PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 558, 1 October 1863, Page 5

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

< TUESDAY, 29th 'SEPTEMBER, ' . _.. y ::^ j.s.trppLy.

BANK RESOLUTION!?. On the motion of:!the PROVINCIAL SECRE-; TARY, the House wentintoCommittee of Supply. Mr"H A RDY rose 'to move'the resolutions, 'of which he bad given*notice, .j'That the correspondence! "between the Government and the Union Bankjand between the (Government .and the Bank of New Zealand, be taken^ihto consideration with a view to moving the following resolutions :-r- j "Ist. Tliat iFis'expedient tli'it the Banking business of the Provincial Government, as previously resolved by the Provincif Council, Ye let in the Usual J mamier'iby; tender.;; ■; xfifii "fi- -ifi - Committee, no further issue and s'ale-'6fß ner-ceut or other Debentures s-sliouldi be -made .iwithoiit:oanu expression of '•opihiori-by the-Council as to the mode of their being placed upon-thejnarkef.?'j: ;;■■•: ■■■■Y -AficfiA Cy.:-■;-■? j ....■ On first takihg up the question he had stated jthat . his.motiye -in. .doing- so waa^thaf'he thought it the ; duty, of the. Executive..of; the,day.;to.;paydue respectto ii-e opinions of the Provincial Cpuidcil/in reference to anything pn which : their fishes had been expressed;..: .On reference,, to; the books of fthe. Council, he found that a contract had been entered into with the Union - Bank,-whi('h had -been terminated -by an Acit of the (Government,^and .her .Considered that they had hardly-1 beeni justified in doing so. \ He' found,that the resolution: in .session 13 was^to; the"! following-'(effect:l—Mr" Heynoldsi-according to notice;- moved-: -'iThat:the-Government account be kept-- with' the said BahkingJGompany;'-' Mr-.; Dick moved-that the Government be recommended to' cab ' ; i'dr^tenders on specified terms on which advances can the-Government,.and-valsa^stating, what interest shall be charged for cash "on" hand, jMr Reynolds withdrewiliis motion in favor of Mr Dick".'" The^amendmj!n.tjwa3_put, tibe_Cpundljdiyided,_an:d he v was happy to find on that : cccasion T the,tel!er was Mr ' K,eynolds, >who'"votfd^for what he (Mr Hardy) be- -..■ .Keyed to be;a.cprrectrprinciple ai^tbat,-time., and Stbat he'still believ'ed'to'bSa' cbn'6ct lprincipie*.* ' 'He also on tbit occasion found'Mir Dick,-,-Mr kilgour, and Mr Giliie's*"affirmi'ng'the correctness'of the principle,! and .Mr ; Pateijspn: follpwed. on.the.same^side,. Jt there- - 'fpi'e'b.ecanie .thn^ .i.nentf were'justified. in pitting 'ah-end-tothat'cohtraet ""It'migKt possibly; be ;said .th^tgr^sit' advantages were--7 gained by r ;tra:h,sfer¥ing;th'e account, but on referring ;-toth'e'CrctzeWe-'of'thatdate-hefound-thatthe-Govera-; : mentrii'icp'nsented ;,-.tov'thej rt^rms proposed5 by the Bank to advance .LEp, o^oo at 6"per cent interest, fi. wbi.Chby :a,subs?quent, c. rrespond.encei^a3T increased to 1.50,000 at tbe samerate of^interest^-^Tbejpresent- .;*:', rate.wasi'^iser^cewt;, ;.as a temp jr'ary"arfangemeht, r:in which therefore, he could see noi.gaitt.v, -He also' saw .that interest -to tbe-Governmeht'-bh-depositiwouid be Ah. p£r,,cent v ',oii;.the;minimum -monthly, balance] instead of on the daily L b'alanc^ "Now the daily balance,.and jtheiminimum monthly, balance might he , t Pi ro.differeoli;S)ains. * ,-As','to, whether "the, Government werefjustifiedoin.-remoring. the account, honorable members haying 't,he..correspondence "iti their ."hands would'be;-;able to follow They would see it statedthat :'£'D«bentureS;.;to r,thp,-amount, named iv yourJefctcr on the terms^oh propose^*; OJaXi the; sth of May, was a "letter 'consenting, ? on-'^thei' part -'of the) Bank, to stake -those'Debentures^onfthe^vconditipns?,named. There was therefore a promise "madfcby^tl»o;-Government, add accepted oi the part of the B ink. Yet three months> afterwards the Bank authorities complained of its not having been fulfilled, notwithstanding the overdraft- hadrgone-up. to :Llo7iooo..^He thought Konorable"meihbers,-w^.ujd agree' with him, that so r for, .nothing bad been1 done on'-.jthe. part ,of! the Bank to justify the'action, taken by ths Government. ;Oh the 7th Augus^ for it Was 'specifically/stated' Jtbe: deberitures'shauld' he in the bankVpoEsessionrfor transmjssionx%y the Omeo's mail. . Yet referring.to the letter of tfre 16th August, ;■". it would he foiini that'tliat promise was not fulfilled in tini;e,'attd. in fact, instead of L 50.000 having been ■;.., -deposited there had beeh oa\fil£9,Qobfiievtx thousand of whicHweK! rendered useless on ."account bf their being incomplete. On 'the* 2lst! August would be found a letter from the Government, in which the vwds occurred, "I hate m alternative but that of

