MESSRS REYNOLDS AND WALES, M.H.R.'S, AT THE DRILL-SHED.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 4303, 2 December 1875, Page 2

MESSRS REYNOLDS AND WALES, M.H.R.'S, AT THE DRILL-SHED.

Messrs Reynolds and Wales, M.H.R's for Dunedin, addressed their constituents at the Drill-Shed last evening. His Worship the Mayor occupied the chair.

The Mavok read the advertisement convening the Hon. Mr Reynolds's meeting, and mentioned that this was the twenty-third year Mr Reynolds represented the City of Dunedin, that he (Mr Reynolds) was so well known to them that an introduction on his (the Mayor's) part of Mr Reynolds to them was quite unnecessary. The Hon. Mr W. H. Reynolds said; Your Worship and Gentlemen—l have taken the earliest opportunity at my disposal to invite you to meet me and receive an account of my stewardship. I feel assured that you will grant me a quiet hearing, as you have hitherto invariably done whenever I have addressed you. The hall is not so commodious as I could lmve wished, but I have made the best arrangements which it was in my power to do. The present Parliament, which has lasted for five years, bas been au eventful one for the Colony, and I have no doubt you will agree with me that it has been a highly progressive one. It has also been entirely free from any Native disturbance, a very rare circumstance in the history of New Zealand. During over three years of this Parliament I have held a seat in the Government of the Colony, and I hope when I have finished addressing you yon j will admit that your interests have not suffered { at my hands. Without troubling you with details as to the results of progress made in other parts of the Colony during the present Parliament, I will confine myself to what more particularly affects this Province. During the last five years there have been opened in this Province under the auspices of the Colonial Government 135 miles of railway, aud there are a further 115 miles now under contract aud in course of construction. This will leave breaks on the railways scheduled of 3G miles between Waitaki and Dunedin, of 22 miles between Clutha and Invercargill, and of 18 miles between the Bluff and Kingston, making in all 76 miles yet to be contracted for. These will be i>ut in hand as soon as circumstances permit, and I fully expect that they will be all opened for traffic within about eighteen months. In telegraph extension during the same period 740 miles of wire have been stretched in the Province, 17 additional stations have been opened, and arrangements are now being made (some of the works being in progress or completed) for the construction of liue3 to the Otago Heads, to Outram, and to JKaitangata, which, when completed, will involve the opening of several new stations. Then, again, the connecting of Australia by cable is one of the important undertakings of i the present Parliament. By means of this ' cable we will be brought, within the next six months, into almost immediate communication with Australia, Great Britain, and all other parts of the civilized world. During the present Parliament, we have also introduced (J1,322 immigrants. These immigrants, while increasing the population and wealth of the Colony, will also receive substantial advantages by becoming colonists of New Zealand. Of the number thus intioduced no fewer than 17,9(14 have been landed on the shores of this Province, being nearly one-third, of the whole immigration to the Colony. In postal matter*, the progress has been equally satisfactory. Additional post offices have bew opened throughout the Province during the present Parliameut, numbering no fewer than 57, involving an additional milage of inland mail conveyance of no less than 335 miles; and overland mails now leave daily for Christchurch and Invercargill, as also for most of the important parts of the Province. During this period the postage on Inter colonial letters has been re.duced from 6d to 3d ; on InterprovJncial from 3d to 2*l; and on newspapers Vested a«d fc>£

