THE TAIERI ELECTORATE.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 12483, 14 October 1902, Page 2

THE TAIERI ELECTORATE.

MR DONALD REID, JT.TN., AT OUTRAM. Mr D. Reid, jun., who is contesting the Taieri. seat in opposition to the Government, addressed the electors at Outram last night. Mr W. Snow presided, and there were about 100 present.

The Chaimian, in introducing the candidate, said he had known him for many years, and if he wae a " chip of the old block" ho was good enough for them.; — (Applause.) If he was only half as good he would be much hotter than what they had had in • the past.

Mr Reid said', that in. appearing before the Tai-ori electors as a- candidate he felt that it was right and proper that he should make a personal explanation. When their late member, Mr Carnoioss (who was about to be translated to a, higher sphere), announced his retirement he (Mr Reid) was asked by several friends if he would stand for the constituency. He had lived in, the district practically all his life, and had always taken an interest in political matters — more particularly as they affected the agricultural industry. He consented to stand, and that was the reason he appeared as a candidate that night. To many of the eleotors he was known personally, and as ho had always looked oai the Taieri' as his home they had every opportunity of judging whether he was fitted to suitably represent them in Parliament. He did not intend to refer personally to his opponents, but would carry out the contest in an honourable and friendly spirit, as he believed the others would do. He would not reply to any attacks ia the press. °xcept to authorise a denial of any untrue statements that might be made. Never having been in Parliament before, they could take it that he was speaking his candid .convictions upon the questions of the day untrammelled by any party votes or ties. What he proposed to do wae to give his views l on the chief political questions that at present occupied tho public attention. If the principles lie, advooated commended themselves to the electors, then he asked them to return him. He had been asked to say who he intended to support. This was usually the first question asked of a candidate, and he had no objection to stating how he stood in regard to the present Administration. He declined to be a delegate appointed to follow any person. He would not support the present Administration as they stood, and all he could say was that he opposed them in their administration of the country's affairs. He desired to be returned as a representative to use his best judgment in voting upon measures that might come Before Parliament. II he could not go in that capacity, then he would not go at all. —(Applause.) Dealing with labour legislation, Mr Reid said that during the last four Parliaments the Government had passed legislation whioh was arresting the attention of all the older countries, in the world.. These measures were intended to remedy, or, rather, to avoid, the evils that were so apparent in older countries—imore especially in Great Britain, where wealth was so unevenly distributed. This legislation had been humanitarian in the highest degree, but it was still on its trial and would require amendment from time to time to meet circumstances. It has how become the settled policy of the country and must g«t a fair and sympathetic trial. From an economic point of view there was a danger , that this legislation might take from capital more than its share in order to give it to labour. The profits of industry must be divided between labour and capital, and it was necessary that the proportions going to each should not differ much from what they did in foreign countries, for if they did, and if, say, there was a much larger proportion going to labour and a necessarily smaller- proportion going to capital here than elsewhere, then labour would flow in from abroad and local capital would flow out to foreign places. In this way the necessary equilibrium between labour and capital would be destroyed,' and the oapital or wages fund of the colony might lessen seriously, to the great loss and suffering of the labouring classes and those dependent on them, and to the disadvantage of the colony generally. It should be remembered that moneyed capital can move much easier from one place- to another than 'labour. It was to be hoped that wise counsels would prevail among the heads of unions to see that the capital fund upon which they all lived did not decrease. If they acted wisely and recognised that it was only out of the increase of tho -capital fund that increased labour could-be employed, then all would be well; but.if they disregarded whether capital was increasing, and insisted upon increasing, wages, and those who administered the law acted in the same way, irrespective of the interests of capital, then a day ,of disaster must come whioh,.would', take ye.irs to lindo. Legislation could' not curtail the operation of economic laws, and it was only by a prop-er attention to these laws that a country could be prosperous. From tho evidence lately given before a Parliamentary Committee it was quite clear that goods and manufactures that wore formerly made here were beginning to be imported. The evidence showed that, employers finding the cost of production increased and their profits reduced, were importing the goods ready-made rather than make the goods themselves. If the cost of production became too great, then it was certain that manufactures from abroad would come in. This led to the question whether we should be justified in raising the protective tariff .now in existence, and which was, on the average, about 20 per cent, ad valorem, to keep out tfyese goods. The effect of such a policy would be to saddle the country and the agricultural community with more expensive maniifaoturos for the benefit of the labour unions and the organised labour of the cities, to the loss of the producer. H'e thought the policy of a young country like this was to impose a.protective tariff upon the industries that were suitable for our circumstances with the view of supplying ovt own wants and finding employment for oiir own accumulated capital. Woollen mills, boot factories, fruit-preserving, chemical manufactures, etc., had all been established here under such a tariff. For articles that we could not m&nufaoaure or produce, then, the duty should be a Customs tariff designed to bring in as much revenue as possible—that was one that would not dis- : courage the importation of such articles. In a young country where capital was scarce and dear, and natural wealth, upon which capital could be employed was plentiful and cheap it was necessary to protect growing industries from the competition of countries like. Europe and America. We must aim at supplying our own wants where there was any possibility of our doing so, and we muet therefore put a protective duty against the products of countries where capital and labour were much cheaper than with us. Had this not been done hardly any of these industries now in existence could have been started. After detailing the operation of the Land for Settlements Acts and giving the amounts expended on the purchase of estates for settlement, together with the interest and charges thereon, he ?aid that so far almost all the land required'had been offered voluntarily, and there had been no necessity to put the compulsory olauses of the act into force. Probably most of the 107 properties wore encumbered. But if land commenced steadily to rise in value and there were no offers of farms to the Government, then the compulsory clauses would have to be put in force in order to acquire the land wanted for settlement, and there might be friction, more especially as only the bare value of the land was given. Those who did not wish to sell -and those who had, perhaps, bought their land at higher values than those obtaining at the time the land was taken would certainly, consider themselves aggrieved. The principle embodied—namely, that the Government should bo able to acquire land to sup-ply those who we're landless—was sound, though the question of adequate compensation would require to be reconsidered if times change materially. But the law wanted amendment so as to permit the tenant to acquire, the freehold if he should wish to do k>. There was no doubt that the

