SEPARATION MEETING AT LYTTELTON.

Otago Witness, Issue 555, 19 July 1862, Page 6

SEPARATION MEETING AT LYTTELTON.

(From the LylU-Uon Times.')

On Saturday evuninjr, June 23, a public medium of the inhabitants of Lyttelton was held in the Town Hall, to consider the important question of the separation of the Governments of tli j North and Middle Islands of Now Zealand. Tho meeting was not nearly so full as might have been anticipitod, from the iiuport.mce of tho subject to be diseißsci.

_ W. Donald, Esq., as Chairman of the Town Council, presided, and opened tho business by reading the requisition which had been addressed to' aim to call a public meeting. He hoped they would give each speaker a f.iiv heaving, as ho had no doubt there would be advoc-ites of both sides of the question. _ Mr. Gco. Buckley, M.P.C., requested the attention of the meeting to a gentleman who was on his way from Otaso to attend the General Assembly at Wellington, whose views it would be very desirable to have. He would introduce to them Mr. Gillies, M.H.R. for Otago, who said he hoped to be able to allay some of the misconceptions which had i"'ot abroad, respecting tlie {Separation Movement in Otago. He objected to tbe tuna Separation ; it was a pity they had not been able to find a better name for this agitation, for by looked upon Separation as a necessary evil. He would first call their attention to the evils which had brought about this demand for Separation. The first reason for urging the separation of the Government of New Zealand waa the distance of the seat of Government. Perhaps Canterbury had not felt the inconvenience of distance so much as Otago. The people of Otago had felt the shoe pinch a great deal more than Canterbury or any other province of New Zealand. A proper administration of the government of New Zealand, he maintained, could not be effected from Auckland. They found difficulties meeting them at every turn. At one time, when they had a population of a thousand a day pouring in, they were entirely at the mercy of the mob ; they could not even get a magistrate appointed without sending to Auckland. It was quite true that the hew corners happened to be ordmly, but they might have been otherwibe. A remedy had been suggested for tlm evil by removing the seat of government to Welliugtou, which was, in his opinion, no remedy at all. The jtelegr.tph would, iv a short time bring the province^ of Auckland and Otago closer together ; but-Jdiskinco was. not the chief -of their grievances. The colonists of the Middle Island had no sympathy with the colonists of the North Island iv the government of the natives. The interests of the Middle Island had to give way to the interests of tho North. The General Assembly wasted more than two-thirds of their time in a fruitless discussion of native affairs, in the endeavour to solve the problem of governing the natives; but this state of matters could not continue much longer ; the tables were now turned ; the colonies of the Middle LUnd nuw numbered about 70,000, whikt the native population of the North Island was only about 50,000; the revenue of tliis island also was far greater. He did not count lightly tli« unity of the colony, but there was such a thing as paying too dearly for governing a handful of natives — there waa such a tiling as paying too dearly for peace. It was a question whether we should not have to pay tho coot of tho Imperial policy as represented by Sir George Wrey. It was due to the North Island that we should see them fairly through the native difficulty ; but it was not fair to charge the colonists of the Middle Island with the cost of the Imperial policy towards the natives in the North Island. The tariff, also, which was the wonder of all mercantile men, must not be altered, they were told, because under it the Maories contributed to the revenue by purchasing blankets and tobacco, which w;is the only way in which they could be taxed. He thought it would be unreasonable to expect that the Europeans of the North Island could be called upon to consider the interests of the numerical majority of the South Island as of primary importance j but let thorn have a separate government, and let them be freed from tho trammels of the British policy. (Cheers.^ He was glad to see that there was some opposition, for without opposition the truth or f.illacy of a question could not properly be tested. He wished to remove an impiession which had got abroad respecting the movement in Ota«o, viz., that it was simply the agitation of the Victorians there : it was- no such thing ; it was the general desire of the oldest colonists of Otago, an I there was little or no opposition there. It was not a question of yesterday or to-day. They wished it to be a general movement, embracing the whole of the Middle Island ; and all that the Otago people asked of Canterbury was that they should work together for one common good with the whole of New Zealand. Otago was democratic iv its view s, and he looked to Canterbury to supply the consu-vative element. (Cheers.) It had been said that they wanted tlie seat of government at Otago. This, for his own part, he distinctly denied : for he did not think that it would be worth having in any province. lie should certainly oppose it being in Otago ; but if Canterbury wanted it, let her have it, by all means. (Ironical cheering.) As to the_ necessrty for a seperato government, Otai^o desired to have the opinions of all New Zcalaml. He did not wish to pledge the meeting to any particular policy : ho only asked their co-operation. We liad been, and were still, preuarrd to pay our share towards making the natives understand and feel the force of British authority— (Cheers.)