HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 7568, 20 May 1886, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

: Tuesday, Mat 18. .The following concludes our report of the debate on . the address-in-reply. .". The Hon. J. BALLANCE said he was not aware that the civil servants were overpaid, and considered there was ■no extravagance in the Government departments. He had told the JHquse. distinctly last session that it was the intention of the Government to acquire a Block of land for the North, island Trunk railway, and they had since endeavoured to carry out that promise. He denied that he had told the natives to keep the whole of their lands in their own possession, but he also contended it was their duty to provide that the natives did notpartwith the whole of their estate. He (Mr Ballance) was as much opposed to Maori landlords as to great white landlords. He defended the purchases made by the Government for defence purposes, and was prepared to lay the whole of the papers on the subject on the table.so that the House could judge whether ah exorbitant price was paid or not., He considered the debate that evening had been of a most ; gratifying character, and it showed that the conduct of the Government during the recess had not afforded any just grounds for attack by the other side of the House.

Mr LEVESTAM, referring to Mr Wakefield's remark, said that the North Island members ifad voted against the Representation Act in 1881, and that act was not passed by any compact, but under circumstances in connection with the Nelsonmembers which it was not now necessary to go into.

Mr W. F.BUCKLAND said he had a good deal of fault to find with the administration of the Government during the recess. He did not object to the Government buying native land, and should like to see tKem buy all the native land they could. He would support the Government in resuming the pre-emptive right in native lands. He had a great many indictments against the Government. They had taken great pains to damage the Auckland members during the recess. He said the Government must not think by the present debate that their policy was unchallenged, and he quite agreed with Mr Moss that the finances were in anything but a sound condition. The motion was then put and agreed to on the voices.

The House adjourned at 10.45 p.m,

Wednesday-, May 19. the House met at 2.30 p.m: , DEATH OF-SIR ERSKINE MAT;

■ The SPEAKER said he desired to express to the House his deep regret at the death of Sir Thomas Erskine May, the well known Parliamentary authority, news of which had been received by that day's cable. REPRESENTATION BILLi The Hon. R. STOUT said he hoped it would not be necessary to introduce a Representation Bill altogether, but only to deal with those districts where increase of population required it. REPLIES TO QUESTIONS. * Replying to Mr WiParata, whether the Government will be prepared to bring in a bill during the present' session empowering the Native Land Courts to subdivide lands granted to Maoris in the South Island, also lands not yet granted, . '-.'_'■ The Hon. Mr BALLANCE said the Government had given notice of a bill to give effect to this matter. Replying to Mr Fulton, rwhen the reports in connection with the administration of the Rabbit Act, will be laid before the House, _Mr J. A. TOLE said the reports were being printed and would be laid on the table.

Replying to Mr Joyce, if the Minister of Lands in view of the protests he has received against leasing the Seal Fisheries, proposes to consider any of the tenders which may have been sent in, and further if. he will engage that none shall be accepted without having been submitted to the -House for its approval.

The Hon. Mr BALLANCE said no tender "had yet been received, and the provisions for leasing would be laid before the House. •■'■•- BILLS INTRODUCED. The following Bills were introduced:—Alienation of Land Bill (Hon. R. Stout), New Plymouth Recreation Reserves Bill (Major Atkinson), Natiyeßeserve Grown Grants Empowering Bill (Hori.Mr Ballance), Native Land Administration Bill (Hrin: Mr Ballance), Bill to Amend and Consolidate the Laws relating to the Native Land Court (Hon. Mr Ballance), City of Dunedin Leasing Bill (Hon. R. Stout), Bill to Provide for the Limitation of Votes at the Election of Members of the House of Representatives (Sir G. Grey), Bill to Regulate the Admission of Persons to Practise in Courts of Law (Sir G. Grey). SINKING FUND. Mr JOHNSTON moved for a return showing amount of difference, if any, between the sum last sepsion under the heading Interest and Sinking Fund and the amount actually paid out by the Treasury for Interest and Sinking Fund for the year ended 31st March last; also for a return showing amount, if any, of the Sinking Fund which has been paid into the Public Works Funds under section 9 of the „ Consolidated Stock Act, 1884." Agreed to. WASTE LANDS BOAEDS. : Dr NEWMAN moved for a return—(l) stating names of members of Waste Lands Boards in colony, with date of appointment; (2) number of attendances of individual members; (3) honorarium received by each; (4) travelling ex- ■ penses allowed by the Land Board to each member; such return to date from Ist January, 1882 to 31st March, 1886. Agreed to. PAYMENTS TO MEMBERS. Mr ■ HOBBS moved for a return showing amounts paid by the Treasury or any other department connected with the Public Service to each member of the Legislative Council and j the House of Representatives for services rendered and otherwise, during the years 1885 and 1886, over and above'the amount of honorarium, together with the names of members and the amount paid in each case where the amount paid has exceeded the amount of honorarium. Agreed to. THE NEW HEBRIDES. j Sir GEORGE GREY moved the resolutions referring to the New Hebrides question which were telegraphed yesterday. He said no more important motion was ever brought forward. An opinion expressed by the New Zealand Parliamen on this question was looked forward to with great interest in every part of the world. He hoped no party feeling would be imported into any debate that might arise. He spoke on the whole question at great length, and said for a long period of years the inhabitants of New Zealand had endeavoured to promote the happiness and well-being of the New Hebrides Islands, and he asked the House to adhere to this manner of helping the islands. He also asked the House to say that while the European nations were striving to get possession of these islands the House should in no way sanction by its approval any attempt made to take posses- | sion of those islands, and would not consent to any foreign power taking that which they had no right themselves to take. As to referring the question to a select committee, he thought he was doing right in not entertaining the idea. It was a question which should be decided with the least possible delay, which would not be effected by a select committee. It was not a right thing to hand over a large body of men to a power which, possibly, they might dislike and would not be content to remain under. No confidential despatch from Lord Granville should influence the House. Lord Granville had approached the question like a trickster. He (Sir G. Grey) thought there was nothing to go to a committee upon. There was but one conclusion that honest men could come to on it. He asked Parliament to do the right thing speedily, and to thiuk of the magnitude of the transaction. He also asked them to considerthat if they allowed the New Hebrides to go was not at all certian that the French would it discontinue the transportation to the islands. Other governments would come into power in France aud would refuse to be bound by previous governments. He believed if the House took the action he advocated they would do justice to large numbers of people and strike a chill in the herts of those European statesmen who were endeavonring to do such a great wrong. Hon. R. STOUT said ho had no desire to approach the question in a party spirit, and was surprised Sir G. Grey, had nob consulted some ether members so as to get something like an

