THE MINISTER OF LANDS

Otago Daily Times, Issue 14184, 9 April 1908, Page 2

THE MINISTER OF LANDS

DEPUTATION OF DAIRYMEN, THE PROPOSED REGULATIONS, Tho Hon. Jlr M'Nab (Minister of Agrifculturo), who arrived in Duncdin by tho pecond express from the north on Tuesday, received at tho Palaco Hotel a deputation, of 'dairymen, consisting of Messrs D. 'I. Roy (president of tho Dairymen's Association), W. L. Butler (secretary), \V. J. Smaill, T. Slmle, M. Prvde, J. Mouat, J. Mathcson, D. M'Curdv, W. Barr, A. Moynihan (chairman of directors of the r;, aieri and Peninsula Company), Mr A. M'Farlano (director of tho Taieri and Peninsula Company). Mr J. L. nlcls (Chief Stock Inspector for Otago), Mr D. Hcid, M.F., and Mr J. E. Arnold, M.P., w'er also present. Mr D. Reid, M.P., introduced the deputation, and stated that tho Jubject they 'desired to bring under the Minister's notice was with regard to the regulations proposed to be issued under the Dairying Act. Tlio dairymen wero anxious 1o know how they would be affected under tho regulations, and they desired to place •certain views tieforo tho Minister before the regulations wero gazetted. The "was of great importance to the Taieri and other districts around Dunedin. Mr Roy- said that his association has approached 1 the Agricultural Departaiiout with a request' to bo allowed tQ peruao a. copy of the proposed regulations before they wero finally gazetted. That, request had not been granted, but they had been referred to tho old regulations, and asked to state "what faults were found with them, in order that the representations might be given effect to. 110 wished to know whether tho Minister was in a, position to tell them what alterations were to be made, or to givo them an inkling -as to .what- the regulations wero going to embrace. Mr M'Nab: You had better go on'with iyour objections to' the old regulations, Mr Roy then made tho following statement on behalf of tho Dairymen's Association:—

