TRAINING OF APPRENTICES.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 18894, 21 June 1923, Page 2

TRAINING OF APPRENTICES.

SOME IMPORTANT PROBLEMS. DISCUSSION BY TECHNICAL COLLEGE MANAGER*. Some important problems relating to the training and education of apprentices and toe relation ot technical colleges thereto were discussed at the meeting 01 the King Edward technical College 'Managers yesterday. In the course ot discussion a wide divergence ot opinion became evident. The matter was raised by the-following letter received from the Otago Employers Association. • “1 have been asked to draw your attention to the Opinion reported to have been expressed by Mr Marshall at the recent Technical College Conference regarding the question o£ the technical training of apprentices. In the course of a discussion upon a motion to the - effect that the technical training ot apprentices should be taken outside working hours, Mr Marshall is reported to have moved an amendment as follows: —‘That the technical school authorities do not pretend to teach a trade, in fact .they assert it is impossible to do so under the present conditions, but are strongly of opinion that provision should be made for day continuation of education in the early years of apprenticeship.’ I am desired to point out that any suggestion that apprentices should be required to attend technical classes during working hours has always been strenuously opposed by my association. At a very representative meeting of employers, which was held recently to discuss with the Hon. G. J. Anderson. Minister of Labour, the proposed legislation relating to the training of apprentices, the objections to day-time classes were very forcibly expressed, and the Minister recognised and admitted the impracticability of making atly such provision. As the opinion expressed by Mr Marshall is entirely opposed to the wishes of the employers of apprentices here piy executive would be glad to know if the amendment as proposed by him has the sanction and approved of your board, or whether it was merely an expression of his own personal view of the matter. If the latter is the case my executive is of opinion that the board should publicly disclaim responsibility for Mr Marshall’s statement. The report to which I have referred appeared in the Otago Daily Times of 19th "inst. Yours faithfully, A. S. Cookson, Secretary,” Mr G. Clark said that personally he was not at all in favour of the motion proposed by Mr Marshall. He knew the teachers always favoured 1 the day-time instruction, hut the employers did not. The Minister was not at all in favour of day-time instruction, and the speaker’s own idea was that it. -was quite impracticable, particularly in the building trades. It was not that the employers grudged the time off. The custom was for the apprentices to be put with competent journeymen whom they could assist, ’and the apprentice’s absence would mean someone else brought on in his place and would entail disorganisation .of the whole workshop. In the building trade where men were on jobs in outlying suburbs there would be many difficulties in the way of apprentices attending day-time classes. Personally he thought it would be bad for the boy, and that it would to a good thing to get back a little more to the Spartan ideas of our fathers. He was a strong believer in the Technical School, but he hoped this idea would be killed. He found that one could do too much for boys. Ho moved that the meeting disapprove of the motion moved by Mr Marshall at the Technical Schools Association Conference in Wellington. Mr W. .H. Steele pointed out that there were three conferences in Wellington at that time and asked which was referred to. Mr Marshall declined the invitation to throw any light On the point.

Mr E. F. Duthie seconded the motion. The Chairman, Mr T. Scott, said that their delegates went to these conferences without any instructions and were quite free to express their own opinions. It was absolutely necessary to have apprentices at the present time, but if they put in too many restrictions they would block employers from taking on any apprentices ■at all. He pointed out that there was a union demand before the Arbitration Court asking that apprentices in their fifth year should get 9U per cent, of a journeyman’s wage. That would mean that employers would not take them on at all. There were not sufficient either of bricklayers or plasterers in the dominion to meet the demand. Yet we were talking about going on with an Exhibition. Whore they were going to get the men for the building work beat him. It would be sufficient if they dissociated themselves from Mr Marshall’s views.

Mr W. H. Steele said he could follow the argument of the chairman. The only way to get more apprentices was to make the conditions more attractive to them. He read from a Wellington press report of Mr Marshall’s speech. He Believed the time would come when apprentices would be given day-time training. He was rignt against the Employers’ Association letter. They should approach the matter with an open mind. Mr J. T. Paul said the. question was not nearly so easy as some people believed it to be. If they affirmed the desirability _of day-time training, did they suggest that the State should provide the facilities for training in every possible trade? It was a waste of lime to affirm the general principle of day-time (raining for every conceivable trade. The circumstances of each particular trade had to be considered separately. The matter must be looked at not from "the employers* or from the workers’ point of view but from the point of view of the community which paid. They were largely discussing the matter in the dark, as they did not know what Mr Marshall had moved or the circumstances in which he had moved it. He moved--“ That the matter bp referred to a. committee for inquiry and report to a future meeting of the board.” Mr H. H. S. White seconded the amendment. Considerable discussion ensued at this point as to the correct procedure. Mr Marshall said that seeing they were discussing his opinion it might be as well if they heard what his opinions were. He proposed that assistance bo given to parents, so that the children might be encouraged to go to apprenticeship at an early age. Children were often kept at school without any particular object until they became too old to go to an apprenticeship. His proposal was that two lads' be regarded as one apprentice, and thus there would be no broken time in the workshop. They would continue their general education on alternate days, or half-days, for four years; and at 21 they would have finished their apprenticeship. For the last three years of that they would have one evening a week for their trade and one for citizenship. Thus the boys woidd be learning their trade and earning something and continuing their general education at the same time. He pointed out that it. was sometimes very hard on boys to com© to night classes after their day’s work, and then the only night they got off they had to go to drill. This plan was already being carried out at the Technical College-boys getting education half their time and working half their time. In Auckland the plumbers had actually come to the Technical College and asked them to provide day classes, undertaking to set the hoys free on Saturday, but the other employers strongly objected to this. Mr Clark said lie knew the whole of the Builders’ Federation and also of the Employers’ Association was dead against any clause nroviding for day-time instruction. He did'not build much on the practical instruction given at the Technical School, but ho did build on the technical instruction given there. Many of (hd methods learned at the Technical School had to be unlearned afterwards. . Mr Marshall said his view was just the same as Mr Clark’s, that the boy should learn his trade in the workshop but, should get his education at ihe Technical College. Mr Paul’s amendpient was carried. Mr Steele move as a further amendment—- “ That the Employers’ Association he informed that the. delegates at the conference were speaking as free agents.” This amendment was lost, and .Mr Paul’s became the motion and was carried. The committee was made to consist, of the chairman, Messrs Clark. White, Steele, and Paul.