freeholder who could sell Wβ land with the improvements is the best settler.—(Applause.) He should have a right of purchase upon the most generous terms possible after oarrying out certain conditions of improvement and observing the terms of his lease. This would enable him to make full use of his credit by borrowing unon the land for the purpose of building and improving it. With the right of the State to acquire private lands for settlement purposes recognised, then there would bo no fear of the land ever going into large areas again. It was bettor for the State 'to get any revenue from land by taxation rather than from rent. A State with an army of tenants must sooner or later carry legislation in the way they wanted it, which would certainly be to enable them to acquire* the freehold. So far the acts ' had worked woll and wove a shcmhs, but amendments will be wanted from time to time, as circumstances arise.—(Applause.) Aβ regarded the compulsory taking of land near towns tliore could be no doubt of the necessity of the provisions of the act in this respect.— (Applause.) The principle of old-age pensions had so far proved a success, and the act seemed to have justified its existence and proved a. great blessing to many worthy people, who in the vicissitudes of colonial life had fallen on hard times. Probably additional precautions would require to be taken to prevent the State being defrauded, and if the officers administering the old-age pensions had the co-operation of the local bodies, then the fund would be much move secure against unjust claims. The number of pensioners . in 1900 was 11,235, at a .cost of £17 3s per head; in 19qp.,"12.405, at £17 0s 8d per head; and in 1902, 12,776. at £17 per head. The scheme will want amendment from time to time, and the burdon of it would want careful watching. The act wae a great boon to worthy people who through misfortune or other causes have not been ablo to provide for their old age. Speaking on the licensing laws, he said that the local option system had been in force for nine years, and as it put it within the power of three-fifths of those who vote, provided onehalf of the. eleotors went to the poll, to stop all licenses in the district, it gave each locality full control over its own affairs. Under this act one district abolished licenses, and the law against illicit sale* has been enforced with a good deal of stringency. The system was still on its trial, and if it was successful was bound to extend. It was well recognised that it was impossible to prevent tihe sala of liquor evon in prohibition districts to those who wanted it. It was doubtful whether the fact that liquor was forbidden to be sold did not make those who were 'forbidden more anxious to get it. Probably if Eve had not been forbidden to eat of the particular tree she would never have eaten of it at all. We have gone as.far with legislation in this direction as it is advisable to go at present.—(Applause.) Our present system of education, which dated from 1877, was working satisfactorily and gave each local district the utmost power of managing its own affairs, consistent with uniformity. He would advocate the Bible being read in schools without comment at a certain time of the day. Those children whose parents did mot wish them to attend could remain outside. He considered it right that before opening the duties cf vho day the Deity should be recognised and the Lord's Prayer repeated. Youth was the time when impressions were formed, and the lessons learned then were, remembered in old age. _He would heartily support such an alteration in the la_w as would "permit the Bible being road without comment, and with a time-tflible and conscience* clause. There was probably no subject attracting such universal attention throughout the colony as the present financial position. The colony owed debts abroad as follows: — Public debt, £52,966,447; local bodies' debts, £5,610,800; private debts, (aiboiit £20,000,000;— a total of £78,477,247. The interest in these debts was as follows: — publio debt, £1,992,743; local bodies' debts, £293.736; private debts (say 5 per cent.),.£ 1.000,000; making an annual charge of £3,286,479. This was a large, sum to be found annually by this little colony for its foreign interest account, and the serious matter was whether, we were succeeding in ■keeping- up these payments. The rate of interest upon good freehold , security fell in 1895 from B.per cent, to 5 per cent., a fall of 37 per cent. It was therefore certain that since 1895 much money that was lent here at 8 per cent, was unprofitable to lend at 5 per otmt., and was being recalled by -the Home lenders. So the- colony had not only to meet a drain of 3i millions for interest, 'but a drain of foreign lent money as well. Of course our only source of payment was out of the colony's exports after deducting imports. Unfortunately these showed that the average surplus available to pay this 3£ millions of interests a year wae only a little over 2 1-3 million? o. year. It followed that the colony must be getting behind somewhere. What seems probable wae that the moneys, borrowed by the Government at Home have to «v certain extent been used to pay off part of the private moneys that were due to the Home lender, while the Government took up the loan in New Zealand upon their own, local credit. By doing this the colony lessened its private debt at a high rate of interest (which did not show anywhere in the public records) and increased its public debt at a low rate of interest ; thus putting the colony in a better position to meet its engagements. This position was due to the low prices that our products sold at in London." more particularly our staple export—wool,—which realised over £1,000,000 lees last year than the year before. The public debt oi the colony last year was £52,966.447, cv £65 12s 4d per head. Ever since 1895 it has been steadily rising, the total increase for the period being £9,204,281. Much oi these later loans had been lent out again to settlers or used for State purposes to acquire land for settlement. The money borrowed by the colony was represented by assets in the shape of mortgages from the settlers or for land which has been let upon lease in perpetuity. But the most serious feature of the matter was that we were borrowing and spending larger and larger sums, and the moneys borrowed were being raised at constantly increasing rates of interest. Instead of borrowing upon the London market we are borrowing in colonial markets at high rates of interest. It might possibly be that the Home market wae not a suitable one. for us to borrow in at present. That was only known to those who had to negotiate for loans, and was not a subject that could very well be discussed by responsible officials. One thing seemed certain, and was being more and more recog'nised through all these Australian colonies: that we must eet to work in earnest to retrench. There must be a. complete overhaul of all our public expenditure and a reduction made so far as that was possible* without detriment to the colony. Publio works expenditure must be cut down to reasonable limits. The chief railway lines, such as the Auckland-Wellington and Otago Central, should be completed, so that they might be revenue-producing as early as possible—(applause),—and so that we might get an immediate return from tie large amounts already spent. It became a question whether the light 2ft bin railway now being introduced into iingland could not be used to carry out our branch railway systems. Such a line would only cost about £2500 per mile, and if it would answer the purpose in England, then it should surely be worth our attention in iNew Zealand. Another way in which the Government could help was by securing new foreign markets for our products. The Government had been very remiss in not fixing up the steamer service with South Africa ere this. The conditions of the tender did not admit of local lines tendering, and there did not seem to have been any effort made to accommodate them. Our trade with that extensive market was not, so far developed as it should have been. The financial question was the most important question before the electors at present. The Government must seo to it that we. pulled clown expenditure. We must economise in every possible way, and at the same time decrease the imports into the colony and increase our exports. Only in that way could we pull our finaneinl position right In conclusion, Mr Reid said he would support any measure thu.t would carry out the views ho had put forward, while claiming the right to vote upon each question'according to. its merits. He would bo found in opposition to the present Government not so much on account of the measures they had introduced as upon their administration. The financial affairs of the country required care and caution in their administration, and a better understanding between labour and capital than at present. Ho believed that in opposing the administration as lately carried on he would be conducing to future good government. He would endeavour to place principle and patriotism above party, and trusted that the Parliament to be elected, whether he was in it or not. would contain many members actuated by these sentiments.—(Applause.) In reply to questions, Mr Reid thought members would only be consistent in 'retrenching by beginning on their own honorariums: lie favoured giving the elective Executive a trial; would be in favour of the abolition of the mortgage tax: and would oppose too much centralisation in educational matters. Mr H. V. Fulton, in moving a vote of thanks to Mr Reid for his address, remarked that he had known him for 30 years, and always found him "as straight as a die." He hoped the electors would show their copfifin-ioc in him at the ballot plause.) • The motion was anproved by acclamation, and ,the meeting dispersed.