The question arises, Is the increased cost fcfiinspection, restriction, and regulation warTanted to' an increase in quality, or tho security given to tho consumer that, the article produced is more wholesome, that the conditions under which it is produced, tho care bestowed upon it until delivcty, end method of delivery are more likely to conserve the best iniereSts-oi-the consumer? Pro■duccrs do not hesitate to admit that as a ■wholo 4he industry has been improved and biought to a more uniform- condition by Teguliition and inspection, since regulations were first issued in 1901. Prior to that itime, many dairies were ran on mo3t careiul •• and sanitary lines, and in thefee tho have not materially altered the anothods or the quality o£ the product. On :the other hand, there were dairies which were a constant source of danger to the public. Most of these objectionable dairies have either been closed or brought into line, and now there are fcn» licensed dairies from ;whichi one may not; use the milk with a certain senso of security. So far, inspection has benefited tho public by the removal of abuse? that did in soma cases exist, and has benefited the dairymen who found difficulty in supplying a good wholesome article at a price that would compete •with others whose careless and dirty methods enabled them to place' an inferior aiticlo on tho market at a lower price. Cheapness Eeems to be the main question with a large section of consumers. Now things have ■ changed to a great extent, and tho man who offers milk at a price lower than that goner-' ally ruling, is rightly loakedi upon with a certain auiount of suspicion. Thus far it is admitted by dairyman that the regulations have not pressed unduly hard on any, having been administered by tho officers of tho department in a manner leaving little cause for complaint. That there ato faults and flaws in the present system is generally admitted, and now that their scope to be extended to include all milk protection, whether for consumption as milk or' for manufacturing purposes, the time is opportune far revising and amending any anworkible clauses. Such revision will no welcomed by dairymen so long as the main principles of tho regulations are not altered necessitating fresh expense to producers in the -way of undoing what has already been done in. compliance with present regulations. Wo set of regulations can- be made to apply fairly and successfully to. both North and South Islands, where conditions are entirely different, necessitating entirely different methods of working a. dairy farm. It would appear necessary to provide for this in the new regulations by adopting special clauses to apply to tho north or south, as circumstances may require. With regard to tho cooling of milk, if this is to bo insisted upon some uniform method should bo adopted, as if it is bftto tho inspectors diß-, cretion tho change of an inspector might mean the chaago of method in a district. That the water-cooler is the best medium ior cooling is genorally admitted, but there are farms upon whioh water for this purposo is not easily obtained, and the regulations would hajro to 1» varied in csvses of shortage. In the south, the severity of the winter weather makes it imperative that tlio shedding should foe as compact as possible to allow of a cetrain degree of comfort for those engaged in -the milking and /tending of cattle. In order to secure this di is nccessaiy that attached to the byro thero should bo the feed! shed and cooling shed, all so situated' as to be reaohed without exposure to tho -weather. It must here ibo borne in mind that for six months of tho. year on dairy tons supplying towns !the jnilking is dono in lamp-light. : Any regulation making it necessary that these ■buildings be farther xemosed would inflict ta. decided hardship on these connected with .am industry that cannot boast of much comfort in operation. Tho association is of opinion that the grot principle to be borne an mind in revising regulations should be rto so simplify them that compliance with them will become the ordinary Toutino of. 4he farm- worlc. This can only b» attained !by studiously avoiding regulations that are cumbersome, unworkable, amd: that while entailing additional labour are not oa'culated to improve tho article produced. In tho present regulations the\ussociaiioii would suggest that where calculation of license is deemed necessary, the chief of the local ■Stock Department should oonfer with an exjpert appointed by tho defaulting dairyimn, iFive hundred feet of air space is ample. Where more air is desirable it should be obtained by additional ventilation. Material of floors should be definitely specified, and not left to tho inspector. Lime-wnskin^ every three months ia unnecessary, has neveribeen enforced, and; should take place twice yearly. Tho removal of manure immediately Before milking in sheds where cows are thoused over night is impossible, and vary undesirable. The contradiction between clause 8, sub-clause (f), and clause 2i should ibo amended. When the food or water supply is considered unfit for use or insufficient, tho chief of local Stock Dej»rtment should confer with an expert applied by defaulting fanner.' Clause 10, ie rime after use when-cana must be washed, should bo altered. All regulations should ibe worded in definite terms, avoiding the ttorniinsiti/)ii "-to the satisfaction, of the inspector* 1 as much aa possible, as -the association is of opinion, that tho men appointed inspectors are not men of sufficient experience to liavo such arbitrary powers. The marimum penalty attached' to the regulations is excessive, as has been shown by tho heavy fines inflicted for trivia,] breaches. iVVhen cattle ari) condemned by a stock inspector prompt payment of compensation should bo made to 'the owner. Under tho conditions -undor -which much land is held it is impossible for the tenant ta comply with tho regulations re buildings, and at present thero is no legislation whereby itho landlord may bo compelled to supply suitable buildings. They therefore suggested .thai the JEiiistcr should endeavour to have placed on the Statute Book such legislation as would make it compulsory for landowners leasing land for dairying purposes to have erected thereon suitable sufficient 3)nildiugs. to comply with the dairy regular lions, ci to allow full valuation for buildings crccted by tho tenant in compliance v/iih such regulations. With respect to tiie regulations issued by tlio Health Department under tho Pure Food Bill, which they contended contradicted and overlapped tho- dairy regulations, they asked if it is on the recommendation of tho Minister's Department that the standard of milk has been raised, and if that department, as the recognised authority on tho subject in Now Zealand, had been consulted re tho defining of a timo to bo allowed to elapse after calving before a cow's milk is deemed fit and wholesome for human consumption.

Mr Moynihan isaid that tho Taieri and Peninsula. Company looked at tho matter from tho business point of view. It represented 2300 suppliers from tho Hunter River iii the north to tho Moylneux in the Mnitii. Thcro was a difficulty in regard to inspection. Personally, hocouTted inspection,, but inspectors were only human, and they might clash with suppliers. With the company's own inspector, .vlien a person was aggrieved lie could appeal to tho manager, but under tho department's present regulations tho only appeal was to tho Minister, and they would never think of doing that. Tho feeling was that some other tribunal should bo constituted to which an appeal against the decision of the inspector' could be made.

The Hon. Mr M'Nab: What class of evasions against tho regulations would you appeal about?

