INTERVIEW WITH SIR JOSEPH WARD.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 12600, 2 March 1903, Page 6

INTERVIEW WITH SIR JOSEPH WARD.

A REPLY TO MR W. FRASER'S CRITICISM. A representative of the Otago Daily i | Times interviewed Sir Joseph Ward prior i fo his departure from Dunedin on Feb. 15 in regard to the criticism of Mr W. Fraser, ■ of the finances of the colony. Sir Joseph said: Regarding tho Consolidated Fund, I do not know how Mr Fraser arrived at the conclusion indicated in his interview with your Wellington correspondent, but from the official figures I am tmablo to arrive at a similar result to that indicated in tho statement referred to. For the nine months ending December, 1902, the revenue was £4,369,018, an increase of £157,405 over the same period of the precc-ding year. The expenditure over tile nine months for the same period was £4,822,161, an increase of £147,300 over the same period of the preceding year. The permanent appropriation in 1902 for the same period was £2,269,962, and for 1901 it was £2,147,315, giving an increase in the permanent appro- : priation of £121,647. The annual appro- • priations for the samo period in 1902 were £2,553,199, and for 1901 tlicy were £2,527,546, or an increase of £25,653; so j that in dealing with tho financial position ! of the colony tho two positions of the per- , . manent and the annual appropriations ' , should be nocessarily looked at separately • ; in order to ascertain whether; as a matter . , of general administration, the annual appro- ; priations aro being, figuratively speaking, allowed to • " run away." Considering the ■ many extra services discharged by the coun- ; j try as a whole, I think .it would require j : a veiy pessimistio person to assert that j the - increase of £25,653 was of any-1 thing approaching an alarming nature. I On the contrary, even though the . , expenditure has gone up during the nine j months, it is moro than, counter-balanced ; by tho increases in the revenue to the ex- j tent of some £10,100. There are at the present time being carried 011 economies in different directions which 110 one can assess at their approximately- correct value until the end of tho financial year. It is never, ; excepting for the purposes of comparison, ; a true test of the financial position of tho colony to take even nine months of tho year for the purpose of basing an accurate analytical criticism upon. For instance: j Mr Fraser recognises that when 110 points j out that in the March quarter of 1902 tho j receipts exceeded, expenditure bv £650,000, ' and it is very fair to assume that on tho . present quarter of the current year there ! will be a similar excess in the receipts. Of I ooursp, it is quite certain there will be »j very heavy increase in the expenses during the last quarter of .the year. And now Mr Fraser indicates that without any abnormal causes tho expenditure has gone on increasing for the first nino month? of tho year. But I think, as a matter of fair criticism, he should havo pointed out that the revenue had gone on increasing during tho same period, and that tho increaso in revenue was actually, not approximately, £10,100 ; greater than tho increase of tho expenditure. It is a very difficult argument to i meot that while in a growing country : . such as this is tho revenue is increasing : i it is not satisfactory, that tbr expenditure j {is increasing. Now. as a matter of fact, j it must be apparent to most people that ' it is almost impossible to have an increased i revenue from tho various public services in j the colony, or in any other country, with- ; out having proportionately an increased ex- ; penditure, For instance/ take tho railways j as a case in point: To produce, a larger 1 revenue, necessarily, from tho very nature i of the service requires a larger cxpondii ture.' I should say myself that instead of i ' an increased expenditure fairly looked at: j as not boing satisfactory, so long as there j 1 is a healthy increase of revenue an increase j ' of expenditure should be regarded as satis- i factory and in any case as unavoidable. My opinion is that Hie condition of the revenue I of the colony for tho nine months referred to is not only a splendid result, but should j- inspire confidence in every avenue of trade , and industry, as well as adding to the high ! opinion held of tho productiveness of our ; country by those abroad, whose good opinion i we so much desire to have. There is only one point iai Mr Eraser's . remarks regarding tho Public Works Fund of which I would liko to specmlly state that ho is wrong in hir, assumption. ■ When dealing with the public works expenditure 110 states: "Further, it is quite unlikely that ajiytliimg like the amount voted oarn l)i 6pent oven up to the extended time of appropriation—viz., tho 30th of June next. The reason is only too evident: the Government simply could not get the money." • That is a stato'ment which is quite contrary I to actual fact. ' In conneotion with the ' financed of tho colony, I stated last year in the absence of tho Treasurer from the colony that it was proposed to obtaim a portion of the money in the colony and tho balance in London as hitherto, and that course has been followed by tho Government ever since. It is, of course, the easiest thing in the world for anyone to make an assertive statement 011 assumption and without necessarily a knowledge of tho faots. Tho responsibility of maintaining a strong position financially rightly devolves upon the shoulders of tho Government, and upon their judgment depends the success or othor- . wii<o of the negotiations for the money ie- < quired for tho carrying on of the public : works of the- colony. There aro two positions that had to be kept before the Go- 1 . vornment in dealing, with its finances. The | one was the right time .at which to go oil j the Lcoidon money market for such portion j of the loan money it was decided should be j obtained there, and the other was not to. draw too .much money out of tho ordinary clianniels in tho colony itself. Now, as a matter of fact, more-money than the Go- j vornijient was prepared to tako has been j offered'in the'colony ever eiinoo the colony i

