THE POLICE COMMISSION

Otago Daily Times, Issue 14579, 19 July 1909, Page 4 (Supplement)

THE POLICE COMMISSION

COMMISSIONER DINNIE'S EVIDENCE. Sixth Day.—Satchday. The Police Commission sat again on Saturday morning. SERGEANT WILLIS'S EVIDENCE. The first witness called was Sergeant Willis, stationed at Dunedin, who safd he joined the force in 1893, and was promoted to sergeant in 1907. He had been rather over two years in Dunedin. The married men, ho said, objected to having to go between their homes and the Police Station in uniform. They considered it degrading, as indicating that they could not be trusted_ to behave themselves going on and oil duty in plain clothes. The' men also considered that there should be move •Sunday leave. The district clerks' conditions of work practically mean thai they worked three iih.hu.lh less in the year than the ordinary constable, and received Is a day extra pay. In regard to tho promotion of these district, clerks, he thought it was very unfair ,that men who. as constables, wore junior to him could, if they got tired of office, work and wished to go out on the street, become senior to him if they did so. Witness said that in some cases the i district clerk dropped the title of constable and called himself " Mr," telling people that he was tho "secretary" down at the station.-jl.aughtcr.) There was anI other complaint in regard to the attendance at court of tho men who had been on night duty. They left," their beats at 5 a.m., and j it. was generally about 6 a.m. before they j got to sleep. There was a parade al 9.45 j a.m., and the court sat at 10 a.m. If a | man had a ca.se in the court he got very ] little sleep, and he got no allowance for all 1 this. It broke a man's rest and interfered j with his general health. Witness pointed j out, that a man was allowed "rime off" in t Victoria. A man might have 'a by-law j case which was not called on until late in ! the day, and the constable might lose most of the day waiting about. lie had to be on duty again at 9 p.m. It was not the rule for a man to get time oil' unless, perhaps, ho had been at court all day, when he might be, allowed oil' an hour or two earlier in the morning. Tho same applied to men who were, on duty from 5 to 9 o'clock in tho morning. A married man practically had only three-quarters of an hour after coming oil' duty to go home, get his .breakfast, return to the station for parade before attending court. Witness also considered that policemen should get railway concessions, seeing that, their holiday leave generally came at times when the holiday excursion rates wero not in operation. Witness also drew attention to tho relative positions of the travelling allowances to sergeants and detectives. Tlio sergeant got 6s a day, and tho detective Bs. In the case of a sargcant in charge of a country station with a detective attached, the sergeant's rate of pay was 12s a day, iiiid tho detective's 15s a day. Thus the inan in charge was paid, at a lower'rale titan the man under him, and should the two be travelling together on the railways the detective wont first class and the sergeant, who was over him. went second class. Witness thought that the rate of policemen's pay should be raised, as the present rate was not sufficient to attract the right class of men. Replying, to Commissioner Dinnie, witness said he had heard that it was owing to married men going into the single men's rooms to hang up their cloihes that the regulation as to married men wearing titiiform going to and from their homos had been introduced. He was surprised |o hear that there had only been seven or eight applications for positions on the clerical' stuff from the whole force. He thought that these positions were much sought after. Commissioner Dinnie: Do you "know of any case as regards the ' clerical branch where a clerk was sent out and promoted over a uniformed man. Witness: I know of no case. Sergeant Ilogun (mentioned by Detective Herbert) was entitled to it, but that is not the case all round. Continuing, witness said he thought tho station-sergeant, when it suited, could give men who attended the court m the morning three or four hours oit Ho thought it could be worked very well. He bad no knowledge of political mlluence having been exercised. At the present time the men were a very sober lot. ■ to thought that a man should not be over 4j years of age before being promoted to (he rank of sergeant. The work was tiding, if he hod his time over again ho did "°' l '"". !: , 110 w <"''d take tho position. Air bishop: Have you any views rcgardJiiS the promotion of tho plain-clothes branch to the uniformed branch'' tll'J'TYi T * th ?