delivery in the Colony, from Id to id. Like improvements and reductions have also takea place in the P.O. Savings Banks and Money Order offices. Then under the Marine depart* " meat, which to a commercial dty like this has a great bearing upon its prosperity, acd which, is more. particularly under ray charge, I can. point -with no little satisfactfon to no fewer than 13 additional lighthouses throughout the Colony, either erected, sanctioned, at in cotirse'' of construction. Five of these are more particularly • connected with tne interests of this port and city. These are Puysegur Point and Centre Island in Foveaux Strait, Moerakf, Capa Saunders, and Banks Peninsula, on oiir East Coast. I have also had the satisfaction of being able to establish a system of Storm Warnings along our coast, by means of -which many of the casualties to our shipping may be avoided ; also of initiating a system by meano of which masters of vessels, before leaving port, may at a cost of 6d receive, by telegraph information as to the state of the weather at! such, places as Oamaru, Timaru, and other opea roadsteads along our coast.. I. have further been enabled to establish a Naval Training" School for boys at Kohimaraina, and from, which, as also from other kindred institutions . which I hojje shortly to: see; established, I expect the Colony will turn oufe in a short time from 50 to 70 trained youri^ seamen per annum. I hope at rid distant date to see such another school established ■ at, or near, Portobello, in this harbour. From our geographical position, we must of necessity be a great maritime nation, and anything that will tend to foster and advance our shippinguii>terests should receive the utmost attention at the hands of our legislators. I look upon the marine department as second in' importance ia no other under the Government, and without professing to be a prophet, I caii.confidently predict that ere long it will take the lead of every other department. Gentlemen,!* feel * natural pride that I have been instrumental itt conjunction with the able officers in thedepartment, and with the co-operation ~ of my colleagues in the ministry, to so far advance this important interest, and I have the satisfaction of knowing that whenever I may leave the Government, my successor, whoever, he may be, must of necessity carry out efficiently the works commenced by the present Govern- ' inent. The Government, although not given to much talking or speeehinaking, are yet x. working Government. During the last sefeee, • the members of the Opposition left no stone unturned under which they thought they could discover some ground for fault-finding with ouradministration, and if you refer to the reports of the various Select Committees, and also to the pages of Hansard, you will see how utterly they failed to sheet home any of those inuendos so prevalent during tte recess and at the commencement of the session, and which were so freely made, as to the malad* ministration and corrupt practices of the Government. Now, gentlemen, I am goin«- to tread on dangerous ground. You all know that the Press has always the last word, anil that it is not politic to attack it, yet I am goin«to risk the consequence, and state my convict tions that a small portion of the Press has nofe dealt fairly with the Government, nor towards myself in particular. I will just quote one jr* stance as an example of how I have been individually treated. la the Daily Times of the 10th September, lam accused of haviner spoken on the Abolition Bill in Committeeand that I made some absurd reference to the title of the Bill, whiJe the fact is that I nevec opened my mouth on_the occasion in question* Then, on the following day, I am favoured^ with anything but a complimentary leader in reference to the subject of the para^ graph in question. On other occasions words were also put into my mouth by s«o-------tions of the Press which I never uttereeL Some of them ; I can point out to the Editor of the Daily Times if he will take the trouble to call at my office. I would be sorry to think, neither do I believe, thafe these mistakes were intentional; at' the same time, in justice to myself, I am. bound to contradict such statements when made without any foundation whatever. Gentlemen, the late session was an arduous one to the Government; we were attacked at every point, but managed to outlive them aIL I will not take up your time by going over the various; subjects which came under the consideration ©£ the Government, nor the Acts which have become laws, but will confine myself to those=o£ local importance, which more particularly affecfe the interests of the City. Ist, There was the Dunedin Corporation" Borrowing Powers Extension and Debentures Act This Bill was sent me by your Worship, and was taken charge of by MrPyke, under whose care, witii the assistance of Mr Wales and myself, it was piloted through the House of Representatives. 2ticL The Otago University Site Act, which gives a. clear .title of the University Building to the Council of the Otago University. 3rd. The Otago Harbour Board Empowering Act, wbicb together with the endowments secured, will enable the Board to make this harbour second to none in the Colony. 4th. The University of Otago Site Act, which enables the University Council to effect an exchange with the City Corporation of a portion of the Old Cemetery Reserve for a portion of the Old BotanScaE Gardens, and on which the University Council purpose erecting their new building. sth. The Dunedin Waterworks Extension Act, which, allows the Corporation to increase their supply of water to the City. The only public AcC to which I will refer is the Abolition o£ Provinces Act, and on this subject I will require to be somewhat explicit, £»- asmuch as I have been accused by & portion of the Press, and by several correspondents of having done something very awfui and in direct opposition to some supposed pledge which I hail given when I last had the honour of addressing you some twelve montfes ago. Now, I deny most emphatically that I g&ve any such pledge, at the same time, I am bound to admit that from my remarks when I then met you, you would have been perfectly justified in coming to the conclusion that I was opposed to the abolition of, any of the Provinces of this Island. lat once frankly admit that S was so opposed, and had I been asked the direct question at the time, I have not'the slightest doubt but that my answer would have beeis most decidedly in the affirmative. I do not hesitate to saytnat I have still a hankering after Provincial Institutions, and I frankly admit all that Provincialists claim fcr them for the past, and that they have done mucE to advance the interests of the Colony. But gentlemen, the circumstances of the Colony ana the Provinces have materially altered of latet These altered circumstances have convuwed. me, although with regret, that Provincialism: could no longer be maintained. It will be remembered that for the last 10 or 12 years, T.. ; have never failed to predict that the Provincial Institutions, as they existed, must of necessity breakdown; and having this certainty always before me, I for several years did my utmost to secure the establishment of a Province for each Island, with a Federal Government ia Wellington. My endeavours for years to -'frjgf this having fsviled, I have had forced upon me tjhe necessity of agreeingto the Abolitionof the whoiffi My previous political and commercial careerist I think, sufficient proof to many of you that E have not been deficient in perseverance, and that it has never been a fault with me to stop short in my endeavours to encompass any subject which I have undertaken, so long as there existed the slightest chance of carrying my ob-. ject. But, gentlemen, I cannot conceive a; worse fault in an honest representative than to stick too dogmatically to his preconceived opinions after lie is convinced that they can. nolonger be maintained. A representative who does so is sure to place his constituents at a. disadvantage, inasmuch as by neglecting- the possible opportunity of niodifymg the evils he may see ahead, he may be allowing a measure to become law, which by judicious and' per> sistent watching might be passed in a muclk more satisfactory form than it otherwise woulei be. Cannot those gentlemen who profess to be such staunch Proviucialists, and who have nofe failed to find fault with my action during the last session, conceive it possible that, after al^ I have been studying their interests to a mucii greater extent than had I shut my eyes to the fact that Provincial Institutions were doomed 1,, and neglected to use wliat influence I might possess to prevent a measure being passecE much lass favourable to your interests than tiie Abolition Act I have already stated, gentlemen, that when I last addressed you, I was opposed to abolishing the Provinces o£ uhis Island, and more particularly those of Otago and Canterbury. When E found, however, that almost to a mam the members representing the Provinces o£ Westland, Nelson, and Marlborongh, in this Island, and also a very large proportion, of those representing Canterbury and Otago, were resolved to vote for total abolition, and also> that there was a very strong feeling ex* isting among our fellow-colonists in bot&. islands in favour of a more sweeping measure than that contemplated by the resolution of the session of 1874 I say when I found that such was the case I natur> ally turned my attention to the effect such. » measure would have upon you, and after veyy careful consideration I came to the conclusion, that it would be to the interests of Otago a»& Canterbury to fall in with the general aboljiioiE of the Provinces. It is perfectly clear to. me, as it must be also to every unprejudiced jaind. that if all the Provinces were abolished witfe the exception of Otago and Canterbury, tha& those two Provinces would stand the chance o£ faring very badly at the hands of fcbo Central Legislature. There is no use in disguising the fact that if all the rest of the Provinces were consolidated their interests would to a great toetent be antagonistic to those of Otego and Canterbury ; and what through dissensions from within and attacks from without we woult| soon find ourselves receiving but scant justfeft at the hands of the Legislature. When J last addressed you I then stated that "the Provinces of the North Island couia nofc exist as Provinces without eorwiderabj® . asistance from the Colonial chest, and tbafe s the Treasury wss not able any longer . to stand such drains upon it. It also became t patent to me that AVestland, Nejsoa, and. : 3lavlborongb were drifting fofo th§ &«ae jwsfr-