he requesting you to forward to the Provincial Treat,d' thf» r„d^ atf ment of acc-ounts Whiob I will instruct, fe £*m ♦ examm?- Tb.e ascertained balance will • «?J£s fit >0U *'v sooa bS the Government have coihP'etea other-arrangements consequent upon-your re,ie' witl, M°/r tulUe the responsibility of supplying it '>c on tha busiia <-hprA«n'V°-Untry- * "PPeared up to that time n™w ; c*" no desire°n the part of the Union i as uanfct) terminate the contiact made with the Goa- M? m» enf 22nd August/the Manager of i.» K2 • exP°3tulated with the Government in a ie letter reviewing the circumstances whicli ha.l occurred [n pointing _ out that tHere had" not only been [r every desire on the part of the Bank to t.eat the 0 SITSW liberality, "6urtb.it 'the Manager,U, on .behalf ot the Rank, was still prepared to treat with 1 the Government in the same liberal spirit which had g _ hitherto characterise i their proceedings, and expresslog a Hope that the misunderstanding would be 7 spoedily arranged. There was therefore evidently no ' > desi c on the part of the Bank to put an etid to the ls contract, and more liberal conduct cou'd not have been disp ayed. But it led to no result, for the hext letter informed them that" a demand" had been 0 mid-i ou the part ot ti-e Bank that the Customs <j Revenue of tbe Province ihould be mortgaged. lor the purpose of covering further advances. On reference: to the 3rd paragraph on tlie second column on page 7, that statement would, be found confirmed.. It c affirmed that Mr Cowie-called'at the Provincial n Treasury with a cheque for L 450, which he stated would*, not Gbe paid unless the would y assign the prospective revenue as a security. Tbe i. reasons given, therefore, for the Govern j met.t closing the account with the' Union Bank. appeared to be two—first that the Bank s refused 'payment' of"' the" cheque" 'for L 450, f and.secondly-.the request that the Uustoms Revenue ' , should be'Mo tgaged as security for the ' over draft. - But in page eight it was found the represent .tive of the Ba ik suggested that on the mouth's revenue ] 3 being paid as usual into the bank, he would go on i paying up to Ll50,000: It appeared therefore that f* the B-ink asked nothing unreasonable, an I offered oa 1 the condition stated to allow the over draft to be in- s • creased L j 0,000. The manager also affirmed that he 1 had not. refused to pay the cheque, nor .dishonored 1 anything presented on G/vernm nt account Those 1 two statements had not been reported anil the cor- 1 jespondence placed before the House, failed to justify i the Government in closing the previous account; or 5 to show that the'Bankfkad been illiberal in its con- 1 duct, and even supposing a change had been nee - jsary t he contended that with the. recorded opinion ot tne < House to guide them, to which he adu led on first 1 moving.those resolutions, the account should have 1 beeu let by tender. He brought no charge against < any person, nor againstnuy body of men, but in his c • opinion it was wrong in the Executive to a disqbey,the,deliberate instructions of that Council in 5 transactions-of-that Tney had not been 1 acted upon, an account had been opened with another t Bank/and to it hid been committed the task of ar- 1 ranging with the Money Market the sale of the de- r bentures issued by authority, of that Council. He was a doubtful whether any advantages would result from 1 the change, but, he would call the attention of the d committee to the fact that during the last session the t honorable member for the.North Harbor carried a re- b solution to the effect that ths committee were of d opinion that it would be most expedient to entrust to c a London House of high standing and respectability b the monetary transactions connected with the whole b ofthe Otago Debentures. In consequence, he be- it lieved steps had been taken to establish relations with tl a London house for:tKe sale of those debentures, and a letters had been needed from the colonial agents an- fi nouncing that'they wereln treaty to cai'ry^oufc the in- v structions given in consequence of that motion. He h would only, in conclusion, 'call the attention of the ri committee to the resolutions he had laid before them, h and trusted they would'receive due consideration at I the hands of honorable members. n Mr VOGEL was Quite aware tbat Bank Managers a were not regarded with popular favor, for as a rule, d when, £ person wished to find, his" banker ir, food b humor, he was the reverse. It was" therefore a pri- k vilege- that-fell -to the lofrof-few to "-cheek J- a Bank B Manager, and it was an achievement the record d of which might b» handed down from generation to *" generation of his Honor, the Superintendent's *« family, that he had had the opportunity of doing so. °' .On reading the correspondence placed before honor- b able members ;. it would, be plain that the Manager P of the Union Bank had been subjected to a system of v: badgering. It was a serious questions whether the c* Province could aSord to indulge in such an expensive a' 'amusement, for although -it might afford sport to the tl Superintendent, it might cost the Province very dear. T It was to be feared that when the account of these hi transactions reached home 4 it would not facilitate the w sale of the debentures,' and that would be a heavy 3H price to pay for it , With the leave of the House he pi would iim through the correspondence as he ™ 1 would bej ; able ,to . show^ that throughout there had 'been a tis'aue J of evasion, and B tyranny. In thsg first letter of the 18th of April ar bis Honor wrote to the Bank, to the effccl th*t it was to necessary to propose a temporary arrangement for the to supply of funds for carrying on the Government until- (* he could '/surround" himself with a responsible of Executive. It was neceessary, however, to consider wthat paragraph of the letter wifch the one that foi- w lowed, for the purpose of showing that the anange- to ment was to be only temporary,; ahd that the Bank th was justified in asking for something more definite. Ci Then,'.iii' the lastfapara-a-apbi it Iwas .'stated.