MR J. J. RAMSAY AT MOSGIEL. Mr J. J. Ramsay, one of the candidates for the representation of the Taieri electorate in the now Parliament addressed his first meeting of the electors in the Volunteer Hall at Mosgiel last night, when there was a very large attendance, many ladies being among the audience. The hall was filled to its utmost capacity, over 100 people having to content themselves with standing room at the back, but the audience was in every way a good pne. and Mr Ro-msay was accorded a fair, attentive, and appreciative hearing.

Mr T. Aitken, Mayor of Mosgiel, occupied the chair, and in introducing the candidate bespoke for him a patient hearing, and asked the audience to hoar all that Mr Ramsay had to say before they passed their judgment upon him—a request that was received with approving applause. Mr Ramsay, who was received with a round of applause, thanked .the Mayor for the kindly introduction he had given him, and also the large audience for attending to hear him. He would endeavour to place his views as fully, fairly, and fearlessly before them as was possible, and he was sure he would receive from a Mosgiel audience the same court-cay and kindness that he had uniformly received from the Mosgiel people since he first came amongst them. It was not his intention to preface his speech with any apology for appearing before thorn as a candidate, for he was sure that whatever differences of opinion some might have with him on political questions of the day, all would agree that tho keen interest,he had taken in public affairs since he was 15 years of age and the 10 or 15 years' apprenticeship he had served on public bodies justified him in coming forward and asking- tho people of Taieri to give him the opportunity of completing that career for which he had been in training for so many years.—(Applause.) They would no doubt want to know at the outset what position he took up towards the Government, and he would be perfectly frnnk and straightforward in the matter. He would begin by telling them that for very many years he had been of opinion that party government was a, national evil—a cancerous growth on the body politic that required removing, and he had resolved that if he ever had the opportunity t'o assist in abolishing it he would do what he could in that direotion. He still held that opinion, but as he grew older, and, he hoped, wiser, he became convinced that ..however desirable the abolition of party government might be, it was not at present within the range of practical politics.—(Applause.) It had often struck him. though he did not put forward the idea seriously or as practicable, that a. colony like ours with a population no bigger than that of one Scotch town, might well entrust its affairs to a- council of 10 or 12 good men and true, and thiis be saved the expense of sending to Wellington 74 men, many of whom. had no other qualification for their position than that they were willing to sink every conviction—if they had obey blindly the crack of the party whip.— (Applause.) If that was the sort of man the Taieri wanted, if they desired a representative who would sink his Individuality, discard his convictions, a.nd become a mere party hack, then he was not the man, for he claimed to have both individuality and backbone. He had made it a rule of his life to assert his manhood, to speak out fearlessly his opinions and stand by his convictions, and had he not believed that the people of Taieo'i wanted a- man of that sort he would not be standing where he stood that night.—(Applause.) To him Liberalism was more than a name; it implied that a man had convictions, and that he would not discard His principles at the bidding of any man. Liberalism implied independence and sincerity, and there was nothing New Zealand politics stood more in need of today'than that sturdy spirit of independence which had made the Motherland the country it was and which used to be our leading characteristic.—(Applause.) They would not now be surprised if he declared himself as a free Liberal, and after what he had just told them there could be no mistaking the sense in which he used the term. He knew that an independent candidate had been dubbed an independent nuisance, and so he was to the party leader, who did not want men with convictions, but mere pawns to be shifted about as he chose. It was. not his (Mr Ramsay's) nature to shuffle. He never in his life sat on a rail on any question. Those of them who had watched his career knew that he spoke straight from the shoulder regardless of consequences if he thought it was his duty to speak. When parties were 'well' dpfined and Liberalism meant Liberalism, where was he? In his humble capacity he was a party man fighting the Liberal battle, and he would be there again to-morrow if the battle had to be fought again.—(Applause.) But there were now no party Jines, and his proper course was, therefore, v/hile declaring himself a Liberal, to reserve that independence which alone could give a representative a position of dignity in the House. Did they mean to tell him, for instance, that they regarded as true Liberals many of the men who had been re-turned on a ticket and who never brought forward an original idea, or added anything to the wisdom or legislation of the colony, but merely voted at the party call, regardless of convictions, if they Bad any? Had they noticed that men who had tried by every means in their power to kill the Ballance legislation and to stamp out Liberalism were now creeping in in wolf's olothing to the Liberal ranks, looking , for the pickings they got in the old fold. He knew such men, whom he had to fight bitterly in the Ballttiice days, who now claimed to be true blue Liberals, and actually dared to tell him—who had sacrificed time, money, and comfort to fight in the Liberal cause when it was not popular to do so —that he was no Liberal, and if those men were Liberals he had to admit; he was not one.—(Applause.)

LIBERAL REVIVAL. Our Liberalism wanted renewing. We wanted a. thorough Liberal revival, for during the past few years we had been drifting from our high id'eals. The Executive had been usurping , the functions of the House, and we had not even had parliamentary government, because parliamentary government implied government of the country through their representatives, freely elected. Could anyone seriously tell him that this had bfien so of Teeent years? It was true that, Taieri had always . elected an independent Liberal, as Mr Carncross's record proved, but it had not been bo in general; and he, for one, objected to the despotism that had been going on.—(Applause.)

