GENERAL ASSEMBLY (FROM THE SPECIAL REPORTER) HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 211, 12 August 1862, Page 5

GENERAL ASSEMBLY (FROM THE SPECIAL REPORTER) HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

TUESDAY, JULY 22, 1562 The SPEAKER took the Chair at 12 o'clock. , SEW MEMBER. ru r"^ I,? K .'themember for Duaedin City, took the oath of allegiance. ■ - _BIIL TO- REGULATE STEAM VESSELS. ♦ weJ? On- C£?, SBIE WARD, in moving forleave to introduce a BiU to Regulate-Steam Vessels, and the Boats and Lights to be carried i-.v sea-goinff vessels remarked that the object of this Hi?l wTJJ ne . cessary one, and one that was enforced in the other colonies. The Bill was read a fi»t time, and ordered W«LSda ' OnlerCd *° **I€Ud a Se^Kd ™ SELECT COMMITTEE OK THE GOLD FIELDS Tne Hon. CROSBIE WARD also moved-" That a seect committee be appointed to enquire into the condition and prospects of the Gold Fields of the coml at m f"^ er legislation is necessary on the subject. T.?.,.. conslst..of'.'Major Riciiardson, Messrs. John Fitaderald, and Russell." Agreed to. mi "t ■.Ir SSU?,S F CRol^^ GRANTS. KATIVE RESERVES, DUXEDIX AND PORT cnATMrp? Mr. MANTELL moral-" For Spfes'of Tc^. respondent relative to the native Reserves in the towns of Dunedin and Port Chalmers." \<rreei to Mr. STAFFORD moved -That a restful address be presented to H IS Excellency the Governor requesting his Excellency the Governor to cause to be laiti on the table of this House, a copy of his Excellency's despatch to His Grace the Duke of Newcastle, JSo. 27, of the 26th of November, IS6I, relative to the appointment of Mr. Gresson as a Jud*e of the supreme Court of New Zealand, or of any memorandum from bis Excellency's Ministers on the subject in addition to Mr. Se well's memorandum of the') ' I August, 1861." and said that he should take an ea'-lv opportunity after the despatch had been laid upon the table, to bring before the House the whole auction of the mode of appointment of Jmiges in this colony. He also took this cccasfoa to make an explanation v,-un regard to some remarks made by the Chief Justice in the Legislative Council last session, {hat political iniluenee had beer, brought to bear on Ihs late ministry w>th r.gird to the appointment of a Judge for the southern district. Ho\v ; is authorise* vo say that His Honor was perfectly satisfied with his explanation on the matter. The Hon. Mr. FOX did not think the despatch * m question contained any important remarks oa tha subject. Motion agreed to, with the addition of the word 3 "and any communication from Mr. Grc-sson to the Governor on the question.'* LIBRARY AXD PRINTING COJIBITtEE. Mr. D. BELL brought up a Report from the Library and Prm*mg Committee. Received. MILITIA AXD TOLUXTEER FOIiCES. Mr. ATKINSON moved-" For ail correspondence between Captain J. N. Wait, Tanmaki Ria e Volunteers and the Deputy Adjutant-General, relating to the position of the Taranaki Volunteer Force under the new llegulations, togetlier with any letter dispatch or minute of Lieut -General GJneron ; 3 >x)n c fM ct of rank and precedence of the officers ■oi Militia and Volunteers. Also, for all correspondence between Capt, J. jr. Watt. Taranaki Riile % ojunteers, Col. Wane, C.8., Capt. Stapp, Taranaki Militia the Deputy-Adjutant General, and Lieutgeneral Cameron, upon the occasion of Capt. Staop navmg m May last been placed in attest by Col. Wan-e G.B. Also, for all correspondence between Col. Warre, CB, Capt. Burton, Taranaki Miiiiia, the Deputy-Adjutant-Genera!, aad Lieut.-Geueral Cameron, upon the subject of the command ot the Tarauaki Militia."

RETURN OF GENERALGOVERNMENT APPOINTMENTS Mr.C URTI3 moved—'' For a Return of all persons ■ appointed to any office by the General Government between the 12th day of July, ISGI, and the 12th day of July, 1862, with the amount of salaries attached to any such office." Agreed to. ENLARGEMENT OF COMMITTEE OX COMMCNICATIOSS. Mr. EY ES moved -" For leave of the House to enlarge the Select Committee appointed to consider and report upon the subject of Communications, to and from and within the Colony to twelve Members." The motion beiag agreed to without discussion ensuing, he also moved " That the names ofthe Honorable the Speaker and . Mr. Atscinsoii, be added to the Committee on Communications." Agreed to. NUMBER OF DRILLED MEN IN AUCKLAND MILITIA. Major NIXON moved—"Fora Return showing the number of Discharged Soldiers and Pensioners, the . number of Civilians who have been drilled, and the * number of Civilians who have been enrolled but not drilled m each of the Battalions of the Auckland Regiment of Militia." Agreed to. ELECTORAL BOLLS, 1861 AND 1862. Mr. O'iIORKE moved—" That there belaid on the . table 01 the House a Return of the number of Electors on the Electoral Rolls for 1881-62, of the ' districts returning Members to the House of Representatives." Agreed to. . ADMINISTRATION OP JUSTICE COSIHITTEE Mr. STAFFORD moved—"That the name of Mr » ' Russell be added to the Committee on the Improvement of the administration of Justice." Agreed to. ORDERS OP THE DAT. m The House, according to Order, resolved itself ' into Committee on the Crown Lands Bill, and after some time spent therein, the Chairman reported progress and obtained leave to sit again on Thursdavf CROWN GRANTS BILL. " * • * This Bill was also considered in Committee, for a short time and ordered to be further considered oa - Thursday. SUPPLY. The Resolution came to on Friday in Committee of bupply was read a second time, aud'adopted. papers. The Hon. Mr. FOX laid on the table the following papers:— Statement ofthe amount expended out ofthe Loan °£ from 13ch July> IS61 * *° 31st March, ISG2. Papers relative to an inquest held at Wanjjanui. Mr. WARD laid on the table Regulations of the Otago Gold Fields, under the Gold Fields Act, 1858. Despatch relative to the position of the Deputy Commissary-General in New Zealand. At five o'clock the House adjourned till seven, at which time it was understood Mr. Fox would deliver his statement of Native Policy.

Etesik« Sitting. SATIYE £AXDS EEGUXATIOX Blli. The COLONIAL SECRETARY, on movio" for leave to introduce a Bill to regulate the disposal of native land said—l rise with a greater feeling - responsibility than what may seem justified by a mere motion of course, but as it is understood that I am to make on this occasion a statement of the Native policy of the Government, I am aware that the House wul expect to hear from me a full account of what we have done and mean to do in reference to this subject. I might perhaps reply to the request which has been made to me to do so, in the words of bir Walter Raleigh's mother, when her son asked her lor information, " Read and you will know," for I can add but very little to the mass of information laid on the table of the House, and with which I have no doubt most hon. members have made themselves acquainted. But, Sir, I am aware from the public press that many misapprehensions do exist in the minds of persons outside this- House, in reference to this subject, and possibly may also peryade the mind of members* in it, and if I can remove some of these I shall be glad to do it. I shall also by this course give tie Government the benefit of that fair and candid criticism which I have no doubt will be bestowed upon the policy of the Government, and which if bestowed in that spirit cannot but be conducive to the public good. One misapprehension which has existed and been very industriously circulated, and may be attended with the most injurious effects, is as to the parentage of the native policy I have seen it repeatedly stated by some of the public journals that that policy is the policy of the Governor only, and that his ministers have had no hand in it, and onlygiven a blind and unreasoning acquiescence in it; that consequently it is a mere Imperial question with which the colony has nothing to do but sit still and look on. On the other hand, other journals have asserted that the policy is that of the ministry alone, that the Governor stands aloof in the spirit of som grim Mephistepheles, waiting for the time when his ministers, having disgracefully failed, he may step in as a Deus c machina, and thrust them and their policy on one side : and in one journal I have seen both views asserted within three months of each other. Now, this may seem a email matter in itself; but it causes distrust either in the native-mind or the European; it may impose serious obstacles in the way of our practical work, lam therefore desirous of exposing the falsehood of all their various assertions. The policy is His Excellency's policy; but has, and has bad Jrom the first, the full, cordial, and thorough concurrence of his ministers, who are earnestly devoting selves to the. task of carrying it into operation. Reference to a few documents will, make this matter clear, and show that not only are the Governor and his ministers jointly parties to the native policy, but that the Imperial Government has itself suggested { and beforehand approved of the only course we hayf

adopted in the colon.'. I beg to refer to the further passages from His Excellency's despatches as showing how the plan originated with him:—

