INTERUNIVERSITY DEBATE

Otago Daily Times, Issue 21997, 5 July 1933, Page 8

INTERUNIVERSITY DEBATE

JOYNT SCROLL CONTEST

WON BY OTAGO " That the British Empire is now in a State of Decline" was the subject chosen for the animal interuniversity debating contest, which was held in the Concert Chamber, Town Hall, last night. All of the universities were represented. The Mayor (the Rev. E. T. Cox), who presi'ded. said thai the donor of the Joynt Scroll, for which the teams were competing, had been registrar of the New Zealand University, and had later gone to London as _ its representative, an important position since all of the degree examiners had at the time been selected from the British universities. The debate was divided into two sections—Victoria College, Wellington (affirmative) v. Canterbury (negative), and Otago (affirmative) v. Auckland (negative). The judges were Pastor W. D. More, Mr A. C. Hanlon. K.C.. and Mr J. L. M'lndoc. VICTORIA v. CANTERBURY. Mr A. F. T. Chorlton (Victoria) said that in supporting a motion of this kind the affirmative was laying itself open to a charge of disloyalty, but full publicity should be given to the flaws in Empire policy so that they could be rectified. The British Empire at one i.me.had had the navel, military, and commercial supremacy of the world. It no longer possessed that leadership, and, indeed. was in grave danger of disintegration. He referred to the growth of industrialism in America and the Great War as factors which had contributed to the Empire's decline. I n 1915 the personnel of the British Navy had been nearly twice that of its two greatest competitors. Now the personnel of the United States Navy was greater than that of Britain, and that of Japan was almost as great. Britain's military forces were equal to only half of those which she possessed in. 1913. As an air Power she was only fifth rate. In the last two decades there had been a great weakening of the bonds binding together the various nations which composed the Empire. Mr T. F. G. Milner (Canterbury College) said that he was not going to speak of the Empire's power in terms of warships. If the Empire had declined it must have reached a period when it was at the zenith of its power. It was for his opponents to say when that peak had been reached. They had overlooked the principle of liberty. In the post-war world naval and military supremacy were over and done with. The Empire had then become the pattern of the League oi Nations. Mr Chorlton had not distinguished between change and decline. That there was unity in the Empire had been proved by the Ottawa Conference, Miss Z Henderson (Victoria) said that Mr Milner had avoided the questions of naval and military power because he had recognised that he was on dangerous ground. He had obtained his information with respect to the Ottawa Conference from returning statesmen, whose duty it was to endeavour to show that the conference had been a success. — (Laughter.) She referred to Britain's trade arrangements with other nations and to New Zealand's trade position with Australia, and claimed that they were evidence of disunity. She dealt with thei desire of the Irish for a republic and of the Indians for independence. Now only 44 per cent, of the people of Canada were of British stock, she added, and the interests of that dominion were strongly bound up with those of the United States. South Africa, she claimed, had no desire to remain within the Empire. Mr C. F. Hart (Canterbury College) said that this Empire had in pre-war daye been an ideal. Now that ideal had been attained. Referring to South Africa, ho stated that General Hertzog, the greatest of the secessionists, returning from the Imperial Conference, had said: "There is no need for secession. Britain has found freedom within the Empire." The Ottawa Conference had proved that there was economic unity within the Empire. Britain had reconquered her colonies' by freeing them. OTAGO v. AUCKLAND.

Mr J. C. Mowat (Otago) said that 20 years ago the subject of this debate would not have been arguable. He proposed to show how the international importance of the Empire had fallen. A few years ago Britain had been mistress of tlie financial fabric. Now she could no longer support her internal millions by foreign trade. The United States and Japan had robbed her of her trade, and the United States and not Britain was now supreme in commerce. He also referred to the decline in .Britain's naval and military power. The United States and Japan had embarked on a race in naval building. Britain could not compete in that race if she wished. Was that not a sign of decline? Miss E. Johnston (Auckland) referring to trade, said that while Britain's unemployed were decreasing there was an increase in the number of unemployed in other countries. In finance the United States had held the leadership by virtue of reparations and war debts. Now the nations were looking to Britain and away from last year's favourite. The 3'oung men of Oxford had said that they would not fight for their country, but they would serve on the frontiers of Empire. There were more ways of serving a nation than by dying for it. The Empire had given the dominions greater freedom as they had become more worthy of it. That willingness to change would be the foundation of an even greater Empire. Economically, it was not in the interests of the nations to break away from the Empire. It would uot pay. Politically it would not be safe, because Japan might grab Australia. But surely the bond was greater than that. A common heritage linked' the Motherland with the dominions, whose people had helped to build the Empire. That the Empire in the present state of the world could still say that it was right to disarm and could realise that there were greater things than material welfare showed that it was not in a state of decline.

Mr L. F. Moller (Otago) said that there was only one white' to every 30 coloured people in the Empire. VVhile the whites were continually on the decrease the coloured races were increasing, and in some cases becoming increasingly hostile. Imperial conferences had been merely opportunities for the dominions to make assertions of their independence. Australia had demanded a' GovernorGeneral of her own choice, and New Zealand had flouted the Ottawa agreements. Mr G. 0. Adams (Auckland) stated that the exports of Great Britain had declined less proportionately than those of other countries. He referred to the much improved treatment of the natives in Africa, and added that so great was Britain's security becoming in India that garrisons were being reduced. Strength -was still latent in the British Empire. This was proved by the calmness of its people in this time of depression, when hysterical mass movements were taking place in other countries. JUDGES' AWARDS. Pastor More, in announcing the decision of the judges, said that they were unanimously of opinion that the only thing lacking in the otherwise almost perfect "deliverance of Mr Mowat was gesture. They placed the speakers in the following "order: —Mr Mowat (Otago), 118 marks, Mr Moller (Otago) 113, Mr Milner (Canterbury) 105, Miss Johnstou (Auckland) 05, Mr Hart (Canterbury) 05, Miss Henderson (Victoria) 03, Mr Adams (Auckland) 80. and Mr Chorlton (Victoria) 70. . Otago was declared the winner ol the scroll, tin- team marks being as follows: — Otago 232, Canterbury 201, Auckland 176, n and Victoria 164. During the evening items were contributed by Miss Muriel Ironside, Mr W H. North, and a trio, consisting of Messrs T. A. M. Mauusell, J. W. Bartram, and J. M'Donnld.