GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 14916, 19 August 1910, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. THURSDAY., AUGUST 18. Tho Council met at 2.30 p.m. THE CRIMES ACT. The debate on tho second reading of the Crimes Act Amendment Dill was resumed by the Hon. Mr CARNCROSS, who generally approved of the measure, which had a noble aim—to elevate the criminal. Ha urged, however, that some provision should be made for limiting tho age of ihoso sent to reformatories. IL would Us a mistake to placo in reformatories men who had spent many years in criminal pursuits. Regarding Mr Eigg's opposition to teaching prisoners a trade, surely a higher stand should be taken than the prevention of a little extra competition. The amount, of competition with free labour would be almostnegligible. It was to the interest of the trades unions that theso unfortunates when liberated should have some means of earning a livelihood. The Hon. Mr LOUGHNAN pointed out that the operation of the prison system in England hud the advantage of being economical, efficient, and uniform, but nothing was said about the reform of criminals, which should bo tho great thing aimed at. The Attorney-general's system went further than the Borslall system, for it was a system for compelling reform. It sought to make prisoners so disgusted with their surroundings as to resolve to do better in future. A prisoner, in fact, was brought into a condition of wishing for reform. If the principle was admitted that employment, should be found for prisoners he'could not see why they should be restricted to tho lower and unskilled trades. He believed that tho great majority of prisoners who were reformed under the new system would go upon the land upon their liberation, so that they really would not disturb labour' interests. He "believed that it was a very fine system, based upon a rational method of treating criminals.

The Hon. Mr M'GOWAN said lie did not think' it right to uso the funds of the State to teach skilled trades to those who had forfeited their places in society, and it would certainly be wrong' to pamper prisoners in the way proposed. It was not right to his mind to make all this provision for reform at the public expense, \vhi)!o |hoi>.e,st people who were earning a living in a fair way were not as well clothed or fed. This'was where a great deal of consideration would bo required. Concerning the proposal to establish a board to deal with the question of fitness of prisoners for liberation, ho hoped tho Attorney-General would never establish it. The Minister should take that rropcmsibilrty upon himself. He had not a right to shirk it. Tho debate was then adjourned, and tho Council Tose.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

The House- met at 2.30 p.m. ' CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES. Mr M.ASSEY asked the Acting Leader of the House (Mr Carroll) what had been decided upon in regard to tho appointment of a Chairman of Committees. Mr Carroll said the information would be placed before tho House in a week. PERTINENT QUESTIONS. Mr TAYLOR said Parliament was now in its eighth week, and important bills, which had been referred to in th» Governor's Speech, had not yet been circulated. There was an impression that, these bills would be deferred till the last few weeks of the session. Ho asked if a Licensing Bill would be brought down this session. Mr CARROLL said that if the length of'the; financial deEate could be-taken''as' a criterion tho wssion would be a very long ■ one. ,'Bilk* would be circulated is soon : >: possible.' One of. the bills:feferrred-. to was .already on" the Order Paper.-'.: "<■ ;•■;■ •-■ - - ■■'-.;••■ . ■■'.'- MINING ACT."- . ; '. The Mining Act Amendment Bill'-was introduced by Governor's Message, and was read a first time. JUNIOR CADETS. . On tho motion of Mr FOWLDS, that tho report of the New Zealand JuniorCadets lie qn tho table, . ; -->lr T. E. TAYLOR asked the Minister if. ho was aware that the Crown law officers had held that alcoholic liquors could not be _ kept out of drilling sheds, and if provision would be mads to prohibit liquor being permitted in. such places.

Mr ALLEN asked if the Defence Department had been consulted as to tie proposal to hand over the control of the Senior Cadets, to f-ho Education Department. This, in 'lis opinion, would be detrimental to the Senior Cadets, and ho hoped the Minister would consider the advisability of altering the clause in the bill. It would .be very unwise to spend too much on (he Junior Cadets. Their training might be the basis of a training to be completed by the Senior Cadets.

