A NO-CONFIDENCE MOTION.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 10416, 19 July 1895, Page 2

A NO-CONFIDENCE MOTION.

(Pcs United, Press Association.) Wellington, July 18. The House of Representatives met at 2 30 p.m. Formal business bavins; been disposed of The Hon. Mr SEDDON said that tbe leader ot the Opposition had yesterday given notice of nn amendment on going bto Commute of Supply which was a vote of censure on the Colonial Treasurer for statements he had made in Londou. There w 33 on ly one way to take an amendment of that kind coming from the teder^ of the Opposition, and he thought Captam Russell could not take objection to the Government adop<ih'g the action wliicb they mfended to take. The Government could of course put up^ Supply f cr best d..y to debate cr ' bnfc. he <Mr Seddon)'was taken t iv y / 6u c r P"ss °™ the amendment* As to the order of business, he intended to place members who had bills on the Order Papir in exactly the same position as they now oicnpied . and he would therefore ask those members to j agre.i to rhe Government moving that the House I go into Committee of Supply | Captain RUSSELL protested against the j course proposed by the Premier. Ha said he I was not ouly not informed of the course which | the Government intended to pursue till five | mmut-s before the House met, but a corrected i Order i*aper was afterwards put into members' bands vi. the- usual* way. This was only another trick of the Gozernment to take members by surprise, as the Premier .knew the Opposition were not prepared to debate the question straight off The Premier might at [ anyrate, if only as a matter of decency, postpone this matter till half-past 7 that evening. He should protest against the course adopted i by the Premier ip tbis matter. I After some further di-»-us<ion, The Hon. Mr SEDDON moved that all ordip of the day be postponed in order that the House might go into Committee of Supply. , Sir R. STODT said it was perfectly hope'ess to aebate the Colonial Treasurer's utterances in London till the House »ii< pat in possession of the return he had asked for with respect to the date on which the securities were sent Home Tbe Hon. Mr WARD said that information wai available to the House at that moment Mr G. HUTCHISON contended the House had. no particulars at all of the securities which the Colonial Treasurer had referred to. This matter could not possibly be considered' till the House was in pos?es<ion of that information He asked the Speaker whether it was possible to suspend the Standing Orders without the permission of the House being given. The SPEAKER siid it was customary when a no-coulid^nce motion wss pending to suspend other basmess oh the Order Paper The Hon. Mr SEDDON said he had never known the House to refuse the ■ suspension of ordinary business in order to consider a mo'ioh of this kind. He asked both sides of the House to extend to the Goverdment'ordinary courtesy in such cases. - After further debate. ■ ■' .The Hon. Mr SEDDON moved—" That the House go into: Cbmmifctee of Supply." He" twitted Captain Russell with bringing forward an .-imandment not to be outwitted by Sir R Scout or Mr Hutchison; and ■ said the whole tiling w&3, mea:nt; to undermine the credit of the colony, and it was by tactics of thi«/kind iQ-o Grey Grbvelumeni were wrecked in 18/9. The Government were not going to allow the Colonial Treasurer to be attacked in the way Captaiu Russell proposed to da without defending him from his opponents. He spoke at some length on the action of the Opposition which had succeeded Sir Georjie Grey in 1879, and said he could not understand how any men sitting on the Opposition benches at present could take such actio a. as Captain i' Russell was doing; which was only calculated to destroy the credit of ,the colony.. He compared .the Government to a good ship which was nobly endeavouring to: steer its course, but which the Opposition were endeavouring to wreck by the action they were how taking. He bitterly deprecated the action of tlinse men who had written letter after letter to England defaming thenonourbf thecolbny.—(Mcßbll- "Name ") Their name, was .legion. He asserted that the Oo.omal Treasurer, by raising a loan at 3 per cen u ., had reduced the rate of interest all over the colony, aiid lending institutions which had previously charged 8 and 10 per cent, hsd in consequence lost no opportunity of doiug their utmost; to remove the present Government from the Treasury benches, so as to replace them with men who would be more favourable to them. There was ho doubt about it that Mr Ward's visit Home had been approved of from the North Cape to the Bluff, and it had resulted in reducing the rite of interest at least 2 per cent. He warmly praised the working of the Advances to Settlers Act,-and snid Mr Ward's missidu to London had caused envy, hatred, and all uneharitableness. They "fere told Jha was going Home on private business, and because the Government had not stated what the lreasurer was going Home to do they were attacked in every, direction. If Mr Ward had not .been so successful in his mission the Opposition would .have attacked him with as much bitterness as they were now doing. • They had been, anxious thab the Treasurer's mission would be a failure. He deprecated Captain Russell s action in the Honse, which led to Sic G. Grey s resignation of his seat for Auckland, ano said the leader of the Opposition by attacking the Agent-general thought, no doubt, that gentleman wonld resign his position also. The chief offence of the Government and the Liberal party was that they had kept a strong nuaucs, and profiting by past exoerience his late chief (Mr Balance) had ever been actuated by a desire tp keep their finiance stroug, which had also bern maintained by' his (Mr Seddon's) Government. Referring to' Captain Russell b amendmeut, he said Mr Wa-d was compelled, owing *tb false . and malicious statements sent Home, to make the speech iv defence of the colony to the London Chamber of Commerce, and although people from North Cabe to liivercargill wtre pleased with Mr Ward's visit gome there.were a select few who refused to give the Treasurer any credit at all for what he had done, and that was the reason why Captain Kussell s amendment was moved. He referred at .length to the question of the Government securities, and said it was only in case e>f a crisis that the Government would be allowed to use these securities. Tbe people of the colony were behind the. Post Office and the Pnblic Trust Office, and ho asserted the people of New Zea,and would npt demur ■to the Government usi-.'g these securities in case of a national disaster occurring. It was ungenerous that soca charges as hid been made' against Mr Ward should bs made against a Minister of the Crown, and it was a poor reward indeed forone who had done so much for the colony as the xreasurer had done. Ee. asked the House silently and by nnanimons voice to negative Captain Russell's amendment. •• Sr-P'^^USSBLL moved his amendmentThat this House regrets that in his speech $%£ al nit? Chamber <* Commerce on the 25nh Apr.! 1895 the Colonial Treasurer should that. SBc, uriti«s to the v^iue of £0,000,000 were. unpledged ' and available for the purpose> of rawing money to pay interest on the public debt of the colony, whereas the larger portion of the. three millions counted of securities belonging tothe Post Office Savings Bank, Government Life Insurance Office, and Public Trust Office, then lying in London, under three keys, as pravided in the Public Revenues Act, and the House expresses its empnatic dissent from any such statement," He snd Mr Seddon had pr.id him the compliment of saying he had paid particular attention, to what he had said, but there was really no. reason to do that, because the Premier's speech was really a rehash of the post-sessional utterances he had delivered and he had not touched on the real question at ali. The Premier had assumed that he (Captain Russell) wished to attack the . personal integrity of the Colonial Treasurer, but he did not wish to take up tbat position at all. The Premier had refused to. give returns to enable the Opposition to debase this question, and then he refused to allow tbe matter to go to the Public Accounts Committee for consideration. Mr Seddon had stated that he was anxious to preserve the personal honour of his political opponents; bnt if it was wort;h while doing so, he (Ciptaiu Kussell) could prove he was doing exaetiy the reversein his cisc, at '. anyrate. The Premier had attacked private companies for lending money at 8 per cent., bat he might remind him that the company with which Mr Ward was intimately connected had been lending money at a far higher rate thnn that. Thft Premie- had referred to the Opposition aswrfclce-s, who had put out a falss light before a ship, but he (Captain Rasse*!) contended that it was the Treasurer who had put » false light before tha London world, and he took' up a position such as the Colonial Treasurer should not have done. He (Captain Rnssell) wished the people to know that the Treasurer said he had unpledged securities in Loudoa, wbich were really the saviucs of thepeopleinthePost Office aud Public Trust"Office Mr Ward had also told the people of London that the.inoueyn of the people in the Government Insurance Office, were liable to be use.l for the current ntctasitiei of the colony, and he thought that Mr Ward's utterances as to these points were likely to do more damage to the colouy than any criticism which the Opposition could make of the Government polinv. He quoted Mr Ward's speech from th= British Australasian, in which he stated that, instead of being hard up for cash, the Government bail three millions of unpledged j securities, sgainct which at any moment tbey j could "nave raised the money fco pay interest, ; «nd yet the Premier had just told the House that the Treasurer had only meant that these j securities could he used in the eveut of a national disaster. He also quoted the actual j words' Sir Ward had used in the House when a-skii'g it to l'B*"* '*"<* '"•a<' tRX '•'**' J'ear. *»d he asked bow the Treasure-.-cuild possibly reconcile that statement with the words he used to tha , London Chamber of Commerce. He .(Captain !

