GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 13697, 13 September 1906, Page 7

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 12. The Council met- at 2.30 p.m. A QUESTION.

Replying to a 'question tabled bv the Hon. Mr Eeeliau, tho Hon. A., PITT Mated thai, wiih regurd to providing equirato institutions for imbeciles and epileptics now confined in mental hospitals, (hero was such a separate institution at Richmond ami another at Wanganui. Tito Government, however, was considering a scheme for the extension of llie principle. NATIVE LANDS. fho Hon. Mr ORMOND moved for a ™urn .of blocks of 1000 acres and over of Native, waste lands in tho colonv, so as lo enable proper consideration to lin given to tho measure promised by the Government- for dealing wilh such'lands, the return to set out what blocks are unoccupied and waste.—Carried. IN COMMITTEE. The Town Districts Bill was committed, lhe Hon, Mr SMITIf moved a new clause providing that a town board may, in anticipation of iis current revenue, borrow from a bank by way of overdraft! tho amount so borrowed not to exceed tlio previous year's income.—Tho was added. The bill was reported as added, 10. In Committee on tho Firearms Act, the Hon, Mr GEORGE moved lo make tlio ago limit for tho purchase of firearms or ammunition 15 years, instead of 16 as provided.—Agreed to. The provision making it illegal for a youth to carry firearms and ammunition was amended on tho motion of the Hon. Mr RIGG by eliminating the words ''and ammunition." Tho Hon. Mr CEORGE endeavoured to have tho subsection imposing imprisonment for non-payment of a Hue si ruck out, but was defeated by 12 to 7. , TJio hi" was reported wilh amendments, "lie Council adjourned at 3.50.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 12. The Houso met at 2.30 p.m. NOTICES. Mr MASSEY gave notice of motion for tho production of tho names of tho owners of properties of over £50,000 unimproved value. Hon. Mr CARROLL gave notice of motion to appoint a committoo to consider tho Stamp Act Amendment Bill. . STOCK COMMITTEE. Mr HOGG, the newly-appointed chairman of tho Stock Committee, referred oulogistieally to tho services, oxtendinpover many years, of his predecessor, Mr Lawry, who had resigned. QUESTIONS. Two batchcs of answers (to the questions of the past fortnight) wcro answered' on supplementary order papers. Tho main answers to the principal questions wore as follow:— ,

Tho supposition that a faster mail service between Liverpool and Now Zealand is possible via Tehuantcpeo than by way °f San Francisco is not. supported by facts. Iho question of anti-trust legislation is engaging tbo attention of tho Government. As to the railway men who went out on strike in 1890, and their request to have tho time they served in the railway service previous to the striko count for superannuation purposes, tlio Minister regrets that it is not possible to make tin arrangement such as that suggested. In the first place, it would bo inequitable in its bearing upon tlio staff generally, inasmuch as it would givo tho men referred to an advantago over hundreds of other men who have had their services doterininc'd at various times for different reawns, and having re-ontered the servico subsequently lost tho benefit of their former timo for superannuation. Tho fundamental principle of the Railwa.v Superannuation Fund was continuous service, and continuous service formed the basis on which the contributions and benefits wcro calculated. In ro Mr Massey's proposal to have road metal carried free on tlio railways, road metal for tho use of local bodies waA already carried at a rate which was practically nominal—i.e., Half-class "Q" rate, with a minimum of Is 9d per ton. This minimum rate oporaled for distances up to 27 miles, and was unromnnerative lo tho Railway Department. The concession of half ,rate was mado to local bodies in 1895, and had been largely availed of throughout tne co'.ouy. It was quite impossible" to further reduce the rates.

The question of getting phonographic records of Maori songs, ctc., is being considered.

A Marconi wireless telegraph installation would cast £11.000 and involve an annual expenditure of £2000.

The Government will bo glad to negotiate with Capo Colony for an exchange of historical matter.

Tho substitution of fortnightly for monthly payments to the civil service would bo tco costly.

It is not intended to introduce a Referendum Bill this session.

Every effort has been mado to induce tho Scottish Society in Ohristchureh to alter tho dates of its fixtures, but so far without avail,

In the matter of the voucher wrapper brought, up by Mr Fisher, " the wraoper is nothing moro than a used envelope from the returning officer's waste-paper basket, which the writer of the article in the Napier Daily Telegraph had confounded with tho wrapper of the paroel of used ballot papers of tho whole electorate which tho returning officer forwarded to tho clerk of tho House of Representatives, as directed by section 143 of tho Electoral Act. It has evidently not been observed by tho lion, member that tho Electoral Act of lflfit year altered the procedure of dealing with tho ballot- papers, and placed the onus of counting the ballot papers and tho votes upon the returning officer instead of accepting the results from tlio deputies as formerly."