The Han. Mr FOWLDS, in replying to Mr Taylor, said ho yias not aware, of th 6 legal decision referred to, but ho would take'steps to see that the decision of the House last session in prohibiting liquor in drill sheds would be given effect to. As to Mr Allen's remarks on the Cadets, he said that the Minister of Defence and himself were anxious to see the 'Cadet system as perfect as possible, He agreed that it was undesirable to. spsnd money on expensive organisation for the Junior Cadets. He would be glad to give the matter further consideration, but the clause was merely intended to facilitate the co-working of the Boy Scouts and the Cadet systems. A PETITION. The Petitions Committee reported that it had no recommendation to make regarding the petition of Frederick Tetley. Mr J. DUNCAN moved that the matter bo rcferrred back to the committee for reconsideration, and after discussion this was agreed to. INADEQUATE RETIRING ALLOWANCE. ' The committee reported on the petition of John Smith that it' had no recommendation to make. Mr J. DUNCAN moved that the petition bo referrred back to the committee for reconsideration. The facts of the case showed that Smith spent most of his life as a teacher and inspector of schools, and was now in his 77th year. Ho had only about £79 in the shape of a retiring allowance. This was due to the fact that he. was not entitled to the advantages of the new superannuation scheme at the time of retirement.

Mr ALLEN dwelt at length on- the hardships of such cases, where men who had been engaged in the noble work of teaching had after long service to retire on a scanty allowance. He was not in favour of the superannuation fund being weakened by payments to meet such claim!, but he 1 considered that they might 'bo met by votes on tho Supplementary Estimates.

The amendment was also supported by Mr RUSSELL and Mr MASSEY, the latter advocating that the Education Committee should make a recommendation to the House with reference to such cases.

4 Mr FOWLDS said it ought to be borne in mind that Parliament had in 1905 made Mr Smith a free'gift of £79 a year. He had retired in 1907. Until tli3 passing of the 1905 act Mr Smith was not entitled to any pension at all. A large number of teachers had retired from the profession just previous to 1906. when the act came into operation, and their claims were greater than the claims of those who retired after the passing of tl'.e act, noiiie of whom could have paid more than two years' contributions into the pension fund. Mr Smith had been retained in the education service for many years past the age of full- usefulness at a salary of over £200 a vear.

Mr HOGG criticised the remarks of Mr Fowlds, and said the treatment of M Smith was a disgrace to' the Education Department.

Mr MALCOLM supported the amend ment.

Mr DUNCAN asked leave to alter his amendment so that the committee be asked to consider all cases similar to that of tho petitioner. After further discussion by Messrs SIDEY and STALLWORTHY, the amendment was put -,nd carried. SECOND HEADINGS. The following local bills passed their second' reading :—Hastings Electric Power and Loan Empowering. Chrislehurch Tramway District Act, 1906, Amendment, Nelson City Drainage Loan and Empowering, Gisborne Harbour Act, 1905, Amendment. THE TOWN BOARDS ACT AMENDMENT. The second reading of the Town Boards Act Amendment.Bill was moved by the Jton. Mr BUDDO', who explained that the bill empowered town boards to raise rates fcr water supply, lighting, sanitation, and establishing public libraries. Mr MASSEY, while supporting the bill, complained that it did not go far enough. Hs asked for a comprehensive measure of iocal government. Mr ELL dealt at .length with local government and subsidies to local bodies. He looked forward to a larger local government bill. After fivrtlicb discussion by Messrs ANDERSON and STALLWORTHY tho Minister replied, and the second reading was carried. STONE QUARRIES BILL. The House' went into committee on the Stoiw Quarries Bill. The Housa rose at 5.30 p.m. In tho evening progress was ''reported on the Stone Quarries Bill. PUBLIC HEALTH ACT. Mr SIDEY then moved the second reading of the Public Health Act Amendment 'Bill, which provides that on the certificate of a district health officer a local authority may require the owner to pull down any building which is ruinous or insanitary. Mr Sidey, in a lengthy explanation of the bill, dilated on similar legislation in the Old Country and Europe. i Mr HANAN said he censideved that the bill gave too great power to the local bodies in deciding whether buildings were insanitary or not.

The Hon. Mr BUDDO said the provisions of the bill might operate hardily on owners who had no say as to whether buildings should remain. He admitted that tho provisions in the Public Health Act - were insufficient to deal with insanitary dwellings, and that, further power ought to bo given to a district health officer and a local authority to wipe out slums. He suggested that the bill ought to be amended so as to allow an owner to state his case before a magistrate. The Hon. T. Y. DUNCAN opposed the second reading. Mr HOGG said ho considered the bill ought to have been introduced long ago. Ho held that a magistrate -was tho proper authority to deal with slum property, and he advised that the bill should be held over for further consideration in committee.

