OTAGO PATRIOTIC ASSOCIATION.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 16293, 28 January 1915, Page 2

OTAGO PATRIOTIC ASSOCIATION.

CONFERENCE WITH THH HON. JAMES ALLEN. QUESTIONS OF PENSIONS AND RECRriTINt:. DUPLICATION OF EFFORT. A meeting of the Otago Patriotic and Welfare Association wa.s held ill the Town llall yesterday morning for the purpose of conferring with the lion. J. Allen and discussing certain aspects of the Patriotic Association's operations throughout I-he dominion. The Mayor stated that the conference had been called for the purpose of discussing certain matters which had cropped up iu connection with their work, and on which the committee considered that they should have a clearer understanding with the Minister of Defence. For instance, the committee would like to know the exact intentions of the Government in the granting of pensions. Another point on which they would like some more information was in connection with recruiting. The Recruiting Committee had gone to some little expense and trouble, and it considered that the Government should fcear some, or the whole, expense of, say, the advertising. SOLDIERS' PENSIONS. Mr Allen said ho must thank them for giving him the opportunity to meet them in conference. The Government could not be expectcd to know everything about the proper way to carry on the difficult work they wero now faced with, and, speaking as the Minister of Defence, he was very anxious to know- the opinions of those who were giving their time to help the Government in this time of trial. He knew that various patriotic societies throughout the dominion had rendered the Government, valuable assistance, but unless they came to some understanding there would be duplication, waste of effort, and waste of expenditure. He therefore thought it would be wise to meet their association and tell them some of the phases of the position as they appealed to him. Tho speaker then touched on the question of pensions f<rf the wives and children of the soldiers krled at the front, or dying from disease, and alsn for those soldiers who might be wounded. It was due to his predecessors in office to say that, the.v had placed on the Statute Book legislation that was intended exactly for a crisis like the present. Ho did not suggest that the legislation was perfect, and there had , been suggestions that it was not liberal enough. He (the speaker) was now giving the matter consideration, and was also looking into the provisions being made in the Mother Country and in the commonwealth, and he would, possibly ascertain what was being done in Canada. He would be very pleased if they would read through their own legislation, because its purport could not be gathered from tho schedule alone. He admitted that the pension granted to the dependents of a soldier killed at the front was higher than that allowed for the dependents of a soldier who died from disease contracted at tho front, Why this distinction was made he could not say, but lie would say that it was the duty of the Government to make provision, and proper provision, for the widows and children of men, whether they were killed at the front, died of their wounds, or of disease which unquestionably was contracted at the front He himself could not sea why the difference had been made in the two schedules. Mr Allen then pointed out that tho pension provision in New Zealand was not the sole provision, as the Minister of Defence had the power to pay to tho widow of an officer or private a lump sum, in addition, equal to a Full year's pay, and a further sum to every child equal to a third of the full year's pay granted to the widow. He did not know how much this extra amount would mean to the pension of £36 granted to the widow of a private, but quite possibly it would put- the total amount above the sum granted in Australia—namely, £52. Tho Australian pension, they should remember, was the maximum. ' Tho speaker also referred on lines already published te the better ago clause for children in the New Zealand Act, as compared with that ir Australia. He said he considered that th< New Zealand Act was a more liberal one than the Australian if the sum were less. He would not, however, say that the amount of the pensions was sufficient, but he could not promise anything until he had consulted his colleagues. He did not want to in - fiucnce the Dunedin or any patriotic committee as_ to the disposition of its funds. The patriotic committees must determine themselves what action they would take. WASTAGE OF EFFORT.