* that it be would be necessary^ on, the next meeting of the new W1 Provincial CouncU rfhat:tKat body should be asked for .'*•> an ActjOf,lndemnity, under which : the Bank would w receiVe'tfrotectiphjfpr its advance^:'" 'BiiVso'faifrom .— .that having;be'eti'done during the past meetings ofthe he Council; it riotfonlyhad n6t.'.beend6he,buthe-believed h"1 there was.no _ intention of t doing it.. Parsing .on to r^ the next'lett'eV? from the manager rof* the Htiibn'Bank, th dated April K 2ls^ jn; which he intimates,his;wiUihgness to allow an overdraft of LIO,OOO above ttie' sti- th pulated"aniount^-;^*Thae-letter:rem"iihedTnine-:'day^ •'% unanjiwered.^ ,and,..tben intimation was.given that in sa the "previous fortnight there had been kn "overdraft of th L 16,000, or LQQaOift'-ex^ess ofthe Llo,oooprescribed ut and that during that month I^May) it was probable if the Government expenditure-would •be'L r35,000, cwhile- -ca the estiraatedrevehue?wouldnot.exceed.Llß,ooo, and- th .that, June, July,,and August might, , give approxi-'T tv mately'similar '-"returns. lj That 1 was*- the only rough o f statement.-giventasito .theuprol>able;:requirements of fit the Provincial Government; and it would also be th seen how the result falsified it. Writing on the!lst*: of-May,-it'was stated rthat'Dehe'ritures Atb the amount jn of -.L30,0G.0. could;, be placed..with the Bank at once"; T 'be something like three inbhths" afterwards it came out T e th'atiexceßsiye atixiety,ofvmin;l,consequent-, upon the. , w j Minis i erial crisis rendered :Yt" 'impossible for thte ; -jt Superintendent r Jta sign, the 0 Debentures promised' :asi tbrep, months, before.' After..such""'an "interval, :rf-: ti would be found-byletterNo'S: tbat'the Bank Mahay-1 'jfl ger naturally became anx'oui for something more- th definite thauhe bad. previously received.'. .He called": .fu "att^ntito1 to 'tlns*'iarge ;iOverdrafc-''of {Llo7,(Joo, and' ']U asked'for the Provincial Debentures. ■■.-.fi He received a reply staling it would be impossible to sign them iti ? iJ time for transiaission by tbe Omeo.""He also asked; 'fia, wbat were likely to be the Government requirement*, in .The;replyr ): *datedithe 7th August, he (il r ;Vogel)-would be take upon him to say,"' would* be considered By the »; BanksManagerr'a-iproinise- orr. which 'he could rely fe and he woul.tjbe annoyed and surpiised that it \rax " ■■« not keptT-On the--lSth*~Au|ust7*inste-s-d-6f-*LSO 000" "in only. L 29.000 in Debentures..were placed in the hands hi of the Bank; part or those beitig* imperfect aud with- f 0 out those instructions which would make them, tin available to the Bank. Onthe 22ndAugust,«is; ~of ■ Honqr;- took v .up a,different, s position. and began to +„ showth3 vßank 'Manager'the csld~sh6iilder. He xfi insinuated- that the Manager had some political ?h object m view ia desiring to place the Govern- m ment account on a moire satisfactory basis than'be- wfore. He_(Mr Vogel) certainly did not think it was th good taste-ori the part of HisTHoubr,7arid on"tHie~22nd te August the Bank Manager returned an answer, in 'which he ; not pnly ; indignantly;^disclaimed any politi- h« cal obiect, but shewed thit. he had been promised f„ ;Debentures,;and the promise. had not been kept, and he that.the only infofmatioh lie received in reply to; his 0 f ; ?M¥^s^sto : tha requirements of the Government 3was Da that he had been shewn Estimates dF revenue amount- tii l ni?,n n^ 1 01le' 020' atl(1 of expenditure to the amount Vj L30D,000. He now came to His Honor's' Message, U1 the only passage -, in -which he would allude to Wl was, that where"hg^ex-jlaMed that the anange- te ments he hadmadeior signing the debentures were Dr interrupted by 1 M 'resignation'of the Executive. ;No tu doubt all must feeL .great sympathy with his Honor w , in that intense anxiety which precluded his executing Jthe mechanical-work of signing those debentures, j and C c also, in the fact that'it 'took-him a week to do what ta that House had undone in a single night. (Great ao laughter.) But passing- from that to letter N0.'17. te it appeared that when the Bank found the arrange- c ; ments drawingtp;axplose; it naturally asked some collateral security. The Government, however, + . failed to see the, propriety of the request, and its if answer embodied the"principle of repudiation. *' In effect it.said ''.you. cannot do anything, and we will not gives'6curity,',;" He-would ;say the Bank hjid a **■ right to demand security if but for single.hour,-and „' the.^Qyernment-;in;refusing;it,; shewed it knew the "' Bank was powerless^ and"took'aivantage of it. Such *° conduct was not the way to advance the ftnancial posi- st tion of the Province.] In the same letter mention was .made with r .regard ; to the.jßank;Manager's' re- v. quest for'an 'interview.' ~'lt 'appeared hi 3 Honor m had stated tipies^of the day for receiving visitors, D and that'access-ito'him ".was'dVfiicult at any other (8 hour's. The Bink Manager sent in his name,'■;■■■" on an envelope by the. messenger, and received an intimation that if tie woijld hot occupy more df his pi Honor's time than three minutes, he would see him. nc ?aocy granting the interview ?s afayor j from the r|j. J iji