Russell) asked how the utterances in the House tallied with Mr Ward's remarks in London, to the effect that the man who had written an arSicle in London quoting his own word> to the House had a diseased imagination. The Premier's statement that calumnious remarks had bsea made by writers from the colony was mere assertion, and he had failed to quote a single esse in support of that statement. His (C*ptaia Russell's) opinion was that nothing could be more irrecoDcilaWe than thn statements made by the Treasurer in the House aod those made to the Chamber of Commerce in London, and as Treasurer he mutt have be;n aware when he addressed the House wbet-ber or not there was money at Home to pay the iuterest of the colony. Whatever sophistry the Premier chose to nse there could be no doubt that Mr Ward had made statements in London directly at variitiee with those made in the House, and ie was oniy right for the Opposition to point oat the difference in these .-tatements. He* failed to see :why the whole question of these securities could not be referred to the Public Accounts Committee, and he considered the Premier hid made this amendment a vote of no-confidence in order to compel members lo vote for him, who, if they voted according to their consciences, would strongly cocdemn the Conduct of the Colonial Treasurer. He condemned in strongest terms the Treasurer's action in saying that the savings of the people should be avsiiable for the current riecfSMties of the colony. Such action was moss injurious md highly reprehensible, and he hoped the House would support him in that contention. m 5 \ H°S* J-.M*KENZIE said the speech made by Captain . Russell woaWnot require any reply at. all were it not that the Governnism; did not want to show discourtesy to the fw i eat' ema?" Captain Ruiselt had stated that the Premier had only made a rehash of his post-sessional utterances, but . Captain *V 1: ,ha- d ?? ly fco,d them *bat been published in England over and over f . s^l (Captain Russell: "By whom?") By thJ. Tone, of Ne»- Zealand. 7 He quoied iktSs from the Investors' R sviaw from, a colonist of New Zealand of a high position which he regardedasjery derogatory ta the colouy, and some of which lie had seen iv the Hawke's Bay and Wairarapa paper*. What the Trewmrerbad to do in-.; London was to reply to such statements as these and similar ones Captain RusseU had stated that.it would be impossible to discujs (his question without returns, but when the returns were furnished by the Government, the Opposition did not -believe them and said they were manufactured tor thepurposs of proving t.o and two made bye. He asserted the I\ easurer had gone Home at great persona! inconvenience for the purpose of putting a true light on the position of the colony. He would uot accuse Captain Kussell of being anxious to see a crisis in the colony, but they knew people outside the HouSe were preparing for a crisis in order to.secure beceßts to themselves, and he contended the Colonial Treasurer's action in , London had saved such crisis from occurring.- He held that as the money of the Post Office Savings Bank had to be invested, it would be perfectly fair to use it if a run took place on the Post Office baying,- Bank, and that being -thei cise. the Colonial Treasurer did perfectly right insendW these securities to London to provide against any emergency that might happen.,Mr Ward when he 77. enb r fco, London found that the financial positioaoFthe colony was being misrepresented, and he had to take an opportunity of correcting the misstatements not chly published at Homi bus which were scattered broadcast by people from the colony itself. As to money required for interest, they had at Home securities fob tor a larger amount than the £350,000 raised by the land tax. He held that if Captain Bussell got all the returns he-asked for his ignorance of the matter would not allow him to understand it. Mr Hntchison also pressed for returns and:when he did get thei he could ' not understand them.—(Mi- Hutchison- "I have not got one yet.") The* fa*ct .was Mr HntchiEon wanted to get on the Treaanry benches, but if Captain Russell managed to carry his amendment he felt sure he fcoaid not ask ,At George Hutchison to join hiuuiti "fdimms a Government. If he (Mr M'Kefeiel had time he coaid prove that previous Treasurers had borrowed money on the security of the trust funds. — (Mf Hutchison•* ■ "Never ") '?^* fio». »enfclenian himself had at ohe time held a different opinion when- he made his ce.ebrated speeches on the Bank of New Z&>-la-.d. He was quite aware the Oppositiohwere unhappy, but he asserted that the financial position of the colony was never better th*ih at present, notwithstanding the depressed stite of 6nr produce and low prices. He defended the Agent-general's circular, and said it was pablished mi order to save the credit of the colonyAfter referring to the successful land policy of the present Government, he said the success of that policy was so apparent that it Was easily to Sf. nnaw-tood why the Opposition tried to kill their bills on every occasion. He asserted that Cap u am Russell's object in bringing forward his amendment was in order to influence the Auckland election. . <• .; ■;.--■■:■;-.•■.'..