With regard to the duplication of expend''i lire and the effort that was going on, on' -ould not help admiring- the patriotism displayed, but at the same time he believed it to be his duty to try to cheek it in order to conserve the efforts for other things that* might be of great service. He would g'v? one or two instances of what had gone "on. The Government conceived it to be its dutv to equip the men fully itself. A ni'in ■night enter camp witK nothing but the •lothes ho was dressed in. He was taken nto the mobilisation store, and, even though he might not have a single thing ■yerytl.ing he required was placed at hie disposal before he left the store, cxecpt perhaps the extra uniform and boots, which were supplied Inter. Everything was supplied by the Government. If a man brought with him certain necessary goods, supplied by himself or by a m.ttee, then he was required to lay them before the officer at the store, and he wa--supplied with whatever goods he was deficient in. The department made up exactly what goods he lacked to bring him up ic what, was considered necessary. Where v Patriotic Committee liked to eouin men hr was grateful to it. It saved h'rri the troublr of equipping them when they got into camp, and hv did not want the committees to relax their efforts if they wished to do tlifework. If they did not wish to do it he would do it himself. In the early stages the 1 fforts of the people had been such that from two or three different sources men were supplied with' what were thought to be the needs of a soldier. When the second reinforcements left some of the surplus gifts were left in ca.mp. The Government had taken possession of them, and had returned I he mufti to friends, and where they could not (indfrienda they had given the stuff to someone else. The men were supplied with more than th'cv required, and there was a certain amount of duplication, but he believed that that was stopped now. He would refer to other efforts which had been made, some of which were wasteful. The Government considered it to be its duty months ago to provide motor ambulances for the troops He had ordered in England 14 motor ambulances at a cost of £7000. He was advised that that was all that was necessary. The patriotic people in one part of NewZealand, without referring to him at all, set to work to raise money for motor ambulances, and raised £3800 in one district alone. When the money was ra : eed, and after two of the ambulances had been ordered in England, they communicated with the Minister of Defence, and told him that the monev had been subscribed for ambulances. Ho .wrote back to sav that the Government had ordered 14 ambulances, that ho would be grateful if they would allow him to use the money subscribed for the ambulances ordered, and that, in the event of their doing so, ho would be willing to havo any plate or inscription they desired placed on the ambulances bought "with the money. Ho was told that this was not their desire, and that the monev was for extra motor ambulances. The position was. that they had placed the money at his disposal on condition that he bought six more motor ambulances than he needed, and the rest of the money would be for running expenses. He admired the effort, but he would have liked to have had the £3800 to ray f° r the ambulances ordered, or for something else that m'glvt not otherwise havo been provided for the troops. But the subscribers had raised the money for a specific purpose, and it was to be devoted to that purpose. He would buy the six extra ambulances, and he hoped' that the information that 14 were required might be wroncr. and that they would require the 20. That was one instance of was. in a sense, waste of effort, and it was not a solitary instance. There were other peop'e who had done the right thing. If people had anything like this in their minds—the getting of anything that they thought the troops ought to have —thev should communicate with the Defence Department before they commenced their effort, and the department would let them know if what they proposed doing had been done already, or if it was considered desirable to spend money in do'ng it. A waste of effort would thus be avoided. ■RECRUITING. As for recruiting, so far as the Defence Denartment was concerned, the recruiting hnd been highlv satisfactory throughout New Zealand. There had been no difficulty in eetting tin- main bodv in New Zealand, or the 10 per cent, reinforcements with the main body, or the 25 per cent, later, and at present at Trentham there was the full number of officers, non-commissioned officers, and men required for the Third and Fourth r" : nforeements —over 4000 men—in camp. Whan ho last heard, practically all

Uio oll'ieers and lion <'<utnnim.ioiuvl <>fFi< <>fs !<>r (lie Fifth reinforcements were in camp, und lie believed that, by now all of them

would L»' in camp. Si i i i.ll at, pi es>-nt, I In* "Ulcers lor lliree sets and the ineii for two