Sion. In some of the Provinces the Colonial 'Treasury has not only had to find funds for the formation .of their, roads and bridges, but also ~io maintain them when formed, the Provinces refusing point-blank to keep them in repair. Funds have also bad to be provided for some ■of their ordinary Provincial Government .expenditure, and yet in the face of this they •could afford to be generous to their friends, ■and vote their- funds for .purposes other, than the pressing necessities of the Province, reversing the proverb, " Be just before you are generous." Now, if stile Provinces are abolished, the surplus of the consolidated revenue, after meeting permanent and other purely Colonial charges, would be distributed under some uniform, system involving a measure of fairness to all parts of .the Colony, a system which, under the hungry Provinces combinations, has not hitherto been the easel My long connection with public affairs enables me to judge what effect the abolition of the Provinces will Lave on your interests, and I can conscientiously say that it is my firm conviction that in supporting the Abolition Act I was studying your interests. lam one of yourselves ; all I •am possessed of is invested ; n the Province, and in studying your interests I iim studying my own. Dunedin has been my home for the last 25 years, and I look forward to it being the home of my children and their descendants; and in the action I have taken ■during the last and previous sessions my sole object has been to fulfil my duty to those who have honoured and trusted me for so many years to watch over their political rights •and interests. Fault has been found with the Government because we did not relegate the ■question of Abolition to the constituencies. Now, we were not at all afraid of doing so, as fay as the constituencies were concerned, but I will tell you who we were afraid of—the Provincial Governments. The danger was that if the Councils had been allowed to meet again with the fact staring them in the face that they were then meeting for the last time, an unpre•enipted Executive, and there are some of these in the Colony, might have got estimates passed far in excess of the probable revenue. Contracts would then have been entered into, and the Colony would, in taking over the Provinces, possibly have found itself committed to sonic ■millions of liabilities, which in all probability would have entailed ruin to the credit of the Colony. Had it not been for these wellgrounded fears, I for one would have preferred deferring the Abolition question until the constituencies had been consulted by means of the .general elections. I put it to you whether it was at all likely that the Government and_ its supporters, in the face of a general election, would have taken what I admit to have been .an extreme course unless they had been convinced that there was a pressing necessity for their doing so, and one which they would defend in presenting themselves before the electors. I have no hesitation in saying that I am satisfied that the ■Government and its supporters were justified in the action they have taken with regard to the Provinces. Now, I must refer shortly to the provisions of the Abolition Act, and how it will affect the various interests of the Colony, and since I left Wellington I have been disappointed to find so very few people thoroughly conversant with the Act. Well, then, it provides that -after the last day of the next session of the Assembly, all the Provinces shall be abolished. ■The present Provinces are to become Provincial districts, within which all laws in force at ; the. time of the abolition are to continue until -altered or repealed by the General Assembly. All property held in trust by the Superintendent will' be then held by the Governor for -the like trusts, and for no other purpose. Educational reserves and property now held by the Superintendent in trust for education are to be vested in and held for the like purposes by the Education Board. Should the services or any of the Provincial officers be dispensed with, they are to receive such sum as they may be entitled to under any agreement with the Province, and in default of any agreement, they are to receive one month's salary for -every year's service. All license fees are to be jjaid to the road boards and municipalities wherein they are raised. All fines and penalties imposed under any sheep Ordinance, or under any bye laws of anyroad board or municipality, ■are to be paid to the road board or municipality whose laws have been infringed. Goldfields revenue is. in the first instance, to be applicable to defraying the expenses of administration of the goldfields, and the balance to become local rates, and to be paid over to local governing bodies. A separate account is to be kept in each Provincial district of all land revenue, including pastoral rents. This land revenue is to be applied in terms of the Compact of 185(3. 1. In payment of interest and sinking fund on all Provincial loans and liabilities. Now, I have heard it argued that hitherto this interest has been paid out of the capitation grant, and that it is not in terms of the Compact of 185G to make the interest a charge against the land revenue. Those -,vho argue so either do so in utter ignorance of the law, or •otherwise with a view to mislead. Our Pro.vincial loans were raised in anticipation of our land revenue, and to be applied for purposes for which the land revenue was applicable—