}} tl,n J ustico of )<>'°m°tions if t,o qualifications are suitable. Mr Bishop: That is tho fairest view I have got vet To Insjiector O'Brien: Witness had no knowledge of_ a constable who had had to abend court in the morning being refund t'-no of! if he made the application Inspector O'Brien, referring to married man being allowed to come to and go from tM station in plain clothes, said in the pa.-rt the men had gone int-o tho -sim-le mens rooms, there being no fcpi",. rooms nor wardrobe.', and tilings hud been diseiiKed that had better been left alone. MR, DINNIE UNDER EXAMINATION. Commissioner Dinnie said that as there rac-med to be some misconception about his meaning in respect to the .--talement, mado m tho House by Mr Arnold he wished it clearly understood that what he meant was that the statement was not correct, and there was woof to the contrary. Ho wished it understood that he (Mr Dinnie) was here to answer definite charges. He did not suggest that MiArnold mado the statements' knowing that they were incorrect. Mr Arnold was pleased lo accept the Commissioner's apology. Jlr Dinnie in his communication to the Minister said that tho charges were reckless. Now he presumed that tho Commissioner would admit that tho charges he mado-thcy wouid have to see the files of one or two yet—with regard lo tho fighting in the ntroel-s of Wellington wero definite; thai the charge in regard to the man ordered off the beat drunk was definite; that the charge of the man who came to the colony with his wife's sister was definite; that Ihe one iti regard to the person who went away with another man's wife, and that the one in regard to the constable who assaulted his sergeant, in Glasgow were definite. Also the one in regard to tho notorious criminal who came from Australia and joined the force. He presumed all there wore definite statements. Would the Commissioner repeat his statement of yesterday, and say that these-charges were made without foundation or due inquiry? Commissioner Dinnie: What I say in this matter is that I have only Iwo charges, to answer so far as I am concerned. The first charge is in regard to the finger-print expert, and the second is in regard to " no" inquiry having been made in respect to those men who got into trouble. Mr Bishop: He did not say "no" inquiry—insullicicnt inquiry. Commissioner Dinnie: I think you will find from Hansard that he said no inquiry was made. Mr Bishop: I should take it that is insufficient inquiry. I don't (ling Mr Arnold would go the length of saying no inquiry. Mr Arnold: I would certainly not say no inquiry was made. Mr Bishop said that Jlr Dinnie had referred to a matter which he was glad indeed ho had now taken a. different attitude upon. It was a- thng he (Mr Bishop) objected to at, the time, and if it had not been brasher asde lie should probably have spoken more strongly about St. Mr Dinnie referred lo a deliberate falsehood. They must, assume that a member of Parliament from his place in the House would not tell what he knew lo bo a dclheratc falsehood. He (Mr Bishop took exception to the words '-deliberate falsehood" at the time, and ho was now glad to hear Mr Dinuie's explanation of the matter and lo bear that he had wthdrawn anythng n the shape of a " deliberate, falsehood." Mr Arnold: If we are gong to confine our-elves to two questions, I am glad to do so. With regard lo the constable who was dismissed from the Wellington tramways, how was it that the police could not discover, if satisfactory inquiry was made, as to tho rea;on of this man's dismissal, before he was admitted to the I force? There was no difficulty in this I matter, Commissioner Dinnie: I am not aware that he was dismissed from the tramways. Mr Bishop-. Is he in tho service still? Commissioner Dinnie: I believe so. Mr Arnold: You admitted in my ovi- | dcncc-in-chief that you had the photo of the notorious criminal who joined the force. Commissioner Dinnie then read the papers about tip's man, who applied.for an appointment on the 19th of March, 1908. At that time they wero particularly short of candidates. Out of 17 candidates called up only seven accepted. Three of them : did not turn up, so that they had only : four to start the batch which was usually j 12 or 13. Seven more were called up from the list of applicants, and they got six, ! snaking a batch of 10, and one of the 10 resigned, It was necessary to select a I