" I have had frequent and anxious consultations ■with the.ministers regarding the future; and if the present orisis is got over and peace established, I, think I see my way quite clearly to the introduction of plans which will completely and lastingly set upon a proper footing the interests and mutual relations of the native and European races. lam unwi'ling to speak too confidently on so extremely difficult a. subject, and I desire to say nothing that seems rash or presumptuous j but if peace can be established, I eally think I can shortly introduce institutions which will satisfactorily solve the whole question and establish Her Majesty firmly in the affections of her native snbjects in New Zealand." "In the meantime I beg to inform your Grace that the general features of the policy I propose are— not to be hurried into a renewal of military operations, if these can be advantageously avoided; to immediately introduce into all such parts of this Island as will receive them (and. I hope this will embrace nearly the whole Island) institutions suited to the present circumstances* and' future growth of the country, and which will supply a want of which the JUaones have long complained ; and, lastly, to use the present time of intermission of military operations to secure all the friends I can, so as to reduce the number of our enemies, narrow as far as possible the territories hostile to us, and place, by the establishment of law and order in native districts, as many out settlements as possible in a state of security in the event of being forced, contrary to my desire, to continue the war. s'. "I have so carefully considered appoints connected with this proposed plan of proceeding, have discussed them with so many able persons, and have so completely met all objections they have raised, that I feei quite satisfied, when my report reaches your Grace, you will feel that I have done what you desire. 1 have also in my project the hearty concurrence and co-operation of the New Zeaand Ministry."

And when, following these deliberate statements of His Excellency I assure this House that the plan for the Civil Government of the natives was His Excellency's ewa, written by his own hands and submitted to his responsible ministers, I think I have shown beyond cavil or doubt that His Excellency at all events is intitled to be regarded ivs its author. Now as regards his Ministers, their known opinions often declared in tins House, make it certain that they, of all men, would, he sure to concur in His Excellency's plan. I need hardly refer to the part which my colleague the Attorney-General and myself took, in reference to the Waikato Committee, and to the opinion expressed in our report. But I will quote one or two passages from speeches delivered by myself as leader of the Ministry in this House during the last session. Immediately after taking office, I expressed myself to the following effect, while enunciating the native policy of the Government :—

" A third principle on which we will act is tli's, to use the natives in working out the problem ; -without this we can hope for no success. To impose laws upon them, to give them piles of statutes, to enact "Territorial Rights Bills" or "Mixed Settlement Bills," nothing will come of that; we must engage them in the work themselves, and let it proceed from them. To this end we look to the Runanga, or Native Council, as the point d'appui to which to attach the machinery of self-government, and by which to connect them with our own institutions. The Native Office shudders at the Runanga, and sees nothing but evil in it; we see nothing but good, provided, as the hon. member for Aapier says, we make the proper use of it. The Kunanga contains the elements of local self-govern-ment in itself; it is the Parliament, the Municipal Council, the substitute for the press, and by its machinery the native mind can be stirred in a few days irom end to end of the island. We have no choice but to use it; it exists as a fact; it is a part of the very existence of the Maori ; we can no more put it down than we can stay the advancing -waves of the risin" tide, and if we do not use it for good purposes, it will assuredly be used against U3 for bad. These, then, are the three great principles of our policy—to treat the Maories as men—as men of like feelings with ourselves; to avail ourselves of the great movement of the native mind as one which has law and order for its object, and to encourage the Runanga under the legal sanction. But beyond all this we must offer them political institutions for their own self-govoniraent, based as far as possible on those already existing among1 them, much of which is very analogous to the machinery of Government existing among our Saxon ancestors, particularly the Runanga, to which helookei as the great means of their political connection with us. The institutions of Government so established should be worked under European agency, but as far as possible by the natives themselvev In all this, Mr. Fox continued, there is little that has not been proposed by others; perhaps there is nothing new. But what is new is the manner in which we propose to bring the subject before the natives. Y/e do not believe in negotiations carried on by a brief and dry abstract on paper, nor by the agency of some subordinate official. What his Excellency's advisers will suggest is, that the Government of the colony should meet the natives face to lace • discuss the whole question at large; explain our ■views; remove the objections, and thus establish that confidence which they have never yet reposed in us, but which must be secured if we are to do any good." Now, when there is added to this expression of our principles beforehand, our memoranda on his Excellency's plan, after he had submitted it to us, to be found m the papers before the House, there seems little reason for supposing that we axe either blindly following -where we do not approve, or give any other than a cordial and earnest co-operation. Then as to the Imperial Government, I beg to call the attention of the House to a very remarkable despatch from the Duke of Newcastle, written before Sir George Grey had even arrived in the Colony, in which he foreshadows some such plan as his Excellency was actually framing in the Colony, while the Dub's despatch was on its way out: — " This language appears to me to »ignify one of two things—either that we must avail ourselves of the presence of a superior force to extort from the Maories a verbal admission of the Queen's rights, and an abandonment of obnoxious phrases, or that we must avail ourselves of that force in order so to break their power; that they will never again dare or be able to re-assert their claim to independence of Colonial autbonvy. The first of these courses would be merely nugatory. A form of phrase imposed by superior force vail never prevent the natives from reclaiming substantial independence (if they are inclined to do so) the moment that force is removed. The second implies a desperate, tedious, and expensive war to which it is impossible to look forward without horror. s? * * I think that nothing could be more impolitic or unfortunate than to allow a sanguinary quarrel to sprin" up, in order to settle a question of language with nncivilized tribes, who do not understand the significance of the terms which they use, or those which we offer for their acceptance. Whatever those terms may be, I should hope with Sir William Martin that just and effective government, by giving the Natives what they are blindly feeling after, would eventually, throw the King movement into the shade; and I hold that the great object which may be accomplished by the temporary presence of a large force in the colomy, is not so much to terrify the Maories, as to give them confidence in our just intentions by shewing that the demands which we make upon them, and the measures which we may adopt towards them while they are, to a certain extent, at our mercy, are not of an oppressive or vindictive character, but are dictated by a desire to secure the common well-being of both races in New Zealand. If these views are correct it would follow that armed force should not be used for the mere purpose of exacting from the Maoriea a verbal ronunciatioa oi the so-called King. We should endeavor really, to attain the same olyect by seizing he present opportunity to introduce into Native Districts the beginning of law and order, and so to wean their minds from foolish, and dangerous ideas; partly by the-sense of good government, and partly by the observation of the power, dignity and emoluments which we are prepared to give to the Chiefs, through whom, acting in concert with the Queen's officers, the Native Government must be carried on. and who in,the course of this government must gradually fall more and more under the influence of the constituted authorities. This is no new experiment, but & tried policy which he has succeeded in different quarters and difFerent ages of the world, and it is peculiarly free from prospective danger where, as in the present case, thd same independent authority which it is proposed to foster is to be committed to those whose power cannot fail from natural causes steadily to decline."