namely, public works, immigation, and education. The interest is, therefore, by law fairly a charge against the land revenue, and the same equally applies to moneys borrowed by the Colony for the construction of railways, and which by law, the interest was made chargeable against the land revenue. 1. The land revenue is chargeable with the cost of surveys and' administration, which the most rabid Provincialist cannot object to. 3. With annual subsidies of pound for every pound raised by Road Boards and River Conservators ; and the residue is to be applied by local governing bodies in the construction and maintenance of public works within the Provincial district. The Act also provides for annual payments being made out of tne Consolidated or Colonial Revenue of subsidies to Road Boards and municipalities, of pound tor pound raised under a rate not exceeding Is in the pound of the annual value. Thus, the Dunedin Corporation will be entitled, under the Act, to receive no less a sum than LD352 9s, in addition to all license fees, as also all the fines and penalties imposed under the Corporation Bye laws. jSTo such liberality to this city has ever yet been manifested by your Provincial Council. I would remind you of the time the Province raised a loan of half a million for Immigration and Public Works. I was then a member of the Provincial Executive, and by the dint of perseverance, and a little bullying of my colleagues, I got a sum of L3f>,ooo out of tin* loan placed upon the Estimates for Public Works in the City. Well, when the Estimates were under consideration, the Council, in its liberality inserted the words "a? a loan to the City of Dunediu" before the £:>r>,ooo, and to bear interest. It was passed in this way, but I warned the Council that so long as I could raise my voice I would advise the City authorities neither to pay a single penny of interest,, nor for [less the principal; and in this repect I must give the City authorities credit for being sensible men, for they took my advice, and ignored the prefix of the word loan — thus repudiating the payment of either principal or interest. It was not until the Hon. Sir J. Vogel was Provincial Treasurer that this loan, after a most animated opposition by several members of the Provincial Council,

was wiped off as a bad debt. The Act pro--vides that all costs of Gaols, Harbours, Hospitals, Lunatic Asylums, Charitable Institutions, Museums, Public Libraries, and of Education, shall be borne on tire consolidated revenue, where such costs are not otherwise provided for. Such are the main provisions of the Act; and yet we now ccme to the question continually asked—What are we to get in exchange for Provincial institutions ? _ My answer is—The provisions of the Abolition Act; -all it takes away from us is our Provincial lagis•lation—eur Provincial Councils and Executives

—and iv their place it is proposed to substitute ample powers of local self government, local expenditure, and local control, to be Tested in Municipal Councils, Shire Councils, and Road Boards. In framing the Ivocal Government Bill presented to Pariliament last session it must be borne in

mind that the Government had no option but

to prepare a merely tentative measure—one " which would harmonise with the various Road Boards Acts and Ordinances in the different Provinces, and which could be improved upon by further legislation next session. Had the Government prepared a more elaborate Bill the chances are that had it become law it would have thrown the_ Road Boards' machinery in some of the Provinces out of gear, and made it quite unworkable. We therefore thought it advisable to study simplicity in framing the Bill, and thus secure its adaptability to all parts of the Colony. Any honest and impartial critic of the Local Government Bill, taken in connection with the Abolition Act, must have come to the conclusion that they were intended to initiate a complete system of local selfgovernment ; and I am prepared to give the most emphatic denial to the statements which have been so freely circulated that the Government ever had or have now the remotest intention of centralising the administration of the affairs of the Colony in Wellington. I now come ■to the question of the general elections. There liae been no lack of abuse given as to the