few candidates not placed on flic list, and the constable in question camo with tho best of recommendations from Australia, lie hud relatives at Petone. and Mr Wilford. M.P.. said that the family was most rcsiicctuhlo. The man was taken on ptobat'ion. and was told that, if tho inquiries nuulc as to his antecedents were nut satisfactory he would he discharged. _ A letter was written to the N.S.W police about him, and the following month his photo w;i-- accidentally noticed as that of a Ne-w Sotith Wales criminal. Ho had been convicted of forgery in Australia, and was at once discharged. The result of the inquiries from the New South Wales police, did not conic to hand until after the man was identified by the photograph. Commissioner-' Dinnie said that those, ■were the circumstances under which this man was taken on. Mr Arnold: The point, however, is that it- is acknowledged that this itwi came to New Zealand and was admitted into the force. Whether the photos in ine- posKiwion of the department are too numerousfor cue ;o be picked out 'is not for me to judge. Tho fact is that lie was accidentally discovered 'Join,? duty on .heat while members of the force were looking at his photo. .Mr Bishop said it was quite dear. Under pressure, bavins to complete a -batch, Com nusionw Dinnie did not complete tho inquiries 't'.fforo the man was Appointed. It was practically an admission of everything that Mr Arnold hud'tsa-id. Mr Arnold next referred to the statement 'that in .March, 1900, it -was almost impossible to get suitable men to enter tho force. It. was an extraordinary tiling thai in .March. 1903, they could not get. candi-laies, and yet for the 12 month* ended the previous Juno there were 387 candidates. Commissioner Dinnie said that was easily explained. If Mr Arnold looked at ' the number rejected ho would find it greater than might have been expected. | Men frequently found employment _ when waiting, and could not ho got again. Mr Bishop: When do yon commence to mike inquiries? Commissioner Dinnio: Immediately tho application is made. ■Mr Arnold Raid tho fact was that 387 applied and 250 were rejected. Only 137 wa-.? suitable. . Commissioner Dinnie said his impression was that although it was considered desirable to raise the standard- of education a year or two ago, with a view to gettior: bettor men, it- was found that this j barrrd many men who had only passed tho Fourth Standard, and who "would have been I bettor constables. . Mr Bishop asked what was suggested by him as tho means that should bo adopted to enlarge tho scon l ? of choice. Mr Arnold replied that if the pay wero such as it should be, and if tho conditioiw ■wore improved, and this larrikin element that had exisred for the last two or ihrco years were cleaned out, it. 'would lie possible to get plenty of suitablo men in New Zealand, and there was not. the sliarhtesi reason whv the fullest inquiries should not be made in regard to every man. Mr Bishop: Do you think the standard l of education too high? Mr Arnold replied that lie thought tho Fourth .Standard quite sufficient, always presuming that the sergeant or whoever was in charge in th-e training school was permitted to say whether ho considered tho man's all-round education 'was sufficient for performing constable's : duty. Another candidate was mentioned, and j Commissioner Dinnie ashed what Mr Arnold- suggested in that case. Mr Arnold: That this man should not have bean in. the force, and that when an assault was being committed on constables wdio were on duty in Wellington he was amongst tti-3 crowd, urging on tlio civilians ag-vinst his comrades. Comnrisßionw Dinnie: I cannot see that the report proves that at all. He proceeded to read a file showing a minute bv the ComrciWioner to the effect that it seemed that this constable Bid not on tin occasion of the street row nendor the nseist- | anee to tlio ether constables that he rhould | have rendered, and in tho circumstance:;, j and as it appeared that ho was useless as a constable, he had been called' on to resign. Mr Bishop: That is cuffieient, without I going into details. It is an admission of j the main allegation made by Mr Arnold. I _ Commissioner 'Dinnie said' he presumed j it would be sufficient, if he handed in tho ; papers as to other oases in which the fame j suggestion—no inquiry—was mac's. Mir Bislhop: Not siifiirient inquiry. Mr Arnold now sa.vs that he did not 'intend to inwly that no inquiriw were'made. Commissioner Dinnie: That is sufficient for me. Mr Arnold: One of two things is evident— either that no inquiry was made, or else that inquiry was useless. Commission?!- Dinnie: 1 <k> not adroit that. Mr Bishop: Is that not a question for me? Whatever cither cf vou may say on such a Matter will not affect my judgment | when I go through tho payors. ; Commissioner Dinnie said he was glad j to..notice- bv Hansard that Mr Arnold had jfiaid that from the standpoint of ability • and character the force in New Zealand ; was equal to that of any Australasian ; colony. ' Mr Arnold: I believe it is. I said also ! that it was gradually degenerating, and I ! wished to prevent it. ( Commissioner Dinni": Owing to these I men petting into the fores?