HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 15885, 3 October 1913, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

The House met at 2.30 p.m. AEBITEATION BILL. In replying to Mr Russell, the PRIME , MINISTER stated thai he intended to place the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Bill on the Stetute Book this session. The Honse would also have an , opportunity, of dealing with the Shops and Offices Bill this session. POLICE.FORCE BILL. The Honse twai into committee to further consider the ?ohce Force Bill. The MINISTER agreed to delete that part of clause 19, providing that members dismissed from the force shall forfeit all pay, pension, or gratuities, after several members had pointed out the harshness of the provision. The clause dealing with the punishment of members of the force who seek to influence an election was altered to read that a culprit would be liable to a fine not exceeding £25, instead of a minimum of £5 and a maximum of £100. On the suggestion of Mr HANAN the provision that anyone could sue- for the recovery of the amount of a penalty was also deleted.

Sir J. G. WARD contended that the whole Bill was too drastic. If the clause nnder discussion was incorporated no policeman would feel safe.

The MINISTER said the. clause was very necessary, and no policeman need fear anything so long as he did not b'ecome a political tout.

The House divided on the motion to.include the danso as amended, the voting being : —For, 30 votes; against, 26. At the clause providing that the Minister may appoint committees of inquiry, Mr VEITCH moved to allow a recognised association of members of the force to make claims. He explained that he took that opportunity of getting an expression of opinion as to whether the Minister should recognise an association of police officers.

The Hon. Mr HERDMAN said he had already explained his reasons for not allowing the police to form an association. Such a proceeding would be submersivo of the discipline of the force. He could not accept the amendment. It was ridiculous, absurd, and inaccurate to state that the Bill was drastdc. It was more liberal than the present legislation. It,

must always be remembered that the police could join the Civil Service Association. The amendment was lost on the voices. A new clause, providing that the retiring age of the police shall be 65 years, was added to the Bill, The House.divided on an amendment moved by Mr WITTY, providing that every member of the force who feels aggrieved with any decision regarding his promotion shall have the right of appeal, such appeal to be heard within three months. The voting was: For the clause, 29; against, 32. > The Bill was then reported with amendments. CHBISTCHUBCH ELECTRICAL SUPPLY. , Mr RUSSELL, on behalf of Mr Davey, accepted the amendments made by the Legislative Council in the Christchurch Electric Supply Empowering Bill, HAURAKI PLAINS. The PRIME MINISTER moved the third reading of the.HauraH Plains Act Amendment Bill. Mr BUDDO twitted the Government with absorbing the Bills of its predecessors, of which this was one. Mr POLAND said the credit for opening up the Hauraki lands was due to Mr M'Nab while he was Minister of Lands. Sir J. G. WARD complained of the ambiguity of sub-section 4 of clause 2, under which it appeared that the amount of £137,000 -was to be deducted from the £145,000 which the Bill proposed to raise. He looked back with pleasure on the sue cess which had attended the efforts of his Government to settle these lands, considering the criticism to which he had been subjected in connection, therewith He also spoke in his best terms of the good work done by the i officials who had been placed in charge of the work and of Mr M'Nab, who had initiated the scheme of reclamation.

The Hon. Mr ■ MASSEY, in reply, claimed that the first suggestion made in Parliament regarding the reclaiming of the Hauraki plains came from him. He explained the financial point raised by Sir J. G. Ward by saying that the Bill did not ask for authority to raise any new money. It was only arranging to spend the money raised last year. • Previously the money had been raised under the Loans to Local Bodies' Act; but it was now considered better to give the Minister power to raise the money direct. It had been one of his most pleasant' duties as Minister of Lands to supervise the drainage of these rich and fertile plains. The.Bill was then read a third time and passed. LOAN BILL. The Hon. Mr ALLEN moved the third reading of the Aid to Public Works Bill.

Sir J. G. WARD said the Minister must by now have realised how necessary it was that this country must borrow for development purposes. He must have some qualms of conscience for the attacks which ho had in past yeare made upon him (Sir J. G. Ward) when he was in office and doing his best to .provide for the urgent public requirements. Now the Minister had to propose and eiipport the very thing which he had in previous years condemned his predecessors for doing. It was hypercritical for any member to declaim against borrowing for purposes which everyone knew in his heart was legitimate. The comparisons between New Zealand's and Australia's public indebtedness were often most unfair, be-, cause the circumstances were not always stated. No State in, Australia had had a Native war, and noDe of them had borrowed for the purpose of acquiring land 1 , for settlement or for lending to settlers; so that it was not possible to make a fair comparison between Australia' and New Zealand.' The present Government was no doubt now aware of the difference between the irresponsibilty of opposition and the responsibility of office. This point would be brought home to the Prime Minister, whom he asked the other day when the Public Works Statement would be brought down. He (Mr Massey) had not been able to say, but what had happened on August 29, 1911, when Mr Massey had demanded that the Public Works Statement and the Estimates should be before the House? Here we were in October, and no Public Works Statement was yet before them. Circumstances altered cases, and he hoped that Ministers would recognise that tho country could not do without borrowing, and that for the future they would do him, an opponent, the justice of giving him credit for acting in the best interests of the country.

In the course of a personal explanation Sir J. G. WARD stated that he had never since his entry into Parliament received one penny that was not authorised by Parliament He also desired to state publicly that he had within the past few weeks instructed his solicitors to proceed against a man who had caused a printed pamphlet to be placed in the hands of members of the House.

Mr RUSSELL said he proposed to show that the Massey Government had in creased the public debt. On naval defence the Massey Government had spent £393,750, and the Mackenzie Government £131,250; on public , works, the Massey Government £2,032,042, the Mackenzie Government £355,497; railways—Massey £250,207, Mackenzie £7026; ' lands for settlement—Massey £277,711, Mackenzie £150,333; Crown'lands—Massey £46,163, Mackenzie £1788; Native lands—Massey £95,758, Mackenzie £11,092; State advances—Massey £1,449,000, Mackenzie £483,000, A total of £4,391,639 had been spent by the Massey Government from borrowed money as against £1,141,774 by

the Mackenzie Government. Yet of that amount Mr Massey said he had only spent £2,925,460. He maintained that the correct policy for the Government to pursue was to borrow to the- fullest extent possible, so as to enable the people to obtain cheap money. He pointed out that the difference between the Ward and the Massey Governments vras that the former had in 1911 lent to settlers, workers, and local bodies £3,579,660, while under the Massey Government only £1,933,990 had been advanced through those channels.

Mr WITTY agreed with the previous speakers, that there had been more borrowing this year than previously, notwithstanding the statements by the Reform party that they were going to curtail borrowing. . Mr HANAN argued in a similar strain, contending that the preset occupiers of the Treasury benches had falsified their pledges concerning caution and non-bor-rowing. Mr MACDONALD took the member for Tanmaruniii to task for stating recently that the Government got only 7s 6d worth of work for every pound expended on public works. If that statement were correct then the whole of the officers of the Public Works Department should be dismissed.

The Hon. Mr ALLEN,, in replying, asked if it could be argued that the huge expenditure of the past on building schemes could be persisted in. No man with any idea of sound finance could allow the things of the past to go on. He challenged the figures quoted by Mr Russell, =md_ pointed out that his figures were one million out., Dealing with the increased cost of interest on mortgages he asked if there was any country in the world where the cost of money had not increased within the last few years. The Bill was read a third time. The House rose at 1.50 a.m.