GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 14899, 30 July 1910, Page 8

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES,

FRIDAY, JULY 29. Tho House met at 2.30 p.m. ■ THE FINANCIAL DEBATE.

Mr E. H, TAYLOR resumed tho Financial Debate. He dilated upon the various names of the Opposition, which ho compared with tho aliases of criminals adopted to caver up misdeeds of the past. Referring to the land question,' ho held that the great majority of the people who wcro landless should hive a say in deciding the tenure on which tho land should be hold. The people ought to bo consulted before the freehold of the Crown lands was disposed of. It was • necessary to have either State or private landlordism, and he preferred the former. 110 pointed to the English farmer as an instance of an-agriculturist who had no hope of obtaining tho freehold, yet who obtained tho best results from the soil, He had had some experience of private landlordism in Taranaki, which he found productive of sweating. He approved of the proposal in the Budget to abolish tlic boards of education, and hoped the time •Would soon come when the wholo control of education would be in the' hands of the Education Department. Referring to mining, Mr Taylor said the land question was associated with this industry. There ought to bo better means of settling goldfiokls lands. The difficulty was the overlapping of the Lands and 'Mines Departments. Much of this land was fit for settlement, and ft strong desire had been expressed for longer leases and bettor conditions generally. He hoped the Government would do everything to conserve the great national asset it possessed in the water power, resources. Mr WILFORD referred to the financial state of the Dominion, and condemned thfl_ excessive over-valuation of lands which obtained all over tho country. There was no want o.f confidence amongst investors. What was responsible for any timidity was the scare caused by articles in a certain section of the press. , These articles were not written by experts on ■ the subject treated. Newspaper editors ought to preach a policy of self-reliance and ■ capacity to do, and not write dispiriting articles calculated to cause the vory trouble complained of. Mr Wilford complained of the hurried manner '■ in which legislation was passed through tho House, and suggested that bills ought not to be passed till a session ha-d elapsed after going through the Legislature. As a means of improving the' trado of the Dofmimon, lie proposed that a Boyal Commission composed of experts in the prodnoe of the country should be set up' to investigate tho best- means of developing trade. This would assist statesmen in the Old Country to understand the negds of New Zealand, and perhaps induce a measure of reciprocity. ■ Referring to the extinction of the public debt proposals, he asked if it was worth while setting aside sinking funds if the country h&d to go on borrowing to provide them. The idea of extinguishing the National Debt was .a good one. He asked what relation the Government would bear towards tho sinking funds, supposing at some future time there was. a "need . for money, and it was impossible to get loans on the British market. He had confidence in the future o,f the Dominion, though we were passing through dull times,

• Mr NOSWORTHY gave his reasons for being a freeholder. He favoured tha granting of leases to men of limited means with the option of purchase. The chief difference between a freeholder and a leaseholder was 011 the unimproved value. He held that the present value of the lands was chiefly created by the farmers, to who;m it rightly belonged. He was a strong believer in a Civil Service' Board. He concluded his specch by making a number of figurative allusions to the Ministers of Education and Agriculture.

Mr HOGG said the Opposition proposed not only that the freehold of Crown lands shonkl be sold, but that the national endowments should be parted with. It was proposed to buy further lands with the money obtained from the sale of the iieople's "heritage. Wore the Crown tenants demanding the freehold ? Many'of those possessing tho freehold would be glad to be in' the position of Crown tenants. • The holders of encum-! bered. freeholds. had to work hard for the fat men in the cities. His remedy for the land hunger was to break up monopoly, and make it, if not a crime, a luxury. He hoped that when the Land Kill came dowai it would ooataan provision. for preventing a man who, had been successful at the ballot from again competing with those who had not had a chanco of - settling 7 on land. He concluded by condemning the methods of leasing the Maori lands in the King Country, where several families had obtained areas running into thousands of acres at nominal rentals.

In the ovening Mr HOGG continued his speech on Native land settlement in the King Country. He kid the blame for the mode of leasing on hasty legislation, which resulted in a very fine tract of country .being acquired'by land speculators., The 6ame thing had happened in his own electorate. He suggested that a commission' of inquiry be set up to investigate the circumstances connected with the leasing of Native lands in the King Country. Referring to the wiping out of the National Debt, ho said tho best way to extinguish the debt was to cease borrowing. A State currency would lessen the periods of financial stringency and place the Dominion beyond the control of the foreign money-lender. He quoted the example ■ of 1 Australia, and urged tho Dominion to follow the lead of the Commonwealth in issuing a currency of its own.