-Yes, ra<ai of j that class. | Commissioner Dinnie. in order to show j that Hie force bad displayed a High degree | of efficiency, pointed to the percentage of j arrests to offences reported to the police. ■ {i Mr Arnold: It shows that vou have some :' capable officers, such as those sitting, round j this table to-day. and in all probability I the great majority of arrests are made'bv i these men. | Commissioner Dinnie: It shows that there | are a, good many. j Mr Bishop: The efficiency must be judged j by the results. ! Mr Arnold: I believe you have a splenI did force- if you treat it properly. | Commissioner Dinnie: I think it has I received better treatment than it had for | many years. Perhaps it has been too well treated I think that is about it. Mr Arnold: You admit the correctness of the circulars sent out. Commissioner Dinnie: I do. Mr Arnold: In my evidence, when I spoke of the dissatisfaction that existed in the force,_ an undercurrent of unrest, you said: "Well, v.c will s co how many others Will say so." I suppose after tho evidence hero thisweek yoti are satisfied that there is a considerable amount of dissatisfaction? Commissioner Dinnie: I am far from satisfied. Air Arnold: Are you? I consider, vostr Worship, that though I did not expect this evidence in Dunedin—it has come as a, surprise to mo, kuiowiiiff where (he evidence, would come from that would prove all I wanted—the evidence given this week by thy force ha.s proved my general charges. Commissioner Dinnie: I have not admitted all your charges. Mr Arnold: All except the fingcr-prin! expert. Commissioner Dinnie: That is the most serious, Mr Arnold: Yes. as far as you are. coneerncd it is. I have a communication which I am handing to your Worship, and I wish to quota two or 'three lines to Mr Dinnie, so that, if he can, he may make a denial. Every constable and sergeant in Xew Zealand should have absolute' confklencc in the present Minister of Justice and in this commission, and be quite held in coming forward and giving evidence—' aheir safety, of course, being in numbers. It appears on the evidence of another witness—of cmirsj, it is impossible to prove these things—that you, Mr Dinnie, had a Spy in every centre who communicated with you whatever transpired. Now this person says—the letter comes from Wellington, and he is most reliable man: "Conversation re the commission is very guarded, as it is commonly reported that Mr Dinnie has placed a number of spies out to gather all information as to who is going to give evidence against, him." Of course, it is hearsay as "far as this man is concerned, but he knows what he is talking about. 1 would like you to give a. direct, denial, if you can. so that the constables and others in Wellington and elsewhere may have more confidence than thc-y otherwise would have. Mr Bishop: He wants you, Mr Dinnie, to deny it on oath. Commissioner Dinnie: Deny what? He has not put it directly. Mr Arnold: You have heard the -statement I have just read. Is it, or is it not. a fa'ct that since this commission has been set up you have ashed some of your special friends—those in the force call them " pimps." though 1 don't understand the term, of course-to spy, and to report for you what the men arc.doing, and who are likely to give . evidence, and what evidence they are likely to give as against you? Commissioncc Dinnie: T can only say, Mr Arnold, that there i-: not an atom of j foundation for sup-h an allegation. It is one of the most outrageous allegations I have ever heard. It can only have keen made by someone with an object detrimental to me. Mi Arnold: The person who sent that communication believes it to be absolutely

confidential, and did, not know that I would read it. Commissioner Dinnie: If he would suggest who the parlies are Mr Bishop: It i* fair to ask you to give an emphuiiv denial in every place whero ttio commission sits, because the allegation is strongly made, and it is only fair to >uu that you should have the opportunity of denying it. Mr Arnold: Do you deny it? Commissioner Dinnie: Absolutely 1 It is without the slightest, foundation. Mr Arnold: And, as lar as these, men are' concerned, those who wi?li to can coin-? ionvard and spsak boldly? Commissioner Dinnie: 1 went so -far as to send to Dunedin and ask them to tome forward. ill- Arnold: "With regard to leave of absence for your son. Wo applied for leave, and the communication was sent to the Minister? Commissioner Dinnie: His application was sent