— but he for one would never consent to pay a single farthing towards the present policy of the Imperial Government. Even if Wellington was made the seat of Government it would not do away with the Native difficulty. If it was decided to have a Governor and a Licu-t.-Govcr-nor, let the North Island have the Lieut. -Governor, and let the Governor and general Executive be stationed in the Middle 1-,' a id. (Cheers.) There was also the proposition of making Supei intendents Lieut. - Governors, which partly coincided with his views. Then there was a dark scheme, which had not yet been laid before the public, but the substance of which appeared to be summed up in tho following sentence in the Lyttelton Times : "It appears that the Government wish to effect an administrative Separation, without creating a second Legislature; they propose to locate a strong detachment of the General Executive in this island— ministers, permanent official heads, clerks, and all." He must confess lie had no confidence jn such a scheme. Every one knew how difficult it was to get men to work harmoniously when they were together, and how much more difficult would it be if they were separated from each other. If he could believe that the Native question would be settled within five years, he would oppose Separation ; but he felt satisfied that that would not be the case. So far he believed separation to be a necessity. He had endeavoured to explain the views of the Otago Separation League, and lio thanked the meeting for the patient heating they had given him ; at the same time he had his own peculiar views on the details of the scheme, with which he would not now trouble the meeting. He would be happy to give any explanations which might be asked for by the meeting. (Applause.) Mr. Wm. Bowler, Jun., M.P.C., said ho h.id listened with attention to the eloquent speech of Mr. ■ Gillies, and he rose to explain why he had signed the requisition for calling the meeting. It had been currently reported that those who had signed the requisi- | tion were pledged to Separation. He had no such idea when he signed it ; his object was to promote discussion. He hardly knew what Separation meant. If we were to be without a government he should op. pose Separation. He was not prepared to deny that the South Island had'arrived at such a pitch as "to require a separate government ; but if the native difficulty were the only question, Canterbury could not join with Otago iv the movement. Before pledging himself to Separation, ho must see some more feasible and proper plan than the indefinite one proposed by Mr. Gillies, (Cheers.) Mr. Buckley said, in order to test the feeling of this part of the Province, he would propose, " That in the opinion of this meeting, the Province of Canterbury, in common with the adjoining Provinces of tho Middle Island of Neve Zealand, is subject to great inconvenience and injustice, in consequence of the seat of Government being in the North Island : and the different interests of the two islands." Some three years ago, when he came down to Canterbury, he had heard some talk of separation ; since then, the subject had been discussed both here and at Otago, In his opinion, the best argument for Separation lay in the fact that we contribute about £50,000 annually w the revenue ; and what do we get in return 1 Our liability to the General Government amounted to about which appeared to be lost sight of. Without the Provincial Council, the Government could not be carried on. To use Sir George Grey's own words, gpokcu some time ago, Separation was the only solution of the difficulty, and he wa.s .satisfied tiiat must be the end of it. Of the amount which we contribute annually to the revenue very little came back. The native question looked worse than it had done for the past throe years. After waiting some time for a seconder, Mr. J. T. Peacock, M.P.C., rose to second tho resolution, 2» - o foriiid, without pledging himself to any particular policy. _ Mr. A. Davidson (in a speech which provoked considerable mirth) gave his ppiuions on this question, which he considered of vital importance. He eaid the beparatiou movement, if properly carried oh, would lead to practical results. Wo w ere trying to take up the key-note which had been sounded in Otago. The Lyltdton Times had bcea casting dirty water on tho movement. With regard to the £50,000 a-year sent to Auckland, what wqb it for 1 To support something at Auckland. We should ask for our own revenue; and then if wo waited a few rifles, as we did a short time back, we should be able to get them. We should also be able to build an iron-clad steamer to protect our harbors. (Laughter,) We had been told of Lieut.Governors being- apppoiuted, but who was to pay them. (Much laughter} This tiling they ha-1 been looking for as looming in the distance, and now it had come ho was willing to sign the "resolution. (Renewed laughter.} - '* ■ Mr. Buckley again rose to press 1 hts 'resolution. He said he was sorry to see so much' apathy shown on such a subject. ■ Mr. Pyfe, M.P.C., said this was one'of^the "most fimportant questions that could be brought before a public meeting, uad considering the. short time