THE PEOPLE'S MAN. Many of them were old enough to remember how it used (x> be in olden times. Candidates were freely nominated and freely elected by the people without fear of Government interference, and woe betide the Minister—be he Whig or Tory—who dared to invade a district and dictate to its people. A man had. in those days to work himself up by proving his capacity in subordinate positions. The Provincial Council was the great training ground that gave us James Macandrew, Donald Reid, Robert Stout, and John M'Kenzie, and those men had to.prove their fitness and ability before they da<red to ask the people to eend them to a higher position; whilst the cry was, not the Government candidate, but who was the people's man? Nowadays, however, we had got. so accustomed to have a Government candidate that we forgot that this was cutting at the very root of Liberalism— for Liberalism implied that the people selected their own candidate.—(Applause.) There was a worse phase of the matter, and that was that people actually had' got to look upon it as a right and proper thing .to penalise a district that did not return a Government man by depriving it of it-s fair share of money voted for local purposes. An Opposition candidate was actually told that by a, man the other day, who professed to be a Liberal. Would the electors say such a practice, was Liberal? He knew they would not. *Yet, if th«y wanted an example of how 'it worked out they had only to note the shameful manner in which the CatHn's River railway -had been neglected. He could not believe that the true Liberals who supported John Ballance in his efforts to prevent tho growth of this system would ask him to go to Parliament tied up in such a manner that he could not help perpetuating it.—(Applause.)

WOULD SUPPORT THE (GOVERNMENT WHEN RIGHT. He wished to be perfectly candid with them, and he therefore felt bound to say that whilst he stood as a Liberal candidate, prepared to support every Liberal measure and maintain the Liberal policy, he was not going to Parliament pledged to support the Government right or wrong, and his reason for taking up this attitude was because, owing to the want of backbone of the rank and file of the New Zealand Parliaments of the past few years, the Executive had taken from us our rights in respect to parliamentary government, and the Executive had become a two-men show —for no one could deny that this was so. Ho, for one, would deen it unpatriotic to uphold the keeping in power of some of the present Ministers, for they were not fit for their positions. Now, lie had told them clearly how he stood towards the Government, but he must at once declare that he oould not and would not ally himself with the Opposition, so that there need be no mistake about that, and it was hardly necessary for him to explain why, for ho had all his life been a Liberal, and had nothing in common with the Opposition party. Indeed, ho was of opinion that the best thine t.hafc could hatroen our politics

would bo the- oomploto wiping oub of thfl old Opposition, so that instead of having their ghost—for all that remained was a ghost—standing there to frighten, us, we> might get a healthy form of Liberal Opposition, or, rather, Liboral criticism. When a regenerated Liberal party aroso tiiey would find him in its ranks, for he wa» not egotistical enough to imagine that he could play a lone hand. Until then he supposed he mus6 just give tho Government such support as he could, reserving his independence and right to criticise and vote against what he did not believe in. He hoped he had now made his position perfectly clear; he claimed to be a Liberal in tho true sense of the word' and therefore declined to become a. mere party hack. The. Government would have nothing to fear from him with regard to truly Liberal measures. He would be with them on principle, but ho could not become a mere satellite. That was the only position a roan could take up. It was not now a case of Government versus Opposition, but of Cabinet despotism vereus Parliamentary government. FINANCE. When he sat dowu. to formulate his views, ' knowing they had a right to expect something of the Idind from him, ho found that tho only question now before the country was that of finance. Ho was not going to set himself up as a financial authority, bufc there were some tilings very patent oven to a beginner. What was the policy of the Government with regard to finance? He asked tho audience just to pause and put that question to themselves as he had done. What was the policy? It could be expressed! in one word—" Borrow." Yes, that was the word. Now he would ask his audience to carry their minds back to 1890, the very noonday of Liberalism. What was the Liberal policy then—" No more borrowing," '" economy," " solf-roliance." Those were the great Liberal watchwords to which, the colony of New Zealand responded from Auckland to the Bluff, and that was the policy with which John Ballswice swept the ; polls and wined out the continuous Atkinson Ministry.—(Applause.) • In 1890 tho debb of the colony was 38 millions. It- was now 53 millions, an increase of 15 millions; yet. there was not a man in the colony who was game to get up on a public platform and advocate John Ballance'e 1890 policy. Was it not clear, therefore, that the policy of the Government had landed us in such a position that wo could not stop borrowing until we could find no one willing to lend. They would remember that the country was so sick of borrowing that the present policy had to be gradually and insidiously introduced Why, for a time tho Government did not dare to use,the word "borrow," they called their loan bills " aid to revenue and publio work acts." But by and bye people gob broken in, and began to like the borrowing business until a loan annually became as indispensable the morning dram to the old toper, and now- we had' got to such astage that a mere dram would not suffice it took a whole bottle. Nothing short of a million and three-quarters a- year would • satisfy us. MUST TAPER OF. ' Now, he was. not in a position to say borrowing must cease, but he was decidedly' of. opinion that the time was not for distant when wo must begin' to " taper off." We i could nob stop it suddenly, but wo ought if not to go slowly at least to po steadily like the toper getting off the spree, take if: in smaller doses, and perhaps if the sunply gave out before the appetite was appeased a few close's of " painkiller" might aoc , as a wholesome corrective. Indications were not wanting , that wo could not continue our present headlong borrowing career. Wβhad a borrowing boom on, and. Tike ,all other booms, it must burst some time. They had no do\ibt all noticed how the Acting Premier had the other day refused to 'give the people's representatives any information concerning last year's loan and its cost. Yet the people of the colony sent those members to Parliament to attend to such matters.' Was not that a clear instance of the executive usurping the functions of the House. In 189* we, for the first time,' borrowed monev at 3 per cent., and one.thing the Acting Premier could not deny the other day was that we had borrowed at 4. r)er cent. It was unnecessary for him to toll them what that meant. He had no doubt an excuse would be made for giving 4- per cent, for money borrowed in the.colony, but there was little doubt the real reason would be because the moneylender, who had been having a very good time lending out to us, would not now lend at any cheaper rate. It seemed, however, that as. things were now going the colony could not get on without an annual loan, and they all knew what that meant—the least , check to their ability to pay interest or carry on, '■ piiblic works would spell a big disaster. We were paying annually in interest, mostlv to foreign moneylenders, nearly two millions sterling: that was, we were borrowing eveiy year the amount necessary to pay the interest. It reminded him of the etory of tho little girl when the minister, calling at the house, asked where her father was, replied, " Oh, he's away knockin' doon ' dykes tae_ Wild up slaps," and when asked by the minister to explain what she meant, added, " Weel he's awa borrowin' money tae pay the interest on his mortgage."— (Laughter.) Of course they did not borrpw the. money for that purpose, but what would happen if they did not borrow it? Taxation would have to be increased, and they wotild then, discover how they had been deceiving themselves by pretending that they were only borrowing in aid of revenue when the revenue raised by taxation could be reckoned by thousands, and the borrowing ran into millions. He knew he would be met with the usual answer that the'money had been spent upon reproductive works and making advances to settlers. Well, he had nothing to snv in criticism of the money advanced to settlors, and it amounted to £2,750,000. Land purchases amounted to another £2,750.000, and loans to local bodies £2,000.000, ond, with (he amount for. loans to local bodies, the amount spent on reproductive works was £6,000.000, out of the £15.000.000 borrowed, leaving a balance of £9,000.000 whieji v had been borrowed and otherwise spent. ' But the excuse of reproductive works had oeen made ever since borrowing began, ancl-he was convinced that never in the history of the colony had mpney been more recklessly or unproductively squandered than during the past few years. Instead of being used as it should be, to complete works likelv to prove reproductive, what, did we find, large Bums voted for no-other purpose than to please people in certain districts'.—(Applause.) If theywantect the name of one district he would give it.' He was not going to be mealy-mouthed about this for it was of grave importance, and he would not be a true.Liberal if .he was afraid to voice his opinions.—(Anplause.)They all knew thnt money had been expended on new works simply to commit the colony to further expenditure, whilst a hugesum of borrowed nionev lay idle in the North Island trunk railway—an imnorfant national work— simply because the money that ought to be vised to complete that.line to a paying noint and enable the colony to reap the benefit of the money already expended was frittered away for party purposes. Instead of completing an important line like our own Catlins line, a line that would top thousands upon thousands of acres of the finest timber land in tht* colony, they found the Government squandering the borrowed money in making a railway—the _Ros?-HoM-tika line —down a barren coastline in the Premier's favoured W n s4 country fov the benefit of about 400 people. • Whilst the settlers in Cfitliu's wore left to starve or, simply exist in the forest* there, and encouraged to burn down and waste rome of., the finest timber in the colony, timber that would be a most valuable asset were the railway pushed on, they found the Government spending money in starting 'a new line from Oremiki to the Waiau. Let any of them go a<? ho had gone and see (ho shameful waste of timer in Cntlins and the dissraceful neglect of that line, and they would, like him, feel pretty indignant about it. He would ppenk out on tlfeae matters, and if they did him the honour to return him as their representative, as he felt sure they would do, the important works of Otago would have a strong champion, but he would never support mere frittering away or money.—( Apnlan^e) . HIS POSITION TOWARDS GOVERN-. MENT LEGISLATION. Now. he bad fully and freely criticised roth e best of his ability the finances of the Government, but he did not wish them to imagine from what he had said that he was' going in to run amok against the policy of the Government generally, for he had no intention whatever of doing so. On the contrary, he might safely say that he was so far as their legislation went, a general supporter of it. for there was very ,little ofit that did not meet with his approval;