i-ets of reinforcements were in camp. It spoke volnnie.s for the p-nple of New /calami that, this hail la eii done without special ell'ort in the way of recruiting meetings, except during t,lie Inst feu weeks, or file last month or so. lie had tnken no active steps to encourage the people to Htart. these meeting;:, liccau.se, Ironi his point of view, it. u'ais not ali.siiluli'ly neces.-aiy. At, the same time, he realised the viiluc of the meetings, if the people understood the .situation as it was. The position was that the department had all it wanted for the time being. If other men were prepared to enrol the department wa.s grateful to have their names; but they must understand that, it was not, possible for t.he department with any hope of success to take them into camp and begin to train t.heni now. The whole scheme had been reorganised, and in a day or two registration cards would be issued, and those men who were prepared to go to the front would- be notified in due course. They, however, wanted the men to stay at their work till called on. They muist endeavour to keep their industries going, and men should not be taken away until it was necessary to call on them. lie wanted their help to keep these men in training until they were called fin; to let the men know that the first step now was registration, and nothing else. The men would receive full notice, find he hoped that the matter of recruiting would thus be put on a very much better basis than it had been. - (Applause.) Ho did not want to interfere with them in any way whatever in the matter of recruiting, but a request had boon made to him that the Government should pay for advertising, posters, and the travelling expenses of those who gave their assistance to the recruiting meetings. He had not the slightest objection to pay for these things, on the condition that he had some control over them.--("Hear, hear.") lie, however, could not allow indiscriminate expenditure to take place all over New Zealand for posters and advertising—they must have some check on it, in the interests of the general public.—("Hear, hear.") The speaker then stated that he had noticed a recruiting poster in the North Island in which the information given as regards the pay was wrong, and he had at onco given instructions that the poster be removed. These posters must be approved by the department before it could be cull-ed upon to pay for them. The Government had now brought out a poster, and could supply them with any number they desired.—("Hear, hear.") The Government, furthermore, was perfectly willing to pay for recruiting advertisements if they could suggest to him some method by which the Government could control the work. He, however, was not prepared to give a blank order to everybody throughout the dominion. What he did for one place he must do for the whole of the community. Ho would like them to take out of his hands altogether the question of advertising. Let it be a patriotic movement in each district. He would say exactly the same thing as regards travelling expenses He could not commit the Government to expenditure over which it had no control.—("Hear, hear,") OFFICERS' EQUIPMENT.

So far as the equipment was concerned he did not believe that the Government had been quite as generous with its officers as it should have been. They had provided for tho whole of their uniforms and their general equipment, but, for instance, had not provided them with field glasses. H< did not know, however, whether it would be wise to make any alteration. The committee could help these officers by providing them with field glasses. A Voice: We are doing it. Mr Allen: Well, you are doing splendid work.

Mr Mitchell: What about the spurs for the mounted men? Mr Hazlett said he thought that Mr Allen was under a misapprehension. The committee provided spurs for the mounted men of the first Otago force. They were tokl that if they did not provide them tho Otago men would go away without them. Mr Allen:- Well, all I can say is that no men will go away in future without spurs. If the Patriotic Committee does not supply them the Government will; that is if we can get them. Continuing, he said he did think they had not been quite sufficiently generous to the officers and, perhaps, the Patriotic Committee could assist them. COMFORTS FOR THE MEN.

Such things as warm comforters and caps, etc., were not supplied by the department, which left that sort of thing to the Lady Liverpool Fund. He hoped that patriotic committees would consecrate their efforts to the Lady Liverpool Fund for anything extra for the men beyond what the department was supplying. The people of Canterbury had approached the department and intimated their desire to make a New Year gift of field cookers to the troops. The Minister inquired and found that the department Lad ordered a certain number of field cookers, but not sufficient, for the troops. He, therefore, asked the Canterbury people to supply six more field cookers, and promised to have plates placed on them stating whose gift they were. In this instance the people had acted in conjunction with the department They had more money than they required, and ho had asked them t-j spend it on field water-filtors. They had not done so yet, but ho supposed that they would adopt his suggestion. In conclusion, he would ask patriotic committees, etc., to approach him before taking steps of this nature, and he would advise them.—(Applause.) COMPLIMENTARY.

Mr G. Fcnwick said that Mr Allen had made an admirable speech. He had dealt with a number of things that had caused a. good deal of discuss.on clearly, lucidly, ana reasonably, and had satisfied the speaker that the Government was doing- all that it ought to do. Mr Allen had pointed out where there had been duplication, and had dealt with the vexed question of recruiting in a reasonable way. While the Government was willing to pay recruiting expenses, it was right that it should have some control over the expenditure. It would be wrong for a recruiting committee to have unlimited power to spend money without any Government control. The speaker was in accord with Mr Allen, and thought that he had dealt with matters in an admirable and reasonable spirit.—(Applause.)

Mr Allen: I should be glad of suggestions for controlling* the rccruiting expenditure.

SUGGESTIONS.

Mr J. A. Johnstone suggested that as it was difficult to estimate in advance what expenses might be incurred, it might be a way of overcoming tho difficulty to usk for a Government grant, not to exceed a certain sum, subject to approval of the posters and advertising material. He was speaking in connection with the Public Appeal Committee.