) which had been allowed them for considering the matter, he thought it would be premature to come jto any resolution on tho question. He thought the evil did not lie in the <Htl since of the seat of Government. It appeared to him that the local Government, Municipal Councils included, were in a mess; they nono of them knew tin. extent of their power*. He was hardly prepared to give a decided opinion, or vole one way or the other. Mr. H. P. Murray Aynsley wished to explain the reason ot the shortness of the notice in calling the meeting which Mr. Fyfe referred to. Mr. Gillies w;is on his way to Wellington by the Lord Worsley, and it was highly important to have his opinions on the question of Sepiiution, and this was the only ehanoj we should have for some time. Tho objection which had lieen raUod a-j to the distance of the seat of Government could be got rid of by moving it to Wellington but that did riot do away with the Native difficulty. As it was, everything had to give way to Northern interests. He thought the idea of a Governor and Lieu teuant-Govornor was a ffood one ; but as to which Island should have the Governor, that should ba decided by the amount of revenue or l>y population, or by both. With respect to the da"k scheme which had been spoken of, ho supposed that the General Government meant to have a Treasurer in Otago, an Attorney-General in Canterbury, and a Native Minister in the North Island ; as least so he gathered iroin the LytteUon Times, which was their Government organ. He was satisfied that scheme would not work. He also objected to the present tariff, which operated very unfairly in heavily taxing articles of use and leaving comparatively untaxed articles of luxury. We wanted a lighthouse at the Head?, which had been asked fin-, but they were not likely to get it. If there had been a lighthouse there, we should have had the English mail some three or four hours earlier on the last occasion, when the captain of the steamer Queen, not knowing the harbor, was obliged to remain outside to wait for dayliglifc. He would like to sec the powers of the Provincial Councils reduced. With a large Customs revenue of £10,000 a year going to Auckland, while the Government were paying £50,000 a year to keep the natives quiet, he thought we could well afford to support another government, and he was inclined to have a separate one for each I&land. Mr. Rhodes would ask the mover of the resolution what was likely to be the financial policy of the Separation league j Without pledging himself to either side, ha thought we might have a more central Governineut without iucurring further expenses for governing purposes. lie was opposed to separation at present. Mr. Fyfe asked Mr. Gillies what form of government was recommended by the Separation League 1 Mr. Gillies replied those details would be left for Canterbury and Nelson to arrange, in conjunction with Otago. He would surest tlie appointment of a committee, to consult with thobe Provinces as to the best form of Government to recommend. Miv Peacock had been about to propose an amend.- . ment, which he read, but afterwards withdrew on the lecommendation of the chairman, and introduced it as a second resolution. Mr. Buckley rose to reply to Mr. Rhodes' question, with respect to the financial part of the scheme. He did not see the practicability of separating the revenues of the two islands, unless the Excsutive and Legislative poweis were also divided. Besides, the distance made Government J .impracticable; for members could not now be fouud to aitend the Assembly who were worth sending. Perhaps they would be able to get men to go up, as some did now, for their own pleasure, hut those were not the men to represent their interests in a Government. There were a few, certainly, who went for the benefit of the Province, but the majority went, for their own pleasure. Mr. Hargrcaves desired to say a few words before the resolution was put. He thought they were not prepared for Separation. No doubt there were many inconveniences arising from tho present position of the seat of Government, which might be modified by removal from Auckland ; but we ought not to pledge Canterbury to Separation; for he thought the Government would accede to a fair financial adjustment. The resolution pledged the meeting to oppose the seat of Government being in the North Island. He would propose as an amendment that the word " Auckland" be substituted for the " North Island." Mr. Bowler had much pleasure in seconding the amendment, but in doing so he did not pledge himself to oppose the separation movement. He agreed with Mr. Gillies that separation was a bad term. He considered it incumbent on Canterbury to assist their southern brethren in obtaining n better system of government ; but he was not disposed to endorse the opinions expressed by Mr. Uucldey, that the members went to the General Assembly for their pleasure. (A voice : For Urn benefit of their health.) If such men were elected, it was tlie fault of the electors, not the representatives. He felt no little pride in represent ing Lyttelton in the Provincial Council, but he thought it was anything but a pleasurable affair to attend to his ) duties as representative. He thought Mr. Buckley's observations applied as much to himself (Mr. Buckley) as to anybody else, for he also represented L\ttelton in the Provincial Council. (Laughter.) Mr. Buekley said he would willingly adopt the suggestion of Mr. Hargreaves, but, ho would ask, why should the seat of Government be iv the North island when the population of the Middle Island was so much greater '! The amendment was then put to the meeting and lost by a large majority, and the original resolution was put and carried. Mr. Peacock then rose to propose the following resolution:—" That this meeting considers that some change in the Government and Legislature is necessary, but before committing itself to the separation movement, thinks it desirable that our members of the General Assembly bo requested to bring the matter before the House of Representatives, in order tint the question may be discussed and the views of all parts of the Middle Island ascertained upon it." Mr. Buckley said he had much pleasure in seconding this resolution, and he hoped the apathy which had hitherto been displayed by the electors as well as by the representatives would cease. Mr. Grubb thought this was a parallel case to Scotland when ifc was subdued by England. The Scotch did not wait to see the seat of Government brought to them : they had to submit to the government established in England. He said that Auckland was the first settlement founded in New Zealand — (No, no)— ami that, he supposed, was the reason why the seat of Government was put there ; but that was no reason why it should remain. He should hold up both hands for Separation. Mr. Murray Aynsley hoped that this resolution would also be carried. The General Govrnment were now spending a great deal of money iv subsidizing steamers to compete with each other in a race for time, of which Otago and Auckland appeared to get the lion's share. Tlie present arrangement brought down two steamers within two days of each other, and left us for twelve or fourteen days without steam communication whatever. He had been led to understand that Mr. Ward was about to proceed to England in a matter connected with the Panama route, and had entirely forgotten that he waa a member for Lyttelton. The resolution was then put from the chair and carried unanimously. Mr. Buckley moved " That a Committee be appointed to carry out the foregoing resolutions.'' Mr. Peacock seconded the resolution. The following gentleman were then chosen to acton the committee: — Messrs. Hargreaves, Bowler, Peacock, Aynsley, Grubb, Willcox, Kayner, Fyfe, Day, Rhodes, Trew, and Buckley. Seven al other gentlemen were also nominated on the committee, but they declined to act. After a vote of thauks to the Chairman the meeting separated, ______