unanimous decision. The hon. gentleman had neither consulted the Government nor the leader of the Opposition,and he contended it was not a proper position for him to take up. He (Mr Stout) said the Government had not been neglectful ill the[inatterof the New Hebrides. Ontuecoutrary, they had been moving in italmost evdr since they took office and had repeatedly pressed on the Home Government the urgent necessity for Britain taking actiou .in the Nuw Hebrides question. lii correspondence also; with the Agent-General, he had urged nd less thaii seven reasons why the New Hebrides should not be given to France. The House must also understand that the arrangement was made between Germany and France that Germany would not stand in the way of France obtaining the New Hebrides. After reading some. correspondence on the matter, he said the position was that the Great Powers of France and Germany had arrahged that France might take the islands and Germany would offer iio opposition. The Government had also pointed out to the Home Governtnent that, if the New Hebrides we're to go they muse have some concession to make up for it. He contended that Sir G. Grey's resolutions could not be sent to the Queen in their present form, because statements made in them were not accurate. As to the confidential despatches referred to by Sir G. Grey, he said there miist be confidential despatches between the Government and the Agent-General; if it were not so the position of Agent-General would be altogether unnecessary. Why, the hon. gentleman himself had spoken of receiving confidential despatches from Victoria on this.question. He would ask the House; Was it desirous for all parties in the House to pass the same resolution on the New Hebrides question ? He thought the better way of dealing with it wovld be by referring it to a select committee, ivh'icH would recommend some resolution which would be agreed te unanimously, and not as in the other case, by probably a narrow majority. He would also ask the House to consider what effect the resolutions moved by Sir G. Grey would have, especially coming from a gentleman who formerly had a personal feud with Earl Granville, and who had referred to Earl Grauville as a trickster (huckster ?). He proposed that instead of the resolutions being adopted, that the following be substituted:— "That a committee be appointed to consider the question of $he action this Colony should pursue on the New Hebrides question ; the committee to consist of Major Atkinson, Sir George Grey, Messrs Montgomery, Macandrew, Moss, Rolleston, Beetham, Sir J. Vogel, and the mover." He would ask the House, if they"were to have auy influence in this matter, to float some resolution that would receive the unanimous support of the HouseV . ... .

Mr DOWNIE STEWART said this question was one in which the people of Dunedin took adeep interest. He considered Sir George Grey was entitled to the thanks of the Colony for the trouble he had taken in the matter. He thought the attitude taken by the Government in the matter was not a proper one, and he thought that under no pretext whatever should New Zealand fldoncede the slightets right to France to obtain possession of the New Hebrides.

Major ATKINSON hoped the debate would not degenerate into a personal matter or party conflict. The question for them to consider was how a unanimous decision could be arrived at. He thought the whole difficulty arose from their refusal to join the federal Council of Australia. If they had been federated the question would never have arisen. He contended there must be some united power in these seas. As to the desire of the Colonies in a question of this nature he confessed he almost despaired of moving the British Govern, ment in the matter. They certainly could not do so unless the Colonies were united. He thought they wanted more information before they dealt with the resolutions, but he wished to say he could never be a party to bartering away the New Hebrides for any other islands in the seas, and looking at the matter as settled for a short time, how could they deal with the question in a proper manner without sufficient inforrnamation. He would like tosee some plan adopted whereby the House could resolve itself into a secret session, whereby they could receive confidential communications.

After several others had spoken, Sir George Grey withdrew his resolutions, and Mr Stout withdrew his amendment on the understanding that the latter would move to-morrow for a committee to consider the whole general relations of New Zealand to the islands of the Pacific, . • \ '. LOST DEBENTURES BILL. Sir J. VOGEL moved the second reading of the Lost Debentures Bill, and briefly explained its provisions.—Agreed to. : , ' : The House rose at 8.20 p.m;