class of representatives the constituencies should return to the next Parliament. The constituencies are advised by some to elect

representatives who will endeavour to resuscitate Provincial institutions, as they at present •exist. I have no hesitation in saying that if Any such are elected all their attempts will be futile. The Provinces are abolished, and can never again be resuscitated. You may therefore dismiss this claes of representatives. Others advise the election of representatives •who will advocate the establishment of -two Provinces for each Island. Such a proposition to my mind is quite untenable, inasmuch as Canterbury, Nelson, M nil borough, and West land, as also all the Provinces in the North Island, excepting possiMy Auckland, would never consent to any such arrangement. Then again there is another proposition to return representatives who will be satisfied with nothing less than a Province for each Island, and a,"Federal Government. Now, this latter

proposition is to my mind the most reasonable of the three, but I hold it is not feasible. I feel pretty certain that such a measure cannot be carried in the next Parliament, even if Otago were to re? turn all its repsesentatives pledged to use every effort to this end. I hold that few, if any, have had a better opportunity of forming a correct opinion on this question than my«elf. For years I have made the subject of two Provinces a regular study, and nsver failed, on every reasonable occasion, to bring my views before the electors and the Parliament. In the session ot 1870 I brought forward in the House of Representatives the following resolutions : —

1. That with a view to secure a more satisfactory system of Government for the Colony, it is desirable that the present Provincial boundaries be abolished, and that the Colony be divided into two Provinces, one compris'n<r the whole of the North Island, and the other the Middle and Stewart Islands.

2. That the legislation and administration of the Colonial Government be confined to the Judicial, Postal, and Customs Departments and to the consolidated debt of the Colony, and tii.it all other legislative powers be transferred to the two Provincial Legislatures.

3. That all moneys, from whatever source collected, be the revenue of the Province in which it was raised, subject, however, after deducting the Provincial charges to a specified capitation charge for the maintenance of the Colonial Government, and also for providing the interest and sinking funds on the Colonial debt.

4. That the whole of the rovennen of the two Provinces be payable to the Colonial Treasurer, who, after deducting the Provincial cVuvycsand the specified Provincial contributions, shall pay over the respective balances to the Treasurer of each Province.

Again, in the session of 1872, in combination with several very influential members of the House, I introduced the following resolution: —

That, in order to provide for the Colonial Legis lature dealing only wijh subjects of colonial imixirtancc. and to secure etiielcut and economical iidiuinistration of the jfovernmerit itf the Colony, the existing--I'rovinues should be abolished and two Provinces constituted, one for the Ntirth Island and one for the Southern Islands, witii a. Centra! Government dealing- with matters to bo agreed on of purely colonial concern ; and that an equitable adjustment of the annual charge arisincr out of the burdens of the Colony be made. Further, tliat a. Lill to give effect to this resolution be introduced during the present session.

To this resolution I had the promise of the support of a. majority of the House, but the moment we went into the consideration of details, I found there was no chance of securingl anything like unanimity in our party, and that no satisfactory agreement could be arrived at. The same difficulty as to the details of any such measure exist at the present time even to a giea+er degree. Will any honest politician tell me that there is the slightest chance of a satisfactory arrangement to this Province being entered into with the concurrence of the distinguished visitors whom you so lately honoured v.'ith a banquet. Ijisten to what their leader, Sir George Grey stated in addressing the electors of Auckland while he was referring to some remarks which had been previously made by Sir Julius Yogel ns to the dishonesty of interfering v.'ith the Compact of 1850 and of laying hands on the land revenue. I quote from a printed pamphlet which was revised by Sir George Grey himself, and which purports to be his speech delivered on the '22nd March last. He says : —

You worn then told that anybody who called in question the Compact of '50 reyardinjr the land fund was a dishonest man—that it would be a dishonest transaction to do so. Well, I thought to myself that 1 would be one dishonest man, and do that dishonest thinsr Ihe first thing to be done was to Eec if no one would stand forward and speak ir men were to be cowed by expressions of this kind foiling from such hijrh suMiority- and if no one else would, then I said to myself I would stand forward and speak—l would come forth and sec if anybody would stand bj* me.