I think then, continued Mr. Fox, I have swept away those misapprehehsidns as to the harmony of opinion existing between the Governor, hia Ministers and the Home Government—have shown that no shadow or particle ef difference exists among them,' and that whoever may be the parent of the plan, its principles ■ are concurred in by them all, and they are thoroughly earnest in their determination to carry those principles into practical operation; Another point on which I have no doubt the T House' will be anxious to have some ;further information, is that of the relations existing between H-s Excellency and his advisei-s -iinother words, how far they have 'united -tv establish the principle of Ifinisterial: responsibility in r Native affiairs, and what they propdsfr in respect of it for the future. .The Government has acted cautiously but frankly, in the matter. Immediately on His Excellency's arrival Ministers "laid before-him the memorandum on: the subject of the Native' Secretary's department^ printed' among the papers—but n)adel no Bnffgestion. His Excellency drew his own inferences, anathje result was fihe! immediate "subordination of

this department to the full conduct of Ministers. His Excellency reported to the Home Government on the subject, to the effect that be intended to carry on his Native administration through his rasponsible a-l-visere. Ministers accepted practically of the position, but abstained from reducing to writing the precise limits of their relations to His Excellency, leaving them to be determined by circumstances. On one point, however, they exercised peculiar caution, not to commit, or attempt to commit the colony without the sanction of this House,—he meant the finance of the Native policy; On this they addressed His Excellency as follows:— .

''Ministers do not shrink from the reponsibility of adopting-;plans, involving so large an expenditure. On the contrary, they consider that circumstances absolutely require it; and require also that the erner-' gency should be^faced at once. It would be idle to attempt the solution of existing, difficulties by proposing plans for the social improvement of the natives dependent on possible votes of the General Assembly. But His Excellency must not misapprehend the extent to which Ministers can pledge the colony in a matter of finance. They can and will recommend to the General Assembly to make tho requisite provision for^the intended objects, and they can and will stake their positions as Ministers on tho Assembly adopting their recommendation; but they have no constitutional power to bind the Assembly beforehand." Now in'the'course they have pursued, I am confident that the House will approve of the conduct of ministers, viewed ouly in the light of the circumstances in which they were placed, and tho emergency of the case; but if any further justification were necessary, it is to be found in tho resolution of the House passed last session, which distinctly enunciates that the time had arrived for subjecting the native administration of the colony to the responsible ministry. This resolution was as follows :—

5. "That any reconstruction of the Land Purchase department on a satisfactory basis, necessarily involves also an entire reorganization of the political branch of that service, and that no such re-organization will bo eftectual or satisfactory to the country, which does not, while fully recognising and securing to the Governor both the initiation and the decision where Imperial interests are involved, place the conduct of the ordinary business of native administration under responsibility to the Assembly. 6. "That while the committee bolievo that provision will be cheerfully made to whatever amount shall be requisite for organizing the native service on a sound and efficient basis, so as to retain the jrood will of the natives, and create the confidence which has nearer yet been felt by the colonists, they declare their conviction that the House cannot justly be expected in any future session to pass estimates for perpetuating the existing system." So much for the past iv reference to this subject. Now as regards the future, I know that a-sense of alarm has been created in the mind? of some person* by a resolution passed recently in the House of Commons, to the effect that alt colonies possessing institutions must for the future be prepared to beat" the principal cost of their own internal defence, awl from this it is inferred that if we attempted to establish ministerial responsibility m Native affairs, wo should be made liable for nil the cost of military and naval assistance from the Imperial Government. Now I pray these hon. gentlemen who stand aghast at thfs awfnl resolution to observe that it is directed, nut against colonies possessing responsible government, but Representative Institutions, and if we would avoid the consequences that it is supposed attach to its operation, we must not only repudiate responsible government but pray Parliament to repeal our Constitution in toto. We need not be afraid of t his bugbear. The resolution is directed against all the colonies enjoying sef-government, and ia intended as a wholesome warning not to involve thetiuelvea unnecessarily in troubles with internal eneinie*, In the hope that they can have the service of the British army for nothing. But whatever be the meaning of this resolution, I do not see how we can get rid of ministerial responsibility in Native affairs. The supposition that we can, rests upon a fallacy which underlies the position of those who have arrucd this question elsewhere. I allude to a series of documents which will be found in the appendices of thiii Hous<> for IBt>o, from the peu of my esteemed friends, the hon. 3lr. Swainson. the Venerable Archdeacon* Maunsell and Kissliug, and others. Those jjoutiemen argue on the injustice of submitting to the Illation of a representative body, the interests of the natives, who have no representatives there. Now the fallacy of this argument lies ia the supposition that the question w one of the Government of the natives inter se. But in fact it is not the government of the natives, but the regulation of the relations between tue Natives and Europeans which constitutes tho problem we haVe to solve. The interests of the two races in this island are so interminably interlaced that it is impossible to sever them, and if you attempt to draw the line, you will find it utterly impossible • either you must submit to the responsible government innumerable questions which affect the native* —or you must hand over to an irresponsible native department innumerable questions which affect the Europeans. Thtre is no way of escape, and which would be. the worst course, there can be little doubt Besides this, it Is impossible to work thn m;w institutions under the existing law on any other principle. The whole of the machinery created by the J>"islation of 1858 is subject to the Governor in Council —not a district can ha assigned—not a magistrate appointed— not a step of any sort taken but by the Governor in Council. If you abandon Responsible Government you must alter all this. Will this House retrace its steps by repealing thoso Acts or altering them in this particular ? Biit suppose you do refuse to admit responsible Government and deny your liability for the acts of the Governor acting without hii responsible adviaeru. Will your repudiation of liability protect you ? Do not believe it. Jne Home Government will not relax its hold if it thinks the circumstances of the case justly impose liability upon you. No amount of protest will clear you of liability in such si case; and, if you attempt to assume auch a position in any nl<"»afdly spirit or in any spirit of distrust of the Jiberalitv of the Home Government, you will not be likely to be the more favorably dealt with by it. Besides all this, I feei bound to ask you in what position you will place the Governor by refusing to share with him the responsibility of Native administration. Let me cull your attention to the expression of his opinion on this subject to the Duko of Newcastle. He writes as follows:—

• Under this system there would be two Governments in the colony, which not only would not always aid one another, hut which would sometimes act at cross purposes with each other. At the present crisis it im quite impossible that her Majesty's Government could be advantageously carried on under such a system. I therefore immediately arranged to consult my responsible ministers in relation to Native affrirs in the same manner as upon all other subjects and m like manner, to act through them in relation to all native matters. If any serious difference takes place between us on these subjects, I must,as in other cases resorttoothevadvisers, and appeal in facttotheGeneral Assembly. Your Grace will mi fact I have no doubt, intorm me if you wish mo to discontinue the arrangement ; but I think it would bo well to leave it permanently m operation until difficulties arise und»r it which Ido not see any probability of. Any attempt to set up either the Governor or any special body between the natives and General Assembly as » protective power for the natives against the presumed hostility of that body, will I fear, produce an ill effect upon the native mind as making them regard the Assembly as their admitted natural enemies: whilst it will perhaps create in the minds of the General Assembly some prejudice against the Natives, and against what may be done for them, and a carelessness for their interests, with the protection of which the Assembly would b" in no way charged. Under the system I have adopted the trowrnraent and Ministers act as mutual checks upon each other. If either of them wishes to force on some proceeding which the other party regards as unjust to the Natives, or as injurious to their reasonable interests, it is known to both that the ultimate appeal must be made to the General Assembly, and that the justness of the intentions of each party will become a matter of public discussion. It is therefore reasonable to think that each of them would carefully consider the ground on which they were acting, before incurring the risk of an appeal of this nature. i Certainly this plan throws a greater responsibility on the General Assembly, in regard to the expenditure on account of any war which their acts micyht bring on ; but this would indirectly prove a great protection for native interests. : The Assembly will now know that the justness of their acts, if disturbances spnng from them, will be nublicly canvassed in the British Parliament, that if misfortune and daubers have undeservedly been brought upon her Majesty's European subjects by the misconduct of the natives then the General Assembly will receive from England that generous and liberal support which she has never failed to afford to British subjects under such circumstances : whilst, on the other hand, if (which one may hope would be impossible) the Colonial Assembly had been attempting to oppres3 her Majesty's native Subjects, its unrighteous conduct would meet with that public reprobation which it would so iustlv de■erve." ■-■■> ■■ *■;.■' --. ■■ .- .••-> - .-.•••:•.-

