THE RVENSBOURNE RECLAMATION

Otago Daily Times, Issue 14785, 18 March 1910, Page 2

THE RVENSBOURNE RECLAMATION

COMMITTEE OF IXQUtRY.

THE ATMOSPHERE CLEARED

A meeting of the committee appointed by the Otago Harbour Hoard to inquire into the position in connection with this land ! was held last evening at 7.45; present—) i Messrs G. B. Bullock (in the chair), Duthio, ; Watson, Colfred, Gow, Houton, jJclchcr. j and I'latts. Apologies for absence wcio I received from Messrs 'Wilkinson ami Mac- i kerra*. Mr Loudon was absent at the commencement of the nsevtimf. but arrived at 8.13. MR BELCHER BELLIGERENT. . It was moved that Mr Bullock take the chair. Mr Belcher; Is it permissible for somo body to be voted to the chair until there is a full meeting? I am going to raise t-iio question as to whether it is permitsii;,'); for this committee to proceed until there is ,a. full meeting of the members who have been called together lo inquire into this ■matter. '■ Mr Mason (the secretary) said he had received apologies for absence from Messrs Wilkinson and Mackerras. A show ot I'aiids resulted in Mr Bullock being installed in the chair. The Chairman said tlhe meeting had been called to consider u resolution carried by the board appointing a committee to report upon the circumstances of the ociiupancy of the reclamation land by Mt>ssr.< i Barclay and Koss. Tile details ami all the j records of the hoard had been typewritten, j and each member had a copy before him. I ■Mr Belcher: lielora the meeting pro- ! feeds any further, i would like to ask your' ruling upoii the question as to whether it j is permissible for « meeting of this de- ' scription, which is not attended by the ! full members of the boird, to start an j inquiry inio this matter at all. Ii has been j ruled tii:on a previous occasion that whore i the fuli number of the committee has not i been present it is out of order to | go on with the proceedings, 1" eonlcril i that it is not permissible, because there is I no tolling in which ■ direction tho absent I members my vote, supposing they v.cre i present, and I think these pro\.N.diii£(i ! should be adjourned until, at nnyrato, wo j get a full muster of members of the board, i 'J will move,, if it is necessary, that the 1 meeting be adjourned until a full attend- i ancc of members can bo obtained. i 'The Chairman: 1 don't remember parti- i ciilars of tile occurrence you refer to. In j tho present, instance I take it that every i member had notice to attend, anil T do jj.jfc : think their absence prevents ihe inuuiry ; from, proceeding. If you are right," one j man staying away could block ;i nv busi- i ncss that might come forward. Tim meet- I ing is quite in order to proceed with the | iiuijness. j Mr liclchcr: It was yourself who on one ' occasion drew attention to the fact that I there was not a full meeting of a commit- : appointed co inquire into! a certain i subject,- and it was owing lo your objee- | tion that the meeting was dissolved. ! Mr-I'latts: How many are absent? j The Chairman: Mr L-oudon is the only ! one unaccounted for. I understand you have all the records of the board before! you in this matter, and, that being so, I ! •;hall ask some member to'move. j Mr Belcher: I shall move that, in the' 1 interests of the public, which is materially concerned.in the result of the inquiry proposed to be held by the board into the leasing of the Ravensbottrne reclamation, ; it. is necessary that a full report of . the proceedings should be available, and ! thai Mr Thomson, of the Hansard staff, Ik engaged to take a verbatim report of the proceedings of this inquiry, and that Ihe persons asking for the inquiry bo requested : to i<ay any expense incurred in regard to the inquiry. I move that for the reason that, two gentlemen conneclcd with the 1 board—Messrsßarclay and Ross-have, for ■ reasons of their own, asked