children to support. I don't think it is much use going into the question at much greater length, seeing that most of the objections urged by the Corporation are objections against the old Bill. Now I tell you, and I believe every sensible man will believe me, that it is utterly useless for you to attempt to get any amendment of the old Bill.— (Oh, oh.) You can gßt an amendment, but upon what terms ? By compensating the Company, as is always the case in private Bills. I have said already that those powers should never have been given — (hear, hear) — bxit I say they were given in fulfilment of a contract made with men who came forward and saved the Company from ruin, and in fulfilment of what was fair and just to those who have conferred a great benefit upon the city. — (Hear, hear, and applause.) The Chairman* : I do not wish to prevent any one speaking ; but I think it would be well if Mr Gillies would shoi-ten his speech a little, as there are a great many resolutions yet to be moved, Mr Gillies : I will simply move, as an amendment, that the latter part of the resolution, beginning with the words — "And this meeting hopes that," etc, should be struck out. Mr Cuttex, who was sitting upon one of the seats in the body of the hall, then said : I will second that amendment. — (Oil, oh ; confusion ; and cries of "Stage.") The Chairman* : You have already allowed one Director of the Company to speak, and I don't see why you should not let another. Mr Cuttex then got upon the stage, and was received witli applause. He proceeded to say : — It is impossible, if this resolution is carried, that the Water Works Company can extend their operations. — (Oh, oh.) When you say "they shall not extend their monopoly," you simply say there shall be no more pipes laid. A Voice : So much the better. — (Laughter, hisses, and applause.) Mr Cctten* : Well, if the citizens of Dunedin come to that conclusion, I, as a shareholder of the Company, shall have no objection. We shall stand in the same position as before — drawing upon the Government for our guarantee, and laying ! no more pipes ; and I can assure you there is a great number of citizens crying outmost piteously for want of water.— (Hear, hear. ) Nay, more, I tell you that s actually the Lunatic Asylum — (great laughter) — with some hundred and odd people locked up in a wooden building — ! was without the reach of the water pipes, and if a fire had occurred, you would have had nearly all these people burnt to death. The Government saw this so clearly that they actually went to the expense of laying pipes to the Asylum. That shows you what the practical effect of this resolution will be. If you come to the conclusion that it is not desirable the Company should extend their works, put such a resolution separately, and you will shut up the question at once. A Voice : Sell out. Mr Cutten : You cannot. A Voice : There are large profits. Mr Cuttex ; There are not large profits. I can assure you these are the actual facts of the case. The Government have paid to this Company thousands of pounds to make up the guarantee. Under the original Act by which this guarantee is given, the Superintendent and Council have power to levy a rate over the whole city to recoup this ; and I can assure you, a,s a member of the Provincial Council, that the country members will probably insist upon this rate being levied over the city, and the city will suffer in consequence, not only for future but for past payments. The only possible way to get out of this difficulty is by extending the pipes, because every pipe now laid pays from 15 to 25 per cent. , and therefore reduces the amount of rate to be levied over the city. This renders the Company to a certain extent independent of the guarantee, and when the Company are independent of the guarantee, they "will be able to treat the citizens more liberally. One of the great objections to the Company at present is the fierceness with which they collect their rates ; but the reason of that is that the Government are always at our heels, insisting upon our so doing. If you carry this resolution, I believe it will have the ef-

fect of misleading the world as to what yoxi mean ; and I trust, under these circumstances, you will not interfere with the further extension of what I believe to be a very good and excellent work. — (Applause.) Mr Bartox : Mr Chairman and gentlemen, don't be frightened. — (Laughter.) I am about to present you with a little bill — not a bill of my own, but as vigly a bill as ever a lawyer's bill was. The Bill I hold in my hand is an Amendment Bill which the Water Works Company wants to make into law. I hold in my hand this Bill, and I shall endeavour to throw some cold water upon it if I can. You were told by the very able gentleman who first addressed you on behalf of the Water Works Company, that the ComI pany was first started by a number of gentlemen who at that time did not see much prospect of profit, and as he has said so, I have no doubt that he was one of those who took shares and started the Company from public spirit. But, gentlemen, lie has also told you to-night that unless you allow this Bill to pass, the Water Works Company must stop. — (No, no.) I may sum Tip his speech in this: "You are taking \is at a disadvantage. The Water Works Company were not allowed to hold their public meeting to show the pxiblic that they meant no wrong ; and the Corporation, after spending months over this matter, now call a public meeting, and take us by surprise." lam surprised if the Water Works