Now, if these be hia Excellency's riews on the subject, ?? r° / ou Pr°P°3e **>' enable him to cany on a system which- he has .already pronounced imposiblc 1 The advice wbkhthe Governor feels bound to give to the House on this subject is, ta let it be as it is. Do not attempt to repudiate responsibility on the oue hand and do not attempt to define too minutely the: relations of.-the f Governor towards! his responsible adVOfFu *iNoi hf? g Übe P*** 1 -V the first course, and by the latter, confusion arid difficulty -will to a if^fe^v Thi» next subject on which I think wif uto tou T eN fe that of the Finance tof the Natfve Policy. I have seen very absurd statements

in some of the public prints of the colony, na to the reckless unauthorized expenditure which the Government is supposed to have already incm-rod on this object. It will perhaps aurpri-e tho House when 1 tell it that of the £10,000 vot^d last session for native purposes, and which tlie Houso declined to appropriate specifically, the ministry have yet a balance in hand, and though liabilities have been incurred beyond that amount, tf'e whole exffinditure there included Ser annum, does not amount to more than £13,000. iow as to the finance «f the future. His Excellency asked the sum of £50,000 a year. This was apparently double the amouut of the vote of the previous year, but in fact it wa3 a saving to the colony, for His Excellency had very liberally undertaken to forgo the contribution towards the «nt of Imperial troops now paid by the Colony, to the extent of half the cost of the native pluns. This, as the whole cost would be £50,000, we should only have to vote £25,000, and the equal balance would he provided from the source indicated. An additional advantage of this, win, that whereas if the amount was paid to the Imperial Government, it will \>c spent out of the colony—by this libera!garrau£ement it will be spent here. In fact, the colony would really save by the transaction, viewed in the abstract. And v we considered how ppreat the saviug was a» compared with a war policy, there was no doubt of the economy of His Kxcellency's proposal. On this head, continued the Jion. member, I bes to quote again from His Excellency's despatches':— "It need hardly ho added that the total annual expenditure upon nil these objects, which expenditure will last but for a short period of time, will not nearly equal the mere annual interest of the capital which will be sunk without producing any return whatever, in the first year of a general war; which will then probably last for (several years, and at the close of which when the out settlements had been swept away, and the settlors had been ruiued, it will still remain necessary to take such measure? for the permanent peace of the colony, as it is now proposed to take at once." I now approach the more painful pnrt of my subject, I menu that which relates to tlie condition of Turanaki. This House will j^ive me credit, when Impress the deop sympathy which is felt by his hxcellency and his Ministers, for all who have suffered loss or injury by the late unhappy war in that province. Gladly will we reinstate it'not only iv its pristine prosperity, but make it ten times what it was before. But in approaching practical action in the matter, we must bear in mind, that wo have not. only tho. interests oPl'anuiaki to consider, but those of all the European cilonists in tho island as well, and equally with theirs the ink-rests of nil that large majority of the Natives who hajre not been engaged in hostilities.against us. As reijanls this part of the subject and tlie occupation of the district of Tataraimaka by tho hostile Natives, these ma^tcra have a military aspect and consideration* winch must be left to his Excellency done. I do not pretend to know his Excellency* views ou the subject, anil if I did I should consider it most improper to divuVe them in.thU place. Hut Ido feel bound to disclaim the wmnlk-st parti-le of responsibility, <-itheion the part of his KyclleiKiy or of hU Ministers, in refercru'd to the condition of Tanmnki. As :t is so we found it. We aru not responsible for its calamities. And as regards tbnt peculiarly dl«----tressinst point- the cx;eu;j.ition of Tnturairnaku in particular, wo cannot be Warned. I beg to refar to the published papi-rs oa tint point. It will 1« setn that at the ttrmin-ition of h wtiliticH th« N^itiruanui and laiMuaki'K Uu] entiivly retired from that tlhiiict , ami sontj some 40, some 80 miles south of Tannaki" At tliis juncture- Ocnen-tl Cnmt'ron rukc<l Governor Browne wheth«r he sbuuM locate v fore«; at TalAmijnaka, and leul he done so, tho natives would never hive btf.ii able to intrude there. Governor Browne, in a despatch of three lines, declined the oifcr. ami the natives gradually—but b«.-iWe we vx>k offif-e - crept back and took poA-k^ion, We m;iv refer to various authorities; to Governor Hrowne, General Cameron, .Mr. WhitUker, Vi show that any attempt to invade the country of the^ tribes coul.l be attonde-l with no ailvantajp, and would in all jjrobul.ilitv'ilraw on a gcsieml war. Now th'u the Slini^try w f "re not prepareil to advise. Their *«.lvice to the Governor in reference U> tlie Taranaki question they have Wvvn in plain, distinct, mul, f think, manly term* ; ifiaia print, «nd before the Hou.it*. Hut it U for his RxceJlency to choose hi* own tim*. and net for hinjv>lf, in reference to a matter invi.lvin.!,' alm<-*>t <-\.