ja- lative positions of.the^Governuient an'l'the.Biink./tiie' let,, fairlyjiave..askedjiis.Honor to call on ?ill - him to arrange about'"the"bverd'r'afC : A^bod'Wear in-. had been said abtfut mortgaging the revenue. Now re —the-Bank-had evidence thatthe.Gavernment were ar- ■ jt. .ranging with another^ Bank, and simply asked that si- if it; went bn. advancing,".;.the month's"revenue ne should' be-* paid in as usual. 'He "would? pass on over the evidence of-kindly feeling which»led his *°- Honor-.- to' 4xpress; bis sympat'hyVhidth .'.the; Bank of Manager; in.Ms .diffictilt.positipDy/and.wpiil^-tui'uito '.a: pagell, in which,was ; a letter bearing, "the 3 signature ed of the late' Provincial Treasurer, .whether the sn . Bank of' New 2&alaad were .wlilirig^'tb- accept the ache count of the Provincial Gbverhmc-nt.; But seeing ir,; that the account had.been already.-, removed, he th, ;tho.u;?ht;that letter miglit be called 3. ".dummy letid ter," and.that the-Provincial, Treasurer bad been in s- coriim'unicatio'nwith the'Rankinatiy days before. ?!:. f u#F RR Y-NOL.D3 thought that the honorable mem-ber'-shbuld'not'imp^ re. U; ; MrALQG^;:./rhe.-Provincial Treasurer. acceded ct to the Serins which;he*.(iyir;Yogel) 'thought contained n some curious conditionsj- for instead of interest being »s allowed oh" the dally' Valance it was allowed on the. ie-'. monthly.-, minimum-ibalance, which would be -c ; -bardly wpfjthlstepping out of the -Ray^for.;- Ac;a cording- to the., statement, in the first^ clause of -t; j.document 21, ths". i'ustructions with regard to il,: -the l)ebentui'es, : were very - obscure, but ;no -doubt d . J-ue Proyincial, -Treasurer,; would be able' to ex. . ii. iplam- their,.meaning'.'. .He Avould like Lfco" know^ -: c whether it meant that' * suffi ient" "debentures to CVW theidrafts irii^ht be sold- by the-bank without 1 consulting the Government? It was 'V curious fact . z that there appeared;t'b'be.more confidence placed in , ;the Bank oft New Zealand than in the Union Bank, j } n <>nJ;reter^nce jtbiletteriNoi 3it .would be-fbimdvthat' 1-- rwith'3:the:KUiubirHißai/kvifowas; stipulated-that' 1 f; the in - the event of the ; minimum 'i ix price, 'to^e^aiheda'b^ithet^verhmenf, being 1 1 ,'unbiitainabl^f3nJf:Gi^^tJ;|^atain,'^Aefore.. being 1 ;: s(M^at^'felowCT;j;(rate ; ( 1. .be-..-allowed;.,tpjrecai- them oil - condition of. its ': ■ simultaueously- repaying any. byerdrafis.du* fo the At ! bank. ; ,'. : Tn , pther'r" words ' '. it "';' was'Ttsftpuiated -< I that "the"- t! -should -;:'seii'd J - home '-] 1 the ; price -bilow-^ which, fi'U not attainable 1 ■ the Bank could not sell fresh instructions s ' from the ProvineiaFGbvernment; s But -uch was the ;i ■ implicit confidence reposed in .'the; Batik rof New Zea-; £ land that tLe late Treasurer- did 'not-think -it neces-' -i r sary tp take such precautions Butthere was ample f s evidence^ pf the'-iWanihg bf tli'e/corresjjpndente. The c , late Provincial Treasurer, had been" described as' a I i long suffering man, and althougfr<not%teces3ful *in~ -t i carrying measured >In:the";'House'he^Was so but i lof the House. (Laughte".) -Some* sessions ago be I i was anxious to get the account to^the Bank of ;New. s l Zealand; and although for a white>he failed, at last t 1. he carried the point. He (t\lr Vogel) 'hoped fitoo, -\x ■ that he had carried it-' ins defiance of hisvcolleague ihe c . late Provincial Secretary, for- that' honorable gentle- y man, when he came down to:the; House before the a arrangement was made, with -the; Bank' o f, : New Zea- ■A 2 land, said'-lhere ;wass ho' objection to- ciillitig for ten-T b ders from the other-banks;^ in:accordanc3^with theliy vote of the previous session. He regretted tfiat it had" b been necessary to refer to his Honor'the Superinteii*-- •'£ dent, but .he could nbt;do otherwisey^as.Vup tos a; 'fit r- ■ certain point ; the-correspondence on ; oneipart hatl? *"« be ; n carried, on by him, and therefore that course „ ; liCd* been *-f»"rbed^^ upon• him.' -lAt;'the fsame time v it did -riot 1 ptoses him" toi a ;favorable flight, for % tha Government owed the bank much consideration- .-ji after havitigTieparteid: lrom-the origiual;cbntract. Andl further, as the fjaakhad no remedy agaitist the Go-'* % yernment, cohsidefetibn Should have been -shown v instead.bf irony;\ It.wduld; hpwever> be.better in his x fi remaining ;remarks.tp,make-no.fur.ther ito f. his Honor, but.to lay a}Kdn",.the shbiildefs of ■'tlielate* „ Provincial Treasurer,, especially as he "already had so k . -TOU.ch.tp.b-:arJhat aUittTejnore_ qrjess w-ould hardly ii affect him. (Laughter.) "If he "read the correspon- v, dence correctly,*ithere waslsptoething unexplained; a , but in the faceof those letters, it, was evident very : f, loose arrangeuients had been entered Jinto^with the' fi. Bank of New .Zealand, for, it was plain ;evbn if the ~ debentures did not realise* the*am'ourit'*;expected> they o ', Irould* sell 'sufficient""to: cover ;ithe*driiftk;'and ;there „, was a liability to. that jobbery which was sb^'ebmmon L onthe Stock Exchange: to Fi be_ tendered for, it1 wasTisuaf tb'state the!minimum ;„ price in a sealed envelope, which wa3 aot to;be opened 7., until the tenders were received,; but' hb" such pre- v caution had been taken,;for that agreement" would m allow the debentures fb'be;spid in small. :parbels,' and -ra thrown ;on .the. market'in, a Jihahher. ■{_ That was calculated.