Company ever meant to call a public meeting to show what it wanted. A Voice : Certainly not. Mr Barton* : I may tell you as a fact, that, although this Bill lias been printed by the printer for the Company, that printer lias not been allowed to sell a single copy, and it has been with the greatest difficulty that a copy has got into the hands of the public. — (Oh, oh.) [Some one was understood to ask if a copy had not been sent to the Provincial Council] Mr Barton* : It was in the Treasurer's office, and although I was a member of the Council I never saw the Bill. It was sent to the City Council, and they acted upon it. A Voice : When ? Mr Barton* : They acted upon it, and in consequence of what the Council has done, the promoters of this meeting were bold enough to call this meeting, in spite of the power of the Company. I will draw your attention to one thing alone in this Bill which ought to cause it to be thrown out. I am not one of those who wish to deprive them of their monopoly if they have one ; I do not wish that their privileges should be I utterly taken away. Whatever they have ! got, let them keep it : but when they ask j for more, Aye have a perfect right to say "You shall not have more, especially when 1 you have acted so illiberally with what you have got." — (Hear, hear.) In the present Bill there is a particular clause which I have no doubt the Legislature put in because they thought it was entirely fair and just. It is this, They have the power of valuing the property of citizens for the purposes of assessment, and instead of their assessment being in accord- ! ance with that of the Corporation, the I Company has practically the light of j assessing the value of houses in any way they please. I had my eyes first opened to this in the Resident Magistrate's Court, when a number of respectable citizens — I mean citizens of large means — being disgusted at the manner in which their holdings were assessed so exorbitantly beyond the Corporation assessment, determined to bring it into Court, and fight some appeals. They did fight some appeals. They beat the Company in every case, and what was the result ? They got a few pounds taken off their rate, and each case cost an average of four, five, and six pounds. After spending that money they got their rates reduced two, three, and four pounds. — (Laughter.) And what was more than that, the Compairy's solicitor told them to their faces, that the Company could do the same thing next year, and weary them out. When they did that, I determined, " I will try to put a little hole in your drum, before you're done." — (Laughter. ) And now what does the Company want ] Amongst other clauses of the present Act, there is this one, which Ido not think is unfair. Where a building is not used for the pm-pose of a dwelling house, if the quantity of water used in such place be more than is used in an ordinary dwelling-house, the Company may assess it at a greater rate, according to agreement. But, on the other hand, if the quantity of water used be less than is used in a dwelling-house, then the Company may make a corresponding reduction. Is not that fair I — (A Voice : No.) At all events, whether it is fair or not, it is the law. Mr Gillies : We were advised some time ago by our solicitor, that such was not the case.

Mr Barton : Well, gentlemen, I am a solicitor, and I advise you that it is. —

(Laughter and applause,) If all tho solicitors in Dunedin advise the Company that what I say is wrong, I give you my advice that I am right. — (Applause.) Now, let me tell you what the Company propose by this delightful little pelican's Bill I have got here. They propose to retain the clause with the "more," but to strike out the, "less." That beats lawyers' bills all to pieces. I see here to-night the head of a late Ministry, a member of the present Ministry, and a sort of embryo Superintendent — (applause and laughter) — all Directors of this Company, and nevertheless none of them can answer that. They have put i in " more," and left out " less." A Voice : Quite right. Mr Barton* : A gentleman says quite right. Perhaps if I were a large shareholder I should see it in the same light ; but being unfortunately only a ratepayer, I cannot see it in that light. I will try my best if they will send me a case to give them an opinion, but I am afraid with the mere eyes of a ratepayer — (A Voice : And of a lawyer. — Laughter.) — that would not be possible. I might say a great deal more upon this subject, but there are other speakers to come after me. Many of you have doubtless examined a drop of water with a 'magnifying glass. We are now magnifying this Company's drop of water. I have already shown you one ugly crawling thing contained in that drop, and doubtless the gentlemen who come after me will show you others. Ido hope you will pass this resolution. — (Applause.) Mr Cargill, who on coming forward was received with applause, said : I occupy a somewhat peculiar position in this matter. I belong to all parties. — (Laughter.) lam a ratepayer and a shareholder and director of the Water Works Company, and also a member of the Corporation. So that if interests pulling in different directions can lead me to take a fair view, I believe I shall be in that position. — (Hear, hear.) I certainly fully sympathise with the feeling on the part of the citizens that there should be no unnecessary extension of the powers of this or any other Company. No doubt the powers of the Company are very largo as it is ; perhaps too large. —(A Voice : Par too large.) But