that an inquiry should be held into the matter of the . leases that llicy held of (he Havciisbou-rne ' endowment, or rather the Ravensbourne : reclamation. Why tlicy have asked for • that- inquiry is a matter best- known io themselves. Why we should be called together for the purpose of inquiring into the matter is beyond my comprehension altogether. No member of this board, so far as I know, has made any accusation against : . Mr Barclay or Mr Koss, and I fail io Mnuerstand why we should bo called to- : getlier to inquire into the matter. It will I bo necessary to go into certain 'details, and i while one can give kudos to the press for i giving a fair condensed report, it- is quite understood that- it cannot give full" df jails in an inquiry of this kind. I think, in the interests ot all concerucd- viictilarly of Mr Barclay and Mr Ito r V ii: j should be a shorthand writer hero i- lake a noto of everything, that transpires ill connection with the matter. If anything lias hocn said wrong about them, though certainly not by this board, and they want to get them'--' es whitewashed, it is right and proper ti.. they should pay for it. It will be my pleasure very shortly to movo a resolution giving the order of reference in which the inquiry shall be held. Mr Godfred said if Mr Belcher would - withdraw that portion of the motion as to the expense borne by Messrs Barclay and Koss ho would second it. Mr Belcher said he was quite willing to amend the motion as suggested. Tho motion was then amended, put to tho meeting, and lost. Mr Belcher: I shall now move that this meeting be adjourned. Tho motion lapsed for want of a seconder. Mr Belcher:. I shall now move tho order ot reference for t-he conduct of the inquiry. TJi<? order of reference proposed by Mi- Belchcr was an extremely lengthy one, and contained 30 issues. In speaking to this order of reference, Mr Belcher said that it was stated by the secretary at the last moeting of the Reserves Committee, when the surrender of the lease came along, that there would be no control over the land, and it would be necessary for the board to appoint someone to look after it and keep cattle from wandering on the railway line. Me would ask, Had Messrs Barclay and Ross kept such a watch? lie did not. thjnk t.hcy had, and it therefore appeared to him that the making of such a statement was all attempt to impose upon the credulity of the board. Mr Belcher was proceeding somewhat verbosely and leisurely when Mr Platts rose to a point of order. Were they, he said, there to inquire into what the Reserves Committco had done? It was getting late, and they had already wasted a lot of time. If thoy were going to hold an inquiry let them hold it. The Chairman ruled Mr Belcher in order in speaking to his motion. Mr Belcher took 10 more minutes to say he would movo the order of .reference. Mr Godfred seconded it pro forma. Mr Platts moved as an amendment— "That the order of -rcforence be: (1) That we deal first with tho documents -relating to tho tenancy; (2) that we take the evidence of Messrs Ross and Barclay, and the evidence of any members of the public who might be present.." This, ho Mid, was a simple way of getting at the whole of the . truth, and 1 would enable them to get on with the business. Mr. Gow seconded the amendment promptly, and it was carried. Mr Belcher, speaking at length, asked if the -right public was present-. Who had been aslie'd to- attend? The amendment was too summary, and was improper. ATTEMPTED PACIFICATION. Mr Loudon moved as a further amendment—" That, in the opinion of this boa.rd, no good purpose would be served by pursuing the question of the Ravensbourne endowments further, for the following reasons: (a) That the lands were leased lo Messrs Barclay and Ross with the full con■sent and knowledge of the board, and it (the board) must accept the full iesponai"