by me with a. minute thereon. Alt- Arnold: And you swear to us that that application with the minute was not fur six months' leave of absence on full pay; Commissioner Dinnie: I am on my oath. That application submitted is the genuine one, and there was no application submitted suggesting that ho should hitvc full pay. I will prove that by Mr Matthews, Mr M'Gowans secretary, and by Jlr lU'Gowau himself. Jlr Arnold: Do you know that there is a newspaper in New Zealand called Truth? Commissioner Dinnie: Yes, I do. 1 have prosecuted it on many occasions. Mr Arnold: When the leave was granted, did not people in Wellington think it was six months' leave on full pay, and did not Truth have a very cutting' article on it? Commissioner Dinnie: I do know that. Mr Arnold: And you say that in consequence of 'that article, the original application was not withdrawn, and a new one for six mouths' leave and one month's pay only put in? Commissioner Dinnie: Most certainly not. When it appeared 1 went to take advice to to see whether 1 could take action against Truth or not. I took the paper to get Mr Myers's opinion, and I spoke to my Minister on the matter. He did not seem to encourage a prosecution, and 1 let the matter drop. Mr Arnold: Do you think it was wiso to let it drop? Commissioner Dinnie: Well, considering the important position I hold, I think it was. Mr Arnold: Did you know of the belief in the force that you were doing this for your son and reducing another man by seven days' leave on full pay? Commissioner Dinnie: I don't know that that feeling was in force throughout Wellington. Thero are in Wellington one or two dissatisfied men. My belief is that it was through these men that this suggestion was made to Truth, with the object of hurting me. It was done by no one else. There was no one else who could' have known. But it was well known in Wellington that the leave was not on full oay. It wits only done by one or two, with* a view detrimental to inc. Mr Arnold: Of course, I said in my evidence that I would be very pleased to discover that Mr Dinnie could clear tins .matter up. As I said yesterday, it was of no consequence, so far as my general charges were - concerned; but I think ho should know that the whole of the force in Wellington did, and do still, believe that originally the si:; months' leave was granted on full pay. Mr Bishop: If Mr Dinnie now states on oath that this is the only and original application ever made in connection with this leave, then, we must accept that for the time bemg\ Mr Dinnie, is this the original and only application? Commissioner Dinnie: Yes, that is so; and I hope Mr Arnold will bo gentleman , enough to withdraw tho assertion. Mr Bishop: This (application), of course, bears the Minister's initials on it. Commissioner Dinnie: No disputo about that. Mr Arnold: I don't wish to persecute the commissioner. Commissioner Dinnie: 1 think you ought to withdrew. Mr Arnold: Withdraw what? Commissioner Dinnie: The allocation that I did recommend him; that ho o went on leave "with full pay. I think vou should withdraw that statement. It is" only just to me that you should withdraw, seeing what you have soon, and the evidence vou have' got. Mr Arnold: If this had taken place yesterday, your Worship, I might have done so. I can say—l can conscientiously say— Tam not too sure about these files. Your Worship knows that. Mr Bishop pointed out that ho bad looked-carefully through the files, and if the allegations made in connection with this matter were true the files would show pilnna. faoio evidence (hat tho Minister was a party to the withdrawal of the original application and the substitution of this To Mr Arnold; Will you recognise Mr M'Gowan's initials on this. Mr Arnold: Well, that is the belief in the force at the present moment, and I am very pleased that Mr Dinnie has cleared tip the matter. Commissioner Dinnie: But you have not said you are satisfied. Mr Arnold: No. I am not satisfied. Commissioner Dinnie: 1 would like to hoar you say that you are satisfied. I'll bring further proof. Mr Bishop: I cannot allow that to so any further. " WHAT DOES A MINISTER KNOW? Mr Bishop wished to know if Mr Dinnie had anything further to ask. as this would he the last opportunity ho would have in Dunedin. Commissioner Dinnie: There is a little matter about tho promotion of Chief Detective M'Grath. I have cent for the information required. It, appears that I recommended him on the Bth of October last year for promotion, and the application was submitted, to the Cabinet by Mr M'G'owan. Tho delay that occurred was in the Cabinet. That is the point. The promotion was not mads until after tho appointment of the