indeed, there wcro few men in the colony who had more sympnthy with any legislation that improved the condition of the worker than he had. THE LATE SIR JOHN M'KENZIE'S LAND REFORMS. To begin vith, ho might say that in his humble way he had always been an ardent supporter of the late Sir John M'Kenzi-e's land law reform. In the early seventies he, as 'a boy, had got im first political training at public meetings in Hyde, when the battle was settler versus squatter, and the tp.ies*ion the settlement of the people on the land and the cutting up of the runs. In thoso days his late father had been a fearless advocate of bursting up the runs, although pressuro of all kinds was brought to bear on him to desist. He (Mr Ramsay) had early imbibed liberal views on this question, and when John M'Kenzie came down with his policy he had both written and • spoken in strong support of it; nor had ho ever seen cause to change his opinion. It would not b<? necessary for him to tell the people of Middlemarch what his views were in this respect, for they knew, and that was the reason why he was going to scoop the pool up there; but down here it was necessary for him to. tell them tliat he was in a position to prove that the late Minister of Lands' opinion of him was that he had a better grasp of the land question than any man he had supporting him. This might bo called egotistical, but it was a fact' nevertheless, for he had studied the question both practically and theoretically ever since he had first heard his father standing up for land settlement in the good old ■ digging days of the seventies. It had been his hobby all those years, and as Taieri had had the honour to give to New Zealand the author of the first. Liberal land la.w in the colony, Donald Reid's Deferred Payment Aot, an act that had been the forerunner of every liberal land measure, he hoped Taieri would return him to put to some use that information he, like the author of the Deferred Payment Act, and like the late Minister of Lands, had got by practical, experience and hard work on a farm.—(Applause.) CHOICE OF TENURE. Etc. With regard to <the present land laws of the colony, he might say that while he would like to give every man who was a bona fide settler his choice of tenure, still ho thought cash sales of land were sometimes dangerous. He remembered a case, for instance, which happened somo years ago in Central Otago, ■where a run was cut up on choice of tenure, and what happened was this, that the runholder and some dummies applied for the sections, strange to say got them all at ballot, bought them out for ,cash, and thus effectually killed settlement on that particular run. That had to be guarded against, and that was guarded against in, the present system of occupation with right of purchase. It was what the deferred payment guarded against, and what he thought all truly Liberal measures should guard against; but he had no objeotions when a, man proved his bona fides as a settler to give him a freehold.

SMALL GRAZING RUN AND OCCUPATION WITH RIGHT OF PURCHASE THE BEST.

If he were to express an opinion, however, ho, would say that the small grazing run system and occupation with right of ■ purchase system were the two best systems New Zealand had yet had, because they enabled the man of small means to got a start-in life. He knew hundreds of men in Central Otago who had begun with only enough money to pay the first half-year's rent, fence the ground, and build a sun-dried brick wharo, and who ■were now well-to-do settlers employing labour, and all because they had not to find a big sum of money to purchase land. Those men very often became the very best settlers the colony had.—(Applause.)