bilily therefor; (b) that the condition and terms of the lease have been curried out by Messrs Barclay ami Ross; (c) seeing tlmt the lease has been surrendered, the only question' affecting the board is as to the methods to bo adopted in future dealings with the lands in question." Speaking to his motion, Mr Loudon said ho did not see that thoy icoulcl get any further in I ho matter. As lie had said in his motion, there had been no secrecy. Every member of the board knew the exact position at the time arrangements were made, so that the board, ii seemed to Mm, should accept the full responsibility. He did not hold a brief for Messrs Ross and Barclay or anyone else. but as there was no secrecy, surely it was too late in the day lo pillory theso men when if was the board's own fault, if there was any fault at all. In regard to clause (li) <tf his motion, he would like enlightenment upon the question as to whether the lessaos had carried out the terms of the lea.se in various matters, If these conditions had been carried out the board had no right to go back and mak, any complaint with respect to its tenants. He did not wish to hurk any inquiry. Ik moved the motion simply because he believed no good ouuld result. Mr Watson seconded the amendment, and said he was quite satisfied that everything had been in order since the beginning. It had been the very best thing- for tho Kavenslxmrno land !o remain fallow all these years, because now the railway could l;J;o tiic land it -equircd without any Iroulb ili' fell strongly with Mr Loudon that i; v:ou!d b" quite a mistake lo pursue the subject. Thoy were there beating the air, and all that Mr Belcher had been saying had simply been adding fuel to the fire. He hoped (tie ii!>ici:diM?iit would bo carried and the matter closed. The public would be quite satisfied if the beard was satisfied." ,\i.- Miufitroii iislccd *v-i* ii i'air to :Ue*£.iis Ross ami Barclay that this amendment ! should he made at this stage. Now they wero on the work it should be cleared up so that no insinuations could be made ill the future. i Mr I'latts requested the chairman's ruling as to whether the amendment was competent. • The Chairman said he thought it was. Mr Belcher rose ana suggested that the amendment was evidence of a desire to burk inquiry. Mr Loudon disclaimed this. Mr Belcher said that tile inquiry should go oil. He was given to understand that the Borough of West Harbour had been rated on this land, and this was one of the things thoy wished to find out. He concluded by saying that it appeared evident to bim that the board did not wi.-ii to hold any inquiry; it was scarcely worth while, therefore, for him to remain there. Mr Belcher thereupon retired. .Mr fiow said ho thought it nonsense to put the amendment. Mr Loudon said ho did not wish to press it. If any fresh matter eouV! lie produced he would understand it, but as it was they were wasting time. Ho had no desire whatever to hinder the fullest inquiry, but ho was convinced, as he bad already slated,, (hat no good purpose would be served. A great deal of publicity had been tfiven, and he did not thinl; any fui.-tJies* information would be elicitcd. li. however, it was the wish of the board, with the consent of his seconder, he would with■drew his amendment, and asked leave accordingly. The permission of the seconder (3-Jr Watson) being given, the amendment was withdrawn. Mr Platte's motion therefore rcmaincd in force, and at 9.10 p.m. the inquiry was commenced. Mr Plat Is conducting- the main examination of witnesses. THE INQUIRY COMMENCES. The lease was then read by the secretary, and Mr Loudon tihereuiion asked if • h<; conditions had been carried out. The secretary answered that lie had never had any ctmipiaint thai they had not been. It was furtner stated that Mr Barclay had nad a section oi land granted bj- the board before this lease had been taken up, and on this he was paying a rent. It was on this section that '-the stables had been Mo buildings had been erccicd on the land in question. Since Messrs Barclay and Ross had taken over the land the l!;:i:\ray Department had made, no com- I plaint about wandering cattle. AH I he corh'spmidcnco ant! the lease belli- then accepted by the coinmiitee >"o. I order o[ reference was closed. , Coming to (lie second order, Mr Cow, a.sl;c<{ what use the athletic clubs iiad made of this land' during all these years. Alr liarclay said ho had anticipated that the inquiry would hinge upon this point, and lie had therefore asked the officials of the various -clubs to attend and"• give evidence. The important matter, to liis mind, .was whether Mr Hoss and himself j'.ad complied with, the self-imposed comlilions on winch they were supposed to ge{ the land. Those conditions were cm--I,,IUJ''S h' ll e- r . but not in tho lease. Mr H. Crawley, secretary of t!he ftavensbourne Association Football Club, said he iiad been conncetcvi will, Die club since its formation live years ago. They had played on the ground referral to, and had never naa any difliculty in connection with access to it nor had, so far as he knew, anv ol ?. oth ?' eluos ' There had been no 'difficulty either in regard to grazing 'cattle. Anuy had always anticipated when the matter with tne railway was finished with that they-would have an area of four or ttve acres allotted by the l-oard for rccreation purposes. , M, 1 ' Elaekie, secretary of the Rugbv Club, oasd they iiu<l ahvays had access to the ground, which had been a boon to them, -ttieie hau never been any trouble. No buildings on tlip ground affected tluir He believed it was correct that • ;"i l! 0 >'> Messrs Ross a,,,l Barclay seemed Ute tfroinui fur Ktivonsbouriio. Mr George, of the Boating Club, said every taoility had lioen given the club in cornice! ion with the -endowment. Thoro were three slips, affecting eight boats. llie.se covcred a lot of ground, but there had never been any trouble with them.' They had at all times had free access. At regatta times there were generally 300 or