I have always endeavoured to look at this matter of water supply as of much greater importance than it is usually considered to be ; and I do regret to see our Corporation and a number of gentlemen occuping leading positions, while seeking to resist what they consider an unfair encroachment, endeavouring to hold up those who have tried to conduct this Water Works Company fairly as persons inimical to the public interest — (no, no) — as monopolists ; us greedy shareholders seeking to derive large profits by taking them out of the public pockets. — (A Voice : So they do, and ! cries of no, no. ) I can assure you I can see no reason for entertaining such feelings : nor have I such feelings. lam a shareholder to a small extent ; just j sufficient to qualify me to act as a Director ; because I did not feel justified, in the position matters were, in giving up what I looked upon as a public trust in carrying this enterprise to a proper termination. — (Applause.) I was one of those, when the matter was first mooted some years ago, who took as large an interest in the project as I thought myself justified in doing on the part of my firm, and I subscribed at once for 500 shares, and afterwards took up additional shares. I should be glad to know if those who now speak so warmly were equally liberal. — (Applause.) Are not the citizens prepared to award somo credit, and give something like a hearty support to those of their own number who came forward when neither the Go- ! vernnient nor the Corporation could furnish any money, and when it was de- ■ clared to be of the utmost importance to j have a water supply } Are you not prepared to give some hearty support to thoso citizens, and stand by the bargain in its integrity ( To take the original Bill, and i deal with it in the manner now proposed, is perfectly atrocious. I am quite sure i that such a proposal, when fairly examined, will never receive your sanction for one moment. With regard to this i present Bill, one difficulty tlie Company has to struggle with at present is a deficiency of capital ; and in order to meet that difficulty tho Directors had to incur large personal liabilities. This Amendment Bill has now been ir troduced with the view of getting an extension of capital. A Voice : Why not confine it to that ? Mr Cahuill : It was judged a fitting opportunity — (oh, oh, and hear, hear) — it was judged a fitting opportunity to rectify some points in the old Bill which appeared to be dubious. With some of | these rectifications I agree, and with others Ido not. I may say that considering the position I occupied, I did not attend the meetings of the Company when this Bill was preparing, nor the meetings of the City Council in connection therewith, until matters had arrived at

an advanced stage. What is the course the Directors have taken ? Is it other than you could wish them to take in fairly administering the trust in their hands I This Bill was framed for the purpose of obtaining additional capital, and certain additional clauses were inserted by the solicitor. The Government suggested that it Bhould be sent to the City Council, and it has been in the hands of the latter for a considerable time. It is only lately that the City Council sent a letter to the Company suggesting amendments in the proposed Bill, in the way of objections to some clauses. I was at the meeting of Directors when that letter was gone into, and the objections considered seriatim. Some of those objections I agreed with, and with others I did not. I agreed with the objection to the clause authorising the rates to be collected halfyearly, and I agreed to have the clause struck out. I now hold in my ha- id a draft of the Bill I had with me at the meeting, and in which the clause referred to is struck out. 1 was also averse to this clause referring to distress warrants ; and that clause was also struck out at the meeting I refer to. A Voice : Do you mean to tell mo that the Bill lias not already buen sent to Wellington with those clauses I Mr Oargill : I do not know whether the Bill was ever sent to Wellington. The VoU'E : Do you mean to say that a large number of copies have not been sent to Wellington ? Mr Carglll : Whether they have or not, that fact would not interfere with the negotiations between the City Council and the Company, which were intended to bring the Bill into such a shape as would make it acceptable. There are other objections with which 1 do not agree ; and notwithstanding what has been urged by Mr Harton, with all the skill and ability lie is able to throw into an argument of that sort, I think the meeting will agree that the objection I refer to should not bo sustained. So far as my personal interest is concerned, if ] were really the selfish, grasping individual the shareholders of the Company are represented to be, my sympathies would be entirely with Mr Barton. But, I say, to allow the present Bill to be in such a shape that all large warehouses — all large buildings containing property of a valuable description, deriving enormous benefits by protection from lire, and low insurance rates — should be practically exempted from water rates, and the whole burden made to fail upon householders — I say that is a very cruel proposal. — (Hear, hear, and applause.) I may faay that there is a discrepancy in the original Bill, from which it will be seen that this ''more or less" difficulty seems to have erupt in some what by way of mistake. — (Laughter.) In the first place, it is provided that so soon as any buildings shall be surrounded