-to injure their sal&' He a. had no ~' doubt ~ 'the;;/- honorable-: a, would plead- the' cohsideratidn-.due "to. local! Banks. He (Mr Vo 0 'el) .would, take leaveto':characterise that plea as unmitigated hbnsensV'-^othihg'wassb ad- se vautageous to a young Community ::as to be S with capital from .abroadW^fhs 'profits tnadei'?by ~ Banking^ere .hotigenerailiy.'sbuglit for- by colonists,. ■*? and "its ' tbere1 were f; three'-new v Banks about ■ P to come amongst; themV it would be, bad policy ?5 to express a "partiality foF'ibcal^inStiWtions.^ H (Hear, hear). He hoped; he .should not be accused' ■'?■ of having detained the House too long. The subject was dhe of; great; impoijfanee.',.;. Hig "did not doubt he w< would,be told ofthe injury the discussion would do co to the Provip'ceT.'but the injury was in the wrong that had teen done, .not in the discussion. If the Xl Committee considered ithat.theJOnion Bank had not wi been treated fairly, and that there,, had been1 a an wrong spirit in thercorrespondencs on the part of D 3 the liovemment—if they thought the agreement with theßink of New Zealand! was loosely framed ha —if they thought it had been made becausa the .honorable .member;;wishedto.withdraw^toe' account ut! from the Union Bank, 'they would agfej with the be remarks hehad madei-:.and support the resolutions of the honorable member for Tokomairiro. ; , Mr REYNOLDS'! Iia& nb-intention of following de .the honorable meniber through his, remarks, and wi 'Would' only allud6xto't¥e'cbri'fepdhdehce when heces- it sary. On reference to page 7 it would be found that vi the Superintendent explained the reasons why he was m unable to T fulfil,his.premise to the Union Bank, and no if honorable v'meiriberi -knew exactly the* state of the th -caser-they-would-see-it-was-impossibie-foi'-him to give loi !the'i JDebentures'ito\the.-D'.nion-:Bank; Spine- Deben- ha ture?; .tbvgiye validity, to;them",: .requiredtoe signature sti of the Superinteudenvseventy times, and some of the be first.wjr.eitor: sums., as lbw'as L 50.•- For every LSO, w. .therefore,.-jhe^^^ would' be required to" sign his name th seventy V!meß, VVL Spmej were "for'Lloo, some, more, wi .Ja.t.h.e.Message,.alsQ,_it„stated on_the. 4th clause that hi before.his Honor, had time to consult.withthe Go- ar verhment'Mr Cpwie-called at thb'Provincial Treasury, th with .a cheque.for;L4sU, and informed the Treasurer- -m ...it would hot'*.b'e"paid*..'unless;'tfie'.*'Government, Would " assigu;"the 'prospeefciye M,Oustoih^ Reyehu^ as security, g^ ,Tffij^honorable,toembertof IWaikbiiaiti Stated thatr co -Mr|Cpyie knew;;that negotiations;were-pending with th the 'Bank; of New-Zealand to'change the account, and; ;Bi .further ridtirnate'd'that "no, doubt many negotiations H 'had* been 'goipg';;>h";.hetweeh::..'niyself'''.aiid that -th , r?^,n' -^ow: he coiild ! say that ;he. knew nothing of ta any : change, r'nor the necessity for aii v, till-'Mr Oowie "called with a ..'cheque "f.ir ; 'L4s'o in his'hand and refer-' fii. mg. to,the letter .ofthe 21st'August, which had 'not p heen ;answered,'he.;asked "that an order should be fj given" to the^Sub-.treasiifer that the following month's fL .revenue Would "be" paid to the Bank. He (Mr Rey- ™ .■nblds)^then:TOht".to.seelhis£Hbnor J js| in the Treasury, and when ha saw him again he gave him as au answer, that,;he* should receive a reply ;the; -following-morning,-on-which, he-undertook-to pay; rthat oheque;and;all other cheques. -Ha was-not sure- -C~ ofthe amount';*: it was'hot until "he returned anduip, told him his Honor the Superintendent hid'"been-so: -tt busy, that he promised to pay that and all other* £. cheques. ;;;Hel onlyrwished tdi'cbntradict one state- ;„,.' ment of the honorable member for Waikouaiti, which" co was that he (Mr Reynolds) had bjen negotiating: for ' I the.transfer'of thelaccount prior to, the; 2nd of Sep- L tembsr. He might say that his Honor made a' ter- an porary arrangement with the Bank of New Zealand, AA„ because the manager of the Unipu.Bank had* re-* fi. fused to meet the cheques, and oil the 2nd; September fu he (Mr Reynolds) wrote to the Manager of the, bank !.- of New Zealand asking-on what terms he was pre-, fifi par»d to t<ke the Government account. In the msa'n-'' j , time the Manager, called on- the -Superintendent. What passed between them he did. not know. He S understood it had been mentioned what the term's' '« were, and he (Mr-Reynolds)*replied^to- the letter in .)?' terms as definite as possible. Hrt would appeal to the ."5present Treasurer as to thosetorms. Some Deberi-^ ffi tures had baen handed "over to 'the Bank, and he 1 would ask if they had been handed over inthe manner described by the member'for ;Waikouaiti, The very cX course the honorable: member proposed had beeu taken—the price had.been.fixed, and sent home to IJI agents, with directions to bperi'the' sale only after" w tenders had been received. He should be happy to *" give any information in his~pbwerto-the Oommitt?e. . Mr .VOGEL said the honorable member had led *" the Committee, tp'supppse;- the L 450 cheque had1 not been paid when Mr Cowie called on him. \ fi" "of Mr REXN.OLDvS sail, distinct'y.-he didnotkiaow re thecheque'was nbt paid,for'Mr Cowie said, on condi- w tion, that he received an answer to his letter ofthe *!' 21st. the; following morning: he- would go on pavins -81' to the amount of L 150.000. He could not under-7 of stand why it was taken to him if it had been paid.' N' Mr B. "B. JO Alt GI LL might "state that the way m £ which the information was received in the Govern- rl mentQfficfes led.to theTidea it.was nofc paid. Mr Day, the Sub-Treasurer made his appearance in his £, (Mr Cargill s) office with an expression to the effect, ;J ;^;Werhaye.Btppjted payment;V, ~-.■ ;; ' "J Mr VOGEL said: Notwithstanding that, it'was w paid. From what the honorable member Mr Rey- m nolds read from his Honor's address, the House would se , lpdefstand it waa not pw4. tl