present Minister of Justice. Mr Bishop What are your own views on the question that there is a certain amount of cleavage vin the force—that is to say, on I lie promotion from tho plain clothes branch to the higher offices? . Commissioner Dinnie: 1 certainly agroo with Mr Herbert that if a. man in the Detective Force is fully qualified and fit 'for promotion and is equal in seniority, ho should' have a similar claim to promotion as the man in the uniform branch. Mr Bishop askvtl if such a reason would have disqualified Station-sergeant King from promotion; was it the ease that witness had given him bis personal assurance that he would be promoted? Commissioner Dinnie: I never gave any man such an assurance. lam careful not to make definite promises of that kind. Mr Bishop: What 1 want to bo quite ckar about is how far your powers go. Commissioner Dinnie: 1 make the recommendations; that is all the extent to which my powers go. . Mr Bishop: Can you give me an instance in which promotions were made without your recommendation? Commissioner Dinnie did not think he could. Station-sergeant King: Did you promote Sub-inspector Phair? Commissioner Dinnie: Yes. Mr Bishop: Coming back to Stationsergeant King, your minute shows that ho was not entitled to promotion. Commissioner Dinnie: 1 say there are men eminently fitted to be sergeants, hut not for higher grades; just, as there are constables not lilted to be more than constables. In the case of Station-s;rgeant King there were two men, and oneof them was specially qualified. One of these was Norwood, and the other was Henry. Mr Bishop: What was liis age?—Fiftyseven. ■Suppose a vacancy was to occur now, would you still view this matter in the same light?—lf I had not a better man. 1 always submit my recommendations to 'the Minister, v.'ho approves of lhem. Why, what on earth can a Minister know about whether a man is fit io be a sergeant or not? Do you recommend men for promotion to the Minister in certain order of preference?—lf there is one vacancy I recommend one.man. It is a matter of form. Men are;promoted from street duty to station charges without consulting the Minister. Have your recommendations ever been unset.?-No. Well, it would appear to be rather a farce. How are detectives promoted, and who makes the appointment?—l make the recommendation and the Minister makes the appointment. Mr Bishop asked Inspector O'Brien if lie had any questions to put, seeing that. Mr Dinnie was not going,to give his evidence-in-chief. Inspector O'Brien: In view of Mr Dinnie's silence, sir, I have no questions to ask. Mr Bishop: I don't intend to allow any evidenco to be given by the Commissioner in Wellington except of a. general character. . No evidence will be given by him touching any particular locality or tho officers in a particular locality where ho has had. the opportunity of giving evidence. Commissioner Dinnie: Thero may be a

difficulty owing to the absence of some ol the men. Mr Bishop: Woll, we can't, help that. Inspector O'Brien I understand, sir, uhd appreciate it very much. DANGEROUS GROUND. Chief Detective Herbert said: The Commissioner has said that thero is no ease in which he has refused r man promotion, or has promoted one man over anothor man s head. Commissioner Dinnie: I did not say that. There was a case bei'oro I came to New Zealand. The Chief Detective: 1 am speaking of a man stationed in this district, and who was not recommended. Mr Bishop; L ct us ], ttve hjs name / tlie Chief Detective. Burrows, sir. (To , , "Iv , : . W ' M > recommended by InrThe 0 "le: C,,? ~ lCam ' ots;l ' VtilllkTO ' .There is evidence that he was not; will you behove that?-l want to have ho papers before me. My predecessor < .eft certain papers with m . i foimd t , his opinions were -omul. Do you say that Burrows was promoted m spite of a recommendation bv you to the contrary?— No. " ' Yen remember tho laio Minister of Justice stating in the House nhat detectives would not 'be treated like sergeants; that chief detectives bafore being promoted to h.'sher_ nuila must go out of their own ranks into the uniform branch?-! am not prepared to say that these wore tho exact words used. The Chief Detective: The point I wish io make is this: We believe that the Commissioner was opposed to Mt M'Urath's promotion out q/ the deloetive branch, and that when Mr M'Gowan made this Statement in the House, he made it by arrangement witlt the Commissioner. Mr Bishop: You are now trenching on ground that I believe to bo dangerous. You had hotter put your question in a concrete form to tho Commissioner. Commissioner Dinnie-. 