LAND FOR SETTLEMENTS ACT. Perhaps, however, the most important of John M'Kenzie's land aots was the Land for Settlements Act. They all knew the storm of abuse he 'had to encounter when he brought it forward, and he himself thought there \might have been better safeguards with regard to purchasing estates; but although there had been blunders, and perhaps worse, the aot, he believed, had on the whole proved a success, and here agaiu we saw large numbers of landless people enabled to get a fair start in life. Whilst their removal from the ranks of employee to that of employers was of great advantage to the State, one point, however, appeared to have been overlooked, and that was utilising the provisions of the act for the purpose of providing workmen's homes in the neighbourhood of large cities. This was «n important matter which the present Minister did not seem to be alive to, but which would, he hoped, receive attention. He could say a great deal more on the land question, but had no desire to weary them. He hoped he had proved his right to claim the name of a pronounced Liberal on this question, which, he could- assure them, was one he took the greatest interest in, and, in his opiniou, one of the most important in the cidony, for John M'Kenzie's land policy had placed the Government in the strong position it occupied.

ADVANCES TO SEJCTLERS ACT. This was an act that he must candidly confess he was at first very dubious about, because he had seen so many risky securities taken up by the department. But he was always ready to be convinced, and was honest enough to admit that so far as anyone could at present judge the aot was going to be a thorough success. No one, he could assure them, would be more delighted than he if that was*so, for anything that tended to help the man of moderate means, increase the comfort of the struggling settler, and thereby help forward the progress of the colony, had his entire sympathy.

(HEAP (MONEY THE CORNER STONE. Now the corner stone of those two acts wae cheap money, and, as he had , put his criticism of the borrowing policy side by side •with his approval of the land for settlements and advances to settlers policy, they would paihaps permit him to point out to them that if we kept on borrowing money for purposes such as pleasing particular people, and not for genuine prosecution of reproductive national undertakings, we would soon land ourselves in such a position that we could inot borrow money for advances to settlers or land for settlements except at Buoh a rate as to be prohibitive. Hβ had deemed it right at this point to show the difference between borrowing for reckless squandering and borrowing for genuine expenditure, and how the success of the latter depended on the exercise of prudence and caution. LABOUR LEGISLATION. There was another question on whidh no doubt they waiting to hear his opinions, and that was the labour legislation. He could again say that he approved of this legislation, providing it was not pushed to extremes. The great achievements of the Government in this respect had been the Conciliation and Arbitration Act, Shops and 'Shop Assistants Act, Factories Act, Workers' Compensation Act, and others which he need not specify. Those acts had been found to work well, although •he was of opinion that there should be less arbitration and , more conciliation. Employers and employees should endeavour to cultivate more of a spirit of friendship, and not look upon each other as natural enemies, end if that was done he was of opinion that there would be less arbitration. It was natural, at a-nyrate, that some friction should take place with a new order of things, but when they looked to the United States and saw the state of things there, where huge trusts and combines ground the worker to the dust, they must hope that no such thing would happen here. The ■workers had the act in their hands for protection, and so long as they vised it for that purpose it was right, but they must be prudent and only ask fair play, and not harass good employers, who were prepared to be conciliatory. There were some "bosses" he knew who could only be made fair by such means. Look at some of the offices in Dunodin, where men were paid for clerical work hacks' wages, and driven at high pressure morning, noon, and night. He knew a clerk in the employ of one of the richest merchants in the City ■who, after eight or ten years' service—and good service,—only got 25s per week. What could you do with such a man? He did not say all the employers were like that, but cited that man as an instance of the sort of man who should be made to " too the mark." He actually knew the same man to grumble because lie had to pay 6d railage on a horse-collar which his commercial traveller had sent in from the goldfields. That was the type of man against whom men had to t-ake united effort to protect themselves, and n man who had Rny spirit of fair play in his composition and had the practical experience as a worker that he had had could not help sympathising with anything in fairness in the way of labour legislation, but what the legislation of the future should be time must determine. He was of opinion that we should go steadily, and that there should be only such legislation as was necessary to meet special cases -of hardship, his principal reason for saying this being because he was of opinion that the business men m the cities were taking advantage of those acts to get better profits, and that the cost of living had risen in very much greater proportion .than the rise in wages warranted.—(Applause.) BILLS PROMISED. There were a large number of bills promised eession after session in t!ie Governor's speech, such as the Government Fire Insur-

anco Bill, Fair L\nt Til. Referendum Bill, ami iLocal Government Bili, which it was quite clear the Government had no intention of passing, and it was therefore unnecessary for him to discuss them.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. There was one department, however, in which there was great room for reform— namely, the Legislative Council—but it was perfectly clear that fio reform was to be expected from the Government imlcss the ncople spoke out with no uncertain sound. The Legislative Council, in his opinion, should either be radically reformed or abolished altogether, for as it existed at present it was more useless than the fifth wheel of a coach. It had become merely a kind of asylum for old dead beats and pals of the Premier, and no reform was to be expected. Now, he put it to them as honest Liberal men and women why it was that the Premier, who always asserted that he was prepared to trust the people, did not make this body elective as it ought to be in a democratic country. There was n. strong feeling of ' discontent in Parliament now with the present constitution of the Council, but he was certain the Premier's love of power w»3 such that he would never consent to make it elective. Ho had nn hesitation in saying that the Council should be elective, that it should be elected by the samo electors and on the samd franchise as the Lower House, that the constituencies should be much larger, and that the number of members should foe half of that of the Lower House.