Another speaker expressed the opinion that the expense, except for posters, should be charged to the patriotic funds. Colonel Stoneham said that he did not think Mr Johnstone's view would meet the case. The difficulty was to put into effect tho suggestion that gentleman had made. Otago had not been supplying the quota asked for by the; department, and it was realised that the province was not doing the share it was expected to do. It was on account of that fact that the Recruiting Committee was brought into existence, and the committee was under the Mayor and city council, and not under the Patriotic Committee. It would bo able to work better as a rccruiting committee under the wing of the Patriotic Association. Any funds required for the expense of recruiting should be borne by the department. Recruiting was a duty of tho department, and if a recruiting committee did it, the department, should pay the necessary expenses. This had been agreed to. But when the Recruiting Committee applied for railway passes to Mosgiel and Port Chalmers it was informed at the local office of the Railway Department that there was no authority for the issue of such. Tt was then that Mr Allen had suggested that it would be better ;f the Patriotic Committee controlled the recruiting expenses, and paid them out of the Patriotic Fund. The sneaker understood that something like £14.000 had been subscribed unconditionally to the Patriotic Fund, and he thought that the idea in the minds of the subscribers was ncft tint, it should be used to defray the cost of performance of a duty that should be carried out hv the Department. He agreed th;it it was imivossihle to allow a committee in even- little place. But the loral committee hid been careful in its expenditure. Mr Allen said that then? was a sufficiency of men from the whole of New Zealand But there was not the resnonse that they would like from Otago, and it might come about, that some other province would find itself in a similar position. Tf efforts were relaxed, and the nvßer were left till actual necessity arose, difficulty might' be experienced Tt was the result, of the efforts of the Rccruiting Coinniitt-ee that, Oingo was showing ui> better at present. Tt was said that Otago was deficient in young men as compared with other provinces, and that tile beet of the youth had gone to the North Tslnnd. But it was necessary only to walk the street 5 to sec the Tiumber of men whose duty it was to go. It was the duty of the committee to work in such a way as to cxerciso a moral compulsion to get men

to go. He was sure that the committee could carry out the duty of recruiting better than tiie department. The officer commanding or olie of his subordinates might be on the Jtcruituig Commit!'e. lie took it. that there wer.' some things they would require, and if tliey were bound down to a hard and last iiile he fell, sure it would kill a certain .'iinount of (.he enthusiasm of the Recruiting < lonimittee. He did not think that t.he expenditure already incurre I had been excessive, and he thought, that t.he department, should be prepared to pay that. lie certainly considered that I lie expenses of the Recruiting Committee should lx' borne by the department. Mr F. \V. .Mitchell said that, they nuift appreciate very much the statement, made by Mr Allen, bi-cause it made their course very much clearer. It was extremely satisfactory to know that there would now be no claim for actual equipment. ORDERS ON THE MEN'S WAGE'S.

IST r F. G. Gumming made reference to t.he fact that the orders on the men's wages did not become operative till the men sailed from the dominion. Mr Allen: No; the order becomes operative after the first, month.

Mr Gumming said he would suggest that the orders become operative from the day the men entered tin- camps. Mr Allen said the pay for the first month was 4s per day for privates; then 5s per day was paid. The point had been discussed by him, and the reason why they did not adopt the procedure suggested by Mr Gumming wa.s the uncertainty whether the men would continue with them. They thought a month of probation was reasonable before they made an allotment to the dependents of the men. They, however, left it to the men themselves to make payments out of their first month's wages. He was perfectly prepared to reconsider the point if th(»y thought it would be wiser, although it would cause some inconvenience. He, however, thought that the position was best as it stood. DEATH FROM DISEASE. Dr Fulton remarked that for centuries past less jK'nhion had been paid to the dependents of those soldiers who died from disease than to those who had been killed in action, probably because the number of soldiers who so died was four against ono killed in action. In the Japanese war, however, with the aid of better hygienic arrangements, oniy one died of disease, as against four killed. He supposed the latter proportion ruled in the present war, and he did not sec why they should not pay the same sum to the dependents of those who died from disease as was paid to the dependents of those killed. CONCLUSION.

It was decided that the Recruiting Committee consider the information placed before it by Mr Allen at its next meet-

Mr Mitchell moved, and Mr Theomin seconded—'That Mr Allen be heart iy thanked for the manner in which he had explained matters, and that the meeting express its thorough confidenoe in tho manner in which the department is carrying out its difficult duties." The motion was carried unanimously, and a vote of thanks to the chair concluded the meeting.