1 remember that a statement was made that diief detectives could only be promoted by going back into uniform first. At least I, believe it was something to that effect. The Cliief Detective: Did you recommend Chief Detective M~'Ctath. for promotion?—l don't, think I did. Had you any intention, prior to that, to recommend chief detectives for subinspectorships?—Oh, yes. Had you recommended any?— No. Were you favourable, prior to this statement of Mr M'Gowan's, of the promotion of chief detectives to sub-inspectorships?— Cartainly. Was the Minister aware that this was your view?—l don't know. Mr Bishop: You do not expect mo to take evidence in regard to private conversations? Tho Chief Detective: Had it not been so wo do net believe that the Minister would have made that statement in tho House. Mr Bishop: Now you have Mr Dinnie's personal denial. The Chief Detective: Yes, sir, I'm'satisiied. " SETTLE DOWN." Stafion-sorgeu-nt King: Do you remember, Mr Dinnie, being in the inspector's ofßoj one day some months after I was appointed? -Yes. I asked you what my duties would beas station-sergeant.. You said you ooukl not very well define them, but did you not say that one of my duties would beto prosecute in the Polico Court?— That .may be so. % ' 1 Do you not remember making any statement about ray chances of future promotion on this occasion?—So, Ido not. Will you deny having u«ed tho words, "You settle down to work as a stationsergeant; it is it stepping-stone to promo'tion and you are nearly the senior on the list."?—l cannot swear one way or the other, but I have no recollection of saying that. Was not Phair senior to Norwood?—l think lie was. What was your reason for promoting Norwood?— Because of the qualifications of the junior man- Phair was not so good a man as Norwood. It appears you have been showing a certain paper to some of my juniors, and on this paper was my name?—l have notgot such a paper. Let us have something more about this paper. Mr Bisbop: It was stated in evidence. -Station-sergeant King: It set forth, I believe, that I was a good sergeant, but hardly tin to the position of sub-insperfor. During the six years I have been in this do you not think my experience riias increased; do you not think it is greater now than it was then?—l do. And do you not think' I am fitted for higher rank?—l never said that. Mr Bishop: No, be did not. He said that some of the junior men were better. Station-sergeant King: You know about me in one or two connections, I believe?— I have known of you in connection with your reports on a certain murder case. Station-sergeant King: Humph! Very important for mo, no doubt. Mr Dinnie considered this sort of thing a waste of tiro?,. Mr Bishop: It is no use labouring the;o matters. These personal matters urc rather ■unpleasant.. Lot it rest at that. Inspector O'Brien, questioned by Stationsergeant King,, raid: I was present at the interview that look place between Mr Dinnie and Station-sergeant King, but could not offer to repeat verbatim what pasted between them. 1 know Stationsergeant King made some representation! to Mr Dinnie in regard to losses incurred by his haying come from Oama.ru to Dunedin. Tho Commissioner said to him, " Settle down to your work," and used some words from which it might have been clearly inferred that future sub-inspec-tors were to bo marfe from the office ol statioiKsorgeant. Station-sergeant King: Did he make no remark as to my ohance for promotion? Mr Bishop: If Inspector O'Brien has no very clear remembrance of the exact worth which passed, it might bo rather dangerous to include this as evidence. Inspector O'Brien: So far as I can remember there was no actual encouragement given. The Commissioner mr.do no disparaging remoirks, but no promise was made as far as I remember. Station-sergeant King then said he would mention that a statement made by him on the previous day did not convey tho meaning ho intended. . What ho had wished to convey in respect, to eradicates for tho polico getting cart incites from schcol teachers was that certificates obtained in that way could not be regarded as satisfactory. He had said, or rather be had been reported to have said, that he could get a civil sendee certificate if lie wished. Mr Bishop: That is what you said. Station-sergeant King said bo had not ■ meant his words to bear that moaning. Ho had no wish to east reflections on any of the school teachers. Mi Bishop: People' often say things they do not wish to ho taken at their precise meaning. I sometimes do myself. Wo will take it then that you mean in general terms that these certificates can fe obtained. The commission then adjourned till 10.15 this morning, Mr Bishop expressing a wish that the sub-inspector and all sergeants available might be present,