EVENING SITTING.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 8901, 4 September 1890, Page 3

EVENING SITTING.

i The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. 3 STATE BANK. MrVßßßALLcontinaed his remarks,strongly i urging on the House the necessity of a State

| bank. He regretted he should not be able to I bring his State Bank Bill forward this session. I Mr BROWN seconded the amendment. | Mr SAMUEL deprecated the waste of time that had occurred over this matter.

Mr FISH considered Mr Verrall had us munh right to ventilate his ideas as any other member, and he thought Mr Samuel was not warranted in lecturing members. Mr BEDDON wondered when Mr Fish, Mr Samuel, and himself would meet again, and he ventured to assert tbat those three hon. gentlemen wasted more time than any other members of the House.

The amendment was lost by 35 to 21, and the House went into COItMITTBB OF SDPFLY for consideration of tbe Estimates. Defence department, £750. —Mr Goldie moved a reduction of £50.—The Hon. Captain Russell pointed out that a few years ago the people of New Zealand were frightened out of their wits by thoughts of a foreign foe coming to the colony. Mr Ballance was at that time Defence Minister, and he took the steps he considered advisable to defend the forts of the four cities; but there were many other places which might ba attacked as well as the four cities. The question of defence, therefore, was a difficult one, and he regretted to say at the present moment they had no defences at all. If the committee, therefore, reduced the vote, it would make the defences weaker still. After explaining the position of the different batteries and the force by which they were manned, he Baid that to properly man all their ports and work the torpedo mines, &c. they must have a certain number of skilled men to keep them in order and work them. There were 78 guns altogether, which were manned by 109 gunners; whereas it would take a detachment of 16 men for each gun. But that would not be enough to man the batteries. Tho proper complement for the whole of our batteries in time of war was 1225 men. If the committee allowed him to do so he would guarantee within two years to have the volunteers so efficient that they would be able to man the batteries at half the ordinary cost. That could be done by a proper system of organisation, and would ensure a properly trained force. As to Sub-lieutenant Hume's appointment, the Imperial Government had offered certain facilities for young men in the colonies wishing to join the army, on condition that they had had a certain amount of experience in the colonial forces. He was therefore admitted to the permanent force temporarily in order that he might have the necessary experience to enable him to go up for examination for an Imperial commission. Moreover, the number of officers at present was very small. He proposed to have four of these sub-lieutenants, but he did not believe they should necessarily be appointed from the civil service, or because they were sons of persons in good positions, but that there should be competitive examinations. Reverting to the question of a general force, the Minister expressed an opinion that Imperial officers should be obtained to command the force, men who would spend a few years in the colony and then be followed by others. At present the volunteer force was not trained, nor was it properly armed. The money they had been spending for years in this way was practically wasted, bocause we got nothing reliable for it. He would propose thai they Bbould make the volunteers some allowance to compensate them for loss of time, and also for personal inconvenience whilst they were in course of training. It was possible, he said, to put the colony in a good state of defence for a limited sum of money. For the sum of £56,550 we should be able to pay a partially paid volunteer force in the four oities, also a torpedo force, and a number of rifle clubs. He should propose to have power to call out a certain number of first-class militia. One of the conditions of the service in the four centres would be that the men should be enrolled for say three years. They would be compelled to go into camp for seven days a year, for which they should receive 7s per day. In addition to that they would have 15J half-days' drill at 2s 0d per day. They would therefore be able to earn over £6 per annum, which would more than compensate them for their loss of time, and he believed that would popularise the volunteer service. Then as to the number they should require. In Wellington, for instance, the total force required would be 766 men, consisting of garrison artillery, field artillery, torpedo men, engineers, mounted men, submarine mining men, and rifles. A similar number of men would be required for each of the centres, and country corps would be allowed practically to remain as they were at present. He contended, therefore, that for £86,483 they would have an efficient force properly trained and manned; a force, moreover, that would cost £20,000 less than the amount spent during the last year of office of the late Government. In Victoria, the amount spent on defences was £210,130; in New South Wales, £175,760; while in New Zealand

it would only amount to £86,480, although this colony contained several centres which it was necessary to defend. He wished to impress on the committee that they must maintain their batteries in proper order or else dismantle them, and he believed it was in the power of the colony to have a thoroughly trained force for a moderate outlay.—The Hon. J Ballance defended the expenditure of the late Government in regard to defence, and said those defences had received the approval of Sic William Jervois, General Schaw, and General Edwards — all highly competent men. If the forts were not properly equipped now it was not the late Government that should receive the blame, but the Government of which Captain Russell himself was a member. It waß a well-known fact that when they left office the forts were in a complete state in every respect. His opinion was that it was only necessary to defend our large ports; and it was very unlikely smalter places would be attacked. He did not agree that officers should be taken from the civil service, and he considered many men in the permanent militia would make competent officers. He held that a partially paid system of volunteers was unnecessary, and would not work. It would also establish a standing army in the colony. His opinion was that if the volunteers were properly organised they would get just as good men from country corps as from the cities, aud owing to their extensive railway service they would be able to concentrate volunteers from all parts of the colony in 24 hours. He denied that money would be saved by Captain Russell's system, and he thought not less than £100,000 down would be required for the initiation of a standing army such as that proposed.—Mr Monk spoke at length on the question, and hoped the defence estimate would be reduced by £50,000 or £60,000 at least.—The Hon. E. Richabdson (Kaiapoi) mentioned that there was no part of the colony that was more anxious for the defence of its farts than Auckland; and he would like to know whether Mr Monk would, if speaking at Auckland, condemn the defence expenditure as he had just done. —Mr Monk said he had done so, and be had warned the Auckland people that they would regret the expenditure on defenoes.—Mr Andeeson hoped that Mr Monk and other economists would not cut down the defence vote too much. —A very lengthy discussion ensued, in which a great many members took part—Blr Goldie's amendment was lost by 31 to 14—Permanent Militia (£29,768): Mr Thompson (Marsden) moved to reduce this vote by £10,000, with the understanding that it should apply to the total defence vote of £165.826—The Hon. Captain Russell said a reduction of £10,000 would be absolutely ruinous. He should agree to £7000 being taken off. — Eventually a reduction of £7000 was agreed to, on the understanding that it should be left to the Minister's discretion to effect the reduction wherever he thought advisable, in the whole defence class the volunteer vote to be excepted. The remaining items in the department were passed as printed.

Governmentlnsursnce department, £10,984. — Assistant Commissioner, £800: Mr Fish moved that this item be omitted. —The Hon, B. MitCHBtsovr said this was a very necessary officer, who had control of all investments on mortgage, and had a seat on the board. Lost by 30 to 12.—Mr Thompson (Marsden) moved to reduce the voto by £400. Lost by 20 to 15.— Mr Fish moved to reduce the vote by £399, and paid it was a scaudal to keep the vote on the Estimates. Lost by 20 to 7 —Mr Lawby moved to reduce it by £350. Lost by 80 to 15.—Mr Fish moved a reduction by £340, and complained that he had lately been deserted by the tail of the Opposition in making reductions, but he haJ now been deserted by the leader of the party.—ln reply to Mr Allen as to who had appointed Mr Luokie, tho Hon. G. F. Richardson saie he had been appointed by the Grey Government. —The vote was eventually reduced on Mr Beyce's suggestion by £300.—Mr Goldie moved to reduce the salary of Inspector and Superintendant of Branches, £700, by £100.—Lost by 22 to 8.

(Left sitting at 2 a.m.)

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