Such, gentlemen, were the expressed sentiments m March last of Sir George Grey, the recognised leader of the Separationist party; and it would take an angel from Heaven to convince jue that he has now changed his views on this point. Then, again, almost the wholj of the Auckland people havebeen tutored to hold similar opinions, and no doubt will endeavour to return members to the next Parliament pledged to break the Compact of _185(>, and on these terms, and on no other*, will they agree to two Provinces. These views are not only held in Auckland : they are also largely sympathised in by the people of the Provinces of Taranaki, Hiiwkes Bay, Marlborongh, Nelson, and Westland. Now, let us for a moment consider the position of Wellington with regard to the proposition of two Provinces, and what will we find ; why, that every man and woman, including Mr Fitzherbert. the Superintendent, would oppose it to the uttermost. Now, I put it to you, in the face of such odds, what chance there is of Otago .and Canterbury securing the division of the Islands into two Provinces, with a Federal Government in Wellington, even if we were to admit that tlie.se tu'J Provinces were united in such a scheme, which they certainly are not. Many of the members who will be returned to represent constituencies in Canterbury and Otago would rather sacrifice the land revenue than further the establishment of a Province for each Island. Such being the case, my advice to the electors is to secure honest representatives, men who have no axe to grind, and who are possessed of good, sound, practical judgment, capable of bringing their energies to bear upon all the important measures which will come before the next Parliament ; men who will see that justice is done to all ports of tlw Colony alike, and that the revenues are expended under some uniform system. Your representatives should also be chosen with a view to the protection of your land revenue and to secure proper administration of the lands, not only of this Province, but of the Colony. The day has passed away for the Legislature to allow this important question to be settled by cliques. What the Colony requires is an increasing and prosperous population, and this can only be secured by granting every possible facility for settlement on the waste lands. Your representatives ought therefore to be men of liberal views on this question of questions, for you may depend upon it that this will have a far greater influence on the future prosperity of the Colony than any other. It therefore behoves the electors to see well to it in selecting their representatives. In other respects, let them lie men of judgment, who in their private transactions in life have merited the respect of their fellow Colonists, and who from their interests being identical with those of their constituents, and having no purely personal object to serve, will devote their energies towards securing the general good of the Colonists. I say, elect such meu as your representatives, and I have no fear but that any constitutional changes will receive due consideration at their hands, and as far as they cau be, they will be so moulded as to work in harmony with your interests. Gentlemen, I have only further to add, that I intend offering my Her vices again to represent you, and if you honour me again with your support, and return me ay you have so often done, you will always find me at my post watching over your interests. I will now be happy to answer any questions on which you may rcqu'rd further information.

Mr M'Laken : Why did you stop the Porto - hello railway ? Mr Reynolds: I did not. I was asked whether the General Government would lend or sell rails to the Peninsula Railway Company. I saw no difficulty, and replied in the affirmative. When I got to Wellington, I found the Government had no power to do so. The Government, however, took it upon themselves to giant the request, trusting to an indemnity from Parliament, but it was afterwards found that the Company had no Act.

Mr I'IAHN'K.s: Otago contributes the largest share of the Consolidated Revenue, and what will she gain by Abolition '!

Mr Reynolds : She will gain in proportion to her population, like every other part of the Colony.

In answer to another question, Mr Reynolds replied that the Government were not respon sible for raising the i>rice of land under the deferred payments system. The Government could have vetoed the Bill, but that would be very objectionable to the Superintendent and Provincial Executive, and most injurious to the interests of the Province.

The following questions were acked by gentlemeu whose names were unknown to the reporters :—

How many thousands a year will the Province of Otago gain by Abolition '! Mr Reynolds : It would be impossible for me to answer that question, but 1 know the revenue would be more fairly and equally distributed if we had no Provincial combinations. We will be benefited as compared with our present position, but I cannot tell you to what extent, because that will depend upon circumstances.

If you are not prepared to say to what extent we will be benefited, how do you know we will be benefited at all ?

Mr Reynolds : Because if the Provinces arc not abolished, the consolidated revenue will go to keep up those hungry Provinces, and none of it, or a very small proportion of it, will be expended in the Provinces that are not needy.

Mr Sligo : You say that if the Provinces are not abolished the hungry Provinces will drain us dry : but if the Provinces are abolished, who will the hungry Provincial districts then drain dry. Mr Reynolds : When the Provinces are abolished, each representative of the electoral district will look out that the revenues are fairly expended throughout the whole Colony, so that each district will get a fair proportion of tue public funds, if there are .any to expend. —(Laughter.) If there are no Provincial combinations, the hungry Provinces would have to put their hands in their own pockets, as we do, to maintain their roads and bridges. Mr Sligo : Where are the endowments to the hungry Provinces to come from ?

Mr Reynolds : The money is to come from consolidated revenue. —(Laughter.) The Government saw their way perfectly clear in making their propositions to provide the money required from the consolidated ievenue.

c Mr Langlands : Do you not think that a great constitutional change, such as the Abolition of the Provinces involves, should be submitted to the people ?

Mr Reynolds : I Lave already stated ray reasons for the vote I pave, and I consider my conduct was fully justified.