had tho authority fur obtaining money under its loan aots. I havo no doubt wliatevc-r that we could have gono on, and it may surprise Mr Fraser to know that wo havo I accepted by no means tho wholo of the, I money which was offered in tho colony. I I havo ho doubt wo could havo gone 011,' had it as a matter of policy been considered the wisest course to havo followed, without borrowing on the London money lrnrkot at present. Anyono who has the welfare ot the colony at heart must recognise that not only in tho Old County, but in the neighbouring colonies, they have been passing through a time of considerable difficulty in the financial world from causes over which wo had no control in this country; and what the Government has demo; —and rightly eo, in my opinion—lias been ' not to unduly force a .position whioh require'! direful handling amd certainly the best judgment to deal with it. To show that we have not been oblivion') of l.lie surroundings of tho financial world in New Zealand, I may nay that the comparative remits of tho banking returns for the December j quarter, 1902, by comparison with tho same' quarter for 1801, show that the increase in the deposits not beai-Mig interest amount to £922,300, and the deposits bearing interest to £425,400. In order that this mny not be mixed up with the Government deposit:-, I may «iy that these show an in-j crc-asc independently of those I have referred ! to of £345.?,00. I allude (o lhi.s becauso it' i* 0 very important exception, inasmuch aa 1 , it is known that we have been borrowing i for public purposes in the colony for somo months, and it s-liows very clearly to my mind that the' course followed in this rcspert by tho Govornmont has not in any way interfered with local requirements, and that the G ovornment has kept iti> eyrs! zealously on that branch of the financial : world during some months past. I should take it that the result of tho flotation of , (he present loan, whioh there is reason to | believe will be better than the flotation of I tho last loan, shows tho wisdom of the I eourfe followed by the Government iu earryI ing on the affaire of the colony until they believed the right time bad arrived for the j purpose of obtaining in London such pnr- '■ tion of the loan money, as it was decide-' (0 raise there in (his care a million a: • 1 a-nui.rter. I One statement to which we are not un- , accustomed in tho colony—" that the money i . has not been wisely expended "—it: one on | which_there must nccfjjarily be a difference iof opinion. Tn the statement of loan ex- , penditure given by Mr Fraser. 110 refers 1 to the advances (0 settlers, land for set-tle- ! ment, loana to local bodies, and others. I j ■ presume there is bound to be a difference • i of opinion as to the wwlom of a policy that has created the whole of the depart- ! j ments referred to, but I feel little doubt in j ; my mind that if the opinion of the people i of the colony could be obtained as to the : •' continuance or'otherwisc of theso depart- ; I ments which have assisted thousands of ! our settlers '■< different parts of the oolony | itself—as to their continuance or abolition— ' ! that there would be a prononncd majority j in favour of their retention. Naturally some ! , who are opposed to the Government con- j j sider they would be able to expend public ■ i moneys more wisely than llic present nccu- i ' pants of the Treasury benches, and one is i j accustomed from time (0 time to bear them ; give voice in similar sentiments to th^sc ■ expressed by Mr Fraser in this respect, but I it is something to bo ablo to point to (he : fact that, notwithstanding a. great many ; criticisms to the contrary, which have at various times overcasted financial troubles for the colony itself, that our revenue shows' verr large increases indeed, and that tho trade conditions througheut the colony aro gco'l. and that the condition n f fl to colony itself is one for which every \vel!-wi?lier of it; ought to be—quite irrespective of Ins po'i- j lice—thankful in the extreme, particularly j if wo are to judge it by the position of | some of the other self-governing States j whose financial position is, unfortunately > for them, very difficult, indeed. i As to the cost of borrowing referred to bv Mr Fraser. it would be simply beating , the wind to discuss a matter of that kind. ; ■ It must bo obvioiK to everyone that what- . ' ever Government is in power, it would do • . its utmost to get money for the colony on j • the best and most favour/iblo terms possible, ! : and that the ordinary charges imposed by ! the London Stock Exchange rules applies to j this colony, as fo all others (hat require to : obtain borrowed moneys. If ther* wa>s any I suggestion that we paid more for siniilir work than our neighbour. l ) that I would unequivocally contradict. My earnest hope is that the flotation of the present mi'lion and a-quartcr loan will bo 0110 that will . show at all events that the credit of tho ; colonv is unimpaired. There are some j people who say that we should not borrow j at all, but so long as it is considered (o be ; neeesisarv (0 complete some of our rilwavs and open up our country by roads, to make ; advane's to settlers or to purchase estates j ; for settlement and to give financial aid to j . loml bodic. then it is, of course, impos- ! sible (.0 arrive at such a condition a" (h".t which (be alleged non-borrowers desire. ■' What, is to be aimed at in the general dei velopment of the eolotiv, and the opening . up of such portions of it as are not. yet ' opened up. is to do so 111 the meot economi- • cnl way. Tint, nevertheless, fairly vigorous . prosecution' in this direction is nccessary, ; and I think that the people generally throughout the colony recognise this. It. : will be found, in my opinion, at the end of : the next financial year that tho general j results for the whole of tho 12 months of j the finances of the colony will be of tho I most satisfactory kind; that there will be I a very lartre balance of revenne over ex- . penditiiTO is beyond question. Tho general j revenue of Mid colony is stronor, and. in- ; eluding the transfer of some £200,000 to | the Public Works Fund, it will be found that the balance at the end of the year will be greater than (hat estimated by Mr Fraser. In the Railways, Post Office, and . Customs Departments tho results mil he ; found to be a. record. In view of the fact ; to which t-oo much importance cannot- be i attached, that dnriny the pa=t 12 months , there has been nothing which one ccu'd . call of a decidedly abnormal character which i I has assisted to inflate tho revenne other- ! i wise than from a normal growth, it points ; j to that which I personally recoenise as the I case, that our country is generally in a vorv j ; healthy condition. And although we should i | not be carried away into any excess as the j result of this, thero does not appear to be j 1 anything on the liorizen to indicate a reI vcrsal of tho remarkably steady progress | whioh the country is making.'