>hivhvly uuliUry co U HuJonvti..! ; «. [ shall uotik'tein tbo House much longer, but I fwl louml to i>xptx«tthc oninion of the rrovern!ii«iit.-w to th-j unr A r K^i which we hare ma.lo m ...arrj-m- out the jwlicy we un.lortook. On the who!..', re-^ir-,1 Wing ha-l to the metms at our disposal, and tfa« t'uiK- which h;« elap^l, it has been most satisfactory, and much more swa-SH h«M b:tn atUmei thmi wo coul.J h-ive exivckvl We found the whole n:itiv« i»opulation, t-vi-n th<> ni'jat friendly tribe.-t. filled with <ktp dUtniiit ami mtenac suspicion of the Government. TJi«» iiulk of them trembled on a line tot.-.v«utt|w;aee anu war, and were fast gravitating to thu latter. We have «uc-cc<lcd we think, iv restor'nt; the confid-nce in us »flar«re sections of tlie race, and n\» b-ljfcvo that a vcrv "••'n*»raj distrust of th« Kinj? movi-nic-nt, nreomp-mff d by an inclination toward-* mtv ri;!<-, is n<nv in |<r<>int\s*. I inayspvciiy an iiistrin'X' wh'ch li.t^ omi'-rcd wi">?ii'i ton days, not 80 iiiil.rs'fi-otu where we stand, luunelv tho entire detection frmn tlio Kinx movenunt of two hapus numbering 200 souls-, previously the most determined Kin^itci—the followflrw and relatir.s of ll»n^ihncati, the fiphtinj? General of tho war of 1810 who have come-over in a bo-ly to tlw Queen, and me r foUow«d h>' "enriy a\\ tho West Coast south of \v an^nnui. In fact th^rn is a jyr«*at sinking of tho native mind going on ; tlwy be-in to tiieof the Joily of the King movement, and aro lookfir* ta nafor law and or«l«:r, anrl tlsouj,'!! the work i% one r.--Jiuinnjr time, labor, nn<t patience, the (iovernmeiit i< hopefully confidf-nt that tin; problem will be solve. Ithat the native rare will be restored to it-* nlk'nanc* Avithout bl<X)dshcil; and that the British name wi'l b • simrnl thn slark Rtain which would ntracli to it through all history, and no lapse of time would ever cit.ice. The Hon. the COLONIAL THKAHUUER seconded the motion, which was nffr'eed to without discussion. The Hill was then road a fimt time, onlfml to I* pnntcil and to be read a second time ou Friday Tiio House then adjourned at 20 minuto to nine o clock. WHD^ ESDAY, 23iu> JULY. The Hou.*e met at 5 p.m Mr CARTEU. presented a petition proving for Increased postal arrangements, from settlers on the eastern sidn of the Wairnrapa Ink** The COLONIAL SKCHRTARY Wd on the table particulars of cases lost in the White Swan. I'urtherpapers respecting the "Maori Kin" MoveniMit' (lle|>or!s front Mr. Unller, R M ) Further Papers relative to Military I>Jfcncc (in contmuation of Papei-s presented 4th June, 18(51 ) I?cf urn of the Number of Electors on the Several Electoral Rolls for 1801-02 of the diHtricta returning Members of the Home of ltepre^ntatives (Koturn to Order of the 22nd July. Mr. O'Rorke. »r i s r-NA7 n'E l' Of' lCY HESOLUTIOKS. Mr. I'll/(i lilt ALD gave notice that on Wednesday he Rliould move the following resolntions:— 1. "That in the ndontion of any policy or the passing of any 1 uvs nfiectinpr the Native mcc, this llouwwill keep before it, as its highest objecf, the entire amalgamation of all Her Majesty's subjects ii Nf w Zealand into one united people. 2. ''That this House will assent to no laws which do not recognise the right of all Her Majesty's sublets, of whatever nice, within this Colony, to a full and equal enjoyment of civil and p«Htical privilege 6. Ihat a recognition of tho foregoing principle will necessitate the personal nid of one or more Natl r V *i nf* m-th, c of the Government j of the Colony; the presence of nusinbew of the Maori I nobihty m the Legislative Council, and a fair renrc I sentohon in this House, of a race which constitutes I one third of tlie population of the Colony f 4. " That the same principle ought to 'be respected in the constitution and jurisdiction of all legislative bodies subordinate to the General Assembly, and of all Courts of law within this Colony. 5. " That a respectful Address be presented to His Excelleucy the Governor, praying that His Kxoelleucy will be plejised to cause such steps to be taken as lie may be advised will bring the policy above indicateu into operation with the least possible delay " THU BTATK OP XAKAIfAKI. Major■ RICHARDSON nob being satisfied with the explanations of the Colonial Secretary J aß t nfcht intended to press the following motion :— ' "Tbat tliis .'House should; be informed, so far as may be consistent with any present or prospective military arrangements, what measures are proposed to be adopted towards the Tarauaki ami Ngatirnaimi tribes with reference to the murder of unarmed liritish subjects, and also with referenco to the dcs truction of the homesteads and plunder of the property of the inhabitants of tho Proviiee-'of Taranaki " tT The Hon. Member then proceeded to address the House as follows:— In moving tho consideration of the motion which appears in ray name on tho business paper of to-day I am fully sensible of the very grave character ot what I liavo undertaken; and I avail myself at the outset, of tins opportunity of craving the indulgence ot the House. I would urge as a'pica for this indiilgencc, that I am the youngest member in this Oiiamber, (laughter) with the exception of my honorable colleague on the right. I almost fancy V see a smiJe ot incredulity stealing over the countenances of honorable memliers; but should any be sceptical on this poiut, I have only to refer to the records of this tlouso, wherein my natal hour is inscribed as a legislator of but a few hours existence. lam also under very considerable disabilities from having to urp« the