BIBLE IN SCHOOLS. He now came to auother question that had been attracting considerable attention lately, and it was one on which he intended to speak with no uncertain sound, and his reason for so doing was just because it was a question on which the temptation to trim was great, and moreover one on which a lot of truckling had been done by members, who simply dismissed it by saying they were favourable, 'and quietly left it alone ever after. He referred to the Bible-in-sohools question. Now lihey all knew that he was a strong supporter of the present system of education, although he considered it by no means perfect, and it was not from any objection to the Bible it-self—for which he had as much reverence as anyone —that he was in favour of maintaining the present secular system, but because he was convinced that the introduction in any shape or form must necessarily result in the breaking up of our national system of education. He would set forth his reasons as briefly and clearly as possible, but he hoped in such a manner as to convince them. They all knew that in England and Scotland they had State cimrehes—in the former the Anglican and in the latter the Presbyterian,— that those churches were maintained by the State, and that their religion was the State religion. That meant that the Stat© undertook to teach religion and to teacu a certain religion. In this country, and, indeed, m all the coloniee there was no State church, and they would all see that there was therefore a fundamental difference oetween the colonies and the Home Country. In England and Scotland it was to be expected that the State, having adopted a religion and undertaken to teach it, should do so in the schools. While it equally followed that in a colony stich as this, where the State did not undertake to teach any religion, where- the State had adopted no religion, and where every man was free to worship under his own vine ».nd fig tree, the State should not teach religion in schools, but leave each church to perform its own work in that respect. If anyone was prepared to advocate a State religion and church for New Zealand it would follow as a consequence that the State should teach religion in schools, but did anyone know such an individual outside a lunatic asylum? Now, could it be seriously argued for one moment that the reading of the Bible would not be the State teaching religion, and if so, then, however short the time taken, the State would be departing •from the great principle that it is not a function of the State to teach religion. what answer could anyone make to that question? There was one other reason. We were in this colony a mixed people, and that was the reason why the State had no State church, simply because all churches were allowed to have a free hand. Now this raised another objection, and one that had been the main factor in bringing about our present secular system. He referred to the attitude of the Roman Catholics. They all knew that the Catholics kiept up schools at their own expense, and that the Catholic Church never ceased to contend that the present system was unjust. Now, he had always held that so long as the instruction imparted was purelv secular there was no injustice to any religion, because not one penny of public money was used for religious instruction. That, to his mind, was a complete answer to the Catholio charge of injustice. But suppose they departed from the principle of secularity to the extent of reading a chapter of the Bible, then there would be no answer whatever, and it would only be a question of time when the Catholics must, in common fairness, get grants for their own schools, because they all knew that it was a principle of the Catholics that their religion must be taught by their own clergy. It was no use replying that the Catholic children could use the censoience clause and stay away during Bible lesson, because the Catholics would still be contributing, h'owever slightly, to the teaching of a religion they did not believe in, whilst we would be refusing to allow them to teach the religion they did believe in. And what would follow? The Anglican Church would want a grant too, and have to get it, and he need not tell them what would be the result. Instead of one good, fully-equipped school in Mosgiel, well staffed and organised, they would have there three very indifferent schools, and. what was worse, the usual sectarian strife and bitterness. —(Applause.) He had but one other word to say on this subject, and that was to those who would not be convinced by arguments already adduced. Had it never struck them, that the Bible was a book that should be taught with reverence. Those of them who had read Burns's " Cottars's Saturday Night," knew how it was taught in Scotland. And he himself remembered how his father had taiHit it. He also remembered how it was gabbled over in. school, yet that was all those who advocated its introduction now asked for—a mere gabble over of a chapter. And under whose supervision? Any school teacher, be he good", bad, or indifferent! Would they be content with this in their churches, their Bible classes, and their Sunday Schools? They would not. And yet they were prepared to hand over the Book of Books to be made an ordinary school book, and handled by any man. For his own part, he was of opinion that the mother's knee was the proper place for that work, and that parents who wanted to shuffle the duty off on to the shoulders of the State were not alive to the responsibilities of their parentage. Now he hoped those who had accused him of rail sitting would admit that he had the courage of his convictions. He had not been afraid to speak out what he believed, and he had faith enough in the fairness of the people of the Taieri to believe that they would respect him for so doing.—(Applause.)

REFERENDUM. Having expressed his convictions on this matter, he came to the question of the referendum, and, he might say, that he was quite prepared to support putting the question to the people in that form. He recognised that if a large majority of the people wanted it, they must have it, be the consequences what they might. That was all lie could promise in t.hat respect, and he understood that was all the Bible-in-schools people wanted on this occasion. In this they were wise, because no fair man could oppose that, and if they looked back along tho line they 'must see that those who had professed themselves ns Bible-in-sehools candidates had never appeared in the House as warm advocates of it. THE LIQUOR QUESTION. He did not know that lie need say much on the prohibition question. It was not a very burning question in that electorate. If the matter was coming up new again he did not know that he would vote for local prohibition, because he thought they ought to have one thing or another—prohibition or liquor traffic over the whole colony, and not the stopping of it. in one plfice whilst the people could cross the bridge into another electorate and Ret drink.— (Applause.) That was his opinion about it, but" the matter was settled, and as far as he was concerned the act might very well be left as it is.—(Applause.)

THE WOMEN. He had specially invited the women that evening, and ho desired before he sat clown to say a few words to them. And_ he warned them against attempts that might be made to lead them off on a party cry by persons whose interest it was to manipulate their votes. The fact of the matter was there wore no two parties in New Zealand now, for the Government were so strong that the Opposition would never affect them, and the only proper course to pursue was to vote for that man who, by his personality and ability and grasp of public affairs, seemed best fitted to deal with questions as they arose. They should say to themselves: " What do we know about Land Arts, Employers' Liability Acts, Technical School Acts, and other such measures? Wo simply do not profess to form an opinion; but what we can do is to vote for the man wo think does know all about those things—and that is the man we will vote for,". They would bo told a

lot of claptrap about measures, not men, but the safest motto for both men. and women was men, not measures. If they got good men good measures would follow as naturally as sunshine appealed with the sun, but any fool could promise to guppart a measure for the purpose of getting votes. If the maxim " Men, not measures," had been acted upon more frequently we would not see such a collection of norcenties in the Ministry, in Parliament, and standing for Parliament. Nothing was of more importance in a representative than ability and honesty.—(Applause.)

IN CONCLUSION. He had as far as possible dealt with all the subjects he thought it necessary to address them on, but he was in their ha.nds for questions, and would answer as clearly and explicitly , as he had spoken any question put to him. He did not, however, profess to be able offhand to deal with every subject that might arise. If ho had a conviction or an opinion he would state it unhesitatingly. If he had none he would say so with equal frankness. He was in their hands, but before sitting down he wished to say that he hoped whatever the result of this poll might be the candidates would all endeavour to fight the battle in a manly way. He had resolved when he set out that he would not refer personally to a single opponent, for he held that if a man could not got into Parliament on his own merits he was a poor individual who tried to climb in on the demerits of his opponents. The electors had to make their choice, and he felt sure would do so with care, and all ho wished to impress on them was the fact that he was a practical all-reund man. Ho had an all-round experience that specially fitted him for the position. He had served the public in every other minor positiort, and he thought. that, should be demanded from any man who offered his services in a higher capacity—that was, of course, all other things being equal. He now left the issue in the hands of the electors, and had to thank them for the cordial and friendly attention they had that evening given him. He was now ready to answer questions, and he hoped those who had anything to charge him with politically would" come forward or for ever after hold their peace.—(Loud applause). QUESTIONS. Mr George Smith asked if Mr Ramsay was pledged in any manner to any society, combination, or union, and Mr Ramsay replied that he stood before them as a free candidate pledged to no body and no union of any kind whatever. Replying to the same gentleman as to his attitude in the House to the Labour party, if returned, Mr Ramsay said his attitude would be perfectly friendly. In anything that was fair and reasonable the Labour party had nothing to fear from him.