400 people on the endowment, but there was never any complaint. They had never paid tho lessee anything for tho right to have tho slips there, and lie did not, believe tho question of payment by any ntheltic body had over been raised. Messrs Crawley and Blaekie, recalled, said their clubs had Jiover been asked to pay anything either. In logard to grazing, Mr Barclay said for some time past thcro had been very few applications for grazing, for tho now dairy regulations had interfered with the practiw of people keeping cows in the borough. The only application received lately had been one six weeks ago by Dr Pickerill, and this had been agreed to. The last man to grazo' cattle there was Mr M'Cluskey. In reply to Mr Duthie, both Messrs Rots and Barclay said they did not remember ever having refused permission to any man lo graze. Tho charge had been 6d a week for a cow and perhaps 9d tor a horse. Mr M'Cluskey said he had had horses there for three months, and Mr Barclay said lie would charge him nothing. Further, in regard to football, the public visited the ground freely without payment. Also, there was never any charge for the regatta. lie had never heard ot anyono being refused permission to grazo any cows on Ihe laud. He eonsidcv «l it had been a great convenience to residents, and he thought all who desired could have obtained tlw use of the ground that ho had. Mr Gow: Do you think Mr Barclay and Mr Ross ever made anything out of it? Mr M'Cluskey: I don't think they have m;ulo inythiiig out of it. Mr Platts aaked whether the lessees had ever paid anything for fencing. Mr Ross answered that the cost had been about £100. The original fencing cost a considerable amount, and then the board reclaimed a iagoon which they fenced and did not claim for, as it was not mentioned in the lease. They had themselves paid the cost of the fencing. Mr Duthie asked if any previous inquiry had been held. Mr Ross, in reply, said that about three years ago Mr Belchei had asked a series of questions relative to this matter, and received all tho papers in connection therewith. All ihe members of the board wv'io then conversant with tho position. The Chairman : Were any proposals ever made as to culling up the endowment? Mr Ross: Some years ago 1 moved that, this bo done, and plans were prepared' by Mr Mason. These showed that after allowing for tho land held by tho railway now, that required in tho futuiv, that required for the streets, and the four acres for, a recreation reserve, there would he but three acres and a-t;uarler left for leasing purposes. As the cost of tho streets would ba some £3000, it was decided not to proceed with the proposal. The Cha.'rnraii mentioned that in October, 1303, a letter had been received from the clerk of (die West Harbour Council conveying a resolution of that body as to the desirability of the land being submitted to public competition. The Secretary (Mr Mason) said this letter had been considered by the board, and Ihe Mayor of West Harbour had attended the meeting. Tho secretary had produced a plan showing that, allowing for roads, etc., only two acres and a-quarter were left to deal with. As to rates and taxes, the land was a reclamation area, and could not be treated as an endowment until it was a means of revenue to the board. It was not up lo reclamation level yel, and that, meant that it was not revenue-producing.- As a reclamation area it did not become rateable. It was not, subject to rates in law. The Chairman said lie took it that the order of reference had been complied with, and ho did not know there was any other evidence they could ask for. Having gone through the order of reference he invited someone to move a motion. FINDING OF THF. COMMITTEE. Mr Gow then moved a resolution commejicirig that 'apart from tho question of the wisdom of the action of the board in 1899 in granting Messrs Barclay and Ross leases of the Ravensbourn.- endowment." etc., but tliis was modified, as will bo seen later on. Speaking to the motion, Mr Gow (aid he was not at all satisfied that it wns a wise tiling for tho board in 1899 to enter upon the arrnnjremcnt it did. He would never agree lo 'i-s .board entering upon a similar arrangement, but he apprehended that they were not expressing any opinion in their deliverance upon this particular matter ris to the wisdom then shown. The fact was that the lease was granted, and what they, were concerned with was the question of whether tho loaso had been properly .complied with. The lease did not contain clauses which it-' was cxpcctod it would contain, binding tho lessees lo do certain filings. It was left open, while in the application made there were certain restrictions and conditions, making it apparent that they intended to hold the land for the benefit of the Ravcnsbourne people. It was apparent from (lie evidence they had had that Messrs Ross and Barclay had been perfectly honest in t'lio use of the land by their mainly using it for tho recreation of the Ravensbourno® people. It was quite true that they bad used it for grazing, but that was contemplated. . No one had ■been refused grazing righ.'s.andhe thought the committee was quite justified in saying what was contained in the motion, but he was not quite sure it was justifiod in saying, more. There had been perfect, honesty on tile part of Messrs Ross and Barclay, however unwise the action of tho bo.-ird might have been in 1899. Mr Dut-'ne said lie did not think the board eo'ild hive used thi> land to better advantage than it did at that time. -Until the railway came over ■ the land it was practically worthlres. , 110 had a . motion prepared, which read—"That this committee, after reading the corr"spondence> regarding the Raven<bourirc endowiiients, and hearing the evidence of representatives of the different, athletic clubs, is satisfied that the lessees have carried out the leaso in strict, accordance with tho terms oii which it was granted. Tho commitfee is further of opinion that until such time as the Railway Department lias-complete] the improvement and straightened the iiite it was to tho int-erest-of tho board that a lease wa6 eranted to Messrs Birolay and Ross." The insinuation was that the board had handed over-to two members of the board a valuable endowment, and had lost a considerable sjim of money over it. ,He did not think it was then worth a penny piece. Mr Gow: .We are only dealing with the bona fides of Mi- Barclay and Mr Ross. The. Chairman: When they took the lease they relieved the board of fencing the land. After 60me further discussion, Mr Gow amended his original motion to read as follows —" That this committee is of opinion, after considering tho documents submitted and hearing tho evidence brought before it, in regard to the lease of the Ravenshourne endowments to Messrs Barclay and Ross, that those gentlemen have complied on all points with- the terms of the lease, and, moreover, in dealing with the land, they have complied with the conditions set forth in their application of 21st May, 1899, and that their claim to have been first concerned to secure a convenient recreation ground for tho Ravcnsbournj residents is borne out by tho manner in which (hey have dealt with the land during their occupancy." Mr Watson seconded the motion, which was canjed unanimously, and the inquiry .closed with a vote of thanks to the chair.