Mr HERDMAN said he had listened to Mr Hogg with interest, as he, found the member for Masterkm always original and sincere, but'he could not agree with Mr Hogg's financial views. Mr. Herdnun's chief complaint was that at the ■present time there was too much interference with the financial' institutions; indeed,, in all departments of life there were too many traces of politics., This had been recognised, by Lord Kitchener, who saw a danger of the defence system being vitiated by political influence. If Mr Hogg's_ statements regarding the leasing of Native land? in tho King Country were correct, then ■ it_ was discreditable to the Government, ami he was surprised that Mr Hogg had not supported the Opposition on the want-of-confide-ice motion. The supporters of the Government who voted with the Opposition had plainly indicated their lade of confidence in the Government, which was afraid to declare itself on the land question. Ho accused the Government of yielding to popular clamour on every occasion. Referring to the statement of the Prime Minister -that, since' ttie retrenchment scheme had been inaugurated the sum of £320,000 had been saved, Mr Herdman said that was contradicted by a statement in the Budget, whtoh only showed a saving of £98,000. Tho financial operations of the Government during vecent years had been of an extraordinary character. The Treasurer had to provide for new loans, for redemption, and for the renewal of debentures into stock. The total* debt of the Dominion was now over £74,000,000—an increase of £3,477,000 since last year. . Borrowing was necessitated By the Government undertaking the whole of the lending operations in the country. The Advances to Settlers Office, which was originally designed to assist struggling settlers, was now undertaking all kinds of lending. The system of. borrowing on short-dated debentures was becoming very costly owing to the necessity for renewals. In 1908 it cost the Government £16.385 to arrange fer renewals, and in 1910 the amount was 560.150. No satisfactory information had ever been given in regard to finance, which penetrated into every concern of the country. He was hot sure .that the scheme for extinguishing the public debt would achieve its object. It seemed designed rather to nia-ke borrowing easier. IT £150,000 were set aside each year to provide a sinking fund, then there would be this amount less to transfer to the Public Works Fund, and it would be necessary to borrow the money paid to the sinking fund. It would be better to have raised the £150,000 by means of taxation.. The Government had attempted to drive men with capital out of tie country by continual harassment, and in-

dufitries other than those concorned with primary products were in a state of decline. He cited figures in support of this contention, and asked what was the cause of the decline. The Government ought seriously to consider this question, and to endeavour to encourage capitalists to invest thoir money in manufacturing industries. Ho condemned the policy of weakening individual effort by the State, and advocated a policy making foT strength all. round. The Hon: T. MACKENZIE said Mr Herman's advice would do the vory tiling the latter deprecated. Referring to industries, ho said that in 1901 there were 3680 works and 46,000 hands, and in 1906 thoy had increased to "4185 work's and 56,000 hands, One of tie cardinal planks in the Farmers' Union platform was taxation for revenue purposes only. How would that affect the woollen trade ? Tho increase in expenditure complained of by Mr Herd man had been made in connection with public services such as railways, the post and telegraph service, and education. The figures quoted by the Prime Minister as being the amount saved by retrenchment were supplied by the heads of ■ departments. He took strong exception to Mr Hei'dman ignoring the revenue for the period mentioned by him as .showing' extravagant expenditure. Tliere never was a time whfci a man could find, such profitable investment for his money. No notice had been taken of tho money spent on the acquisition of the Maimwatu railway, which was showing a handsome return. Touching on taxation, Mr Mackenzie aiked Mr Herdman | if he recollected having suggested that duties should be levied on sugar and kero- | sene. There had been no increase in the Customs duties and the land tax as alleged by Mr Herdman,

Mr Massey : We put. taxation .up half a million last session. >

Mr Mackenzie ; Wo are endeavouring to put the taxation on tho shoulders of those best able to boar it. No notice had been taken by the financial critics of the Government of the amount received as the return on the investmont .made with loans, which in some cases exceeded the interest thereon. Referring to the sinking funds, Mr Mackenzie said Mr Herdman's conclusion that £150,000 would ■have to be borrowed annually to provido these was entirely wrong. Ho accused Mr Massey of changing front on the land question so far as the terms upon Which the:, freehold should be granted wore concerned. It was entirely wrong to say that capital was overbunlened in the Dominion. Wealth was accumulating at a greater rate than ever before; Mr Mackenzie entered a protest against the chargo of lammanyism made by Mr Massey at Taumanuiui, and said he doubted if tho Leader of the Opposition knew the meaning of the word. M; Mackenzie concluded his speech by referring to the population problem. It was a regrettable fact that the birthrate was declining. Had the increase been in proportion with that of 1879 there /would have been 14,000 more births. He referred in terms of praise to Mr Tregear's poem inspired by the population problem, and said that efforts ought to be mase to increase the number of workers on the land. No country under the sun gave a man a better opportunity than New Zealand.

Sir HEUDMAN rose to make a personal explanation. Mr Mackenzie had said that lie had favoured duties on the necessaries of life, but that was not so. He had only mentioned what the Prima Minister might have done -last session in order to raise the amount required. Mr DIVE challenged the accuracy of Mr Mackenzie's statements in regard to retrenchment and taxation. He doubted whether the sum of £200,000 had been saved as the result of retrenchment. He supported the proposal to set up a Civil Service Board. He was glad to see that the Government contemplated the introduction 'of legislation dealing with the rating of Native lands, but he doubted if this would be done.

The debate was adjourned, and the House rose at 11.5 p.m,