Mr Laxglands : You said you did so in

order to prevent the Provincial Councils from doing mischief. Do you not think that - was doing a great political -wrong to prevent a possible political evil ? Mr Reynolds : I considered that it was my duty first of all to protect the Colonial credit, and I thought it was necessary to take the course I did to protect the Colonial credit.—(Groans.) Mr Slestnger : What is the annual cost of the Provincial Council to the Province ?

Mr Reynolds :It varies considerably. I think that the Provincial Council, together with the Executive, during last session cost somewhere like L 12,00"0 or L 13,000, although I cannot be certain. I cannot say positively what the cost of the Provincial Council is, because it varies so much; but I would say that during last session it cost xiossibly Lr>,ooo or 1 6.000. Mr Lan<; lands: You stated that you were afraid the Provincial Councils, if they met, would pass heavy appropriations and commit the General Government to the payment of them. Has the General Government no control over the Appropriation Bills of the Provincial Councils, and could they not have disallowed such appropriations as you refer to ? Mr Reynolds : The General Government have never disallowed the Appropriation Ordinances of the Provinces, because such a step would throw all the machinery of the Pi-ovinees out of gear. The salaries of the officials and of the police could not be- paid, and in fact the Provincial Governments would have to set their prisoners looke. Then there is another thing. The Colonial Government are not sup posed to know exactly what the anticipated revenue of the Province will be.

Mr J. G. S. Grant : You said that, had the question been imt to you distinctly last year, respecting the abolition of the Provinces of Canterbury and Otago, you would have replied that you were not in favour of such a step. Ts your memory so short that you forget that on tliis particular question I catechised you most strictly, and asked you, " In the event of the Provinces of Canterbury and Otago beingswei.>t away along with the Provinces of the North Island, and Marlborough, and Nelson, and Westland, would you support such a. measure ?" and did you not reply that you would have no connection with any Ministry that would sanction such tyranny ? —(Applause.) Mr Reynolds : I am prepared to say I did not make use of such an answer. —(Oh.) I remember a question being put with regard to the land fund, but not with regard to the South Island Provinces. But it does not matter whether I said so or not. —(Oh, oh.) lam ouite prepared to say that, if I had been asked the question, I would have said at that time that T was not in favour of abolishing the South Island Provinces.

Mr G it ant : Do you think there is any truth in the statements of the Provincialists that the same number of officials will have to be employed even after Abolition ? Mr Reynolds : I should hope not. I think tho Government would be very faulty if it allowed the same number of officials to be employed by one Government that is now employed by two. Mr Grant : What is the annual appropriation for the New Zealand University?

Mr Reynolds: I think it is £3000 for this year. I cannot say where the New Zealand University may be said to reside.

Mr Gnant: Do you think it is possible to govern satisfactorily these islands, which are some 12H0 miles in length, from that village called Wellington ? Mr Reynolds : I think that it is not only possible, but that the Colony is certain to be properly governed, no matter where the seat of Government may be, provided there is local self-government. All you want is that the General Assembly should pass laws, and that the administration of those laws should be carried out in all the various districts;

Mr Grant : Do you think it is possible, after you abolish Provincial Legislatures, to retain large reserves for educational purposes in Otago, while the inhabitants of Auckland have to be rated iv order to provide elementary education ?

Mr Reynolds : I think the Colony should see that all their children should be educated. Mr Grant : Then would you distribute our educational funds throughout the length and breadth of the whole island ?

Mr Reynolds : No, because some of the Provinces have a rate.

Mr Grant : But why should one portion of the Colony raise a rate while we enjoy reserves ?

Mr Reynolds : We have been careful and laid by certain reserves for the benefit of education, whereas those other Provinces have not done so. Is it right that those Provinces should now come in and share the reserves we have made ?

Mr Ghant : No doubt, so long as we have separate Legislatures, you can retain your reserves, but it will be different now when you have got one Legislature and a united Colony. Mr Rkyxolos : The Abolition Act makes it perfectly clear that the Assembly has to provide education for the whole GSlony, subject to such laws as at present exist. Mr G rant : You said distinctly that the Provincial legislatures were abolished and could not be resuscitated. Do you think Sir George Grey spoke uuadvisedly when he said that if a majority of the representatives were returned in favour of Provincialism the decision of last session may be reversed, and a new Parliament may repeal this obnoxious measure ? —(Applause.)

Mr .Reynolds : I have simply to say that of course if there is a majority of members hi favour of reverting to the old system they can do so, but I say there is not the slightest chance of there ever be'ng such a majority. lam certain there will not be twenty members returned in favour of such a policy.

Mr Laxoi.axds : It is clear that you gave your constituents to understand last year that you were decidedly opposeu to the abolition of Otago and Canterbury. Did you not think it was your duty when you changed that opinion to resign your office and go before your con stituents ?—(Loud applause.)

Mr Kkvnolds : I did not think that I would be justified in doing anything of the kind. — (Oh, oh.) I considered it was my duty rather to do the best I could for my constituents, and not to leave them without a representative to look after their interests.