L.he f Ihe PiiuVIN.CIAL TKKASUIiKtt would draw S!|-.. a «ention to'that portion of Mr CowieYletiers, in eai which FerespecffullyTdeclineytV) make-further pay^ ow ments unless funds wereprovided, .and.it.was.reason-;. ir- .able.tprsuppose that r act on was taken' in .'connection' iat .witbvthat, letter sent to' the .Goveruinent,: It was tue catchipg;at,straws to endeavor to fix on his "Honor sss thebuperintendent that he had- 'started the matter, [ns It was not the fact. "'"" "" *~" '•*' " ""'*"* ;. :''> ;t0 .:< Mr. VOGEL- only had -stated that- the late,Trekire" SUl'^ had unwillingly-deceived '.the"House. He ,he .the Hduseit was a mistake, and that ie- - cheque was paiijr ■-'-... fi, fifi '■'";. xfi 'A *'~,*;.";.".'. *- A \ *■' n S .fi Major RIG HARDSON'saiI it*iwas not<his!'int(mh e tion tlien,.to:ente'r;int j;the question; before the House; st- out he had no'hesitation in .saying; he had formed a ia strong opmion:on the*, matter,;and'he.hoped, some - member of the House would, be able >to~ give a.much a _ moresatisfactory account than, had been given.:* To mm itwas:.very:unsatisfactory,: He would make, ho a 4r^f observations until hehad- an, opportunity of pH SSS->!f h?^^subject. In. re&cetoke ed mS -of the Provincial, Treasurer, that-:hdn. i g member questioned the statemmt, that no further L l6^ Sw^^^lf be m^ c M the .Bank But in be JusUce to. the Manager of the' Union Bahkrit should C^ S^r-'^^^^o^ h«! reived no'ansS^ ?* -%&?*s^^ n«?fI)el^3of:.ch^ques. That made fßome * to fi%^uce whatever:, it;; might* berlmt- he would bt IF$? ask^hether.tha arrangement -with the Baiik £ .. ; .otWewZeakud was to-be cpnsidered 'permanent,' br W' i^^--t^ a?.^e^'ok^ MP°a. as in;a transitory i hei}^^^LA:L r ;fßEASimEß: felt:: sbme .t dithculty ; in ; connection; with . the; subject. : ;Had a Mp mover;, of n the :; Resolution hia>- '. fi seit,-. strictly..,, to-, ; - what 7., was. contained Afi in : f have -been quite prepared : „ ml:-^ c vup .'%S:P°sition 3,in *to 'them; n jLhepbject^appeared,, however, to', be -hot tb discuss g the .resolutious.but -to bring His *,H6no'r *aud'"the g Government to the f b'ar*,of. the House, abd* to a-tan'- * d .e^pressipu of-opinioa-^withrregard 'to'their-conduct - * a^ ; matter.; f^Kat.;:placed^.th9:^)veito^n^ , 5 -^Ul Si a^othei-,.'p'o^tion ?fr6mvtha'^:in; which it would d Ptherwise f .haye.4t^n i^lac^'"lt.:cduld; ;h^ > c -feoted^hat Aherpresent :Exebutive- v w6uld' defendwhat; ; • c had occurred previous'to"their iia'im;}"'office.? Tt'was i s sufficient, for them that th i change had'befeh;fdrced ?-> 3POft^ c.J,&oveYnnieht-^'tha^ beeriTmade- -i k'' to -abide byiitvas: a' permanent "] r- -arrangementVA The3term3*'"on"i:whichithe.;Debentnres ; c were P^cediwithithedßaffk-pfKewZaalandVere pre- x c cisely the same as those p eviously arranged with the: ;j a .Union Bank. The farrangement was made previous - a to the >present"G*overhment''' taking office, aud: \ t :instructious would -be-sent-by the next mail. The * * c Manager of,the Bank^of^New Zealand was not - v. aware of the'mihimumr' price. • 'li was^evident from* 1 t the correspondence,jthat j T had not the Government < ,v '.made.;arragements with-another_bankthey. must have; t s comeTda dead lock. ""'He'waj satisfiedrthe lateGo- ; - verntnent jfouhd it necessary; to make?the 5 '.i 3; .and havingimade it, in gbpdifaith to theßank£f-New H - rZealand, hre could-not n6t"make: an "alteration."" In ,i V-hoiipr they were bouivd:to maintain the position they t k iwere^placed in with reference;to':that banking esta- .s I; -blisihnierit^,;;,;v^ -r-.,.* -'-:* V---- ; , K :.,..,j*■.*.*.:-<W ( ■■:;.£ Bfiofc^-- B;?CAR^lLtsaid:the question-before th | * U .^9mmitte^as;§cl^ariyjwhafc course the'late Govern- a lj- ment took in regard, to' the Banfeaccoiiht.-, It -was r ; qui te competent JlprXthe ComiiiitteeVto say if the late s ; Executive did lighten comiiifc-ta the determiha- ' ■• tion arrived: at^ and ihe wa*? quite prepared tb vtake bis '■■■ fi ;.sharetpfth>cenßur|^,:He.believed the course taken J" •:; theJbest^thaii presehtei'itself fbrltth^iaterests of' -" ' the;Prpvince. The :matter first came NbeYdfe the Go- '"P 1 verhment in the.^hape'of a large overdraft,;when the * ' Bank^Manager asked -conditions.; with which" it-was J impossible-- to comply. A A It was." :physically s" im- il '-; ppss3ible -for.; ■ hisj Honor to sign the de^ 1 ■i /behtures,*;.which .-wag?^.^sufficient^reaison why. ..'. thepfoihise had .-apparently been- It a'p- .'.". pearedto vhim to?;cail: : for tend^rsSwa^ab3urd;:ftom: ' 1 one^pr.^pther of; the'".banks. IjTiiereiiwasva tehler ' - ;; :from;theTß.iin.k:.qf^iNew-.-Zealahdxsta'ting-precisely the, -T | terms. The propositionvplaced"'before the" Govern-" a ! e^:o';by*he .P"nion„ r ßank was; scarcely a.becoming: fi one to make to the Gdvefnnierit/afrd'therefore it a'p- ,o 1 peared to him they had_excluded themselves, and; if.