by pipes, the rate leviable before the water supply is put on shall be ;it once payable. But there is another clause providing for the "greater or less"' rate in buildings which may use less water, and it appears something like an inadvertence. At any rate, I think it is a great mistake ; for I am quite sure it is absolutely necessary, in order to support the Company — so that the rates will not be burdensome upon the people at large — that extensive property holders in the city must pay a fair share. And I say this objection has not come from large property holders — it is not the owners of large warehouses who have made this objection. It is the occupiers of little paltry offices who have sought to make a fight about it. [Mr Barton was understood to express dissent. J Mr Caruill : Gentlemen, the only objections raised to this " greater or less" assessment so far has been on tho part of Home lawyers:. — (Hear, hear.) Mr Bakton : Never. Mr Cakuill : When I hoard my friend, Mr Barton, talking about " this little Bill," [ wondered how many " little bills" will be in prospect if that " more or less" dispute is loft quite open ? There will be some nice little bills — there will be plenty of work for the lawyers — and there will be a prospect of increasing the burdens of the citizens. — (Applause.) Now, gentlemen, you may be prepared to endorse that ; but I do not think you are. I think you will agree with me upon that point. There is another little matter I wish to refer to ; and that is, with regard to messuages and tenements. Is it to be argued for a moment that the man occupying no land beyond what his house stands upon, shall pay the full rate of assessment, while his big neighbour, who lias a handsome house and large garden in the middle of the city, shall bo rated simply for his house ii — (Hoar, hear.) I say again my interest is all on thu other side. I occupy a house in the city, and have a garden attached to it. It is not by me, or anyone like me, that this qiiestion is raised. It is merely raised to fight against the Water Works Company. lam sorry to see such a course pursued — such

opposition raised against this Company, which should be supported by the citizens. This Company's Directors should receive every assistance in making the rates as little burdensome as possible. — j (Hear, hear, ) The tendency of the alterations proposed in this respect appears to me will be simply to increase the burdens of householders ; and I therefore object to it. lam a little surprised-—consider-ing the line of argument Mr Barton is generally so fond of taking— that he should figure to-night as the advocate of the big men. i think he has got out of his place, and forgotten his brief. — (Applause.) A Voice (behind Mr Cargill): "Time, Time;" and confusion.) The 1 matter stands simply in this way. We know there are many parts of the city where the inhabitants are calling out for an extension of water, and we seek the power to increase our capital to meet that want. I do call upon you to consider what you are doing, and while you stand as firm as you like against any unfair extension of the powers of the Company, do not take action which will prevent an extension of the supply of good water, the benefit of which I am j sure we must all have felt. It was my intention to have proposed another i amendment, but I think it would hardly be in order ; I will therefore support Mr Gillies's amendment, and recommend the meeting to strike out those words which will have the effect of preventing the Company extending the water supply. If it is necessary to introduce afterwards a j general resolution protesting against any undue extension of the powers of the Company, such a resolution will have my hearty support. — (Applause. ) The Chairman : I think, as the matter under discussion is one which, affects the interests of the citizens, it is my duty to tell you not only what are my views on the subject, but also to explain what aie the A'iews of the majority of the City Council. After having patiently listened to the remarks which have been made tonight, I cannot help thinking that some of the gentlemen who are Directors of the Water Works Company have been endeavouring to draw a red herring across the scent, in order to throw the meeting oil' the track. It has been asserted that if the proposals of the Corporation are agreed to, the Water Works Company will be prevented from gettingthe£l 5,000, and that it will not bo able to extend its mains. Ido not hesitate to say that that is a fallacy. The Corporation is anxious that the Company should get the money, and th.it it should extend its mains as rapidly as possible. Again Mr Gillies, flourishing a document before the meeting, said, ' ' This Company was not started as a commercial speculation.'' — (Mr Gillies : Hear, hear.) If it was not started as a commercial speculation, why did the Company insert a clause giving it power to rate the unfortunate citizens until they get twenty per cent, for their money I — (Applause.) If that is not a commercial speculation I don't know what is. — (Applause.) Mr Gillies urged as another reason why some concession should be made to the Company, that the , shareholders did not get a penny until I 1807 ; but was not that the result of the way in which their works were managed i It was also said that when the works were offered j to the Corporation the offer was refused. But why did the Corporation refuse to take the works I Because when the offer was made, the works were in such a state that it would have been madness