Mr M'lnpoe : Are yon prepared to carry on Constitutional changes so far as the Upper House, .and if so, to what extent?

Mr Reynolds : I am not prepared to provide a Constitution for the Upper House at the pre sent time. lam quite in favour of some alteration being made in the Constitution of the Council, but I am not prepared to submit an elaborate scheme just now. I would not like to see the Upper House an elective body.— (Groans.) If it were an elective body it would produce continual deadlocks with the House of Representatives. My impression is that the Council should be nominated from members of the Lower House, and that when a measure lias passed the Lower House two or three times the Upper House should be bound to agree to it.

Mr Uhe : Did not the Colonial Treasurer, before the close of the session, admit that he made a mistake in saying a saving would be effected by doing away with Provincial Insti - tutions ?

. Mr JiEYXOLDS : I am not aware whether he said so or not. I cannot call it to mind, but as you say the statement appears in Hansard, I will take your word for it.

Mr J. P. Aiimsthonc : You have £iven us the cost of the Provincial Government; can you tell us what is the cost of the General Government?

Mr Reynolds : I do not know that I can do that. I have no estimates or calculations as to the exact expense of one or the other. I will be most happy to give you the information to-morrow.

Mr K. Ramsay : What particular Provincial Executive did you refer to when you said you were afraid of allowing Provincial Councils to meet ?

Mr Reynolds : I do not think it is a plea sant thing to answer such a question.

Mr Ramsay : What reason have the Government for supposing that Provincial Executives would be guilty of what would be nothing less than a crime ?

Mr Reynolds : I can state a case in point. After the Abolition resolutions were carried in 1874, the Colonial Government had to step in and prevent some Provincial Governments from making ducks and drakes of the Colonial estate. That fact has been patent through the Press.

Mr Ramsay : If the Government were in a position to step in before could they not step in

again ? Mr Reynolds : That is all very well, but it is quite possible that you might not have an opportunity of doing it, and very likely would not. Any unprincipled Executive might take action which the Colonial Government could not stop.

Mr Hooper : When the Abolition Bill was introduced, you should have satisfied yourself that your constituents were in favour of the measure. Might I ask how you came by that opir.ion ?

Mr Reynolds : I came by that opinion by judging the opinions of some of my consti tuents. Of course, it was a guess of my own, but I satisfied myself that such was the case.

Mr Hooper : Is it fair that the profits of the Otago railways should be taken to pay the expenses of non-paying Northern railways, and did you not propose such a course ?

Mr Reynolds : I do not remember exactly the words I made use of in the House, but I will explain what I meant. If there is a main line of railway running, say, from the Bluff to Picton, it would be very difficult to tell which portion of the line pays and which portion does not pr>y. If there is a loss on one. portion of the line, the profits should be taken from other portions to make up that loss:. That was unmeaning, whatever I may have he<rn reported t<> have said.

Mr Hoopeu : Were you not the first member of the Assembly who proposed that the profits in paying lines should go to make up the deficiency in non-paying lines?

Mr Reynolds : If I mistake not, I got up as;

one of the members of the Government, and made the statement in reply, to some.question. Mr Guey : You said last year thafeyfttf were not in favour of politicians being appointed to Government posts. - Were you not favourable to the appointment Of Judge Gillies? Mr Reynolds':" I was a party to the appointment of Judge Gillies," but there are certain cases where you cannot possibly avoid ap pointing politicians to Government posts. I hold that Mr T. B. Gillies was the best man we could secure for the position, and, under those circumstances. I think we did perfectly right to appoint him. As a rule, I flm thoroughly opposed to taking men out of the Legislature to fill political offices. The Government did not give Mr Gillies the appointment because he was an opponent. It would have been t« their interest to have kept him in the Legislature as an opponent. Mr Grant, in an ironical speech, proposed —" That the Hon. Mr Reynolds, having represented this city for 22 years, has a prescriptive and a presumptive right to the confidence of the intelligent electors of Dnnedin." Some difficulty was experienced in finding a seconder for this resolution. It was asserted by some that MrM'-Laren had seconded it, but that gentleman denied having done so. Ultimately it was seconded by Mr Renwick. Mr Caukick moved as an amendment — " That, while the meeting thanks Mr Reynolds for his address, it regrets that, as a member of the Government, he hurriedly passed the Abolition Bill without first taking the opinion of the electors."

Mr Bakxes seconded the amendment.

Mr UitE moved, and Mr Axdehhojj seconded, as a further amendment—" That this meeting thanks Mr Reynolds for his address."

The Ciiaikman ruled Mr Grant's motion to beoutof order.

Mr TJre's amendment was negatived, and Mr Carrick's motion was carried by a very large majority.

After some explanations from Mr Wales, A vote of thanks to the chairman concluded the proceedings.