resolution in the face of so able and effectual a propojed by the Governor ; some Natives refused to debater as thelion, the Colonial Secretary; but Lave anything to do with them, o'tfaeni anyptnl the* relying upon Ha intrinsic merits, lam content ou the sth of April, lS(jl T iev were V- rmlv ™ been told it is the opinion of soino, and that it was appointed ou her-llaj^ty's behalf to carry out oa has been cxpreaecd more than once in this House, her part a portion of tlwm, andho prooeeS to'the that South/ '.: rne.nbers should not give expression to V/aitam to execute his mis. Ion: 4ou SieWri Chief their Bontii its on aueaiiona of native policy, m- who had borne the principal part in accepting the \L f JolCea ■*? 7 "l 11- 1 bee^ »y»"g."«Fcste with the people;•' and finally the minnformed. We are very far from being indifferent Commissioner, amidst threats of violence, was obliged to the very grave questions which have to be dfa- to leave the place, being satisfied E tIL would cussed iv reference to our connection -with our Maori resist by force of arms any attempt wn eh mVht I? fellow•mibjeeto-indoecl I might adduce in my own made to carry out the terns SSI on behalf, the &cfc that the motion I have introduced this "$; Again, if certain NathSwil? not give up plunevemng, has a very important bearing on the der they have! txken, should we Sr^tlfe calamities material interest ot my fe low countrymen at Taran- of war on the vuole'feland 1 The 3,[Sorics ra> not % aki whose period of KuiFenug has been severe iv it* wparaje nation from ouraelvw Is U wt^teto cntortaimns a natanl distrust of my ability to do plundering, and to bring any person found with stolen ustiee to the subject I havo taken in hand, I am proj^rty to tiiU whence Lm? tecanStraflS wply impressedl with the conviction that there are than to We a . few troublesome %u!i™dusl'™hZ nS£ nnT? of n e.xl! rf *i°?'. S'lould the honorable their Mows have no power of eo^SgS^d^Si members on the ministerial bench be of opinion that is right, the cause of iiiyolyin-'inoucent and euiltv the introduction of tins question lias anything in it alike in a terrible war?" of a personal character, I ask to be allowed to dis- I know not whether'l read ri-hf but the ironiesabuse their minds of the erroneous impression. lam s i on conveyed to my ininJ bythe former of thete no party man, though not devoid of political aympa- passages is, that treaties with tS - Na"iJra are mSe that thu question would bo divested of a carry them out, force would be used to resist it political character if submitted by one who From the latter extracts I glean that th-re^t-ition U ha^'Tln t ulf naid JTv l th " 1 ICf M° f fa nOt. d^«A «£ It lias been truly Bail by the lion, the Colonial prevent the repetition of such plundering If thi-is Secretary that Euroneau ami Native affaire arc so in- the attitude \v» are to i™" PZT%frJ f f , timately connected that they cmnot be disentailed. "ipreSi!- my dJu ST'nf fSL?™S °m It will be necessary for n.* Wow. to take » some- P S^S,l™^ r^SStbw Is t iuLd cornS what was proimod to t,,m ; and tint there Uau tribal duties too] (Heir &') When tbTr^ht* their opinion, hnkx«H« u «y will decide on hi?own ™£2?n n^Un fo" fw «-,i f ♦ V fIC!U responsibility; in fact, it h« been offimcl that there JuVfiS of? h^a& Wh£SJ££* ofSeVhS membor, Sir, when residing iv t!w county of Devon, ft towid th Je S«^ T* 1 er thepreieutoccuionmavbe of th» character, but of tKroSctioJof'S?rST ' r«Pasi»S under this i will sjHsak hereafter. My reawiw fa pres.in^ b^S^f Xir /wK,r^ SV i R» un«jith r l the consideration of the motion are twoWd. I cannot £ n^otW Lrtfih if t l^? wUlia|?l? regard the explanation abided by the hori. thi Quh- Sll en Sot tnwr*- in m t .eill.u^ !my mi,,-l of the difficulties which c-iuf.arra^a it, I !I'TMniSfvCr"vi.SA"nf '- 1?h ■"!^ lWe th? l I naturally had rt'< ? m«etatbevolu»uinouHi K i l K..r.whWi "nn«l on^ ind^r^^4 •? i "" t f ?ava;" a?. ft>u- ily Uv- iK-en laid on the table of thi, Houw, and hew ! i'SSlv ?rVa«?•* *V?et^^^T; S^^Z"^' ior not, it ftiruWieJ Wiapons for the v? * of toeir1 Si «S^ Im. . V- '7 bet w«-»n us up^i ; theSUiliMf July, 18kJ»J. we flnd hhu, when adJr^'in " .u<T e '. slUc'^' t» «'t luvo ua (iroaiul for doubt or the houses of the Lc/wlaturv, atserti:i2 " ih« necessity "c*'lta.VV a ' -I'!'-' in-aa- Ji£ " cleir. Ttio f : rce of a re,«f liplioUins Her AlnjtM>'s supremacy by fun-e of T "*J"I« m*!lM«r>^c^i.tiiip: the "aWicattd" p-nvtr artiLV'awl the "prorvation of the n-nts of tl..- ?j "jn I**^"^ "ativo ah ur.-, is n <> !.:•&< than flic cent of I proprietor* i»f land." Her« we liave a dL.iiu.-t «nut- < . °"»"=«, cotitinuanc!', or coiidurt* 1 of the war. j ciatian of the bt ■ (JovyrnorI**1** oni'tion—the wir is -a t- *'c liri';nuil for tli!s ? T;irr« hno avo-din? the ! imperial war, f«.- im^rial purjn»«.-i. I cin«ot re 4* i que*»*»»-^ man b« Rtitr/prcJ! With tlie powr ; t!i« o|»|»rtunity of payin* thi.H'paviii" trihut-' of "uu- Ji"°s [• "^'P'^" 1"1"^' —(bear, hear)—and vrith r<;- ---! feiCTie.l admiration of" tlw frank, OAUmV»u" wmly pAlonAib%iJ »»« payment of all ospcu^t. (Hear, aii«l truly BritWi d«U'rininaii«n eviruvd by OAjuA ■ n> llier;;.^ •* !y =!«^ sc-i'.jeuco in this that the:e Browne to preserve the honor of th«j Crow a* avl tl^ l* ,-RO, aV0Sl"n?; .. Lf»rd C.-imarvo'i jKjistivtlv ; lives nud proinati*-* of II«r SlajcsU's »übjftc-U con- Uef !medr oa bi>N'.,?f t!l^ Otwn, to "akli^ | iidwl to his i^-c—un ndiiiir-ation in v'hJdi 1 ke! tvui- ' uy, • • ropj.'isiliaiUfo ' and t«> haad over iae r vine-jd this \.->mc will mos: curdinliy uait-- (Hear ' n • tu- t»l'.ir-iUon of thest affairs, whi-.-h may at anj | hear.) I r ..v proceed ty «ivo < xtr^irf frota ;t m"u»t *Mt lliT>ll« th« cmi'H vlucat and thdespr^:h r. Lor 4 Carnnvon,' datol May l'« IsiJj «;>«!*cqaen«s of «n exj^nr-ve conflict." fr'ir (ieor■•'« lOn tho 18 of May, lS3i>, Lopl Oamaron "writ^: , J the aUlicatira an 1 transference i --" Circun tnc^do nyt yet juntifv th..- liuicrial Uo- ,'"/?, l f r^- WIJ- <!I*'";^y ea-i the eonc.-juenees will 1 venunent iv a^Ha»tin« tho r«»-rfJiwibilititfs whi.-h at f *";"**• Ui^r, hear.) It hns been said prcM«'ut rest on it, with rc'.-ird to this romariai.'f we " . whether we aivej-.t or not, we shai! have to pay :AKain-"Ai;;l while Her Majtstv^ Govern went °f tlw -Var- ' ''^V the truth of their ii«fI fei'l the-av.-lveiicouiitr.iin«d v> jii,»ify t-> i\irlia!:i -nt u<m7 l '} v afiuiri^noi in a proposal U one tiiiiiir —It tho iar;-'^ i-xik-uc.! whioJi every )c,\r i^ incme I for P rriC-* lts iv-|K)n-ahi!itL->—and our j«v«eat poritioa j the lair.iniiuince of a military lorcr ia .W.r '/. -il-tni l* a!K.' U l ii' r' U:i;* wl"'t-J-r w'!