*.' public advertisement had-been made in such a state of fi: the account^ the .Government would have been placed c inafalsepositiom r.The; proposal bf;the Bankof.New "', Zealand'being plaCfKl;"before the GoverhmentV'he felt ": it was right^tp acpepi it. With regard to the treat- : , ment ( pf : the', subject by the honorable-member for V Waikouaiti,' it was calculated to bring -the Province ■■', into discredit;-'- He:had gone through ithe correspon-. dence.ina.inannercalculatsd to cast discredit on the '"' ■Superintendent.': ;,-.V i- s*)'.; .'.i ::- The" IBRQ-TOCIAL TREASURER, might ob- fi serve that the debentures were not to.'be; placed in the r marketr except; tliere was a necessity 'for doing so. , Heqwouldl'call thb'attention of the''committee to • the faot'fliait tbey ; w^re asked to bonseh'tto a resolution - that no .further issiitet of eight per"'(ceiibV"'debentures- - should be madewittfo'ut express instructions from the ."'" House, jy T?h'e ; , consequence would'bs^thati ;if it; was A ■necessary fcTsSll, the' House would'have to be;called' 3 together to ask permissibn.. Where, in such case, would be. the-nse;pf .sm* Executive j .He would not I consent to"; sucli; an !arrangeihent^,'J *!" _.. I■ \ .. M^or RICH±SDSON said^le believed Jthe;Pro. A vincial;Treasur;er in his remirks said'the arrangement-; „ witb the Bankjof-N^w Zealand was aperinaneht one;; i and it^as-thejintention ofthe Go verhment'to abide by it. Wasit-tbbe;a ministerial question ?;■ - V :. The BROTW3IAL TREASURER'beHeved Ihe 2 had no choicelin{.the matter. ;. > r ,- s .-'•'.-', ; :...■■ ■ ■■ Major RIfiaA'RDSON said theniit was distinctly si understood, ifthose^resolutiouswere^;carriedit;would s \ become a;ministerial question: fix Ai fififi-in- ... rMr MOSS was hot'surprised at th'eline'of arauraent | i which had been takei^. He had.reaOhe^c'on'espondence, S,nd,.hai cbmbto the conclusion from it^that it tl was impossible to arrive at a correct Reduction- from &] it alone. Theto ;had been" sbveraf Mnter-'"si views between thje.^pevintendent and the Bank jg manager, and consedfuently points that could- fi not be-understoddfelt;rappearedc!ear,':however, that1 - .' the" Bank' ; and-;t)ie -Government had'eometo a"; "dead a] lock, and it^wouldihaye been a mostiimpbliticway to" rr have ildsVe'rtiseS; a general riilei he coiild under- ai stand th'e'jaiy'aiitage'^f such a courses; but to say that ?£ because such a; course:was advantageous last year it t was so then, was illogical and absu?d.£The"case stood ?, thus: One/bank/wis.qut of the inarketj'and there ■" were oaly.-two-reniainihg. The; 'Gpvernmen'f could b hwe gainedipothipg^by advertisipg^ahd now that aa C arrangements hiadlbeen made, f6r the: Couhcil cto ask' 'flj that if;'-:should" ha- broken,i.wa3 .a;;m6st-unjust and fi -impolitic course, --.—-x~~x:-fiiXfi—:fiX-X..'Ax.fiAi..AA;..:fi. i ~...,. Mr PATERSON said' sufficient reason had been" s\ shown to prove the Government were bound to a ?,' "ebufse[that'theycould^nptavoid;—lt-had-beenproved 6; that advance's could onlyibe*"had fiitoixx -'the '•■ Union. q'< -BarikV on:! terms which".coiildf not- be agreed jto- Jj He had no objection to bearhis portion of censure if r , thrown upon -them^but^he''considered the course; 5 taken the only oneopen totbem.>4 n:; -vo: xfix -A. !.■;'"!"."( - The-J^OTlltolAL.;SEoßsTAßY'ifeared^^ that 4l the;debate (instead of advancing:the3,7interesti"of the- Tt Province would: have a : contra'ry?> "ndency.;. "Here- ai gretted that some pf-the -remarks; should "have been et made, because,, while, they ■.scarceiy'f.bpre .upon the, x» ,resolutiohs/;they touched upbn: subjects which it was '■■ - desirable-; to 'avoid; , -The; ; Superintendent; had, ;G : 8 beeh obrought';:ibefbre';the -bar; of'the' House/., and sc -had;n'6t been'dealt within:the.;mostv lenient manner.: tl He thought 'the resolutions if brought'bn should have a t "been introduced~earlier-in-the—sessionr-—-He recol- o ; lectediri the 'earlier stages of I;he .diflfefence with ;the '? - Uhion^ Bank,'the;tben" Provincial Secretory said-if it fi was,the'desire;Qf'the-Oouiicil that tenders.should; be Si called for;-'he !had--:hb- objection;;'but^when^^ further ,'le .correspondence .was_ asked_ for, he administered a, gi sharp repropfrtovhimself Tandlthehohorable^rmetn- • ber.;jfor; Tokpinairirp.•' .V'But'^he,, ; saidVribthingi of \x% anyi arraugeme^t^fhntil vrthe, : /*cprresp?ndence^^; -. had- ,*" .■Passed.-r'B.u't the arrangement;.had been.niide..' J The I account with the Union.Bahk' r 'had.;;been closed, and tt there-;was -no-alternative -"-but -A- to : acceptv' the „■ position'';---and he.wodldisay,; any, attempt '*• :-at change would'place- the inVa very s' da,ngerou'si position: "- If : the * -proppsitidnvwere » made; the .Union Bank" would ;hot';tonder,""ahd the S( ;Bank,of New,Zealand,wouldr.h'ot," and.'therefore, 'the m Qoverntnent wpuld- be , s tbrowh,into" the "arms 'ofthe -i only-remaining-Bank,-whd-would-be iii' a position to * dictate terms.**-;■• If the' Provinceihaid a' balancelthe ' removal.would 'be""of 'no cohsequencej but'with an P over draft 6f:El4o,'ooo'ii'-g6bd arrangement would be ; ; -*■: ; \1 Mijor RICHARDSON, said, from the remarks '« that had bean, tnade-by. the Provincial Secretary, it was plain-if-the_re3olutions.-.were.carried,the.Execu-; -- ; tive would retire from office,, ~: &' ■fi The PROVINCIAL SEORErABY; must posi- ci tively state.