With respect to the New 'Zealand policyholders of the Equitable L'ifo Assuraneo Society of Ilia United States, the Public Trustee holds securities to tho value of £50,000 on account of the above society. That deposit is hold in trust by him, firstly to secure policy-holders whose policies are registered with him under the provisions of "The Life Assurance Companies Act, 1873," and secondly, subject to tho foregoing, for the benefit of the policy-holders, pari passu, of the society. The provision made in the act of 1873 for tho registration of policies was repealed by act, November 17, 1F85; go that tho registered policies arc a continually diminishing number, and will disappear entirely in course of time. This is all the information tho Government can supply with regard to the question. It is added that- it would be undesirable to give tho above policy-holders policies in tho Government office except in tho ordinary way. Whero memliers of the Railway Department invent or complete any contrivance entirely at their own expense they are pe.rmiltd to patent the same without restriction; but where tho invention is worked out at the expense of tho department tlTe approval of the general manager is required to bo obtained before any patent is applied for. Mcmbors of the service are expected to advieo the department of any improvments which suggest themselves whilst in the discharge of their official duties. 'Every such suggestion is considered and dealt with entirely on its merits, and members are dealt, with accordingly. It rarely happens that the suggestions are of | any practical value, and it is not possible to lay down a hard and fast rule in the matter of reward.

It is not desirable to ta!;o any action in the matter of representation until the Kelirescntatioii Commissioners consider the rcl»rt which Ims been made to them in the usual way (as prescribed by Jaw) by the Registrar-general. Tim afternoon was devoted io the incidental complaints. Tho House adjourned for dinner at 5.30.

EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 2.30. CARD BALLO'i. Sir W. STEWARD moved the second reading pf the Ballot Card Bill, explaining the details, which have been already published. Ho claimed that informal votes and mistakes in voting would be impossible under the measure, and the final counting of votes would be much expedited. Tlio bill wan read a second time 011 the voices. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL REFORM. Sir W. STEWARD moved the second reading of the Legislative Council Election Bill. He declared that, aa ending the Council was for certain reasons impossible, lie would ask the House to accept his proposal to mend it._ In 1904- he had obtained the second reading for a bill for mending the Council by placing the election of its members in the hands of tho House of Representative,?. That bill was thrown out at tlie third-reading stage, by the vote of the Ministry of the day. During tho discussion a proposal had beeii lost by a majority of ono for making the General Assembly the electoral oollcgo. This principle had been

put forward in a "bill by the late Sir P Whiteker in 1888. In 1905 lie (Sir W. Steward), taking tho hint of the above division, had brought forward his bill on these hncf, and obtained the second reading by W to 24. Messrs M'N'db anil Fow!ds voting with ilio majority. He claimed their votes on the present occasion. lie also claimed the Premier's, on the strength of a past speech of the lion. gentleman's. The nrcsent strength of the Coilneil >vii> 34. ~Hy Novctnbo.r next fix members would doiiai-t by effluxion of tunc, and liy *7uue of no.vr year one more would retire* from I he same cause... in .Tuile next tho strength nf the Council would fall nutoniatically lo 17, Of these, 10 would be life members, and th« rest would retire by effluxion of time by 1909 ami 1910. The timo was therefore opportune for undertaking the alteration he propose:!.