Dt T. RANGI HIROA said that the whole difference, between the Public Health Act and the bill was making it im-p&rativo on a magistrate to order the destruction of insanitary buildings. He aproyed of the bill in the interests of public health, and adduced figures showing how intimately the public health was connected with the housing of the people. He also quoted Mr John Burns on tho Town Planning Bill, which made landlords liable for keeping their houses in a fit state for human habitation. The figures quoted showed the necessity for safeguarding the public health and the lives of children. During 1908, out ot 7000 houses visited in Dunedin 3729 were found to have sanitary defects, and country towns showed similar results, all of which went to prove the need of the bill, Power should be vested in the Public Healt.li Department, and not bo divided between two authorities.

Mr WILFOKD said the object of the bill could easily b3 attained by . slight alterations in the principal act. The provision in the Wll'giving a magistrate full discretionary power was objectionable as being too arbitrary.

Mr T. E. TAYLOR supported the bill, He said that u large number of houses in the cities should have been pulled down before this. The cost of the necessary destruction ought to be borne by the community. It would be better to leave the power in the hands of a council rather than wia a magistrate. The time was not far' distant when further restrictions Would bo placed on individuals. Sir WRIGHT pointed out that the expense involved in the wholesale destruction of •dwellings would cause increased rents. This kid happened in Wellington. He objected to the statement that the slums of New Zealand were as bad as any in the Old Country.

Mr GLOVER said the crux of the whole •'question was high rents, causing subletting. The Government ought to erect suitable dwellings for the workers to remove this difficulty.

Mr LAURENSON supported the bill. He cited Wellington as an example of a badly built city, and hoped that some day it: would be removed to a more suitable eite. Our streets were built without regard to beauty or uniformity of architecture. He hoped the bill would bo the forerunner of a much larger and more comprehensive measure, which would

compel the municipalation to go in for town-planning.

Mr POOLE said it- was gratifying to see that more interest \roe being taken in the welfare of humanity, as evinced by the bill. The salvation of our cities depended on giving the medical authorities •power to condemn insanitary structures. When visiting Hamburg he found that the poorer quarters were subject to .strict supervision as regards cleanliness ami solution. He considered that Dr Te Rangi Hiroa was entitled to high praise for Ins edifying speech, which had been unjustly animadverted on by Mr Wright.

Mr E. H. TAYLOR said the land question had much to do with high rents and shims ill the large cities. It was time that towns were planned j-o that no houses had a section less than a quarter-acre. Many districts had no regulations as to house-building and town-planning.

Mr HALL was of opinion that the bill should have been a Government one. Houses wcrs often rendered insanitary through the uncleaiiliiiess of the occupants. If the individual interest were sacrificed for the general interest compensation ought to be given. The insanitary slate of houses was largely due to the scrim and paper Utilised for the walls. Mr .ELL mentioned cases showing the necessity for drastic powers being conferred to a health officer. Mr Sidcy bad gone to a. great deal of trouble in gathering facts which he had placed before the House. Under the existing legislation there was quite sufficient power conferred on medical officers in connection with insanitary dwellings. Ho mentioned what had been dono by various rural districts in the way of preventing overcrowding by utilising the present law. He denied that the system of rating caused overcrowding, which was found under any mode of rating. Mr M'LAHKN said he considered that the bill would require modification in committee.

Mr HOG AX saiS the bill was quite unnecessary, .is sufficient power was confc_rred_ by the Public Health Act to deal with insanitary areas.

Mr NGATA said the main differences between the amending and principal bills was that local authority was allowed to use its discretion in acquiring an owner to pull down a building, and power was given to a- district health officer.

Mr SIDEY said he considered that the discussion had not been very encouraging to him. Legislation in the" Old Country had gone in the direction of taking the authority for closing down insanitary houses from a magistrate and conferring it on a municipality. He expressed his indebtedness to Dr Te Rangi Hiroa. for his approval of the bill and his valuable contribution to the debate. He went over tho chief amendments in the Public Health Act proposed by the bill, and said that if the discussion led to legislation in the direction of the bill then it had not been in vain.

The second leading was earned on the voices.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL REFORM. The House went into Committee on the Legislative Council Reform Bill.

On clause 5, which provides for the election of councillors by the electors; Mr FORBES moved as an amendment that the House of Representatives should elect the members of the Council.

After discussion Mr CARROLL moved to report progress, and the House rose at 0.10 a.m.