Mr Moynihan: With regard to building or yards, or anything like that, Thoy understood that, it was to. bo pro-

vidcd that tlio byres and part of the yards would have to be concreted, and that a water supply for flushing was to bo provided. iu many' places these wero practical impossibilities, and if insisted upon would sjmply crush the industry.—(" Hear, hear.") They would like to know what instructions had been sent to the inspectors. It was understood that creamery men had been appointed as inspectors, and he desired (o say (hat whilo a man. might, be a very good creamery manager, it did not at ail necessarily follow that ho would make a good inspector. The article that his company turned out was ample proof that the cordition6 under which tlio dairying was conducted could not be so very bad, and it was therefore only fair that tliev should bo consulted as to the regulations. They had a record of thoir bad suppliers, and were quite willing to give every information to the department, but they did not want any harassing restrictions. .jlr 'A. M<Farla.ne eaid ho had; been a director of the Taieri and Peninsula Company for 19 years. They had been very careful about tlio milk supply.. They could readily find out whether the mill; was pure by boiling it, and when the mdk did not stand the test of boiling the euplicrs were given to understand (hat it could not bo taken from them. With regard to Ihe prohibition against changing the milk in cans during the runs, it was well known that with the night's milk the cans must bo pretty well filled up with cream, and unless the milk was mixed the persons getting the first, milk got ,the cream, whilst the one getting the null; from tlio bottom of the can would get an article of a different quality altogether. Tliev must bo allowed to mix Ihe milk in tlio "calls during the round. Tlio Hon. Mr M'Nab: Is not that a matter that, comes'under tlio public health regulations? , Mr M'Farlane said Hi&f. might be bo, but it was connected with what was being brought'to bear on them just now. Another difficulty milk suppliers _ would labour under, was with regard to their leases. In many instances suppliers who worked leased land had no clause giving thein compensation for improvements. If there were to ho stringent regulations regarding buildings and other improvements, how wero these people to get over that difficulty? It would only be a matter of three or four years when the dairy industry would come to nothing at all. Mr M'Curdy strongly supported the statements made by Mr Roy and Mr -M'Parlane.

Mr Roy also mentioned the disability of dairymen in-the rural portions of boroughs whioh had adopted rating on unimproved values. In such cases the rates on the dairy farms had been quadrupled. The system was ncvev intended to apply to rural land.

The Hon. Mr M'Nab said he was very pleased ,to have the opportunity of meeting tho dairymen, because he could seo that thero was a feeling that the new regulations were going to bo stringent and harassing, and of such a. nature as to placo disabilities on tho industry. Ho eoukl assure them that nothing of the kind was intended, and when tho regulations were issued they would find that a lot of their objections had rio foundation in fact. The subjoc-t had been carefully considered, and he had determined not to send out advance copies of tho regulations, which action might have landed them in interminable discussions owing to the different conditions in tho north and the south. Ho had deemed it better that, where desirod, he should meet the dairymen, and ho had already met the dairymen of Wellington and of Chr»tchurch, and at these meetings a great many of the points brought forward that night had been discussed.' Before going into the details of policy ho wished to say that _ the . Agricultural Department knew nothing about the regulations brought down by the Public Health Department. Ho would, therefore, prefer that questions about the mixing of milk in cans should be assetl of tho Minister responsible for tho regulations in that respect. The definition of pure milk under which tho Agricultural Department worked wa3 found in the aet of 1898. With regard to tho difficulty regarding leases not having clauses giving compensation for improvements, ho was going to submit proposals for legislation for the approval of his colleagues to meet that trouble,. and he could say that the improvement regulations would not be insisted on in the case of leaseholders until tho tenant had the right bv law to call on the landlord to bear his sharo of the cost. With regard to inspection, he might say that the regulations in this direction reallv emanated from the suppliers themselves, Amongst those who had made the strongest -representations for the appointment of an inspector were the men connected with tlio Taicri and Peninsula Company. Tho' underlying policy of the regulations would, for a number of years, be educative rather than punitive, and only when educative means failed did they mlend to punish to any extent at- all. He did not say that offences would not be dealt with from the start, but the polioy proposed was educative rather than punitive, and as proof of that ho might say that he did not oxpeet the new regulation to last more than 12 months. It, was his intention, as a tentative measure, to put in a clause allowing a dairyman who thought he was being harassed by the eccentricities of an individual inspection, to appeal to tlio Chief Stock Inspector for tho Dominion, or to himself as Minister. If that did not •work satisfactorily, he was prepared at the end of 12 months to re-consider that, and every one of tho other proposals. The regulations were* tentative rather than permanent. The department looked to the Dairymen's Association to assist it in every posible way to mako the regulations more workable than -they were. Every matter that, had been brought forward would be very carefully considered, and already ho could soe some alterations that could be made in tho proposed regulations. He was not. going to ask that cow-sh«ls should bo in every ease concreted, but it waa necessary, if conorcte was not used, that some material impervious to water should be laid down, Ha only gave that as an example. There was nothing in the regulations about work being done to the satisfaction of the 'inspector. It would bo for the magistrate to say whether the regulations were complied with or not. II was always to be remembered that tho lowest paid labour was in connection with the dairying industry, and that bad to be taken into account in drafting the regulations. The policy of the department was to pns~/e cleanliness, and not to harass anyone. In reply to a statement by Mr Moyniban,' the Minister said that the inspector would not be so much concerned about the dirtiness of the milk as about the purity of the condition of the utensils, buildings", ami surroundings of tho milk supply. Mr D. Reid, M.P., on behalf of the deputation, tlianked Mr M'Nab for meeting-them, and for the patient manner in which he had listened to and replied to the representations. Mr J. F. Arnold, M.P., said that the proprietors would be delighted if, on his return to Dunedin, Mr M'Nab could seo his. way to pay a visit to some of the dairies, INTERVIEWED AT CHRISTCHUROH.' (Peii United Press Association.) CHRISTCIIURCH, April 7. Interviewed by a Truth reporter this morning,,tho Hon. R. M'Nab made a brief rofc-ronco to tho "bush sickness" among sheep and cattle, which is peculiar to the country between Tauranga and Taupo. Somo time ago, ho said, some preliminary investigations were carried on by Mr Gilruth to determine the nature of the diseaso, as it was unknown to science. Just before leaving Wellington he completed arrangements giving authority to the Veterinary Department to carry out a complete investigation. One of the ablest veterinary surgeons .attached to the department would be detailed by Mr Gilruth for tho work. A piece of land in tho affected area on the iSchvyn Estate was available for the experimental work. The " bush sickness" affccted sheep after they had been about three months on the ground. Thoy begin to indicate weakness. Thoy gradually get weaker and pine away, and ultimately die. Strang© to say, the post mortem rovealed no cause of the wasting process. The treatment of tile disease was comparatively easy, being merely a change from one place to' another outside the affected area. The dopartment hoped to bo able to ascertain the cause of the ailment when they got control of the disease.