-■.. On the House resuming at 7:30 pm'-". """ _ Mr G. HUTCHISON said the Miirister for Lanas had not touched at all on the real question—namely, the veracity of the Colonial Treasurer in London. H« haa referred to all soris of subjects. The Premier had very unfairly tried to fasten oh Captain Russell the resignation by Sir G. Grey of his seat, but it was well known that a week before Captain Russell had referred to the matter in the House Sir G S rSLU eSI? Q3,tion was practically decided on! Hr M Kenzie had occupied a great portion of his speech, in referring to the unhappiness of the Opposi u ion,bnt that was really the highest compliment he conld pay them. They were unhappy, as all true patriots and true colonists mnst be when they found oneof the leading Ministers of the day deceiving the financiers of London, on the eve of floating a great loan, as tothe financial position of the colony. Ha admitted that the loan was successfully raised, bnt the cheapness of money was phenomenal at the time of the Treasurer's visit, and for that the colony had reason to be thankful; Referring to Mr Ward's statement in London, Mr M'Kenzie said the money wag placed in London in view of a crisis, and that these securities might be used in connection with the Bank of New Zealand. The Minister knew all about that bank, and he had stated during the.recess that the Government knew months before of the position of that bank. He quoted again Mr Ward's statement in London as to having three millions of unpledged securities at the disposal of the Government. That statement had been cheered by those who heard it, as. it gave the impression that - the Government, if they so desired, could use these securities for cnrrent purposes. He quoted also from the London Times that New Zsaland bad, before raising the loan, three millions of securities lying idle in London, aad if thst statement were not correct it, was the duty of Mr W.ird, who was in *Londoa at the time, to contradict it. The fact was these securities were not unpledged, and they belonged to the policy-holders of the Government Insurance department, to the depositors of the Post Office, sad to the investors ia the Public Trust department.. They were told these securities were intended to be used in case of a.crisis' but there \yas no indication of a crisis in the Treasurer's speech in London ; on the contrary, the whole tenor of that speech showed that these securities could be used for current purposes It was a sorry farce to say that three trustees held the keys of these securities when the Colonial Treasurer possessed skeleton keys so that he could use them if necessary. He (Mr Hutebifoh) trusted - that the reprobation of public opinion in this matter would be such a warning to ,the Colonial Treasurer that no Treasurer in the colony would ever act in the same way a^aiu. .TheHon.Mr REEVES said the melodrama tbey had just listened to had been more laboured than usual, but he had heard the same oid adjectives levelled at Sir H. Atkinson years ago. rhey were told the same old stuff that the Opposition did not waut to turn' the Government out, but they had heard that before also. He denied that the' Minister for Lands had cv« said he knew all about the Bask of New Zealand-(Mr Gsbek : « I heard him say so. ) Well, that must be another example of tbe veracitjy 01 Opposition news^pers. Mr Hatefawoa had stated _ that Mr Wa£d had given no indication of a crisis, whereas Mr Ward had distinctly stated these securities would be avail,JX « H, l-i j - ad been read so often it was not worth while doing so a S ain Referring to Mr Hutemson's statement that there had been a fraudulent misuse of trust funds, he depreand Mr Ward, and said if any member in the House should not make such comparisons as that, it was the member for Pat** That hon. gentleman had stated that mover was so cheap m London that no particular credit was due to toe Treasurer ; but the o PP o<itivu had prsuicted th*tthe loan wonld be a faiime, and became the Treasurer had falsified their prophecy ,hsy pursued him to the bitter end in hatred over this mission to London. Why bad nou the Opposition'attacked the m=n in London who libelled New Zealand aud did their best to injure its credit ? There was a grand opening lor them, but they did not take advantage" of it: they reserved all their attack for a man who deserved so well of his country as the Colonial ih^XXX™ <" ,d* If fche doiu Ss of fhose who libelled the colony were exposed the Opposition teareu they might expose their own friends, and that was the reason why they made no efforts mi attack tbem. It was shameful and disSrscefii! to see the attacks on the colouy th s t were sent Home constantly, and *"hsj could' not be too severely condemned. Ke;-p-cting the seeuriiies, he held that the people who lent money to these departments had no right or title to those securities. All thsy could demand was to get tbeir money " f»ack again, aud the debentures were entirely b-t ween l he Treasury and the ' departments. Tht:ir teeurity for getting their money back wss the credit of the colony, and taey knew that as long as that credit was safe th^ir money "-"as safe alio. The only thing that could make them lose their money was a great crisis Tiiese "•■ouritits wive iv the hands cf their legal gu&tdiimm, and pcnln uot be unit eked bythe Treasurer by any skektoa key, and it was an insult to those guardians to assert the contrary