- ase.-pt thi proimi] or | fur the a-friicj of thu O4oity,"a.j i far tin y-lUr mi' T^i! - V. c tlO, much in the trene'rasitv of trol au-.l ivgufcition <->f thu x.vlve r.u^, th»v' mu-t !• l>vlUn t0 (>nteti»'» for a sintrle moment retain in their haml.-i i!ic- administration o? tnesj r utJp ucrous s«S])icwn th tt ths cnersrits of .in inaJ&iw, which at any moment may involve the cnnlov- ■ ly are to l>e s?Ill'-a-^« srrmvtli dwarfed by : ent oi' th.Hti troojw, an-1 the cin^iuences of an vx- e>n*-qu<-nns of a war e-nUr.-l into by the Uopra-I-ruaivc conflict. So Ion? a.n th« C>lonv f«r thw ilta. nv.° of the Cr? wu fllr d'-fcsiee of " Her Mai urp^»' en.inya the adv.inmso of tniSit-trv'and navl J esr y." ft'Jp^mn.ey,-' ami tho protection cf Her sln- ! rotection, If or Majesty's Governniesit cauli^t co-isci't Jl>st-V. s S'-i-ycc'-t cida»p;re 1 tlierchy. I full W e;J rcto yiold & ixrint which >« tlieir oninion, is "«o inel" lH!'t:w I?r^'Ji- |:*!l t»«t were lavishly exiwnded tntiiaatfcly conn«ct&l with tho twurity of th« xi ■ lm} H"'i:il Suvernmcnt at the Cape of (Joai Colony; the justice due to native ckim^ an! , Pf '," cm um, sf-nc^ less urgent than the present : tlie i&.ucs of jv-ir-e O r war it-vif" 'Com- i ".:. lVl?, no noujl lsiat "'»■ j«<t expectations wili menu on th«e extnwte aro unncwwirv. Uu- 5 ruaf fnl io the ,ftil!- It is neciful nOVt less th« CMony i.i prepare Ito meet Uw Crtnvviuencea ". °. , « complete the review, tiiat I of "an exiwiwive contlict," the Imporial Govcruuient a(l, vert illie, °r |n»'"»« cntfrL-iincd on these will nut "aUlicateUKMrreHpon.iibilitv'l H.-iv the-v MlbJ <' cts -^ ffie Ir"N*'n:i! (lovornment, and, in o-,Ut is no doubtful expression ;we fetl thS ground unli-r to P;)t .VtJU »» l:f'^^»':» of the facts, T wisl read to H3 at every step—w tt kn»v our cs.ii-t txisit'oii Ti >l\ CXt/';; t" Ir'"." "^F'^"^ from Hi, Gr*x- the We have now arrived at a jierfod of srau.-jitioij The "-^Kuof jSewca«,ti& # Un the sth June, ISoI, ilis j«wcrj* tire shifting, Imt oprraliiMw uf th'^ greatest iia- UraCtf writ« :~ l-orlancu- art; ocourrint;, an. 1, it Ix-conieH v-? vi ose-rtaiu " * buut' IlOt :it^»ipt to presiriba the conditions o r the views of the present Ministers. lIU Ks<>-lbn«-v S^l'-'-. »l«u'?i I may ihink oti-ltt to be imp^i (■*• and tJie Duke of -N^wca-stle, libcau^ it h from th' ''I^'}'^K hut I v.Lh to impress upon you lu'v coa"hanuoiiy of their o;iiniuu»'/" *m called, that we shall I TiotlJll t}i:it »« «lcci liii/ upon tJioie conditions it dUcov.T wh:»t > i.s tiiu jtrobaMu unuiro of! v'l!l ! >i; -v"ur liut-v» %v'hi!o v™ 5 »>S all unneoesur" th<; tiitutv !i-hmnutrition (,f Nntivo art'i-K. Witli i sc>verU: towards men who cm scarcely felookel \inoh respect t« tho Kr.V.-ct which is marc irnmcdinWlv be- jai PaiU Cl->t:! In rebellion, to talco care tluit neither fore the ll'-m*.-, i wul rwi Uh* folio*-inij extra t from' >*ollr °'vn miSS:O». nor the cessation of hostiHt:es a mmutc by MinhU-u, of the Bthof Oetobor, 18ol: u'"? n 5t af!'»vfc!» k!'-^' carry with it in the eves of tb» " Vi^oro-.B wea<!irv«s may be taken to re-establish n:it»vc-"i a«y appearance of weakness or nlliriu I* our position, jfrl this appears to Ministers the tru» wo«l<i better even t) pn/10n.4 tha war with all it< po'icy. If theru must he a war, it id better I'ir ih<it, ev.ll6» tlian en lil without prwJudnß in the %'»t^e it should he at Taranaki than elsewhere. For whit-! mm feUC'l a conri2tion of our strength sis ma* render ever mirfchief could be indicted on British seUl<>infnt* ! Peace» »»o*- temporary ani precarious, bat \™?'l by a j>wte of war, luu been done there. Thu pjnl- (j^uh'jbu and la.-.tin^. * - ties of war have been already paid. Besides tl.iV, tlie , "tfthe Maorics acquire that conviction, and if they cawofthc Agatinianui and Taranaki Natives is thi themselves, as \ trust ana btiieve tw Su | one which presents the iewest ground, of sympathy treatel by the Government after their Ucfe t with t I with other .Natives. They uigased in the qunrr/l niucb.fairna* and con.i.leratk.n as they tweivli h^ ; *,thout provooition, and wore guilty of groii «nt- <"««, much will have bec-n done to LcLeXlt m" rage, fheir .present attitude is one of such o,vn wclfire and lnrmony of the two racca which iSabS hostility, as, m tlie eyes of well afiectol Native New Zealand." wuabit tions were carried on with a view to oi>en un ami c* Our hr-irt^ Imi r.-. ™A l 7 "ritihh statesman. talilish milifirv communication by rVoda" l«two«i S£f M^ yt° every seaHment-the Mini»t6H are of opinion (so X th^n S" *&,vSS'-^"ffi 8 °f a-<:^''»ou of bostiiiti^ uutil in tiiisdia-ctic.il They >.d.eve the effect would be-in rini fellow cJuntrvmen obli-d to «Km • ' no lon-space o f tune to brm.tr tho Ngatinumuis and no pm^pect of veliV. I will fe^lv ti ™ f«i V ■ \ Tanuiakis into submission. The settlement of Tarn- metur/ Kh rV™l, V) '7s • i thls wl The opinion of.ministers on financial matters L, ex- of Fcbruarv, ISu2 — Je^KitiJi of the 2otu the permanent solution of the Native qSn But headl which ff '(&,v 5? f utri, b 7tlon f£s per it is right that His Excellency should SndmUnd the W^of Bri?Wur^^rt, e %^ to sssr£Ka« ass a3s~!r-SR=f-Sir, I do not think there will be a single dissentient "fforded tliem afc Ul(; «xpense of Great Britain:" voice when I characterize tho sentiments expressed in sentiments are unmistakeable, the exact nature of these extracts as clear, well-defined, out-spoken and r . ensagement is demanded before tlie power of unmistakeank-. I cordially thank Ministers for the for Native matter* is abdicated, and it is action they I ye taken in these matters,—action r£' l-it .*Y° oul d remember that those views are worthy or nier. entrusted with interestsof tha greatest SliW hls 11?^^ 8 fiuancial exposition -of the importance. It is expedient now that we refer to His th ? f ov -' Wjnel,1 1 have. Jusfc «ad. (Hear, hear ) Excellency a Dispatch^, m order to ascertain the ?, ir'. \ Lave .no^ d? n? Wlth estracts-and I think assumed accordance of sentiment. In a dispatch th*t J T Juf tlfie<l. » the conclusion at which. I from the Governor to His Grace of Newcastle, oY the fV nv?' tha) i ,Ule^ f1 .13 no liarinony existing between 80th-November, 1861, are tho following passages -~ views of the,different parties. I find mvseinnS "5. The uselessness of forcing the Natives here to She're tiS-°SS^r'^i" 18 (??^'itoo»not accept ceriaia terms of peace isshewnTbv-what tbok to iv 110.,hF« If T de3 wlli(sh l .c? u civ? aQ3^r Place-.tth.waitara. &tain teJftS fiS Sto%3SilS^