Tho Minister slated that the Land Purchase Board was now inspecting various estates in Otago and Canterbury. The Government was not allowed, under tho new law, to acquire estates during March, owners had that, month in which to raise their values. The board had not sent in its report so far. The South Island properties, especially those recently acquired for settlement, had beon going of? in a very satisfactory way. and the number of applicants had been in excess of those for North Island estate.

In regard to tho request of the National Defence League that delegates should receive free railway passes to t.he confcrenco in Wellington, Mr M'Nab stated that this matter had been referred to him as Minister of Defence. A suggestion had been made that any conco?sion granted should, come as a charge on the Defence Department. Before leaving Welington he had sent a reply that the department was unable to pav the railway, expenses of delegates, even if

they wore sworn in members of tho Defence Foroe. Tlio department could only pay thoir expenses in certain cases, such as goipg t<l or coming from thoir duty and attendance at some of tlio rifle meetings. In these circumstances ho could not use the defence funds to jiay tho railway fares of civilians. In conversation with a Truth reporter this morning, tho Hon. R. M'Nab said that volume I of tho Government historical records, which was delayed on account of the index/being destroyed in tho fire in Parliament Buildings, had been finished. Tho whole book is now printed, the last sheet, the index and the preface and the title page are all revised, and ho had boon promised on his return after Easter lo be put in possession of tho first lot of bound volumes. 11l regard to the second edition of his own work, "Muriluku," lie thought it would come out in Juno of next voar. Tl*r> work on it v done in spare lialf hours, and ho did not get many of them out of a day. The second edition would extend over tho wholo of the South Island. The first edition went off very well, all tho copies of it having been purchased. There was, he said, a comparative rush on early history works just now. Dr Hocken's book on tho lifo of the Rev. 8. Marsden, tho first New Zealand missionary, was now in the printers hands, and it would bo a c&ssio work. There was also a bibliography from the doctor's pen which was .uow in typo in Wellington, FUTURE MOVEMENTS. (Per United Peess Association.) : CHUISTCHURCH, April 7. ' The Hon. Mr M'Nab intends to be in Christehureh again on Good -Friday, and will bo present at the Kastor Volunteer manosuvres in Canterbury. He will then return to Wellington, and will go up the Maiii Trunk lino in the North Island. Ho is accompanied on his trip to Central Otago by Mr G. Laurenson, M.P., who left Christchurch with him to day.