If these securities were to baok up the general credit of the colony, than the credit of the colony must be used to back up these securities. If the general credit of', the country were shattered, those unfortunate investors for whom the , Opposition felt such solicitude would be ruined, and the only way th&t could happen would be by the bankruptcy of the colony. Tbey were told they had no more right to use these securities than a banker bad tb nse trust deeds in his possession, but there was no comparison whatever between the caaes. The Colonial Treasurer, he held, had done nothing legally, equitably, or morally wrong, and yet on returning to the colony he was attacked, below the belt, which was a sorry recompense for a public man who tried to do his. duty. If this sort of thing was to go on, political life would ceasa to have any attraction for men of the highest character.

Mr BELL supposed that was the kind of speech which the Government party liked, and he was afraid therefore that he could not reach their intelligence, nor would he attempt to follow the trail of the red herring which Mr Reeves had drawn across the scent; He deprecated the language Mr Reeves had used towards Mr Hutchison, Svhich wa,3 personal and malicious to a degree, and snch an no -mail in his position should indulge ih. He was sorry to see the Minister for Labour make such au exhibition of himself in- this respect; Mr Keeves had told them that the Treasurer held the master key by which he cbald get at these securities.—(Hon. Mr Ward: ''When did I say that?") He (Mr Bell) was not referring to Mr Ward, bnt to Mr Reeves; but he was glad to hear the Treasurer repudiate that; He admitted that these securities could be used for the" Poat Office, but not for the Public Trustee and not for Government Insurance, andnot.for public purposes. He (Mr Bell) did not accuse the Treasurer-of having committed a theft, but Mr EeevCß had deliberately defended Mr "Ward from a position which woiild be called iii any other .walk of life one of simple larceny. He accused Mr iteeves of reading portion of a section of ah act and refusing to read the full clause, thereby deliberately misleading the House; Mr Reeves said Mr Ward's actiou was iegal and equitablej but he asked him to test it. Mr Ward had ho power, to take the securities out of the chest in London, because the Audit Office in London, who was not under the control of the Government, held one of the toys of the chest. The fact was, as he had before stated, this was a reckless misstatement on Mr Reeves's patt, for which there was "no:, justification whatsoever. The people looked to the colony,'he admitted, but that did not give the Government: the right to play the part of fraudulent trustees. The colony was traduced and slandered iti London, but the Colonial Treasurer was the traducer and slanderer.—(The Speaker : " I must ask for the withdrawal of that Statement.") He ■withdrew it at once; but the* Minister for Education had used similar language.—(The Speaker: '"That is a Miction on me.'') He did not intend it as a reflection bh the Speaker, biit he could not continue his remarks:aftei" being subjected to that irisihuitionV .