for a private individual, much less a Corporation, to have had anything to do with them. It has also been said that the Company did not want to alter the old Act ; if not, why was the word "less," in the Amendment Act omitted ? Further, that this Bill had been in the possession of the Corporation for two months. It might have been in the Corporation offices for that length of time, but as a reason why action was not taken upon it sooner, I may state that it was sent about the time when the elections wero going on, and when everything was in a state of confusion. It has boon stated that this Bill was sent to the City Council in order that every information might be given to the citizens. I believe, however, that the Bill was never sent to the Corporation until it was asked for ; and I have no ! hesitation in saying that if that had not been done, tho Bill would have been sent to Wellington and it would not have beenheard of until wo had to pay for it. We have also been told that if we refuse to assent to 1 the passage of the Amendment Bill, the result will be the infliction of additional burdens on the citizens. I don't think so. I say that the Government did a monstrous thing in giving the Company the powers they obtained. I disagree with the contention that people should be made to pay for what they don't want. 1 say we have no right to pay two-thirds of the rate merely because a few gentlemen formed themselves into a company. We ought to endeavour by all the means in our power to protect the citizens in the future. The amendment was then put to the

meeting, and negatived almost unanimously. Mr E. B. Caroill moved a further amendment, as follows :—": — " That the Dunedin Waterworks Company has conferred a great benefit on the city in providing an abundant supply of water, and is entitled to the hearty support of the citizens. That it is desirable that the Water Works Company should obtain such an amendment of its Act as will permit of its increasing its capital and clearing up any points left doubtful in the existing Act as to the incidence of the authorised rates, so that the rates may fall equally upon all descriptions of property within the range of the ■water supply."' The meeting might negative that amendment if they ohoae, and thereby say that the burden of paying the rates should fall upon the small men and exempt the owners of large warehouses. This amendment was also lost, and the original resolution, proposed by Mr E. Paterson, was carried by a large majority. Mr Bartox moved the following resolution :—": — " That the ratepayers complain of the unjust and unfair manner in which the Company under its present oppressive powers has hitherto assessed their buildings at a value beyond the rate of Corporation assessment." Mi'D. Hutche'son seconded the motion. He said that whilst his sympathies were with the Company he considered justice should also be done to the citizens. Mr Caroill said he wished to make one or two remarks in regard to the resolution. He was then understood to say that by being asked to pass the above resolution the meeting was called upon to cast a slur , upon those gentlemen who had endeavoured to carry on the works for the benefit of all concerned. However, he had endeavoured to act fairly as a citizen, and the meeting might now do as it liked. The Chairman- explained that there was a motion to be proposed in respect to the action of the Council in the matter, ! and he suggested that the resolution last moved should be withdrawn. The resolution was accordingly withdrawn. Mr C. S. Reeves said he cordially endorsed what had been said against the new Bill which the Company proposed to lay before Parliament. He was originally a shareholder in the Company, and he ultimately sold out at a loss. — (Hear, hear, and laughter.) So thoroughly disgusted ■\\ as he with the manner in which the Company had been managed that he sold out.— (Oh !) As regarded the Bill, he might say he considered it absurd that because a man had a bath in his house he should be compelled to pay £8 a year. — (A Voice : He don't ; does he ?) It was also equally ridiculous that public baths should be compelled to pay so much for water, and the principle of collecting rates in advance was one which they should all object to. — (Hear, hear.) He moved, "That this meeting approves of the amendments and alterations proposed by the City Council in respect of the Dunedin Water Works Amendment Bill, and requests that His Worship the Mayor will take all legitimate steps to prevent the passing of the said Bill in the General Assembly xmless amended as proposed by the Corporation." Mr John Barnes seconded the resolution. He did not think it was right that a man should be called upon to pay for anything six months in advance. He was I a large property holder in the city, and he admitted that the Water Works Com- | pany had conferred a great boon upon the citizens generally by the provision which they had made to extinguish tires. But it was also necessary that the interests of the citizens should be protected. After some remarks as to the difficulty of obtaining a copy of the Water Works Bill, Mr Wilson, of the firm of Wilson and Birch, moved — "That His Worship the Mayor be requested to forward copies of the resolutions now passed to all the members of the Assembly, and to request them to \ise their ut- most influence in preventing the Bill being passed in its present form." The motion was seconded by Mr Joel. Mr Cutten, regarding the statement which had been made as to copies of the bill having been sent to Wellington, explained that every private bill that was forwarded to Wellington for the consideration of the General Assembly must be sent within a certain time after the commencement of the session. They would tlms see the necessity of the Bill being printed and ready for the members. Again, the Company could not get copies distributed at an earlier period, because the Bill was in the possession of the Corporation for nearly two months previoxisly. The Bill was sent, in the fh'3t instance, to the Provincial Government. The Government, however, referred it to the Corporation ; and the reason that copies wero not printed, was that the proof lay upon the table of the Company until they should have an opportunity of settling with the