-he had expressed no such intention. [ " g< Major BIOHAROSON said/ with the: probability [fii "of the" Gpvernment~retiring - before ""themv he should yi recommend the honorable member for Tokomairirotto ~t withdraw the motion.-rr(No, no.) It was his i-iteh- fi tion to ask him. , He'had heard it said, itwasimpos- -^ sible for the Government to" give;effect to tbe wishes -^ :of the Bank; in; respect .to isigning -the Debentures.. -. Now it was extraordinwy if that; was true, that the. ai promise should have .been made. Why was it; ex-" q> pressly stated when the documents would-be Riye,n |'. jIt had; been said, . the Customs revenue 'was 'wnot asked for a month,:.;but; forL,months,, i^ i That was a new phase.- Thenit was : said .the Super-' '"■'"". intendeut |made; an arrangement ; with the Bank of tc New.Zealand; Itiwas extraordinary that as.there f} were two other banks besides the Union, why arrange*, ments had notbeen;made, with tbem both. Why select the Bank of-New Zealandl Some light: was thrown on that by the fj,ct that last session there was c<

f an atfcampt mi-le to transfer the account to the Bank l ot JNew Zealand. .During the present year the arrangement was: mide,. .aacLit ha a-per-., :•-.ffan^nt form.** t HT,:.did-not wish to say anything 1 unkind nor unjustof anyone, or of any '• Executive1 ■'■ 3 out it was his duty tb give'expression to liis sentir ments. -He found.rthere was-a* specific .agreement ... -made to,advanceL3o,ooo ri There was" an increase bf tue oyerarattiiand the.Bank Manager asked security. . He did not get.it. : Was.that fairto the Union Bank i , -.Jla'l there been reasonable excuse, -it-was-unfair to . leave, him. three -months without answers- to his letters. From- the ; sth; May-to the stti August; it ,was.the t bounden,. duty ,of :the Government to fulfil '*. their : engagemsnts.: It- was said the. Government . was not the case— : they- -went .into, it., : They fl had been told 'it wouldnot have done to, have advertised.: Who wished .Jt?i/""he.- hanks .could' have, been' written tl/, andhe,;saidit : waS:Unjust-tothe other Bank nob %o ask for a.tender and to enter into an arrangement with the ;Bank of New Zealand, alone.- He deliberately thpught the Bank.had been ill treated, and he Hoped, when the case went ; before the world, it would gOjhome ; mth;the statement that the .House madti a •j v • • ai ?':;.^*D?i.'bati6h into the: matter. Having said this much,-he would request the honorable mem-: ber ior Tokomairiro. to ask permission toVwithdraw , tue motion.' - fifi ..". ' •"" ■* - - : ; After ame further discussion iv which Messrs. E. v^t^+^P^'fi^^-- R'ynolds. Keid, aid Vogel took part, :\ ""-;---* '•- ■'' ■- ': ■--- -.' ? y.Mr, HARDY .asked .'leave W withdraw the resolutions, which was negitiyed*.'.'*.; : •■'."••-'■- ■"■■■■[■ fi. it.waf? agreed, that tliey'should l«e put separately.! On-the first resolution-: being proposed, the Ooiimitteee divided. Ayes,: 6.,. Messrs. Vogel, "Richaiuson, Rennie. Blair, Steel, and Hardy (tllter). " * " '. Noes. 25. .Messrs. Gillies. Hughes,--Brodie, Macandrew, .Reid, Dewe, -Pateraon, Miller, Duncan, E., B.^argdl, -Rsynolds,; Morris Murison, Kilgour, Oick,. Burns Mackenzie, J. Cargill, -Walker, Stevenson, Mansfprd, Gleeson, ; Pinkertori, Mollison, OF. J. Moss-(teller);' '..: ' :.i ~-yfiy. '■ A'-.^AyA. '.*-.:. The second'; resolution,was, with? permission, withdrawn.,;. ;/,..,-, *;/:■" *.*;v: ;-'-"-.;-* ■• ■■•-■ .-■•-■ j ■ i'Xfi ,„■;:.• ,-.;:-:.-; LOAN: APPHOPBIATION. ■A-A-A *j . Tin PROVINCIAL Tii^tSaaEß^read the-^----.Portjptthe.Brovincial. .Solicitor,in regard.-to.the reso;L6U,ooo.,, .;, - r ;,... ... **..."",,""". . j : fi^ -tSQjPPP-^loan was3apprdpmted' towards flarfbpr, Wbrivs, aadjtlreVreclamation.ofland:;/ .... : ;, ,' "'""• o i L^is r ?°^ 9re aPP roP^ted;ifor..thejpureliase,: of a: Steam -Dredge. l;, v *c:;j fi-.-. .... ~.-•'-" -,•,-!."'*'*'

firSfi*^' motion? of: -the provincial:: Treasurer, were'placsiopposite'Townßoard .of Dunedin, outof tne *L5J0,000 loan ;to bH expended, (subject ;to the controlarid 'direction ofthe Government.: ' ! ,:. the PKotlNOl^LTlißASCraEß'eipiained that: i^as.'E'aced'be.toje-.-the-,^committee" -to decide upon' P^ i s, v; ai'.-:., which fi^-Ai: 'af.first'"pi;6posedtobeappj-o-■P^ated to supplying Duhedin rwith water," but finding that .it was, more .re^uiredi1 in the .constructionl of -streets at that motn*ent,lt waslpropbsed to advance1 it ;for;thJrt'|)ui-ppse;.,';'\; '■■fifi.fi --.-, ■■■-,: -.-.-.r ; ,. ; ,v. ;;: : v,!.M^^filQH^MON^TOposed tHit J.Vi't should!be advanced as,. a, -, loan, on 3 "condition of interest being -P.8* 1* Ah*fc . rate ,of jS. per cent, aid one per cent :*?m? lftS'- tttnd, i pn. ;the,security'of the Town Rates.' !' ;-r.A discussionensuei.v-' ! r^.";".v;{ fifi'A'fifi... fix i 1- r The;am9nameht was:carriedr fi-i fi-fifi-afifi '.-'-'■ • .;.: LSOtIO was pissed for on'the sameterms^ahd-LIO.ODi). Jbr-the*'Main ftoad Dunedin, L2ooo'forMain fload v Port Chalmers. ! .fiP ai. liW.OaOlTjjing pteposed -for fbrdacations, the atem.was, negatived. ; : * .;''■' ''fi-. fi AX •'■'■■■'-■ -i; ,"

> ;was'votel.f^ ! ''. ; 'The House resumed, xfifiy-fi-fifififi."fiA :fi\': [ ?*-'TheCSAlßMAN;reported:progre3sr.: :, ' ■h?S^i- th^vP aOVINGI^L SEC SBresolutions' res^pectihg-loaiis'-'to Dunedin and Jtort Chalmers we>e adopted* by the' House; ■ fi fi lThe.House'adjburiiid. at.half-past* 12o'cltfck'tb 4 rP'olockp.m.on;Wedne^ay v .:;'i''„-"';.;.;-'-*' ' 1 ; ;