In reply to a question as to whether he would favour legislation whereby a tenant under the lease in perpetuity would be enabled to acquire the freehold of his section, Mr Ramsay said he would, provided the man had all the necessary improvements and had shown that he was a bona fide settler. He would not, however, be in favour of giving , the freehoid in goldfields lands. Mr W. D. Mason then rose to Lie feet and began putting a series of questions to the candidate. He said he was present in response to Mr Ramsay's challenge to state his reasons for asserting that that gentleman was not reliable and trustworthy as a politician. Being brought to book by the chairman for starting to make a. speech, Mr Mason said that Mr Ramsay ha<l stated in hi* speech that the net increase in t'he indebtedness of the colony was 15 millions since 1891, and only six millions of that had been borrowed for reproductive works. He wanted to know, if this six millions borrowed for reproductive works had been confined to money for land settlement and advances to settlers, what had become of the money for the acquirement of Native lands and also of the money used for the construction and maintenance of the permanent way or rolling stock for it. Mr Ramsny said that if he had omitted to include the amount for Native lands it was an oversight. He had not the amount available at the moment, but presumed the questioner knew it. Mr Mason said ho would assert that the amount was three millions at the least.

Mr Ramsay said he was willing to give Mr Mason the benefit of the doubt, but even that left six millions on the other side. As to money borrowed for placing rolling material on the permanent way, the most of it had been expended in replacing old material, and was consequently borrowed in orrier to swell the revenue. Mr Mason next asked Mr Ramsav to state on what platform, or in what periodical or newspaper, he had ever uttered or published a single word in favour of organised labour. , , Mr Ramsay replied that he had never been asked to so express himself and bed never come into connection with organised labour in any shape or form. He had already said what, his attitude had been towards the Liberal Government's legislation and his attitude in fighting the battle of the people over the land question. Every man had his own department, and that had been his. This was merely a catch question. Mr Mason said he was prepared to come to the meeting to prove he Mr Ramsay) was a shifty tricky politician. If he had such questions to put let him now come out with . M<r Mason asked if Mr Ramsay, whilst a Government supporter, had used his political influence to secure the dismissal of teamsters on the Otauo Central, and then got the work for himself, his brother, and brother-in-law, and rone-ived in two years £1400 out of a total of ,£5000; and did he afterward* go to Waikouaiti to de.nounoe the system as corrupt? Mr Rameay said tfoafc he did not use political influence- or any other influence to get himself work on the Otago Central. When the Otago Cenitral railway gob as far as Hyde Mr John. Meade came with 15 or 20 horses and was doing all the work in tho cuttings alonsy the line. The settlers up there had been struggling to make a living, and they thought it was very hard that 'they should not get a share of the work. "What die did was this: He called a meeting of settlers, and found out how many horses they had, and wrote to the Hon. John M'Kenaie stating that it was the Minister's duty to see that the settlers got « fair share of the work. Ho never asked the Minister ■that any of his own horses should be put on, but he believed tha>ti a number of the eefltler* did go to the Minister and have their horses put on the line. He was quite prepared to leave it to Mr E. R. Ussher to say whether he had ever had a single instruction either in writing or verbally to put Mr Ramsay's horses or the horses of any friend! of his on the line.

An elector asked if the candidate was in favour of allowing the prohibition laws to remain a? at present, and also if he was in favour of making it illegal to employ barmaids.

Mr Ramsay replied that he did not think ths -latter proposal was practicable at the present Itime. He was quite prepared to admit that there were evils in connection with the barmaid system, but so long as the sale of drink was permitted in hotels they had no more right to say that a woman muslt •not go behind the bur than they had to say that a man should not go there. Mr George Smith asked if Mr Ramaay was in favour of areas of coal lands on the West Coast being worked by the Government, to which Mr Ramsay re-plied that that was a question to which he had not given sufficient consideration to warrant him giving a definite answer. If the proposal put forward was proved to him to be a practical one he would support it. His mind was perfectly open on the subject. Asked by am other questioner if he wae prepared to insist that the licensing laws should be properly enforced as at present existing, the candidate replied "Yes." Asked as to hie position with regard to tho totalisator, he replied that he did not believe in gambling in any shape or form.—(A Voice: "Not even in sharebroking?") Mr Ramsay: "I take that as a question, and may tell you I had to retire from the business.")

Mr Mason next inquired if Mr Ramsay would explain how it was that when he was at Hyde lie was a Government supporter, at Waikouaiti a Government opponent, at Tuapekn. a Government supporter again in a minor degree, and also while at Hyde he was a strong prohibitionist, and later an agent for the , sale of intoxicating liquors? Mr Ramsay replied that he had pretty well explained his position as a. Liberal. He was a strong Government- supporter on certain linos, and had never shifted hie position. But ho was not prepared to become a party hack as a man had to when he stood for Waikouaiti. an-d he was then in hopes a new party would arise to which he could ally himself. If anyone referred to his speech of November 4, 1896, they would find he then took up muoh th<> same position as at present. He was now six years older, and had come to see that going a lone hand was an untenable position. As to prohibition', he was never a prohibitionist, nor oven a teetotaller. He was a temperate man. Asked as to- his position as to this question at Waikouaiti, he said he was in favour of the Liquor Bill, and would not give any

pledge to any organisation. That was his first attitude towards prohibition, and iifc was in no way different to Wβ present attitude. The last part of Mr Mason's question no doubt referred to the time when he was a commercial traveller, during which time, in the- course of his 'business for his firm, it was part of his duty to sell spirits, with otter goods, and whether he liked it or not there was no getting out of it. Ho never got one shilling of commission on tho sale of spirits. He got out of that sort of work as soon as the opportunity offered. VOTE OP THANKS. On tho motion of Mr Henderson, a hearty vote of thanks to Mr Ramsay for his addiees was earned unanimously. Mt Ramsay briefly returned fbahks, and on his motion the customary compliment was accorded to the Mayor for presiding.