Mr PIRANI thought when Mr Bell rose they were going to get a les.ou iv politeness. The hon. gentleman himself had used several strong epithets to Ministers and members qf the House generally. He had also misled 'the House as to the stttement made by Mc Keeves, who had said exactly the opposite of what Mr Bell had Stated—viz, that although these securities were tbe property- ol the departments they could he mcd by ,the colony in the event of a crisis. Mr Reeves alao said that the securities would not be used without the consent of their legal guardians which was a different version to that given by Mr Bell. He (Mr Pirani) held that it was as fair to use securities to protect the colony as to protect auy run on any of the departments. What the Government party complained of was that tbe Opposition lost no opportunity ot crying down the credit of the colony aud refltcting on the personal credit of its Ministers.

Mr BARNSHAVV said there was a time when he thought Blr Reeves could keep closely to a debate. His whole speech that night was a string of platitudes. Mr Keeves had referred to a number of men returned to support the Government at the last election, bnt that sounded Strangely coming from a gentleman who had requested his constituents not to pass a certain resolution as it would reflect on him. He-was given to speak plainly, but not personally, respecting the Colouial Treasurer, and he asserted that Mr Ward hsd gone Home more on his own business than that of the colony. He had in fact gone more for the purpose of floating the Nelson company than for the purpose of floating a loan for the colony, and he was of opinion that Mr Ward had not got the loan a shilling cheaper than the Agent-general conld have done. He condemned the Government for making the, Colonial Treasurer's utterances in London a party question, and asserted that a majority of the House condemned Mr "Ward's utterance, yet, uuder the party whip, they would vote against Captain Russell's amendment. The Minister for Lands had stated that the amendment wa3 brought forward to influence the Aucklaud election, but if there wns one subject more than another thafc Ministers should be silent about it was that question, and if the working men of Auckland were wise they would reject the nun put forward by the Government, who were no iriends of the Labour party,

Mi-COLLINS would hot have risen but for the resurrection of an old charge as to the subserviency of - the Government party. - He in-tended-vofcingy against the amendment,- as he considered that there had never been brought forwardra want of coiflidence motion on such a trifling pretext as the present one. He accused Mr Earnshaw of being thoroughly inconsistent in his political action, abd said, so long as ho remained a member of the Labour party he had no right: to accuse Other members of inconsistency, were tcld Mr Ward had gone. Home oh private business, biit he (Mr Collins) contended that thei'Treasurer had donetbe work of the eblouy well and faithfully. They were told last session that the' colony .'was being ruined, and the Treasurer was told if he went to the London market he would lind how tbe colony had suffered ; bub the result had proved these statements to be utterly untrue, as the credit of the colonynever Stood higher than at the; present time. He strongly deprecated the attacks made ou the colony, aud said Mr Ward's mission to London had bsen a greafc success in every way. All efforts made to damage the colony were'in vaiu, which waS shown by their credit being higher than ever .before.