the Governor's ? Should the motion I have submitted be adopted—from what quarter would authoritativ c information-coine ] TiJi this Is'ascertained, the value of the information afforded cannot be tß3ted. I have grave doubts whether the expression of the opinion of ministerial advisers -would be satisfactory. I feel that I am treading on tender ground, and that my sentiments will not meet with approval from either side of the House—but nevertheless I must express them. I regard ministerial responsibility in our present circumstances an impossibility. T*y the treaty of Waitangi the sovereignty of these Isles, was ceded to the Grown— and that cession, I believe is not transferable to another wit - out the mutual consent of both of the contracting parties—the Crown and the Native race; and, in passing, I l>eg to be allowed to remark that the purchase effected at tha Waitara—the original cause of the present war—is, in my opinion, a far more binding transaction than the treaty of Waitangi. In the former, there ia scarcely a angle dissentient; in the latter, there were but a very few represented. They stand or fall together. But, allowing that the transfer of legislation is sound, I cannot but believe that i the Natives, not being represented in the General Assembly, cannot be legislated for, and I doubt whe- ! ther they are entitled, as tribes without individual- ! lzation of title, to vote. Be that as it may, and much i as I esteem the principle involved in -the enunciation j in ths notice papers of to-day, respecting the right of Alaones to sit m this House, and the *' Maori nobility" to sit in another place, I have a doubt whether the presence of the.*} illustrious Maories would enlighten us on the intricate subject of Crown grants winch has absorbed m much of oar time lately. Each race, talking in a language unknown to the other would certainly be amusing if aot instructive, and ini^ht possibly lead to a " harmony of opinion." The best way to carry out the principle, would be to create the territory embraced by the Maories into a new Province, and to make the Maori King Superintendent, if you do this, I assure you—and I speak from personal experience—that- you will draw the string from the King, for Superintendents are a most harmless class of animals. (Laughter) The object of the legislation-of the present session whether originating with the Governor or the Minis' ter, is to elevate the Native race : and, by conferring political aad civil power, to educate them for partic? prjting at some future time, in the general legislation of the Colony;—and a most noble object it is I doubt not this House will agr e e with me in regarding the uuty as one iv which they should unite as far as their limited iaeao.3 will admit. But education to be MHIU.J must be complete—whib we teach them how to rule, va mv.-x teach t .eiu thedutv of obsdieaee (Hear h^ar.) Ihy:;rinuchofthsformer,butnotasin^lewllable oJ the latter. Wfasn w^idering over the undulating stupes beyond the Clutha, hi what I may call my uztive wilds, I have often endeavored to 'ascertain lh» jjohtical position of the- Maori. You are all acquainted with a certain curiously formed native bird, the Apteria, v/hich l i as been furnished with only the rudiments of winga. He appears to hnve taken to hi- h-g-i while under the process of manufailure before ins wiugs w^re completed. The Maori appears to be .4imiar»v siiuat-U. The treaty of Waitanjji converted liiai into a liritish subject, eut;t'ed to al! the riflr-s •and privileges, but he seems to have fretted un.lerthe Muioui operation, ior up to the present hour the process is incomplete—he took to his heels before Ids wings were mushed. (Laughter.) Difficulties uavjng arisen irom iiw anomalous position we are cow endeavoring to complete what was loit uuauL-.bed, and it is the design of the operators to p'.aae the Maori in a position to d-svelope his latent p-owers. Sir, there was a famous pnuosopher, whose uarne and theories must be well known to many in this House, who advocated the »xs«ii>uity of the most marvellous transformations i^ri MoatbaJJo asserted that man was bat a monkey who ha-1 worn his tail off by a habit of sfttino- on eh-tirs. (Laughter.) This theor. has been revived in ths present day, and it has been seriously asserted by no mean authority, that there is a natural tendency to adapt oars-jlvtsta the circumstances in which we are plao^-J. So that for instance, a hen tethered ia tbj ocean, if the experiment could be c>ntinueJl long enough, would become web-footed indeed, converted iuU a daek. (Much lau^ht^r ) Dj not suppose 1 am a disciple of this school :1 have I more .than serious doubts if such a transformation j v pas,i«e. (Laughter.) Bat if we desire to convert oar ieilow Marries into real British subjects we must plasa them in positions likely to induce'the devdopmeat of their powers; while we confer favours and tessa them t-i command, we must punish, liie rebellious and- teach them to obey, otherwise their eJueatioa will be miserably defective and tins, Sir, recalls to my reeolleerioa "the terras of the resolutions which I have submitted for the con-stder-iUun ot the House. The state of our fellow countrymea at Taranaki has excited the man lively sympathy trooi one end of the colony to tha other He have learned to appreciate their"gallantry in the hahl and the enduring patience with which they have bxt&eu for a termination to their sufferings- ia depeu-iently of this it has been a matter of deep'concera that a porinn of British territory, osvned by ilntxsh subject', and occupied under aguarautee from the crown, is reasly ia po#kajioti of native rebels The home-steads of our countrymen have been burnt— their property plundered, and their live stock openly depastarei without molestation by the insurrectionist*. One is almost forced to ury "Is the British ana shortened that it cannot strike?" When I recall the uobh words of His Grace of Xewcastl? I msnnetivesy reply,it b impassible. In very ju«ti"eth« b:ow should not b* averted, and considerations of policy, also deiuan-i that rebellion should beparalr^e-i History will furnish abundant evidence of the {ruth of thu asserlio:i-my own military experience Kimnte me of one or two. ft mw be rc'iueuioerel taat some years since, a Itus^o phobia ssiz-rf the JJritisa Ministrj-, and the swaitny lulvaace of the Muscovite towards kinya and Bokmra. lei to a masnifi-jent invasion of Aji^uaasstau, under Sir John Keaue. Thp march of the troops vr.l3 a triumphal advance -Candahar was evacuate—Uiiuznee stormed, aad the British ensi"-n duated over thecka M of OaubuL Then came reuue-«°H--°t .;ke lorcof ? dilf!«. slumber, and Bntiaii In ha was started from Its sacuritv by the iniormatiott that their chiefs were prisoners, and the bon&j of a wnole army were bleaclun- on tha defiles oi the aooiu Cauoul passes. The r&ietion on the native mind of sueii a catastrophe was dreaded • an army of retribution iiameiiately advanced", and mfcinroverthe reuuins of their comrades, replaared the Bntish flag on the wails of Caubul, and ike the uioantam- fortress of Istaliff a heap of ashes Th« SU4 -w *t that ia, the honr of need- wkea th* Jhe JJntish troops almost recoiled from the impetuous assault ot the a-iay of the "Lion of the Punjaub ' sparely a -single Anglian appeared in the rtmks It the enemy, or harassed our flank, where serious mischief might have beea done. The lesson taught wig not easily forgotteu. Sir, I fear to tire this Ho U *e by these illustrations. ("Goou; goon.") I xnti. venture upon one more instance. It einnofc have esearv>i the recollection of uuy who hear ms that, ia twY eaiu-. iwi2ns tpumt the armies of thePunjiub. then«tt!e ot the Bntish soMior was sorely put to trial Lord I Hardline considered that the fate of British ludH ! ? u"f b? * tar&p; °%tte 21st of December, a- the but c ot I;eroz»lia!i. \ ictory hovered over, and settled ou the Bntisu standard; and after fourpitehrf battles tlw Punjaab Whs at our post. Tiiere came an interval of peace, reduction of the forces, and open insurrection, with tiio bloody c!ieck of Ciiilli.iw.illah, and ihfi tnm:iphaat vielorv niGuzerat Tii- rebels were ciastised, but justice and mercy wont hand in "hand ami what was tha result I 1 neod not tell you of that sad pavro in our history of British India, far the voice o: lamentation and woj was heard iv every home in • vi- native land, and the mutiny of the Sepoy is" in scribed in letters of blood. The triumph of treachery a»id c.-jJd. bloo ly villainy was but short-lived. The •iJiliaut llnvelock hastened to the rescue, and plucking laurels as. he went, aud dealing death at every sup, he hurled the miscreants from the scene of the^ tinfcoly triumphs, and re-established the prowess of the Bntosh name before the promised succor could arrive from hngiand.. Iv that hour oi' trial all our efforts-would have been of no avsUl, had not the Punjaub sent its Sikh auxiliaries to aid usiuin! ttwtmjf chastisement Eut why have I adduced these i^istmtions -it ,3 ,„ tlie humble hope that w/nSy learn the iact that the punishment of the rebel is aj act of mercy, tar, very far, is it from mv wish that anything uiconsisteat with British clemency shoafd &H^ CCh' our European hreth^ X l°y^ Maories^ye, even justice to tha Snvil ,m S t hand should not be stajed until submission is tendered and accepted. withir?" ? Ot any-explanation"ineonsfetent with present or prospective military considerations i oniy desire an authoritative assuranes that the hour of laranafa's suißsriojr has en«ied. that the stain on tue British Crown is about to be effaced that tho rebel is no longer triumphaut, ami that the country is about to be opened up by roads. If this assurance can b3 given, m an authoritative form, I then, sir, shall truly rejuice, aad I shall be enabled to believe! as regards our fellow countrymen, with whom hope lias almost died, that the day star has appeared in the east—that already the beams of the rising sun are tinging the horizon -that the clouds which hung ia lowering asi«ct are being dissipated, and the lons looked for hour of deliverance has indeed come at last, with healing in its wings, . The Hon. tIieC.OLONIAL TRE.\SURERobserved m reply that it was very uuusual to put such important questions without due notice; but the Speaker ruled that it was at his option to reply or not; as he* might think fit—either at the present moment, at any future time, or not at all. - ■