Council what the nature of the Bill should be. Hence the reason why the Bill had not been placed in the hands of the citizens. If that opportunity had been afforded to the Company, the Bill — if the Company had agreed to the amendments of the Council — would liayo been altered in accordance with those amendments. Wtwt was looked upon as an act deserving censure was, therefore, simply the result of an accident. Mr Dick, the Secretary of the Company, explained that for twelve days in the month of May, there was an advertisement in the Daily Times and Evening Star, announcing that a copy of the Bill would be placed in the Crown Lands office for public inspection, from the 10th July. That Bill had been there from that date, and when persons asked him questions regarding it, he always referred them to that place. The Bill had been in the Crown Lands Office for more than six weeks, open to public inspection, ftiitl he had told anyone who asked about tho Bill that they could see it there. The Chairman said he had a perfect recollection of what Mr Cargill had stated, and what Mr Cargill now said, as to tlu* words he had used, was correct, Mr H. J. Walter regretted that in the resolutions which had been proposed, the Oounoil had not made it imperative that a clause should be inserted in the Bill enabling the Council to obtain possession of the Company's works. Those of the directors who had spoken had stated in effect that the establishment of the works was imdertaken in a sort of philanthropic spirit. If that were tho case, he would strongly recommend the Company to sell the works to the Council, accepting, in payment, long-dated debentures, say at from thirty to forty years, and at seven per cent, per annum. That would be a very easy way of settling tho difficulty. — (Applause. ) Mr Gillies said it had been more than once stated that the Company's works ought to be placed in the possession of the Corporation, and Mr Walter had remarked, " "Why not sell them to the Corporation ?"' He (Mr Gillies) would tell the meeting why. Some time ago, when the Company was in the last gasp of existence, and when the bailiffs were in, a gentleman came forward and advanced the money necessary to keep the Company going, and to put it upon its present established footing. But he did so on one condition. That condition was, that the then directors, so far as they were concerned, should not do anything that would result in handing over the works to tho Corporation.— (Oh, oh !) In order to save the shareholders from ruin, he (Mr Gillies) agreed to that condition, and so long as he was connected with the Company he would stick to the promise which he had made. — (Oh, oh! and applause.) If he courted public favour, or if he were enc,aged in political life, as were his codirectors — if he were in their shoes, he would give \ip the Water Company. But he had given a pledge, and he intended to remain faithful to it. — (Applause.) Mr G. Duncan asked Mr Gillies whether it was true that the gentleman who had made the arrangement mentioned by Mr Gillies with the Company, received ten per cent, from the Company for the money advanced, instead of eight per cent., and if the Government was not forced to pay the balance. Mr Gillies's reply, in consequence of some interruption, was not distinctly heard. He was understood to say that the gentleman in question did get ten per cent. Mr Duncan, however, was entirely Avrong in supposing that he (Mr Gillies) was the agent of the gentleman, or that he had anything to do with him whatever. He had merely given a pledge which ho intended to stick to, and he had nothing more to do with the matter. If the Corporation had come forward at the time and taken up the debt they would have got the whole of the works into their own hands. He, however, thought he ought to be allowed to explain another matter to the ratepayers of Dunedin, namely, why that great opposition had been got up. The motion was carried. Mr Walter proposed a resolution affirming the desirability of negotiations being entered into by the City Council with the Water Works Company for the purchase of the works. The motion was carried. A vote of thanks was accorded to tho Chairman. Somebody proposed three cheers, which were also given. The meet ing then separated.

In the House of Representatives, on the 17th inst., Mr Haughton asked the Premier whether the attention of the Government had been directed to the large immigration of Chinese to the Province of Otago, and the probable results of "such immigration upon the permanent settlement of the country? Mr Pox said he could answer by simple negative. The Government had received no official communication on the matter up to the present time. If they did receive any such communication they would take some ' action upon it,