iDr.NEWMAN accused Blr, Collins of using outrages twaddle respecting Mr Ward's mission to London,' ahd' said that for £ per cent, they were told his.mission had been such a-tast success. He tiwught' when Mr Collins was a little longer in the colony he woiild hot be so easily influenced. They were told all^ about": the Opposition being so unpatriotic because tbey criticised the action of _the Government. But one thing was certain, that the Government party itself would never criticise^ anything the Government did, and the Opposition, small as ifc was, were hot going tb be fi-igbtened by the tiger bray of the Government side of tho : Hoiise. They had all taken the trouble to find out what Mr Ward had Baid in London, bub the feet was the' English newspapers steadily ignored him, and even after his wonderful speech the London Times came ont for two successive' -issues and nothing whatever appeared respect ing that speech till it was supplied ou the "third day after it was made by Mr Ward himself-and the Agentgeneral. He" characterised Mr Ward's speech in London a3 being the moat extraordinary he bad ever heard, ai it meant that all the Public Trust fund* and Post Office deposits were really in the band* of fche Colonial Treasurer to be used by bim if he thought ifc necessary. He tcok it that tliere had never been such a blow levelled at, our trust funds as Was dealt by the Colonial Treasurer in London. He regretted that the Minist-y wa-i going from bad ■to worse. -All our. cash was gone, and Mr Ward now wanted to take the trust funds of tie colony. When they wei-e gone he should hke to know what would happen next. He wl. ***?*■ v- ms lanch°vy thing to see Mr that n£bl* U V S h- 8! l° UeaSUe ** he had dOD« dMVvSlff" Hw* ,d he bad idopted a very Suenls e%e hi£ G^tchurch con-

Mr wSd'°Y? H| R WaS ready t0 that Mr Wards trip Home had added to bis merit •ihJh«,n 7 bXX t he *"■**' P">P»red to say whether all his statements were guided by his &te£ ni$ h°ngh he had his 'lonb£ o£ .hat matter Tbey were told by the Minister for Labour that these securities were available ior a-crisis but he asked whether, if they were called on to pay two millions for the Bank of pay it ? If these funds were to be available for such purposes ss they were told, tben the deposits of tbe people bad been secured by false pretences and the Colonial Treasurer should make a clear statement on that point when he addressed tbe House.

MrE. M. SMITH held that they had ample security to offer not only for theone million and a-hali. but for 10 millions. He considered they were justified m an emergency in taking the Public Trust funds and Post Office deposit He said ifc was admitted on all hands that the Government had brought the finances of the colony to a sound position

Mr M'LACHLAN thoushfc, after hearing the arguments on both sides, that the Colonial Treasurer had not intended to deceive the London people by his statements. He condemned Captain Russell's utterances diirin? the recess*: when he referred to tbe Ministry as a one-man Government, snd when he referred to Government supporters as parasites. He deprecated all this outcry against the Colonial Treasurer, who had done in England what no Other man had ever done for the colony Mr HONE HEKE held it was the dnty of every member to try ahd ascertain the true position of tbe finances of, th 6 colony, and the people of the colony should demand from the Government that the.y sbc-uld supply all the information asked for by members to enable them to find oufc thafc position. He believed

the Colonial Treasurer's utterances in London were not justified by facta. Mr MACKINTOSH deprecated the waste of time that had taken place by dragging this subject before the House, and instead of damaging the Government it only strengthened their position. The Colonial Treasurer was to be congratulated in obtaining cheap money for farmers. It waa easy to understand the opposition of lawyers, because their craft - was in danger. Not only had tbe Treasurer pusif d the cheap money legislation, but he had gone to England and successfully floated a loan thnt gave the farmers cheap money. • - Mr MORRISON thought that the feeling of gratitude to publio servants for services renilered was .dying out of the present generation. His opinion was that the Colonial Treasurer's roissionto England was so successful thai the Opposition press of the colony was thoroughly diimfouhded at the ruccbss, and it had found other means of attacking.him.Mr WI PERE thought this money should be advanced to Natives as well as Europeans so as to improve their lands.

Mr STEVENS was more inclined to-believe the Colonial Treasurer's utterances were correct than the mere assertions in the , amendment that they were hot correct. He held that the credit of the colony was sufficient guarantee for the various ttust funds deposited by the departments. He warmly praised the ability of the Colonial Treasurer, which he considered was responsible for the good financial position of the colony; Mr MILLS moved the adjournment of; the debate.—Agreed to.1

The House rose at 12.25 a.m,