c , * Ir did not sco the fteofcssity fc Chamber. Ho ino not think tho Legislative Colmfril carried out- the trill of the people. Ho would support tho second reading. Tho Hon, Sir J. CI. WARD complimented tho mover on his iobdoratiori uinl persist* be remembered riftht, tlio speech of his to which the mover had referred v directed against a proposal for the abol: tion of thq Uj)por House. For his ov part he could not remember. in the conn of a long experience, that tho Council.' over opposed tho will of tho people. \Vcre this measuro carried thero would ho u long c ?" rsck unsettling agitation nml a great (hfiiculty of obtaining the royal assent. The Council wag tho only cheek on hasty |egis» latrou, and some cheek was decidedly necessary. _ Tho measure dealing with 'if* constitution, which had passed the Lower House, had been thrown out by the Council, and public opinion luul chained about that measure. Tlio elect ite system had proved ilisa-slroua wherever tried in connection with this Second Chamber. 110 was astonished at tho protest of the membe:' for Waiinato against tho members of the Government of tho day giving their votes in any direction thoy liked; the fact, of course, being that they had the risjht-to do so without being subjected to tho dictaiioii of over/ lnonibov who happened to hold Ptrong vie\v3 oh any particular question, Ho urged that tho system of nominating tho members of the Second Chamber would always lntvo the support of public opinion so long as good appointments were made. Mr Jfeey kid urged tlio application. of pomo modification of the flare system. If that proposal taeame law thero would be confusion of voting, and manv y°|cw .w°nld he voting for members of boih Housoa when 'ogically, from the reprosentalive point of view, there ought to lie only ono. However, the wealthier ration? of tlio community would monopolise tho seats which oufflit lo bo-' open to all. In tlio multiplicity of tho diverse oninions on this subject, ho thought the best plan would bo lo leavo the nomination in tho hands of,, tho Government, which had tho right to represent the people. He would add tnar, instead of diversity of opinion, there must ao a proved charge of improper constitutional behaviour, and thero was no toundation for such a charge, virulcnt.lv and frequently as jt had been mit forward, ilus lact would toll when anv chaiw camo to bo asked ior in the" constitutional riuarter. Ho reminded the Houso that there was no case hi which any member of tho Council had acted with dishonour in h:s pnvafo or publio capacity, but even it there voro that, would not be a reason for making a, revolutionary constitutional change. Ho would ropeat that if good appointments weri; inado the Council would go on for years amicably doing good work in conjunction with the representative House, both being free from tiio deadlock which characterised tho systems to which tho.advocates of change desired. In conclusion he would say, "Let well alone." Mr MASSISY approved of tlio improvenie? j lll bill, which would obviato real danger of election by caucus and secure a qualified addition to the electorate. The Premier was content to leave well alone. ', r i ls P iirt ' ms " ot witl ' him. He would voto for the more democratic proposal represented by the bill. Ho was in favour of the bicameral svstem, and ho failed to seo why thero should ho deadlocks here merely because Uiey were known elsewhere. Ho. advocated a modification of the Hare system as likely to abolish lecal influences and to provide tho best class of men. He denied that poor men would lie excluded under it. He was glad to seo this bill, because ho feared tho Government would reinforce the Council with a number of appointments. Ho hoped at all events they would bo good ones. He believed that those who made Jaws for the people should be elected by tho people. He would voto for the second readiiig. Afr BAItCLA? urged that, tho bicameral system bad been a lailuro wherever it had been tried.

Mr MAJOR denounced iho single cham lier system us shattered by lustorical vcrilict;

-Mr FLATMAN complimented the mover on tJio improvement in his bill, and advised him to wait till next year, and bring m a, better one still.

Mr tMALC'iJIxM suggested an electorate bomposcd of members of the Lower House who had btan tree times elected.

Mr f IHHER preferred election by the people with periodical retirement of members, fcriloSviiig tho lines of tho bill introduced by the Hon. Mr Wigram into the Council last year, and rejected by that body. .

Tile Hon. V,\ HALL-JONES found objections to nil the proposals made, and would voto against the bill.

Mr THOMSON said the movoi had given no reason tor the bill. He would voto for tho second reading to show his respect for tlio elective principle, and he would then insist on finding some other form of elections thaii tho very bad ono embodied in the bill.

Mr T. MACKENZIE thought it was entirely a question of the men chosen. He did not. care if it .wassolection or sclectioii so long as the right men were chosen. -Mr HA NAN did not like a Second Chamber, and liked the bill.

Mr ALANDER objected to the nominative system.

The Hon. Mr M'GOWAN urged that outside election would merely duplicate the llouso of Representatives. Sir W. STEWARD replied to the various criticisms. Ho insisted lliat the appointhiolits of recent years could have hecti much better if they had been made by Parliament. Ho claimed that public opinion was greatly excited about this question. If this bill passed he pointed put that- on tho 16th of October the two Houses would, beforo the prorogation of Parliament, have tho privilege of electing 10 members of tho Council.

Tho House divided, and flic second reading was carried by 31 to 24-. •

The following was the division list:—

Airs (iM).—Messrs Aitkcn, Arnold,, Barber, Buiime, Bennct, Bollard, Buddo, Colvin, Ell, Fisher, Flatman, Greenslade, Hanau, Hardy, Herries, Hogan, Jennings, Kirkbride, Laurensen, T. Mackenzie, MacPherson, Malcolm, Marnier; Massey, Ngata, Poland, Pooloi Reid, Rhodes, Sta'.hvortby, Steward, Tanner, Thomson, Witty. Noes (24);— Messrs J. Allen, Barclay, Carroll, Duncan, Field, Fowkls, Graham, Hall, Hall-Jone3, Hogg, Houston, Kidd, Lawry, M'Gowan R. M'Kenzie, M'lioohlan, M'Nab, Mills, Parata, Remington, Ross, Seddon, Ward, Wood. NOXIOUS WEEDS. Mr It. M'KKNZIE moved tlio second reading of the Noxious Weeds Bill. Messrs Field, Witty, Flatman, Euddo, It. M'No.b, and Jennings spoke pointing out, possible amendments Mr R. M'KENZIE replied, expressing his readiness \o accept reasonable suggestions. The hill was read a second time on the voices. Tho House adjourned at 11.10 p.m.